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Old 27th October 2017, 05:02 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No. We can be bit caaual here. Frankly, that was for some good. I
That also is patronizing. Many posts on many threads and still your ability to engage in constructive discourse is practically nonexistent.
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Old 27th October 2017, 05:28 AM   #322
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I'd volunteer to translate his posts for the other members here, making charitable assumptions about what he probably means.

But even someone who wants to avoid his real work doesn't have that much time.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:37 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
That also is patronizing. Many posts on many threads and still your ability to engage in constructive discourse is practically nonexistent.
NO. NO. Just rhetoric discussions.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:40 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
And you wonder why we can't understand most of your posts?
I understand it very well. It is not just a language issue but preception, rhetoric and dynamic angles are also responsible.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:46 PM   #325
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I think, this post which I previously posted elsewhere in this forum, also needed here"

" Even true, MPOVs can be there in anything which is not yet A&F. E.g. To a Alphonso mango tree, you are still right to call it a green tree, a big tree, a shady tree, a fruit tree, a mango tree, with mistaken vision or in dim light--a small mountain, a ghost, in selfish interest--an Asoka tree etc. Unless you say it an alphanso tree, nothing can be clear in A&F. You can not draw its figure unless Alphonso tree is told. This way, MPOvs or non-absolutism, partial truth, conditional prediction and selfishness work. "Half (non A&F)truth is often a great lie".
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:51 PM   #326
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To all,

I now feel, it also need to be discussed to conclude this thread:

What is the nature of nature(esp of basic nature)? Is it just harsh, cruel, destructing or odd to its inhabitant beings?

Actually, it was indicated elsewhere, I want to check it here also.
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Old 27th October 2017, 10:41 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
To all,

I now feel, it also need to be discussed to conclude this thread:

What is the nature of nature(esp of basic nature)? Is it just harsh, cruel, destructing or odd to its inhabitant beings?

It just is.
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Old 27th October 2017, 10:53 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
To What is the nature of nature(esp of basic nature)? Is it just harsh, cruel, destructing or odd to its inhabitant beings?
Only conscious entities can be any of those things.

Nature is not a conscious entity.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:17 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Only conscious entities can be any of those things.

Nature is not a conscious entity.

Kumar has inadvertently pinpointed the actual basis of religion: anthropomorphism of natural phenomena.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:23 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
It just is.
I feel it is one sided approach but still:

If anyone or any entity follow nature's rules and if he just harsh, cruel, destructing(violent) or odd, that shall still be natural and valid in nature's sense.?
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:25 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Only conscious entities can be any of those things.

Nature is not a conscious entity.
All conscious and unconscious entities or things are part of nature.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:30 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
All conscious and unconscious entities or things are part of nature.
Indeed, but until conscious entities like ourselves evolved there was no part of nature to which adjectives like 'cruel' could be applied.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:43 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Indeed, but until conscious entities like ourselves evolved there was no part of nature to which adjectives like 'cruel' could be applied.
Please tell me more about it. Does it mean conscious entities like ourselves had only introduced cruelty?
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:46 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Please tell me more about it. Does it mean conscious entities like ourselves had only introduced cruelty?
Only conscious entities can be cruel. So until conscious entities evolved, the concept of cruelty did not exist.

Note that the same is true for the concepts of love and compassion.
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:03 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Only conscious entities can be cruel. So until conscious entities evolved, the concept of cruelty did not exist.

Note that the same is true for the concepts of love and compassion.
What was there in nature prior to evolution of conscious entities?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:07 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
What was there in nature prior to evolution of conscious entities?
Unconscious entities.
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:12 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Unconscious entities.
Can you name few Unconscious beings?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:13 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Can you name few Unconscious beings?
Stars. Planets. Fish. Plants. Storms. Volcanos.
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:15 AM   #339
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Most people lying in the gutter outside a pub on a Friday night.
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:17 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Stars. Planets. Fish. Plants. Storms. Volcanos.
Then, was Live & let live concept prevailing?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:19 AM   #341
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Kumar, nothing without self awareness (most humans basically, some are a bit thick) and language can have any concept of cruelty. Or any other emotion. Animals might be appear cruel or kind, or lazy, but they don't have the ability to label themselves.
They just do what animals do. A slug doesn't understand it's eating the lettuce you carefully planted and tendered. They just eat.
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:20 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Then, was Live & let live concept prevailing?
Unconscious and inanimate objects don't do concepts. Why can't you understand that?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:26 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Unconscious and inanimate objects don't do concepts. Why can't you understand that?
Ok but why it can't also happen naturally?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:28 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Kumar, nothing without self awareness (most humans basically, some are a bit thick) and language can have any concept of cruelty. Or any other emotion. Animals might be appear cruel or kind, or lazy, but they don't have the ability to label themselves.
They just do what animals do. A slug doesn't understand it's eating the lettuce you carefully planted and tendered. They just eat.
It is natural entitlement to different species. How humans independent of nature are involved in it?
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Old 28th October 2017, 01:54 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Then, was Live & let live concept prevailing?
No concepts were prevailing. There was no concept of concepts.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:00 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is natural entitlement to different species. How humans independent of nature are involved in it?
Humans are not independent of nature. We have evolved self awareness, and are able to think conceptually, some of us anyway.

Or to put it another way, big brain.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:01 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
No concepts were prevailing. There was no concept of concepts.
I think, live & let live concept prevail in plants.

You told cruelty is an attribute of conscious entities and fish is an Unconscious being. But still bigger fish eat smaller fishes. ?
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:07 AM   #348
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You would be wrong, and fish aren't cruel. They eat to stay alive.

This is getting boring. Do try harder Kumar. I'm sure you are brighter than a fish.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:08 AM   #349
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Google Venus Fly Trap.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:16 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I think, live & let live concept prevail in plants.
You think wrongly.

Quote:
You told cruelty is an attribute of conscious entities and fish is an Unconscious being. But still bigger fish eat smaller fishes. ?
We might consider that cruel, because we understand the concept of cruelty. Fish do not, because they don't.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:38 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is natural entitlement to different species. How humans independent of nature are involved in it?

Humans are not independent of nature. Humans, and everything they do, are part of nature.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:05 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
You think wrongly.


We might consider that cruel, because we understand the concept of cruelty. Fish do not, because they don't.
Then what prevail in plants?

If we shall take it like it, cruelty will have no validity. Live & let live also suggest let live subject to live. For live, bigger fish can eat smaller fish and so the other species--conscious or non-conscious.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:06 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Humans are not independent of nature. Humans, and everything they do, are part of nature.
Yes true.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:09 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Then what prevail in plants?
Smaller parts of plants.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:12 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Smaller parts of plants.
Right. Bigger part of plants maintain its smaller parts. So live & let live justified.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:16 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Then what prevail in plants?
Natural selection.

Quote:
If we shall take it like it, cruelty will have no validity. Live & let live also suggest let live subject to live. For live, bigger fish can eat smaller fish and so the other species--conscious or non-conscious.
I can't make any sense of this.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:17 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Right. Bigger part of plants maintain its smaller parts. So live & let live justified.
Bigger is bigger.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:20 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Natural selection.


I can't make any sense of this.
It is there in every being not only in plants. However, I feel natural selection and survival of fittest, may have some different triggers.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:27 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is there in every being not only in plants. However, I feel natural selection and survival of fittest, may have some different triggers.
The only trigger for natural selection is whether the changes that naturally occur increase or decrease the organism's chances of surviving long enough to reproduce in the current environment.
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Old 28th October 2017, 03:45 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is there in every being not only in plants. However, I feel natural selection and survival of fittest, may have some different triggers.
Big worms chomp ripe ovaries yum. No plant baby bum!
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