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Old 10th November 2017, 10:03 AM   #361
MRC_Hans
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
7:237:23 = 0

Good example!
Oh, I'm sure you can do better than that. Is the quite authentic or not (you know the bible better than I, presumably ... I only read it a few times).

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Old 10th November 2017, 10:11 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, let us "break that down." The question posed is not whether there is evidence of any god but rather whether the Bible should be taught in school.
That is not the question at all and you know it. By that reasoning, all religious texts should be taught in school as fact. And I am fairly sure that the koran and allah would win over your particular flavour of deity whatever that is.

Are you in favour of islam being taught in schools as truth? Yes or no? Why or why not?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Indeed to come to a logical conclusion regarding whether there is "evidence" of the Lord discussed in the Bible, one must understand the Bible. Indeed, to go further, one must understand what is evidence and what does evidence mean in the context of the Holy Word.
That simply cannot be true. If it were, then there would be but a single version of christianity. But there are thousands. Westboro Baptist is a christian sect. Do you agree with them? Of course not. But they are your fellow christians.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Indeed shall we insist on evidence of Beauty before we acknowledge the Beauty of the Lord's creation? For is 'There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion," yet it exists.
The beauty of creation? Explain god's creation of that noxious eye-worm. Is that beautiful?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Lets explore this further:
No. Stop diverting and deal with the unanswered questions, please.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:17 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That is not the question at all and you know it. By that reasoning, all religious texts should be taught in school as fact. And I am fairly sure that the koran and allah would win over your particular flavour of deity whatever that is.
Oh dear... post 351 states the question under discussion, and i quote:

"The proposal: the bible should be taught in the public schools"

I thought they taught the koran in the schools of Saudi Arabia, but recently have been told that Saudi Arabia is quite open to other faiths!
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:34 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
...
...if there is poetry as good as the best of King James old testament in other books -- writing that deep, that amazing -- in the Koran ...I'd like to know about it.

Or is it only a matter of translation?

...
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php

I'm going to attempt at long last to answer my own question and look at this Koran translation that took this scholar 30 years.

But it's translated from Urdu, his language.

Anyway, if I find beautiful passages imo, I'll start a new thread in Philo. or Arts.

If I don't, as I expect, I won't.


old Allah, startin' right in with the threats. But not even well-written threats, so far:

Quote:
(2:20) It is as if the lightning would snatch their sight; whenever it gleams a while for them they walk a little, and when darkness covers them they halt.19 If Allah so willed, He could indeed take away their hearing and their sight.2
The tone from square 1 is like this.

square 2: it's always mixed right in there, the threats:

Quote:
Do not, then, set up rivals23 to Allah when you know (the Truth).
next,

Quote:
2:23) If you are in any doubt whether it is We Who have revealed this Book to Our servant, then produce just a surah like it, and call all your supporters and seek in it the support ...
(2:24) But if you fail to do this – and you will most certainly fail – then have fear of the Fire whose fuel is men and stones25 and which has been prepared for those who deny the Truth.


From the very beginning, threat and submission to power is the essence of this book.

In all honesty, it will only be by suppressing my intense disgust that I can read this revolting book.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:44 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually it does not, but using assumptions regarding the approximate size of the vessel one can perform calculations that suggest that the Bible suggests that it is 3. This is therefore useful in teaching "rounding" and in measuring physical shapes
So it's wrong. Not a good teaching aid.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:45 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Really? Loaves and fishes ring no bells? Oh, that was a miracle and in your view, we should all give that serious discussion.

How about talking burning bushes, or talking donkeys? Surely we should be debating those as well, right?
If you're going to reply to me, please address things I have said rather than making stuff up and acting as if I had said it.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:46 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
What? He says it many times. He says essentially, "why would god do this?"

Hans
Can you provide a timestamp to a good example, please?
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:57 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
So it's wrong. Not a good teaching aid.
Rule of s0
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:57 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear... post 351 states the question under discussion, and i quote:
Post #351 is not the OP. One would be forgiven for thinking that was fairly obvious. And given moderation and whatnot, post '351 could refer to anything.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"The proposal: the bible should be taught in the public schools"
Not really the OP, unless you worship Allah. In which case this is a very different conversation. In that case, why do you want Allah and Islam taught in schools?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I thought they taught the koran in the schools of Saudi Arabia, but recently have been told that Saudi Arabia is quite open to other faiths!
LOL, good one. Tell me you did not accept that claim at face value.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:05 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
The proposal: the bible should be taught in the public schools.
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Post #351 is not the OP. One would be forgiven for thinking that was fairly obvious. And given moderation and whatnot, post '351 could refer to anything.

Not really the OP, unless you worship Allah. In which case this is a very different conversation. In that case, why do you want Allah and Islam taught in schools?

LOL, good one. Tell me you did not accept that claim at face value.
Oh dear, I have quoted the post and by the way, although I fully concur that the dumpster fire of a video in the OP is nearly incoherent, with extreme patience one is able to glean that the subject of the rant in the video is a suggestion that the Holy bible be taught in schools. Perhaps therefore you will wish to revisit your claims?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:16 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, I have quoted the post and by the way, although I fully concur that the dumpster fire of a video in the OP is nearly incoherent, with extreme patience one is able to glean that the subject of the rant in the video is a suggestion that the Holy bible be taught in schools. Perhaps therefore you will wish to revisit your claims?
I have no idea what you believe or don't. And you are not saying.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:18 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I have no idea what you believe or don't. And you are not saying.
I believe that had nothing to do with my post you just quoted.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:28 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If you're going to reply to me, please address things I have said rather than making stuff up and acting as if I had said it.
Sure, you did not say it, but those are the claims you propose to defend.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:30 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I believe that had nothing to do with my post you just quoted.
OK. Let me make it plain. Your position makes Allah and the koran inviolable. It is OK by me if that is what you accept.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:33 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Rule of s0
You do know that using the word "so" is not an actual fallacy, don't you?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:34 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Sure, you did not say it, but those are the claims you propose to defend.
Try again.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:43 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Try again.
Nope. As a rule, when folks attempt to defend the indefensible, I generally walk away.

Best of luck to you defending the religion of your choice.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:52 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
OK. Let me make it plain. Your position makes Allah and the koran inviolable. It is OK by me if that is what you accept.
Discussing whether or not the Bible should be taught in schools makes the Koran inviolable?

I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:53 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Nope. As a rule, when folks attempt to defend the indefensible, I generally walk away.
Then can I take the fact that you have not walked away as an admission that you're not actually referencing anything I've said when you use phrases like "attempt to defend the indefensible" and that you are instead making things up and attributing them to me?

Quote:
Best of luck to you defending the religion of your choice.
Obviously I can't. Shame, for a brief second there it looked like you were perhaps reading what I'm writing and were thinking about replying to it rather than holding both sides of the conversation within your own head.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:54 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Discussing whether or not the Bible should be taught in schools makes the Koran inviolable?

I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there
You agree that the Koran and Islam should be taught in schools as the truth.

Ok then.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:54 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You do know that using the word "so" is not an actual fallacy, don't you?
and no is "so" claiming.

The Rule of So certainly is shorthand for one, tho
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:55 AM   #382
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Where are you at on the imposition of Shariah?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:57 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You agree that the Koran and Islam should be taught in schools as the truth.

Ok then.
I Refer the Honourable Gentleman to the Reply I Gave Some Moments Ago
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:58 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Then can I take the fact that you have not walked away as an admission that you're not actually referencing anything I've said when you use phrases like "attempt to defend the indefensible" and that you are instead making things up and attributing them to me?



Obviously I can't. Shame, for a brief second there it looked like you were perhaps reading what I'm writing and were thinking about replying to it rather than holding both sides of the conversation within your own head.
Oh, I read what you posted.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:05 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and no is "so" claiming.
I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.

Quote:
The Rule of So certainly is shorthand for one, tho
Can you link to any list of logical fallacies that identifies it as such?
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:05 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Can you provide a timestamp to a good example, please?
Mmm, that would require me to watch it again.

Mmm, no offence, but ... then I prefer to withdraw.

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Old 10th November 2017, 12:06 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Rule of s0
Could you provide a reference to that rule? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Hans
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:07 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Oh, I read what you posted.
Yes, I have been assuming that your invention of viewpoints for me rather than addressing what I've actually said has been deliberate, rather than that you're incapable of understanding basic English. It would be much more fruitful if you were to start being honest, though.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:17 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.

Can you link to any list of logical fallacies that identifies it as such?
It was supposed to say "no ONE is so claiming." My apologies...

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Could you provide a reference to that rule? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Hans
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1137
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:05 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Here's a challenge - can anybody formulate what they believe the argument in the video to actually be? Set it out, step by step. Do not refer to things which are not in the video. Do not add things to the premises, the reasoning, or the conclusion. Just using the words that Dusty himself uses, set out what you believe the argument to be, and explain why it's distinct from an argument from incredulity, or why the same argument could not be used to support a conclusion such as the one that evolution is untrue.
This is just a "jack-up"; a challenge with terms or reference so limited as to make it impossible to reach any conclusions that you don't personally agree with.... in other words, you know what you want the answer to be, and have framed the question so that it can only give you the answer you want. (You should be a criminal prosecutor in NZ, you would do well!)

We are not intellectual morons here. We are capable of comprehension and of reading between the lines. The conclusions from a presentation are often arrived at from interpretation by the viewer, and often with information or knowledge that the viewer possesses that could be outside the scope of the presentation, and/or which may or may not be formally mentioned within. For example, in a rugby union test match between New Zealand and Australia, the New Zealand team is wearing black and the Australian team is wearing yellow. The television commentator does not mention this fact, and nor does he need to, because its common knowledge and the viewers will already know.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:08 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It was supposed to say "no ONE is so claiming." My apologies...



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1137
Cool. So, is it your private rule?

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Old 10th November 2017, 01:09 PM   #392
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Delete double post.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:10 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I see we are not teaching logic at this hypothetical school.
You see wrong. That's why you can't see the logic.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"Class dismissed. School's out forever, bitches" is PRECISELY the type of "argument" one would expect from someone unfortunately exposed to too much Redneck Atheist and too little rhetoric.
You should thank me for tossing you that straw to clutch at.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have to tell you, I was not a fan of teaching the Holy Bible in public school (because of the establishment clause) but seeing how dreadful the other arguments are in opposition to this, I am becoming convinced that we should install the Bible throughout the curriculum!
Oh my! How quickly, how casually you abandon the Constitution in your pursuit of... ____________(fill in the blank)

You haven't even addressed any of the arguments. You simply scrabble for whatever straw may happen to flutter within your grasp, which you then proceed to brandish triumphantly.

If I wanted to distract you from taking issue with an actual argument, I would be sure to include such a straw for you to clutch at. It works every time.

I have to tell you, my position may be evolving as well. I am now considering the possibility that teaching the bible in the schools may be the best way to get rid of it in the long run. I'm mulling over the likelihood of student backlash. Possibly societal backlash.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:13 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Cool. So, is it your private rule?

hans
Interesting dilemma. Example of a Rule of So? I am going to assume the question is asked in good faith, so, not a Rule of So. The answer is no: it was created and popularized by other skeptics on this website. Thanks for asking.

Now back to the issues!
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:17 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Interesting dilemma. Example of a Rule of So? I am going to assume the question is asked in good faith, so, not a Rule of So. The answer is no: it was created and popularized by other skeptics on this website. Thanks for asking.

Now back to the issues!
OK, fine. I asked because you quoted yourself.

Hans
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:22 PM   #396
Thor 2
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Well this thread has certainly moved along in my absence and I see many statements about an "argument" being made by Dusty?

I did not watch the whole video as I found it a tad tiresome, and the vulgarity just a bit over the top. Strangely enough I did not see much of an "argument" being made, but rather just the telling of Biblical stories in such a way, that emphasises the absurdity of the stories. To me the original stories are clearly absurd without such emphasis.

The Big Dog is on record with statements about some parts of the Bible being allegorical but is shy about telling us how to tell which parts are and are not. We are yet to here any description of what hidden deep message is contained in the allegorical stories.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:25 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
You haven't even addressed any of the arguments. You simply scrabble for whatever straw may happen to flutter within your grasp, which you then proceed to brandish triumphantly.
well... there weren't any arguments....

"The proposal: the bible should be taught in the public schools."

One would expect to see an argument about the Bible, yet we see this:

"The counter-argument: the biblical god is either imaginary, or the biblical god is real but, (in addition to being undetectable by means of observation) behaves irrationally and cruelly almost beyond description."

Which does not address the issue, and are nothing but your own conclusions. I mean this should be obvious, so I need not belabor the point any further.

As I have pointed out previously, Atheist Dogma are not arguments.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:27 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
OK, fine. I asked because you quoted yourself.

Hans
well, modesty does not permit me to note that I am considered the world's foremost expert on the Rule of So.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:28 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

Snip.

As I have pointed out previously, Atheist Dogma are not arguments.

Atheist Dogma?

What does that look like?
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:42 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Cool. So, is it your private rule?

hans
Oh yes! Absolutely.

I hadn't noticed The Big Dog using it recently but apparently he did not abandon it after all. Perhaps I just wasn't following the right threads...
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