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Old 24th October 2017, 08:32 AM   #1
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A Humbling Journey: Theism to Atheism...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6HjAGyim4
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Old 24th October 2017, 08:39 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
3 hour long you tube video....
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Old 24th October 2017, 08:50 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
3 hour long you tube video....
Yeah, it's long. Here's an except that pretty much covers the gist of the documentary (9:10)...


"Dear Believer"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIErAz-ZO-I
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Old 24th October 2017, 08:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
Yeah, it's long. Here's an except that pretty much covers the gist of the documentary (9:10)...


"Dear Believer"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIErAz-ZO-I
Wait, why are we watching what appears to be a series of stock film clips strung together with a voice over?

I ain't got time for proselytizing
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:00 AM   #5
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YT;DW.
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
And your commentary is....
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:46 AM   #7
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I had to skip through even the 9 minute short version. It's lightweight stuff, and full of repetition.
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Old 24th October 2017, 10:23 AM   #8
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I recommend "Letting Go Of God" by Julia Sweeney:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Both funny and touching.
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Old 24th October 2017, 11:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I recommend "Letting Go Of God" by Julia Sweeney:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Both funny and touching.
That's actually a favourite of mine. I watch it every Christmas...
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Old 24th October 2017, 11:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
And your commentary is....

I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a Theist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have Theism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it...
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Old 24th October 2017, 12:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a Theist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have Theism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it...
I'm sure there are people who just got done watching Joel Osteen videos and are thinking "I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a ATheist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have ATheism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it..."

I watched a few minutes and skipped around. Is there any part of that 3 hour sermon that isn't just stock film clips?
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Old 24th October 2017, 12:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a Theist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have Theism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it...
It exists as a byproduct of gaps in knowledge.
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Old 24th October 2017, 12:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
It exists as a byproduct of gaps in knowledge.
There is another YouTube video with Dr. Andy Thompson covering the issue of "why we believe".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

He attributes religious belief to "cognitive mechanisms" that we've developed through our evolution. I still have a hard time understanding how these mechanisms can override simple logic...
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Old 24th October 2017, 01:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
There is another YouTube video with Dr. Andy Thompson covering the issue of "why we believe".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

He attributes religious belief to "cognitive mechanisms" that we've developed through our evolution. I still have a hard time understanding how these mechanisms can override simple logic...

Well I quite liked the second video you linked Autolite in spite of the yapping of another here. The one you linked here looks to have promise also and I will watch soon.

The oh so obvious truth that ones religion results from ones geographic location, just cannot get past the blockers in the believers mind. Dawkins draws attention to this often also.
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Old 24th October 2017, 02:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I watched a few minutes and skipped around. Is there any part of that 3 hour sermon that isn't just stock film clips?
The whole documentary follows pretty much the same format. If the first ten minutes doesn't pique your interest then it's likely nothing else in the video will.

I thought from the beginning that it was going to be a somewhat bland documentary but I just stuck it out. There are tidbits that made it worth the watch, at least for me anyway.

Before watching this this video, I really didn't appreciate how infinitesimally small our planet is in compassion to the entire universe. The video also underscores how insignificant the human race is to the entirety of 'creation'. It is indeed humbling and further illustrates the profound absurdity of the notion that there was a divine creator...
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Old 24th October 2017, 02:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I'm sure there are people who just got done watching Joel Osteen videos and are thinking "I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a ATheist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have ATheism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it..."
I had a quick squiz at some of his videos. Can you perhaps link to one that you feel is particularly persuasive about the existence of God?
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Old 24th October 2017, 02:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I thought from the beginning that it was going to be a somewhat bland documentary but I just stuck it out. There are tidbits that made it worth the watch, at least for me anyway.
Now there's a ringing endorsement of a three-hour video if ever there was one.
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Old 24th October 2017, 02:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I had a quick squiz at some of his videos. Can you perhaps link to one that you feel is particularly persuasive about the existence of God?
Not a 100% sure you are cottoning to my actual point.
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Old 24th October 2017, 02:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Not a 100% sure you are cottoning to my actual point.

Squeegee is not alone in that case, it eludes me also.

Is the clue in the spelling of atheist with a capital A and capital T?

Just keep it simple for our simple atheist minds. We do not have access to divine revelation.
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Old 24th October 2017, 04:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Now there's a ringing endorsement of a three-hour video if ever there was one.
In any case there were some snippets from 'Religulous' and 'Jesus Camp'. Both documentaries are definitely worth checking out if you can still find them. At one time they were both available on YouTube as 'full-movie' videos. I'm not sure though if they still are...
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Old 25th October 2017, 02:29 AM   #21
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Big old boring preachy clip show cobbled together from anything tangentially related to atheism the editor could find. This is not going to convince anyone before it bores them to sleep.
If this is the best we've got, I might have to start believing in god
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Old 25th October 2017, 03:06 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Big old boring preachy clip show cobbled together from anything tangentially related to atheism the editor could find. This is not going to convince anyone before it bores them to sleep.
Well I doubt that the documentary will win any awards but I got something from it. I actually watched it twice. I could really relate to the 'Amanda' segment where the girl spoke about being raised a Christian but never really "bought-it".

I was raised and experienced the same. As a kid I had often felt that there was something totally bogus about religion but I just kept it to myself. I think that it was hearing the Noah's Ark story in Sunday school that planted the Atheism seed in me. I just couldn't quite figure out how full grown adults actually believed something so ridiculous.

But as a kid, I just kept my mouth shut about how I really felt. I didn't even know that anyone was 'allowed' to disbelieve and I really didn't see any point in pissing off my meal ticket.

Reference convincing anyone about Atheism, I've pretty much given up on trying to do that. How do you convince someone of the obvious???
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Old 25th October 2017, 03:23 AM   #23
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yt;dw. If you've seen this thing twice, would you mind summarizing the most salient points?

Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a Theist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have Theism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it...
Because people would rather feel right than be right.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
yt;dw. If you've seen this thing twice, would you mind summarizing the most salient points?
As I've already mentioned, I enjoyed the 'Dear Believer' and the 'Amanda' segments. The 'Dear Believer' underscores the fact that your religious beliefs are indeed tied directly to where you were born and what religion your parents had. I don't know how Theists can just ignore this rather obvious fact.

The 'Amanda' part I could really relate to. She talks about never really buying into Christianity as a teenager and just 'faking-it' so as to not rock the boat. I was the same way growing up. It is the first time that I've ever heard anyone else describing my own experience.

I also liked the animated segment with a young God explaining how He intends to reveal Himself to man. I thought that the absurdity of the whole idea was underscored. A supposedly omnipresent God expects to be universally loved and worshiped by revealing himself only to a select few of his human creations living in only one small part of the entire world? I thought that it was so ridiculous that it was funny! That was actually a clip from the 'DarkMatter 2525' series IIRC...

https://www.youtube.com/user/DarkMatter2525
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I still have a hard time understanding how these mechanisms can override simple logic...
Why? Emotion trumps logic all the time. In fact, logic is subservient to emotion. Every decision you make is, ultimately, rooted in feeling. Religious belief is just a system that allows us to make sense of things that hurt or confuse us and allow us to go on with our lives. No surprise that so many people have them, even though there are alternatives.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
As I've already mentioned, I enjoyed the 'Dear Believer' and the 'Amanda' segments. The 'Dear Believer' underscores the fact that your religious beliefs are indeed tied directly to where you were born and what religion your parents had. I don't know how Theists can just ignore this rather obvious fact.
Simple: it's convenient to them. They know. They just prefer to stick with their belief rather than risk the uncertainty.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
In any case there were some snippets from 'Religulous' and 'Jesus Camp'. Both documentaries are definitely worth checking out if you can still find them. At one time they were both available on YouTube as 'full-movie' videos. I'm not sure though if they still are...
Jesus Camp was good. Religulous was dreadful.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
There is another YouTube video with Dr. Andy Thompson covering the issue of "why we believe".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

He attributes religious belief to "cognitive mechanisms" that we've developed through our evolution. I still have a hard time understanding how these mechanisms can override simple logic...
Human beings are not logical creatures. Logic and reason are relatively recent developments, still not firmly implanted.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Human beings are not logical creatures. Logic and reason are relatively recent developments, still not firmly implanted.
Relatively recent as in only fifty thousand years old.
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:26 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I'm sure there are people who just got done watching Joel Osteen videos and are thinking "I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a ATheist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have ATheism. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it..."

I watched a few minutes and skipped around. Is there any part of that 3 hour sermon that isn't just stock film clips?
I haven't watched the video but I can't help agreeing with you. Preaching to the choir is pretty easy business.
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:32 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why? Emotion trumps logic all the time. In fact, logic is subservient to emotion.
Yes, I realize that religious belief is emotion driven. I know that emotion often overrides rationality and logic. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm having a hard time putting myself into that type of mindset.

I mean as a kid I believed in all sorts of nonsense but I grew out of it as my mind developed. Why doesn't this happen with the majority of people???
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:40 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Jesus Camp was good. Religulous was dreadful.
'Jesus Camp' was very good and somewhat unsettling. What didn't you like about 'Religulous'? I thought that Religulous was really great. And funny too! Maher didn't just mock the believers. He more often than not just gave them enough rope for them to mock themselves. Priceless....
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I'm sure there are people who just got done watching Joel Osteen videos and are thinking "I watched it thinking that someone else might forward the link on to a ATheist that they know. After watching it, I have a hard time understanding why we still have ATheism.
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I haven't watched the video but I can't help agreeing with you. Preaching to the choir is pretty easy business.
I think The Big Dog might be implying that Theism and Atheism are equally valid...
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:51 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Relatively recent as in only fifty thousand years old.
The Dr. Andy Thompson video linked to earlier gives us his take on how the human mind, through evolution, developed mechanisms that facilitate religious beliefs...
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
What didn't you like about 'Religulous'?
It was shallow, unfunny, smug, preaching-to-the-choir pap, and was full of poor and straw arguments. It's like he read The God Delusion and thought "I bet I could make an even worse case for the non-existence of God, if I tried".
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
Yes, I realize that religious belief is emotion driven. I know that emotion often overrides rationality and logic. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm having a hard time putting myself into that type of mindset.
I have no trouble understanding it. Even now, 25+ years after I became an atheist, my brain is still trying to find ways out of mortality.
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:38 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
I think The Big Dog might be implying that Theism and Atheism are equally valid...
I took it as "Followers always think their preachers are persuasive." Validity has nothing to do with it. Even relative persuasiveness is not really the point.
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:54 AM   #38
Autolite
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It was shallow, unfunny, smug, preaching-to-the-choir pap, and was full of poor and straw arguments. It's like he read The God Delusion and thought "I bet I could make an even worse case for the non-existence of God, if I tried".
I thought it was quite funny but humour is of course subject to individual taste. Perhaps a bit shallow(and smug), but Bill Maher is a comedian so "shallow and smug" might only be expected. I find that even Dawkins or Carrier can be somewhat witty and funny sometimes although maybe unintentionally.

If I want something more serious I'll watch a Hitchens video.

I agree that Maher was "preaching to the choir" but isn't that what we're really doing here on a skeptics' forum? I haven't seen an argument yet that will turn a true believer around. IMO the best case scenario is that we might be able to convince someone who's sitting on the fence to just open their eyes and acknowledge reality. I think that was likely the goal of Religulous...
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Old 25th October 2017, 09:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Jesus Camp was good. Religulous was dreadful.
Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
'Jesus Camp' was very good and somewhat unsettling. What didn't you like about 'Religulous'? I thought that Religulous was really great. And funny too! Maher didn't just mock the believers. He more often than not just gave them enough rope for them to mock themselves. Priceless....
I agree. Religulous was overall very funny. It had moments that bored me. But overall, it shined a big light on the ridiculousness of religion and enough funny moments to make it worthwhile.
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Old 25th October 2017, 10:13 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I have no trouble understanding it. Even now, 25+ years after I became an atheist, my brain is still trying to find ways out of mortality.
Myself, I have no problem with my mortality. I have long ago realized something that was pointed out in the video from the OP. Spending an 'eternity' anywhere would be absolutely maddening.

Imagine every twitch, blink, fart or burp being repeated an infinite number of times. Everything that could ever possibly happen will happen over and over again repeatedly for an eternity.

I used to imagine 'Heaven' or paradise as spending an eternity with Jennifer Aniston. Even Brad Pitt couldn't deal with that after only a couple of years.

I think that people who find the notion of existing for an eternity appealing haven't really thought about what it really means..
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