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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 15th May 2018, 08:41 PM   #2841
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Manafort needs to thank him, it would still go forward somewhere else, at least this Judge is keeping his eye on the corrupt Mueller.
So Manafort's lawyers are stupid?
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:10 PM   #2842
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So Manafort's lawyers are stupid?
Maybe not, they're pursuing a strategy to maximize their billable hours. I'm not sure to what end beyond the enrichment of the lawyers. Manafort looks to be cooked. I wonder how his lawyer managed to get out the nonsense about his client wanting to prove his innocence with a straight face.

But suppose Manfafort had won this round. So he gets prosecuted by some other federal prosecutor who uses the same overwhelming evidence against him that Mueller has? Or Trump pardons him* and he faces state prosecutors? Mueller might be in much more of a mood to cut him a deal than the other prosecutors he would face in return for some juicy Trump bits. On the other hand I'm not completely sure Manafort has got any juicy Trump bits to cough up. If that's the case, Manafort might die an old man in prison.

* I doubt that Trump will pardon Manafort. Trump is doing everything he can to pretend that he might pardon the various folks associated with this case, but the political penalty for this would be huge for Trump and the Republican Party and it might exacerbate Trump's problems since the people he pardoned could be forced to testify against him since they no longer have the right to plead the firth amendment on the stuff they were pardoned for.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:04 PM   #2843
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A local prosecutor doesn't have the resources, focus and profile of the Mueller probe: they might settle for much less and without extra dirt on Trump.
No, Manafort would have been much better off if this motion had been granted.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:14 PM   #2844
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
A local prosecutor doesn't have the resources, focus and profile of the Mueller probe: they might settle for much less and without extra dirt on Trump.
No, Manafort would have been much better off if this motion had been granted.
I'm from the UK so don't pretend to understand all the USA legal stuff, but doesn't the quote above say "— but he has not ruled yet".

Does that mean he hasn't decided yet whether to grant the motion?
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:44 PM   #2845
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I'm from the UK so don't pretend to understand all the USA legal stuff, but doesn't the quote above say "— but he has not ruled yet".

Does that mean he hasn't decided yet whether to grant the motion?
I think there are two separate things....

The motion to dismiss the indictment has been ruled upon, and denied.

Motions to suppress evidence have yet to be ruled upon.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:53 PM   #2846
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:00 AM   #2847
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I'm from the UK so don't pretend to understand all the USA legal stuff, but doesn't the quote above say "— but he has not ruled yet".

Does that mean he hasn't decided yet whether to grant the motion?
[deleted because what I wrote wasn't quite right]
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:14 AM   #2848
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I'm from the UK so don't pretend to understand all the USA legal stuff, but doesn't the quote above say "— but he has not ruled yet".

Does that mean he hasn't decided yet whether to grant the motion?
There are two criminal cases against Manafort with two different judges in two different jurisdictions. It is unusual to have to separate cases brought against a defendant for similar crimes. The possible reason for this is that Manafort committed crimes in two different jurisdictions and hence charges needed to be filed in both jurisdictions.

The thing that confuses me a bit is that Manafort's lawyers attempted to block the prosecutions by filing a civil lawsuit and by appealing the indictments. The decision on the civil law suit was deferred until the issue was decided for the criminal case in Washington but that decision has also gone against Manafort. The judge in Washington has now decided against Manafort in the criminal case. The judge in Virginia has not published a decision.
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Old 16th May 2018, 01:29 AM   #2849
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
There are two criminal cases against Manafort with two different judges in two different jurisdictions. It is unusual to have to separate cases brought against a defendant for similar crimes. The possible reason for this is that Manafort committed crimes in two different jurisdictions and hence charges needed to be filed in both jurisdictions.

The thing that confuses me a bit is that Manafort's lawyers attempted to block the prosecutions by filing a civil lawsuit and by appealing the indictments. The decision on the civil law suit was deferred until the issue was decided for the criminal case in Washington but that decision has also gone against Manafort. The judge in Washington has now decided against Manafort in the criminal case. The judge in Virginia has not published a decision.
Is the judge a Trumper? Or just a Republican.
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:02 AM   #2850
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/996498080781537280

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In denying Manafort’s request to dismiss his DC case judge writes in her opinion “The Special Counsel would have been remiss to ignore such an obvious potential link between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.”
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:07 AM   #2851
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https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/996580983066554374

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NEW: A former Trump campaign official told Senate he thought he received email in 2016 alerting him Russians had damaging information about Clinton. But so far no one can find the email. Speaks to where collusion investigation stands today. w/@npfandos
Seth Abramson thread on what this means about what Papadpoulos has told Mueller
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:18 AM   #2852
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
Is the judge a Trumper? Or just a Republican.
Good question. It seems like he popped off with some irrelevant pro-Trump spin. It seems to be fairly routine in the US for prosecutors to go after underlings and cut deals if they turn on their bosses in crime so complaining that Mueller really wanted to get Trump is just complaining about what is normal behavior for a prosecutor unless the judge was arguing that the case against Manafort was thin and wouldn't have been brought if Mueller wasn't biased by his desire to get Trump.

If he was making that argument, IMO, he would be acting as a Trumper since the evidence against Manafort is very strong that he committed very serious crimes regardless of Mueller's motive for bringing the case. My guess is that in the end the judge will decide against Manafort so why the judge popped off will be moot. If he did decide for Manafort I think Mueller might be able to appeal the decision and I think the judge's decision would be overturned.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:13 AM   #2853
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
"The NYT is being quite silly in saying Mashburn's testimony can't be corroborated."

He takes an article from the NYT, slaps "breaking" on it, and then shows that Seth has not earthly clue what "corroborated" means in a news article.

The Poet is incompetent.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:04 AM   #2854
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"The NYT is being quite silly in saying Mashburn's testimony can't be corroborated."

He takes an article from the NYT, slaps "breaking" on it, and then shows that Seth has not earthly clue what "corroborated" means in a news article.

The Poet is incompetent.
Literally the next sentence: "Of course it can be: by George Papadopoulos, the man who sent Mashburn the email."
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:38 AM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Literally the next sentence: "Of course it can be: by George Papadopoulos, the man who sent Mashburn the email."
Were you under the impression that Papadopoulos was cooperating with the New York Times?
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:02 AM   #2856
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Were you under the impression that Papadopoulos was cooperating with the New York Times?
Are you under the impression the article says that the journalist who wrote it can't corroborate the existence of the email?
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:12 AM   #2857
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Are you under the impression the article says that the journalist who wrote it can't corroborate the existence of the email?
You did not answer my question. The answer to my question (and Seth's specious claim) that the New York Times was acting 'silly" because the email could be "corroborated" by Papadopoulos is: "Mr. Mashburn and Mr. Papadopoulos declined to comment."

The answer to your question is yes, neither the journalist, the New York Times, the:

Quote:
... investigators for the Senate Judiciary Committee have not found any such message. The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, was also searching for similar emails, according to a person familiar with a request for documents that his investigators sent to the Trump campaign. The campaign, which has examined its emails and other documents, also cannot find the message, and officials do not believe it exists.
and given that Papadopoulus is cooperating with Mueller, this further puts the lie to Seth's inane and consistently wrong speculation.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:20 AM   #2858
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You did not answer my question. The answer to my question (and Seth's specious claim) that the New York Times was acting 'silly" because the email could be "corroborated" by Papadopoulos is: "Mr. Mashburn and Mr. Papadopoulos declined to comment."

The answer to your question is yes, neither the journalist, the New York Times, the:



and given that Papadopoulus is cooperating with Mueller, this further puts the lie to Seth's inane and consistently wrong speculation.
I don't think you even know what you're arguing. Certainly nothing you've posted here contradicts what Abramson has said, and you only just now seem to have realised that whether or not the journalist can corroborate the existence of the email is irrelevant to what Abramson said.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:26 AM   #2859
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I don't think you even know what you're arguing. Certainly nothing you've posted here contradicts what Abramson has said, and you only just now seem to have realised that whether or not the journalist can corroborate the existence of the email is irrelevant to what Abramson said.
Abramson claimed that the NYT is being "silly" because Seth claims (based on nothing but rank speculation) that Papadopoulos can corroborate it.

The article shows without any doubt that Papadopoulos HAS NOT CORROBORATED it, despite the NYT, Congress, Mueller and others trying to do so!

It is obvious that Seth's claim is another incompetent lie.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:40 AM   #2860
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I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:23 AM   #2861
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The Senate Intel Committee says they have docs showing that Russia used the NRA to help Trump!

“The Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign"
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:01 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
I think this is a rational view right now. Trump's has potential legal liability on a wide range of issues but so far all that is supported with publicly available evidence is that some Trump campaign staff broke various laws. In Manafort's case he is charged violations that with don't necessarily tie back to the president.

I suspect that Trump won't come out of the Cohen situation unscathed. I doubt that he was paying Cohen from his personal post tax funds. He probably used corporation money to pay him. But this is a ticky tack issue. Trump will say he didn't know what Cohen was doing and he just assumed it was business related. He'll pay a fine and that will be over for him. Even Cohen might skate mostly free, possibly pleading guilty to some income tax violations, or campaign violations. But we don't know the full scope of Cohen's problems yet.

ETA: This is not to say there isn't smoke all over the place with regard to this stuff, but right now there aren't any visible flames large enough to bring Trump down that I'm aware of.
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:53 AM   #2863
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This is fun. According to an article in the Daily Kos Manafort prevented the cases from being consolidated into one trial in Washington, DC.

Good news for the lawyers. They're still winning. One trial for the price of two. Woo Hoo.

Daily Kos article: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...tail=emaildkre

Link to the court order denying Manafort's motion: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...f-eddde22f0001

That judge is not afraid to write. A wall of text telling Manafort that his legal theories were crap and that his motion was denied.
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:55 PM   #2864
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It's going to be Roger Stone's time in the barrel soon.
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Old 16th May 2018, 01:52 PM   #2865
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
Are we watching the same news come out? That is a legitimate question. I totally understand the overplayed "I'll wait and see, but won't speculate." It's an intellectually safe position to play. In all honesty though, there is Russian money flooding to Trump and his campaign from all over the place. It's been proven Cohen got money linked to Russia, there's a link that the NRA got money to help Trump from Russia, meetings between Kushner, et. al., and the list goes on and on.

I'll let you enjoy the perch, and by no means do I expect people to just agree with me, but good God. This is the problem. We've now grown so much more tolerant of this ignorant jackass's actions that all of this compiling evidence is becoming a shoulder shrug for Americans. It's really, really tough to watch. If this were any other sane administration the sky would be falling, now there are a portion of American's that seem to dismiss it.

Awesome.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:04 PM   #2866
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
Donald Junior's 7-minute call to a blocked number after the Trump Tower meeting is suggestive.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...russia-w520368

Quote:
The biggest question hanging over the June 9th meeting is whether Donald Trump had any knowledge of it. (Those involved have denied he did.) As the testimony lays out, after being contacted by Goldstone, Trump Jr. received a call from Emin Agalarov to discuss the meeting. Following the call, Trump Jr. placed a call to a blocked number, and, after that call concluded, dialed Agalarov back. Speculation has swirled that Trump was on the other end of the unknown call, and Trump Jr.'s amnesia-ridden testimony doesn't exactly quash suspicion that Trump knew of the meeting.
Quote:
When asked who he called between the two calls with Agalrov, Trump Jr. replied, "I have no idea."

Corey Lewandowski testified separately that Trump's primary residence uses a blocked number, but Trump Jr. – whom one would assume would also possess this information – didn't seem so sure. When asked if his father uses a blocked number "on his cellphone or on any phones that you call him on," Trump Jr. replied, "I don't know." When asked to clarify that he doesn't know if the call to the blocked number was to his father, Trump Jr. replied, "I don't."
We also have Trump later publicly asking Russian hackers for emails

ETA: the rest of the article suggests that Junior and Kushner might have been a bit self-serving in their recollections of the meeting - worth a read
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:09 PM   #2867
ServiceSoon
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Senate Intel Committee says they have docs showing that Russia used the NRA to help Trump!

“The Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign"
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just to me.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:11 PM   #2868
dudalb
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just to me.
Your loyalty to Dear Leader is impressive.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:15 PM   #2869
jimbob
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just to me.
There isn't exactly a lack of evidence - up to December, where I started to get overwhelmed by the amount of evidence, I periodically tried creating a timeline


Mar 19 Podesta email hacked
Apr 19 DCLeaks.com registered
May 3 Trump becomes presumptive nominee
June 3 Goldstone contacts Trump Jr. to setup meeting which promises to discuss Clinton
June 7 17:16 Don Jr. confirms meeting w/ Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya
June7 21:13Trump promises press conf the next week with Clinton dirt
June 8 Trump posts link to DCLeaks
June 9 Trump Jr, Kushner, Manafort meet with Russian operative
June 9 Trump Jr calls blocked number immediately after meeting claims he can't recall whether his father's number is blocked (others have confirmed it is)
June 12 Assange announces Clinton emails
June 27 Hacked emails posted to DCLeaks
July 11 Trump/Manafort nix pro-Ukranian plank in GOP platform (and lie about it)
Late JulyMalware researchers spot unusual server activity between Trump server and Alfa Bank
Aug 21 Roger Stone writes "it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel"
Oct -7 Pussygate video released
Oct 7 Wikileaks releases Podesta emails (an hour later)
Dec- 29 Flynn Consults With Transition Team, Then Calls Kislyak
Dec 30 Putin Declines to Retaliate
2017  
Jan 15 Pence Says He Is Unaware of Flynn’s Discussions
Jan 26 Sally Yates meets White House Counsel and warns that Flynn is lying and the Russians can prove it - making him a blackmail risk
Feb 9 Flynn’s Conversation Is Revealed by WaPo
Feb 13 Flynn fired
Feb 14 White House Says Flynn Violated President’s Trust
Feb 14 Trump asks FBI Director Comey to drop investigation into Flynn
May 9 Comey is fired
MayDOJ drops money laundering case against client of Natalia Veselnitskaya
May 11Trump tells NBC he considered "this Russia thing" before firing Comey
May 12 Democrats ask questions about the DoJ dropping the money lanudering case
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:32 PM   #2870
phiwum
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just to me.
What is wrong with that?

An article suggests a certain connection. An ongoing Senate investigation looks into it and finds supporting evidence. What is stupid-cartoon-meaning-shocking-because-words-are complicated about that?
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:37 PM   #2871
portlandatheist
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Manafort needs to thank him, it would still go forward somewhere else, at least this Judge is keeping his eye on the corrupt Mueller.
we have :
crooked Hillary
corrupt Mueller

we need some more monikers for the conservatives:
Clean as a whistle Manafort
Honest Donald
Forthright Cohen
Virtuous Flynn
Impervious Hanity
Straight shooter Sanders
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:47 PM   #2872
The Big Dog
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"Robert Mueller told Trump's legal team two weeks ago he will follow Justice Department guidance saying a sitting president cannot be indicted."

Cripes, this is going to drag out until 2024?
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:49 PM   #2873
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just to me.

https://apnews.com/4d174e45ef5843a0ba82e804f080988f
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:51 PM   #2874
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Could'nt happen to a more deserving guy.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:53 PM   #2875
dudalb
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
There isn't exactly a lack of evidence - up to December, where I started to get overwhelmed by the amount of evidence, I periodically tried creating a timeline


Mar 19 Podesta email hacked
Apr 19 DCLeaks.com registered
May 3 Trump becomes presumptive nominee
June 3 Goldstone contacts Trump Jr. to setup meeting which promises to discuss Clinton
June 7 17:16 Don Jr. confirms meeting w/ Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya
June7 21:13Trump promises press conf the next week with Clinton dirt
June 8 Trump posts link to DCLeaks
June 9 Trump Jr, Kushner, Manafort meet with Russian operative
June 9 Trump Jr calls blocked number immediately after meeting claims he can't recall whether his father's number is blocked (others have confirmed it is)
June 12 Assange announces Clinton emails
June 27 Hacked emails posted to DCLeaks
July 11 Trump/Manafort nix pro-Ukranian plank in GOP platform (and lie about it)
Late JulyMalware researchers spot unusual server activity between Trump server and Alfa Bank
Aug 21 Roger Stone writes "it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel"
Oct -7 Pussygate video released
Oct 7 Wikileaks releases Podesta emails (an hour later)
Dec- 29 Flynn Consults With Transition Team, Then Calls Kislyak
Dec 30 Putin Declines to Retaliate
2017  
Jan 15 Pence Says He Is Unaware of Flynn’s Discussions
Jan 26 Sally Yates meets White House Counsel and warns that Flynn is lying and the Russians can prove it - making him a blackmail risk
Feb 9 Flynn’s Conversation Is Revealed by WaPo
Feb 13 Flynn fired
Feb 14 White House Says Flynn Violated President’s Trust
Feb 14 Trump asks FBI Director Comey to drop investigation into Flynn
May 9 Comey is fired
MayDOJ drops money laundering case against client of Natalia Veselnitskaya
May 11Trump tells NBC he considered "this Russia thing" before firing Comey
May 12 Democrats ask questions about the DoJ dropping the money lanudering case
To be a Trump supporter,you really have to spend most of your time with your fingers in your ears, yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!".
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:57 PM   #2876
Stacko
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
To be a Trump supporter,you really have to spend most of your time with your fingers in your ears, yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!".
They're just listening to the parts they want to hear:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:10 PM   #2877
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.
I agree wholeheartedly...
Although I also contend that this isn't really new behavior, it's just newly being brought to light. This kind of misinformation and propaganda has been used by various countries pretty consistently over time... including the US, and we're likely one of the largest offenders in the realm of psy-ops. But it definitely should be something that we're aware of and that the US takes pains to interrupt.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
Nah - I think it'll be worse than that. A little under half will say "No big deal then"... and a little under the other half will decide that Mueller is a Trump shill and that the FBI is a republican front. There'll only be a slim segment of us in the middle who say "This is really important and we should do something about it!".
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:14 PM   #2878
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
we have :
crooked Hillary
corrupt Mueller

we need some more monikers for the conservatives:
Clean as a whistle Manafort
Honest Donald
Forthright Cohen
Virtuous Flynn
Impervious Hanity
Straight shooter Sanders
Wait... why is Sanders on that list?
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:22 PM   #2879
portlandatheist
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wait... why is Sanders on that list?
as in Sarah Huckabee Sanders
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:23 PM   #2880
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wait... why is Sanders on that list?

Yeah.

She was hired to tell lies. It isn't like it's her fault. It's her job.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 16th May 2018 at 03:32 PM.
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