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Old 29th November 2017, 11:38 AM   #321
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I think Sara Huckabee-Sanders hit the main point today, republicans simply no longer care if something is true or not. Truth is irrelevant to them.
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:58 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I think Sara Huckabee-Sanders hit the main point today, republicans simply no longer care if something is true or not. Truth is irrelevant to them.
Gingrich said as much after the convention last year. Republicans count on voters relying on feelings rather than facts.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:04 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Can we - in honor of the actual GOP - call the modern iteration of the same something else to distinguish it from what it used to be? Maybe the Trumplican party? The Trumpist party?
Where do you put sellouts like Ryan and McConnell in your scenario? Which Republicans are still originals?
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:05 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I think Sara Huckabee-Sanders hit the main point today, republicans simply no longer care if something is true or not. Truth is irrelevant to them.
What'd she say?
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:06 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Gingrich said as much after the convention last year. Republicans count on voters relying on feelings rather than facts.
But... but... logger assures me that it's liberals that are won over by feelings.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:10 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Gingrich said as much after the convention last year. Republicans Politicians count on voters relying on feelings rather than facts.
Edited for accuracy.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:10 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Can we - in honor of the actual GOP - call the modern iteration of the same something else to distinguish it from what it used to be? Maybe the Trumplican party? The Trumpist party?
The Nixonican party if you want to go back to the start of the rot. The embrace of the Southern Strategy led to this.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:12 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
... The issue with Trump, most of his sins can be the result of his ignorance.
No, they cannot. His ignorance prevents him from hiding his racism and misogyny but that doesn't mean his racism and misogyny don't exist.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:16 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I am loathe to fall prey to the "No true Scotsman" fallacy, but here's my claim.

Romney's plan was a Republican plan in MA, but not a plan that was widely accepted among Republicans. It was something that worked in a liberal state (where I live).

It should have worked on the Federal level, but it didn't. Damned shame.

Now, of course, Trump wants to undo everything that Obama ever did, because Trump is a child in the executive office. He's a *********** moron.

But it's not the case that all principled Republicans want to repeal Obamacare. I'd reckon that Romney is in favor of it, for instance. Some Republicans oppose Dems just because they're Dems. So what? We should not support such small-brained people. But some Republicans have real principles, principles worth defending. Romney and McCain are among them.
The ACA ideas didn't start with Romney. They started with the Heritage Foundation. And the ideas were embraced by the GOP until it became a Democratic proposal.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:30 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Edited for accuracy.
So where are the democratic candidates and spokespeople saying facts don't matter?
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:33 PM   #331
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Trump and his supporters are not conservatives.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:34 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Trump and his supporters are not conservatives.
So if the republican party is not conservative who is? The democratic party?

I can see the argument but it really doesn't seem to fit with how Americans use the word
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:38 PM   #333
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The Republican Party was once the Conservative party but no more. It has become the Trump party.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:41 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
The Republican Party was once the Conservative party but no more. It has become the Trump party.
Oh so this is really just a no true conservative. Got it.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:45 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Oh so this is really just a no true conservative. Got it.
There are "true" conservatives. Possibly not in the US, and precious few in the UK in any positions of influence, but the CDU in Germany springs to mind.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:00 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Edited for accuracy.
Only to some minor extent. Most politicians on both sides spin facts to their advantage. Trump just lies with impunity.

I never accused another Republican of such disregard for the truth.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:02 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What'd she say?
Guess I'll never know.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:06 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Guess I'll never know.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/whit...t-is-real.html
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:11 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What'd she say?
Something that will show up in a court as basis for the travel ban being religiously motivated.

Quote:
"Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters. "His goal is to promote strong border security and strong national security."
Kakistocracy all the way down with these imbeciles.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:14 PM   #340
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Huh.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:25 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And that they are more willing to stand with nazis and sex offenders than dems and libs.
Which perfectly shows off their core belief system for the evil it is!!!
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:33 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Generally because they see a profit in it. Short term returns beat reality every time.
The implication being that liberals don't do the same thing?
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:42 PM   #343
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Condemning your opponent as evil is the tactic of dogmatic zealots, not the strategy of intelligent humans.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:54 PM   #344
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Sam Brownback is here in the Senate (outside GOP lunch) saying the Kansas tax plan worked, created jobs.
"What we did actually worked."
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:24 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
The implication being that liberals don't do the same thing?
Not to the same extent, no.

We all tend to our biases, no doubt. And it is sad to see that so-called conservatives are being hornswaggled by Trump. It's a shame for them.

But apparently that's how it goes these days.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:20 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Condemning your opponent as evil is the tactic of dogmatic zealots, not the strategy of intelligent humans.

Not when they really are actually evil, and do little or nothing to hide it.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:29 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Condemning your opponent as evil is the tactic of dogmatic zealots, not the strategy of intelligent humans.
Trump is clear proof that the enemy is indeed evil. I assume it's followers (in kindness) are merely deluded.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:31 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That certainly means he had carnal knowledge of his mother and is thus a ************* liar!!!!!!!
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:32 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
That certainly means he had carnal knowledge of his mother and is thus a ************* liar!!!!!!!
Interesting - the number of asterisks matches the word this trip!!!
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Old 30th November 2017, 04:06 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Condemning your opponent as evil is the tactic of dogmatic zealots, not the strategy of intelligent humans.
Exactly, that is why calling nazis nazis is wrong. They were just people and not some fundamentally corrupt morally bankrupt ideology. That is why the nazi wings of the republican party need to be viewed as people with just different ideas on ethnic cleansing and genocide not as evil.
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Old 30th November 2017, 05:07 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where do you put sellouts like Ryan and McConnell in your scenario? Which Republicans are still originals?
Don't know if any still exist. Most seem to have adapted to the new reality. I suppose you could argue that McCain in his twilight years is recalling what it meant to be a Republican.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:01 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Can we - in honor of the actual GOP - call the modern iteration of the same something else to distinguish it from what it used to be? Maybe the Trumplican party? The Trumpist party?
The "Proud to Know Nothings".
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:38 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The "Proud to Know Nothings".
Sure... as long as you rename the Democrats "Holier than Thou" or "We Know Best".
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:01 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sure... as long as you rename the Democrats "Holier than Thou" or "We Know Best".
That is the Pence wing of the republican party. Best to spend money to cure homoseuxality than preventing the spread of HIV certainly. Hits both those notes.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 03:46 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sure... as long as you rename the Democrats "Holier than Thou" or "We Know Best".
Well, the second is absolutely true!!!! But I do hope many of them do NOT take religion seriously!!!!!
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Old 2nd December 2017, 09:16 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sure... as long as you rename the Democrats "Holier than Thou" or "We Know Best".
With due respect, will you get off it?

The Republicans at present have damned well abandoned their principles in order to grab the coattails of a populist who has ****-all to do with conservativism. That's simply the case. It's a shame, because a principled conservative party is a good thing for a democracy, but sadly we don't have much of one at present.

It will, of course, come back. At least I think so. But the fact that Democrats rue the loss of a principled opponent doesn't mean they're just as bad. At present, they aren't just as bad. At present, it is only the Republicans who've abandoned their principles, not the Democrats.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 12:27 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
With due respect, will you get off it?

The Republicans at present have damned well abandoned their principles in order to grab the coattails of a populist who has ****-all to do with conservativism. That's simply the case. It's a shame, because a principled conservative party is a good thing for a democracy, but sadly we don't have much of one at present.

It will, of course, come back. At least I think so. But the fact that Democrats rue the loss of a principled opponent doesn't mean they're just as bad. At present, they aren't just as bad. At present, it is only the Republicans who've abandoned their principles, not the Democrats.
Yes, and Roy Moore is one of the most obvious examples of this.

His career isn't over, he's got Presidential endorsement.
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Old 5th December 2017, 04:57 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
With due respect, will you get off it?

The Republicans at present have damned well abandoned their principles in order to grab the coattails of a populist who has ****-all to do with conservativism. That's simply the case. It's a shame, because a principled conservative party is a good thing for a democracy, but sadly we don't have much of one at present.

It will, of course, come back. At least I think so. But the fact that Democrats rue the loss of a principled opponent doesn't mean they're just as bad. At present, they aren't just as bad. At present, it is only the Republicans who've abandoned their principles, not the Democrats.
With respect - Both "Holier than thou" and "We know best" pretty well capture the stance of the Democratic party over my whole adult lifetime. That's not an abandonment of Democrat's principles, it's clarifying them.
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Old 6th December 2017, 04:05 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
With respect - Both "Holier than thou" and "We know best" pretty well capture the stance of the Democratic party over my whole adult lifetime. That's not an abandonment of Democrat's principles, it's clarifying them.
And of course perfectly capture the republican party too. As if modeling your self as the "family Values"(meaning hating gay people of course) isn't a holier than thou position. But you just happen to like their messages more about hating the right kinds of people.
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Old 6th December 2017, 02:17 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
With respect - Both "Holier than thou" and "We know best" pretty well capture the stance of the Democratic party over my whole adult lifetime. That's not an abandonment of Democrat's principles, it's clarifying them.
If you became an adult after the early 1980s the GOP was already slipping from the moorings of reality, so that's not too surprising.
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