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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 30th October 2017, 05:17 AM   #121
NoahFence
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Manafort associate with his own ties to Russian oligarchs
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:26 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I have a bet with my cousin.
I have $5 on Manafort
He has $5 on Don Jr.

And, imagine if it is Don Jr. Just imagine what Don Sr. will do. Imagine the twitter tirades. That will be quite the something.
I'm $5 richer.
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:26 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Manafort associate with his own ties to Russian oligarchs
But Manafort was barely involved in my campaign. Manafort who? I don't even know this guy. Fake News!
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:28 AM   #124
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Nothingburger!
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:45 AM   #125
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No twitter tirade yet.
I am confused.
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:46 AM   #126
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Manafort?

FusionGPS...Obama...DNC..Hillary...uranium 1.. Benghazi!!!!!

Fox and Trump are trying very much to distract from the Mueller investigation.
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:49 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Who's Rick Gates? What'd I miss?
Manafort's business partner / protege
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:53 AM   #128
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The first two dominos fall, how long till we see Michael Flynn doing the perp walk I wonder.
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Old 30th October 2017, 05:59 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Manafort?

FusionGPS...Obama...DNC..Hillary...uranium 1.. Benghazi!!!!!

Fox and Trump are trying very much to distract from the Mueller investigation.
How long will it take for Alex Jones To turn on Trymp and say he knew this all along?
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:01 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
No twitter tirade yet.
I am confused.
Is he up this early?
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:01 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
How long will it take for Alex Jones To turn on Trymp and say he knew this all along?
Only if his ratings drop.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:04 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Is he up this early?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...63492645437441

That was at 4:30 am.
It might nap time at the Day Care center..or maybe circle time.

Perhaps he is mapping out his tirade, "I can only do 240 characters! SAD!"
"The bigly deep state consipracy" how many is that so far? 27, "who chooses to ignore the horrible clintons..."
Okay, there's tweet #1.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:04 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Manafort?

FusionGPS...Obama...DNC..Hillary...uranium 1.. Benghazi!!!!!

Fox and Trump are trying very much to distract from the Mueller investigation.
I've said it all along - they can distract us all they want. They're NOT distracting Meuller. And that's all that matters.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:21 AM   #134
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Who do you think will sing First, and the loudest?
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:24 AM   #135
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I wonder if Trump would be in favour of "enhanced interrogation techniques" to make Manafort talk.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:25 AM   #136
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https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ctment-OCR.pdf

Statutory Allegations
COUNT ONE
(Conspiracy Against The United States)

COUNT TWO
(Conspiracy To Launder Money)

COUNTS THREE THROUGH SIX
(Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial
Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2014)

COUNTS SEVEN THROUGH NINE
(Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial

COUNT TEN
(Unregistered Agent Of A Foreign Principal)

COUNT ELEVEN
(False and Misleading FARA Statements)

COUNT TWELVE
(False Statements)
Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2013)
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:27 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I've said it all along - they can distract us all they want. They're NOT distracting Meuller. And that's all that matters.
That's pretty much it.

We're still pretty much in the bluff and bluster stage of things where there's plenty of posturing for the press. With these indictments, we might be getting toward something substantive, although the speculation from the radio talkers this morning was that these indictments deal with issues not related to the Trump campaign, and that they are a way of putting pressure on Manafort to spill the beans about stuff that is really important, assuming there are beans to spill.


One way or another, I think we can trust Mueller to follow the trail and do the right thing. If he comes up with something substantive against Trump, we'll know it, and no amount of tweeting will change that.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:29 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ctment-OCR.pdf

Statutory Allegations
COUNT ONE
(Conspiracy Against The United States)

COUNT TWO
(Conspiracy To Launder Money)

COUNTS THREE THROUGH SIX
(Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial
Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2014)

COUNTS SEVEN THROUGH NINE
(Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial

COUNT TEN
(Unregistered Agent Of A Foreign Principal)

COUNT ELEVEN
(False and Misleading FARA Statements)

COUNT TWELVE
(False Statements)
Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2013)
That's bigly!
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:32 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
That's bigly!
Meh, the spin will be that it has nothing to do with Russian collusion, so it's not big deal. This is a process, with a long ways to go ...
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:33 AM   #140
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So will Trump hang Manafort out to dry or will he come to his defense?
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:34 AM   #141
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LOL. It's the Ukraine thing.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:37 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
LOL. It's the Ukraine thing.
Looks like your boyfriend in the Kremlin isn't getting his money back.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:37 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Meh, the spin will be that it has nothing to do with Russian collusion, so it's not big deal. This is a process, with a long ways to go ...
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:39 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post

See what? Did you read at least the first page of the document linked by C_Felix? The conspiracy is money laundering with their old buddies from Ukraine. A lot has been written about that in publications you don't even know about. Nuttin to do with Trump, or (in essence) Russia. But one degree to Killary.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:42 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
See what? Did you read at least the first page of the document linked by C_Felix? The conspiracy is money laundering with their old buddies from Ukraine. A lot has been written about that in publications you don't even know about. Nuttin to do with Trump, or (in essence) Russia. But one degree to Killary.


You sure don't disappoint.

What about that there 1st count? That's not a Ukraine thing. That's a US thing.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:43 AM   #146
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So, how long until the pardon?

I suppose it stands between Trump's worry that Manafort might cut a deal with the prosecutor for info about the Trumpettes and him worrying about pardoning Manafort removes his ability to use the fifth amendment.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:47 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
See what? Did you read at least the first page of the document linked by C_Felix? The conspiracy is money laundering with their old buddies from Ukraine. A lot has been written about that in publications you don't even know about. Nuttin to do with Trump, or (in essence) Russia. But one degree to Killary.
You forgot to mention Podesta and pizzagate ...
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:48 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ctment-OCR.pdf

Statutory Allegations
COUNT ONE
(Conspiracy Against The United States)
Wow, that is not a small charge.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:50 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
See what? Did you read at least the first page of the document linked by C_Felix? The conspiracy is money laundering with their old buddies from Ukraine. A lot has been written about that in publications you don't even know about. Nuttin to do with Trump, or (in essence) Russia. But one degree to Killary.
Working for a party backed by Russian oligarchs is having something to do with Russia.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:53 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
You forgot to mention Podesta and pizzagate ...

How witty. You'll be in for a couple of more surprises as long as you receive your programming from complicit sources, buddy. Fun to watch, though.
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Old 30th October 2017, 06:55 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
How witty. You'll be in for a couple of more surprises as long as you receive your programming from complicit sources, buddy. Fun to watch, though.

I can't fathom the point you're trying to make.

What surprises have I already had ? What surprises am I still in for ?

When do you expect Clinton to be impeached ?
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:01 AM   #152
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I am completely clueless about the US legal system.

If there are now criminal charges, is Trump allowed to say anything by way of support, or would that be considered to be interfering in a criminal case?
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:03 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
See what? Did you read at least the first page of the document linked by C_Felix? The conspiracy is money laundering with their old buddies from Ukraine. A lot has been written about that in publications you don't even know about. Nuttin to do with Trump, or (in essence) Russia. But one degree to Killary.
One degree to Trump, as well, unless you want to claim now that Manafort had nothing to do with Trump's campaign.
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:04 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
I am completely clueless about the US legal system.

If there are now criminal charges, is Trump allowed to say anything by way of support, or would that be considered to be interfering in a criminal case?
It wouldn't be considered criminal interference just by shooting off his mouth about it.
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:08 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
I am completely clueless about the US legal system.

If there are now criminal charges, is Trump allowed to say anything by way of support, or would that be considered to be interfering in a criminal case?
When has that ever stopped the Trump Administration ?

I expect a full Twitter storm, more outrageous allegations against Hillary, Comey, Mueller and so on, some kind of ramping up against North Korea and picking some kind of nonsensical fight with another group of people to create a smokescreen.

I also expect calls from The President for the power of the press and FBI to be curtailed and for the courts to be subservient to the Executive - claims which will then be spun differently by his lackeys like Kelly and Sessions.
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:10 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Wow, that is not a small charge.
It kind of is. If I read it correctly, it is basically "conspiracy to commit a federal crime". I'll add the obligatory IANAL in this case, but that's what it looks like to me.


I've skimmed the indictment. Here's what it appears to me. Manafort and Gates were paid lobbyists of the Ukranian government for a long time, before Manafort became Trump's campaign manager, but they didn't pay taxes on all the money that they were paid by the Ukranians.

It appears this has nothing to do with Trump at all. As the radio-speakers I heard this morning were saying, it is a means to put the squeeze on him and spill the beans on anything that he knows about Trump or the Trump campaign.

ETA: I should add that these don't look like some sort of trumped up charges (no pun intended). It looks like these guys were involved in some serious and very deliberate tax evasion. It's just that their prior criminality is not directly a Trump thing. However, it gives the prosecutors leverage. Cooperate with the bigger investigation in exchange for some leniency on the foreign lobbying/tax evasion charges.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 30th October 2017 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:12 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It appears this has nothing to do with Trump at all.
Not the indictment, sure. But Manafort's one degree away from Trump and the Russia scandal, so it's related to the topic.

Re the conspiracy against the US charge, would you get that no matter what federal crime you conspired to commit?
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:14 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
How witty. You'll be in for a couple of more surprises as long as you receive your programming from complicit sources, buddy. Fun to watch, though.
From another article on your fantastic link:
Quote:
In an apparent direct attack on free speech, social media giant Facebook has, without warning, banned the highly viewed alternative news website Infowars.com from broadcasting live video on their platform.

This despite the fact that Infowars and Alex Jones regularly draw millions of viewers per month to their Facebook video content as well as “substantial” advertising revenue spent with the company over the years.
Oh, horror! Vlad's white kool-aid buddies in danger!
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:17 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not the indictment, sure. But Manafort's one degree away from Trump and the Russia scandal, so it's related to the topic.

Re the conspiracy against the US charge, would you get that no matter what federal crime you conspired to commit?
IANAL, but my understanding is that conspiracy charge would apply if you conspired with another person to defraud the federal government in anyway.
E.g. it could be as minor as you and a friend planning to underpay your taxes.

Quick googling got me this:
https://lawnewz.com/legal-analysis/p...er-than-it-is/
Quote:
Conspiracy Against the United States sounds an awful lot like something treasonous, but in fact it’s far from it. All it takes, according to the statute, is two people working together to:

commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy….

Basically, if you and a buddy try to pull a fast one on any part of the government, that’s conspiracy against the U.S. Manafort and his associate Rick Gates are accused of lying to the U.S. Attorney General’s office in a document that was filed under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. The statements related to political work for Ukraine.

I have not vetted this source. It appeared in my google search.



Edit:
Here is the actual law
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371
Quote:
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.
At first glance, this does not seem to be anything in the realm of treason by a long shot, despite the name.

If someone with actual legal knowledge chimes in, I will be happy to defer to them.
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Last edited by beren; 30th October 2017 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:17 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not the indictment, sure. But Manafort's one degree away from Trump and the Russia scandal, so it's related to the topic.

Re the conspiracy against the US charge, would you get that no matter what federal crime you conspired to commit?
IANAL, but I think so, if it in any way related to a government function. In this case, if I read it correctly, they interfered with the Department of Justice by lying to them during an investigation, and they interfered with the Department of the Treasury by not correctly reporting income.
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