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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 10th November 2017, 01:48 AM   #1
Stacyhs
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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Which is why: 1. The Hellmann court verdict of guilt for the charge of calunnia against Lumumba was arbitrary; 2. The ECHR will have one more reason, if it wants to list them all, to find that Amanda's conviction for calunnia was unfair under the Convention and allow her to request a retrial.

Arbitrary judgments of conviction are always considered unfair by the ECHR.
I seem to remember reading that Hellmann regretted convicting Amanda of calunnia but I can't find it now. Does anyone else remember this?

Mod InfoThis thread continues from here. As usual the split point is arbitrary and participants are free to quote from previous iteration[s] of this thread.
Posted By:zooterkin

Last edited by zooterkin; 10th November 2017 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 03:31 AM   #2
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Here's the last paragraph of the 6 April 2016 article on the acquittal of Amanda Knox on the charge of calunnia against the police.

Non ci sono le prove «Le scelte investigative hanno indotto nell’imputata il convincimento di aver subìto una pianificata azione investigativa vessatoria e ingiusta. Manca la prova che i fatti non si siano svolti, in effetti, come narrato dalla ragazza e che lei fosse pienamente consapevole dell’estraneità del pm alle modalità di conduzione delle indagini. E’ verosimile che la Knox fosse convinta di essere vittima di un meccanismo ingiustamente vessatorio e prevaricatorio. Quanto alla posizione del magistrato, evidentemente ritenuto l’ispiratore gerarchico, sia pure erroneamente lo riteneva primo artefice ed ideatore del suo stato di soggezione».

Google translated with help from Collins Reverso and me:

There is no evidence: "Investigative decisions have led the accused [defendant] to the conviction of having been subjected to a planned and unjustified investigative action. There is no evidence that the facts did not take place, in fact, as described by the girl, nor that she was fully aware of the non-involvement of the prosecutor in conducting the investigations. It is likely that Knox was convinced that she was the victim of an unfair and perverse system. Regarding the position of the magistrate, apparently because of his position in the hierarchy, {she considered him the inspiration of the events, so that} she mistakenly considered him the first author and designer of her state of subjection.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Note what the highlighted sentence in your first post said. No one noted "irritation on Meredith's side" except the British girls who only noted this months after Amanda had been arrested...when they were firmly convinced she had murdered their friend. Any criticism, however mild, made by Meredith would have interpreted in a much more negative light then.

Filomena did not note any unusual irritation between the two girls. Nor did Laura. Nor did the boys downstairs, including Silenzi. As for his complaints at the questura, these views stated were also given after Amanda's arrest when he too, assumed she was guilty of murder. This is what he said in an interview:




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4xz4JOoMU


This sounds like grandstanding for the press to me. And note his last sentence (highlighted). If he had really thought this, why no mention of it in his testimony? Why did he say just the opposite? He's either lying to the press or he lied in court.

I highly doubt the Kerchers read Knox's blog. If there's so much concern for leaving the Kerchers "in peace" then I suggest the British tabloids like the DM stop publishing Knox related stories and nasty articles like Jan Moir's where the PGP spew their venom in the comments sections. That is what the Kerchers will see, not Amanda's blog.

Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.
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O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile,
Which I have loved long since, and lost awhile. ~ John Newman 1834
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
In 1989, the carabinieri unofficially asked the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit to develop a profile of the Monster of Florence. This is that profile. Notice this does not, in any way, agree with Mignini's wild and unsupported theory:

Of course, this is the unit developed and led by John Douglas, the PR shill, so this profile is undoubtedly and almost certainly wrong.
John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.
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3. So long Thy pow’r has blest me, sure it still
Wilt lead me on,
O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile,
Which I have loved long since, and lost awhile. ~ John Newman 1834
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez Meredith had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.
Why the need to present Meredith's British friends as insufferable snobs? What does that have to do with AK and the ever forgotten RS being acquitted?
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Old 10th November 2017, 08:10 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.
The pro-Mignini PR campaign continues. Not only did these Americans have a "vendetta" against your hero, so did the Superior Council of the Judiciary in Italy, which censured him. So did other Italian prosecutors who tried to convict him of abuse of office.

So did the recent Florence court which threw out his defamation claims against Sollecito and Gumbel. So did Mignini himself have a self-vendetta for withdrawing his own civil suit against RS and AG.

You're quite correct, Mignini is the real victim here.

Don't forget to include Stefanoni as a victim. She has no forensic-DNA expert in the world who will vouch for her work.

BTW - whatever happened to Peter Quennell's promise that Mignini throwing in the towel over his bogus defamation calims against RS and AG, such promise that that failure on Mignini's part was really a victory? Where's the promised apology from AG and RS?
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Old 10th November 2017, 08:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.
Oh nonsense. Mignini is a blathering small time idiot who has no business being in that job. Douglas is a world renowned professional detective. Mignini comes up with moronic theories and tries to make the evidence post facto fit his theories. In contrast, Douglas follows the evidence where it takes the case.

When are you going to apply an intellectual approach to the evidence and the case? Not an ounce of trouble from Amanda or Raffaele outside of one noisy party in their entire lives and your still peddling your psychopathic nonsense that these two upstanding citizens of an acquaintance of 8 days who could barely communicate with each other conspired with a proven burglar to kill her roommate.

This is incredibly embarrassing and tiresome. I'm curious, will you ever have an epiphany and come to terms with the stupidity of your position? If Amanda and Raffaele continue to live upstanding lives will you ever admit your mistake? Or are you like Trump and will continue to insist you are right despite the obvious?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:23 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.
Man, what a slut. No wonder you're bummed out she's not in prison for a murder she didn't commit. Hey at least the floozy got 4 years, right?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.
No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 10th November 2017 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.
You've said some outrageous things, but this one takes top prize for its sheer absurdity. What vendetta does John Douglas have against Mignini? What evidence do you have that Douglas and Preston are "chums"?
But the icing on the absurdity cake is the fact that this profile was done in 1989, 18 years before Kercher was murdered and at least 11 years before Preston had even heard of Mignini!
Stop just making things up.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 10th November 2017 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.
Originally Posted by NotEvenWrong View Post
Man, what a slut. No wonder you're bummed out she's not in prison for a murder she didn't commit. Hey at least the floozy got 4 years, right?
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.
Thanks Stacyhs and NotEvenWrong.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 12


But for argument sake. Let's say that Vixen is right. Amanda likes attention from men. So?

It still doesn't make her a murderer any more than if she was a nun. There is NO correlation between sex and violence. I was a very promiscuous young man and I never committed violence against anyone. I find it amusing how Vixen has ignored Meredith's sexual exploration and demonized Amanda's.

The problem isn't Amanda's, it is Vixen's and the destructive lifestyle of religion. Sex is dirty, and filthy. Sex is for procreation only.
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Last edited by Agatha; 12th November 2017 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Closing thread, opening new thread
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.

Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.
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3. So long Thy pow’r has blest me, sure it still
Wilt lead me on,
O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile,
Which I have loved long since, and lost awhile. ~ John Newman 1834
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You've said some outrageous things, but this one takes top prize for its sheer absurdity. What vendetta does John Douglas have against Mignini? What evidence do you have that Douglas and Preston are "chums"?
But the icing on the absurdity cake is the fact that this profile was done in 1989, 18 years before Kercher was murdered and at least 11 years before Preston had even heard of Mignini!
Stop just making things up.
We see this in John Douglas' own account. He was a pioneering FBI profiler.

Then he retired to write books.

He became a 'gun for hire' - rther like Gill - as there is big money in adding your 'influence' as a defence voice for persons charged with murder.

Thus we see Douglas coming out in support of heinous killers such as Avery, the West Memphis Three and the Kercher killers.

No evidence, just John Douglas' say-so.

When we further note his best chum is the bitter Doug Preston, it all beomes clear his support for Knox is merely based on a PR campaign against Mignini, because a two-bit pulp fiction writer - Preston - got booted out of Italy for trying to obstruct justice in the MOF case.
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O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile,
Which I have loved long since, and lost awhile. ~ John Newman 1834
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thanks Stacyhs and NotEvenWrong. This is Vixen again subtly trying to suggest that Amanda is a slut. This tells you where Vixen's sick mind is. She's more interested in slut shaming than anything else.

But for argument sake. Let's say that Vixen is right. Amanda likes attention from men. So?

It still doesn't make her a murderer any more than if she was a nun. There is NO correlation between sex and violence. I was a very promiscuous young man and I never committed violence against anyone. I find it amusing how Vixen has ignored Meredith's sexual exploration and demonized Amanda's.

The problem isn't Amanda's, it is Vixen's and the destructive lifestyle of religion. Sex is dirty, and filthy. Sex is for procreation only.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 9 and rule 12


Homo Sapiens are designed to be rampantly sexually active in youth. It's to do with the release of hormones. Its function is the continuation of the species.

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Most people screw around a lot in their youth.

...Then they get married and the sex stops...

Seriously though, there is nothing more dear and precious than the family [
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 12
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3. So long Thy pow’r has blest me, sure it still
Wilt lead me on,
O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile,
Which I have loved long since, and lost awhile. ~ John Newman 1834

Last edited by Agatha; 12th November 2017 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 11th November 2017, 02:29 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?
https://twitter.com/themadpax?lang=en&lang=en

Check out who she follows!
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:18 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.
Let the slut-shaming begin. It's what the pro-Mignini PR campaign does to divert from the disasters befalling their hero.

When Mignini is censured, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When the defamation charges against RS and AG are thrown out, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When Mignini himself withdraws his civil suit against RS and AG, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When promising that those last two items were really a victory for Mignini and predicting an apology to Mignini from RS and AG - such fantasy which never comes, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When their favourite author NvdL is accused of plagiarism by ALL sides to this case, try to divert from that by slut-shaming the wrongfully convicted.

Divert, divert, divert. When Mignini is embarrassed make sure at all costs to bury it, and slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.
What do you mean? Would you really expect them to be 'permanent roommates'? People move on and develop other relationships.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 12


Fact One: The British girls were attending a different school than Amanda so they didn't really know Amanda.
Fact Two: The Foreigners School that Amanda attended was part of the accredited Travel Abroad program for the University of Washington.
Fact Three: Meredith was banging the Italian boy who lived downstairs so she wasn't any more innocent than Amanda.
Fact Four: Everyone who lived in that cottage used drugs.
Fact Five: Amanda was so responsible she got a job.

Why is it you persist with attempting to paint Meredith as perfect and Amanda as some irresponsible drug slut when their behaviors were almost identical?
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Old 11th November 2017, 09:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Removed previously moderated content


Homo Sapiens are designed to be rampantly sexually active in youth. It's to do with the release of hormones. Its function is the continuation of the species.

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Most people screw around a lot in their youth.

...Then they get married and the sex stops...

Seriously though, there is nothing more dear and precious than the family
Edited by Agatha:  Removed previously moderated content
WOW! WOW! What total unadulterated nonsense! Crazy lunacy! If most people screw around in their youth why is it you continue to portray Amanda as a globe trotting slut and Meredith as the studious virgin?

As for me, the atheist. I'd like to see mankind move on from bronze age religions and silly false superstitions, not family. I want people to trust their critical thinking skills. Trust in logic and the scientific method not the ideas of people who had NO IDEA what the scientific method is.

BTW, how do you think you create a family? It's called sex. And while I know some people that got married and stopped having sex, I know plenty of married couples who have very healthy sex lives 30 years after tying the knot. My parents for one.
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Old 11th November 2017, 09:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.
You just made that up. Completely.

Either provide evidence of this bollocks or just stop it.

Would be more interesting for you to address the John Douglas stuff you tried to peddle though.

Thanks.
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Old 11th November 2017, 09:23 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
You just made that up. Completely.

Either provide evidence of this bollocks or just stop it.

Would be more interesting for you to address the John Douglas stuff you tried to peddle though.

Thanks.
I think you're giving Vixen too much credit. While it is certainly a fabrication, Vixen didn't make this up. This is exactly the dialog you hear in the TJMK and PMF echo chamber for the last decade.
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Old 11th November 2017, 10:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think you're giving Vixen too much credit. While it is certainly a fabrication, Vixen didn't make this up. This is exactly the dialog you hear in the TJMK and PMF echo chamber for the last decade.
When I read these absolute fabrications about someone that the poster never ever knew in her life, it is mind boggling.

Can't talk about the forensic science?
Make up salacious details about the people involved.
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Old 11th November 2017, 11:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
When I read these absolute fabrications about someone that the poster never ever knew in her life, it is mind boggling.

Can't talk about the forensic science?
Make up salacious details about the people involved.
It is mind boggling.

Virtually everything you hear from the PGP is salacious stories about the defendants even though they are either basically normal stuff you could expect out of most college age kids. Or the stories are just wild fabrications.

They rarely talk about the forensics other than to dismiss the expertise of world class scientists.
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.
Where is Madison Paxton now? Take a look at her FB page Planigale provided a link to and where she is still supporting Amanda and where Amanda and Raffaele post. So much for your innuendo.

So now you speak for all young Brits? It doesn't matter why the British girls didn't care for Amanda. Has it ever entered your mind that maybe Amanda didn't care to hang around with them? She was friends with Meredith. As I said, Amanda wasn't interested in chumming around with a bunch of English speakers. She was making her own Italian speaking friends.

"Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll"

Your ignorance is apparent once more. Her plan was to improve her Italian by studying in Perugia for nine months, then to attend a WSU sponsored literary program in Rome in June.
How easily you condemn Amanda for "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" when Meredith was having sex, smoking pot, drinking, and partying as well. Such blatant hypocrisy.
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
We see this in John Douglas' own account. He was a pioneering FBI profiler.

Then he retired to write books.

He became a 'gun for hire' - rther like Gill - as there is big money in adding your 'influence' as a defence voice for persons charged with murder.

Thus we see Douglas coming out in support of heinous killers such as Avery, the West Memphis Three and the Kercher killers.

No evidence, just John Douglas' say-so.

When we further note his best chum is the bitter Doug Preston, it all beomes clear his support for Knox is merely based on a PR campaign against Mignini, because a two-bit pulp fiction writer - Preston - got booted out of Italy for trying to obstruct justice in the MOF case.
"We see this in John Douglas' own account"? Another "fact" pulled straight from your ...well, we all know where. Provide evidence...if you can.

You really can't see just how ludicrous your "gun for hire" nonsense is, can you? You really think that Douglas and Gill, two very highly respected men in their fields who spent a lifetime earning that respect, would become "guns for hire" for someone they did not know and had no connection to? You are so deep into your fantasy world that you actually believe that nonsense rather than accept that they came to the conclusions they did based on their professional experience and knowledge.

"No evidence, just John Douglas' say-so."

Um, no. John Douglas' conclusions are based on years as an FBI profiler. Remember that it was the carabinieri themselves who came to him regarding the Monster of Florence profile.

"When we further note his best chum is the bitter Doug Preston"
No, "we" don't note any such thing. Once again you claim that Preston and Douglas are "chums" with no evidence whatsoever.

"...it all beomes clear his support for Knox is merely based on a PR campaign against Mignini, because a two-bit pulp fiction writer - Preston - got booted out of Italy for trying to obstruct justice in the MOF case"

LOL! Preston has several best sellers on the LA Times and NY Times Lists and a second book being made into a movie. There's a "two bit" fiction writer around, but it sure isn't Preston! Jealousy is not a becoming trait.

Exactly what did Preston do that was "obstructing justice"? Or do you honestly believe that Spezi was the MofF and that he and Preston planted a gun to mislead the police? Remember, every single one of the numerous charges ever levelled against Spezi by Mignini was throw out. There was a vendetta, all right...but it wasn't by Douglas, Spezi, or Preston.

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Old 11th November 2017, 01:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Removed previously moderated content


Homo Sapiens are designed to be rampantly sexually active in youth. It's to do with the release of hormones. Its function is the continuation of the species.

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Most people screw around a lot in their youth.

...Then they get married and the sex stops...

Seriously though, there is nothing more dear and precious than the family
Edited by Agatha:  Removed previously moderated content
Please preserve us from people who just make things up continually. Back to the old "Amanda claimed to have invented sex" nonsense again I see. No matter how many times you are asked to provide evidence of this, you never, ever do. It doesn't take a Mensa member to figure out why that is.

So sex stops after marriage, does it? Happily, that hasn't been my experience after 35 years of marriage. But maybe for some, it does stop.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 12


By the way, being an atheist has absolutely nothing to do with love of family. No doubt. Or do you think only believers love their families?

Last edited by Agatha; 12th November 2017 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
And who she retweets and who posts there: Amanda and Raffaele.
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:09 PM   #27
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Doesn't look like she's done anything much on Twitter for a year, so I don't think looking at her Twitter page is very informative.
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Old 12th November 2017, 07:58 AM   #28
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I have done a Google search on "Amanda Knox assolta da calunnie a polizia" to look for any other interesting Italian media articles.

Here's one that reports on the ECHR Communication of Knox v. Italy to Italy:

"Meredith Kercher, accolto il ricorso di Amanda Knox alla Corte di Strasburgo: “Processo iniquo e maltrattamenti”

La studentessa americana era finita a giudizio, tra l'altro, anche per la calunnia nei confronti degli agenti che l'avevano interrogata, ma era stata assolta. Il giudice ha scritto tra l'altro che l'inchiesta era stata caratterizzata da "numerose irritualità procedurali" e dalla durata "ossessiva" degli interrogatori

La Corte europea dei diritti umani ha accolto in via preliminare il ricorso contro l'Italia presentato da Amanda Knox , la ragazza prosciolta in Cassazione dall'accusa di aver partecipato all'uccisione di Meredith Kercher . La giovane sostiene di aver subito un processo iniquo e di essere stata maltrattata durante l'interrogatorio. La Corte di Strasburgo ha ritenuto valido il dossier presentato dai legali della Knox ed ha comunicato il ricorso al governo italiano affinché possa difendersi."

Source: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/201...menti/2739101/

Google translation with my help:

Meredith Kercher: the Strasbourg Court welcomed Amanda Knox's application on: "Injury and ill-treatment"

The trial of the American student, for among other things, the alleged false accusations against the agents who had questioned her, has ended because she has been {finally} acquitted.

The judge wrote, among other things, that the investigation was characterized by "numerous procedural irregularities" and the "obsessive" duration of the interrogations. The European Court of Human Rights has initially received the application against Italy submitted by Amanda Knox, the girl who was acquitted in the Supreme Court on charges of participating in the killing of Meredith Kercher. The young woman claims to have been subjected to an unfair trial and to have been mistreated during the interrogation. The Court of Strasbourg considered the dossier submitted by Knox's lawyers to be valid and informed the Italian Government that it could {choose to} defend itself.

Last edited by Numbers; 12th November 2017 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Fixed the paragraph spacing in the translation.
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:13 AM   #29
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Mod Warning Will all participants please make a much greater effort to discuss the arguments rather than those people making them.

Will you all kindly remain on topic too; if there are other issues that you wish to discuss, please do so in the appropriate existing threads or open a new one.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The young woman claims to have been subjected to an unfair trial and to have been mistreated during the interrogation. The Court of Strasbourg considered the dossier submitted by Knox's lawyers to be valid and informed the Italian Government that it could {choose to} defend itself.
The Italians are lucky to have such an easy job defending themselves all they have to do is roll the tape of Amanda lying her ass off and...oh
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:44 AM   #31
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Edited by TubbaBlubba:  Removed material appropriate for FMF as per rule 11. If you have a question about the moderation of the forum, PM the mods, or post in Forum Management Feedback.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:53 PM   #32
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Here's a little puzzle suggested by the questions of a poster on another forum.

Did the Nencini appeal court violate Italian procedural laws, CPP Articles 648 and 649, by provisionally convicting Knox and Sollecito on the original Charge D, that is, of the theft of 300 euros, 2 credit cards, and 2 cell phones from Kercher?

Examination of available court records make it clear that the Nencini court did violate those procedural laws.

Charge D alleged the theft, by Knox and Sollecito, of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones from Kercher.

Massei indeed acquitted Knox and Sollecito of part of Charge D (the theft of 300 euros and two credit cards) on the specification "because the fact [act of the crime] had not occurred" ("perche il fatto non sussiste"), under CPP Article 530 (the paragraph not being referenced, for those interested in that alleged controversy.)

However, Massei convicted them of the "residual" part of Charge D, the theft of two cell phones.

An appeal of the Massei verdict and sentence by the prosecution is available on www.amandaknoxcase.com. This appeal, by Mignini and Comodi, dated 13 April 2010, is available in Italian and English translation. There is no mention of the Charge D verdict at all in that appeal. The entire appeal is devoted to arguing that there should have been no extenuating circumstances granted to Knox and Sollecito by the Massei court in their sentence, and thus the sentence should have been increased. This suggests that the revision of Charge D to theft of the telephones only was finalized by the time the Hellmann court heard the appeal.

Only the residual part of Charge D appears at the beginning of the Hellmann motivation report, that is, the theft of two cell phones. The theft of the 300 euros and the two credit cards are intentionally omitted (the word "OMISSIS" [= omission, deletion] is substituted for those items). Hellmann acquitted on this revised Charge D with the specification "because the accused had not committed the act". Hellmann did not discuss the theft of the money or credit cards in the motivation report. These are certain indications that there was no prosecution appeal relating to Massei's acquittal for these two elements of Charge D.

Now the Chieffi verdict quashed all the Hellmann acquittals, including the acquittal for Charge D, only maintaining the conviction of Knox on Charge F, "simple" [rather than aggravated] calunnia against Lumumba. As far as I can tell from a brief review of each page of the Chieffi CSC panel motivation report, nowhere in the report are the charges written out. I am unsure whether the Chieffi verdict reinstated Charge D only for the theft of the two cell phones or whether it reinstated it for the full Charge D as it appeared in Massei. The CSC would not have the authority to reinstate the final and definitive acquittals on the two elements of Charge D, because it had become final and definitive due to the failure of the prosecution to timely appeal.

For the Nencini verdict, the motivation report repeats all the charges, including Charge D, as they first appeared in the Massei report, so that Charge D includes the theft of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones. This inclusion was a violation of Italian procedural law CPP Article 648.

The Nencini verdict goes on to convict Knox and Sollecito of all the original elements of Charge D. This was therefore a violation of Italian procedural law CPP Article 649.

At any rate, the final, definitive verdict of the Marasca CSC panel acquits Knox and Sollecito on all charges including Charge D, except Charge B, carrying a knife, which is dismissed as past the statute of limitations, and thus in effect an acquittal, while reaffirming the conviction of Knox on Charge F, but only for simple calunnia with the Hellmann court's sentence (Nencini had convicted her of aggravated calunnia with an increased sentence). The Marasca motivation report lists Charge D as including the theft of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones. I am relatively confident that even if there had been a violation of Italian procedural law in listing the full original Charge D in Nencini, Marasca would likewise list it that way to achieve legal certainty. This would be consistent, in part, with the application of CPP Article 649, paragraph 2, which provides that a judge recognizing a case of double jeopardy must immediately dismiss or acquit that case. Marasca, however, does not fulfill the other obligation of CPP Article 649.2, which is to specify the incident of double jeopardy in the motivation report.
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Old 12th November 2017, 02:04 PM   #33
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On Nov. 11, for the 10th anniversary of MK's murder, Mignini appeared as a guest speaker at a public discussion for a book titled "Reperto 36" by Luca and Alvaro Fiorucci. This book, published in 2015, is about the MK case from a judicial perspective. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Mignini to reveal the "apology" TJMK alleges RS and Gumbel have to make to him regarding "Honor 'Bound". But it didn't. Hmmmm......

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Old 12th November 2017, 06:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Here's a little puzzle suggested by the questions of a poster on another forum.

Did the Nencini appeal court violate Italian procedural laws, CPP Articles 648 and 649, by provisionally convicting Knox and Sollecito on the original Charge D, that is, of the theft of 300 euros, 2 credit cards, and 2 cell phones from Kercher?

Examination of available court records make it clear that the Nencini court did violate those procedural laws.

Charge D alleged the theft, by Knox and Sollecito, of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones from Kercher.

Massei indeed acquitted Knox and Sollecito of part of Charge D (the theft of 300 euros and two credit cards) on the specification "because the fact [act of the crime] had not occurred" ("perche il fatto non sussiste"), under CPP Article 530 (the paragraph not being referenced, for those interested in that alleged controversy.)

However, Massei convicted them of the "residual" part of Charge D, the theft of two cell phones.

An appeal of the Massei verdict and sentence by the prosecution is available on www.amandaknoxcase.com. This appeal, by Mignini and Comodi, dated 13 April 2010, is available in Italian and English translation. There is no mention of the Charge D verdict at all in that appeal. The entire appeal is devoted to arguing that there should have been no extenuating circumstances granted to Knox and Sollecito by the Massei court in their sentence, and thus the sentence should have been increased. This suggests that the revision of Charge D to theft of the telephones only was finalized by the time the Hellmann court heard the appeal.

Only the residual part of Charge D appears at the beginning of the Hellmann motivation report, that is, the theft of two cell phones. The theft of the 300 euros and the two credit cards are intentionally omitted (the word "OMISSIS" [= omission, deletion] is substituted for those items). Hellmann acquitted on this revised Charge D with the specification "because the accused had not committed the act". Hellmann did not discuss the theft of the money or credit cards in the motivation report. These are certain indications that there was no prosecution appeal relating to Massei's acquittal for these two elements of Charge D.

Now the Chieffi verdict quashed all the Hellmann acquittals, including the acquittal for Charge D, only maintaining the conviction of Knox on Charge F, "simple" [rather than aggravated] calunnia against Lumumba. As far as I can tell from a brief review of each page of the Chieffi CSC panel motivation report, nowhere in the report are the charges written out. I am unsure whether the Chieffi verdict reinstated Charge D only for the theft of the two cell phones or whether it reinstated it for the full Charge D as it appeared in Massei. The CSC would not have the authority to reinstate the final and definitive acquittals on the two elements of Charge D, because it had become final and definitive due to the failure of the prosecution to timely appeal.

For the Nencini verdict, the motivation report repeats all the charges, including Charge D, as they first appeared in the Massei report, so that Charge D includes the theft of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones. This inclusion was a violation of Italian procedural law CPP Article 648.

The Nencini verdict goes on to convict Knox and Sollecito of all the original elements of Charge D. This was therefore a violation of Italian procedural law CPP Article 649.

At any rate, the final, definitive verdict of the Marasca CSC panel acquits Knox and Sollecito on all charges including Charge D, except Charge B, carrying a knife, which is dismissed as past the statute of limitations, and thus in effect an acquittal, while reaffirming the conviction of Knox on Charge F, but only for simple calunnia with the Hellmann court's sentence (Nencini had convicted her of aggravated calunnia with an increased sentence). The Marasca motivation report lists Charge D as including the theft of 300 euros, two credit cards, and two cell phones. I am relatively confident that even if there had been a violation of Italian procedural law in listing the full original Charge D in Nencini, Marasca would likewise list it that way to achieve legal certainty. This would be consistent, in part, with the application of CPP Article 649, paragraph 2, which provides that a judge recognizing a case of double jeopardy must immediately dismiss or acquit that case. Marasca, however, does not fulfill the other obligation of CPP Article 649.2, which is to specify the incident of double jeopardy in the motivation report.
The Marasca CSC panel motivation report does have these comments about the Nencini appeal court's use of the theft of the money and credit cards, showing that Marasca is aware that the alleged theft of these items never occurred, in terms of Italian final judicial truth; Marasca criticizes as well some other alleged items of evidence:

"Furthermore, it is glaringly illogical - and also scarcely respectful of trial facts - to reconstruct the motive of the murder {by the fact-finding judge, Nencini} on the basis of alleged disagreements between Kercher and Knox, intensified also by the grievance the English girl had towards the flatmate for having the latter let Guede into the house, who had improperly used the bathroom (page 312). The “truth” offered by the Ivorian in one of the statements made at his trial (and usable, as previously said, exclusively for what does not concern the responsibilities of others) is, instead, another. The young man was in the bathroom when, according to him, he heard Kercher arguing with another person, whose voice he perceived as being female, and so the reason of the quarrel could not certainly be the use he had made of the bathroom.

Also illogical and contradictory is the argument that, in an attempt to give substance to those disagreements (moreover belied by other testimonies), he {the fact-finding judge, Nencini} does not hesitate to retrieve the hypothesis of the theft of money and credit cards that Kercher would allegedly have blamed on Knox, in spite of the fact that Knox, as well as Sollecito, had been acquitted for the charge of theft, limited to the aforementioned goods, because “the fact does not exist” (page 316)."

Source: Marasca CSC panel motivation report, English translation, page 44.

Also, from page 55 of the Marasca motivation report, Marasca notes that Charge D only covers the alleged theft of the two cell phones:

"9.4.3. It can easily be observed that the conclusion that there was a lack of an evidentiary framework consistent and sufficient to support the prosecution’s hypothesis regarding the more serious case of murder certainly reverberates on the residual, secondary accusations, listed here, d) theft of mobile phones and e) simulation of a crime."

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Old 13th November 2017, 12:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I seem to remember reading that Hellmann regretted convicting Amanda of calunnia but I can't find it now. Does anyone else remember this?
I remember this as a rumor, but what was the source? I doubt it was a media statement by Hellmann himself.

Here's a statement from Hellmann after the Marasca CSC panel final acquittal; it has no mention of his regretting the calunnia conviction.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/hellma...march-30-2015/

I believe this is the original article for the above translation:

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/201...08/?refresh_ce
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:39 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.
IIRC, Mignini's first involvement with the MoF case was when he began looking into Narducci's death in 2001. If Douglas provided a profile of the killer in 1989 how could it possibly have been a deliberate contradiction of Mignini?
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:39 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
IIRC, Mignini's first involvement with the MoF case was when he began looking into Narducci's death in 2001. If Douglas provided a profile of the killer in 1989 how could it possibly have been a deliberate contradiction of Mignini?
All that argues for is the severe vindictiveness displayed by Douglas. It was so profound, he launched his campaign against Mignini 12 years before even hearing about the guy!!
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:22 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
All that argues for is the severe vindictiveness displayed by Douglas. It was so profound, he launched his campaign against Mignini 12 years before even hearing about the guy!!
I knew Douglas was good but this is just a whole new level of impressive!
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:17 AM   #39
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I knew Douglas was good but this is just a whole new level of impressive!
Don't screw with the international Masonic/US Media supertanker. If they can pay off Douglas, Moore, Hendry, Kassin, Dr. Gill, and all the leading luminaries in their respective fields - as well as cow every other expert who has refused to come forward to support not-a-doctor Stefanoni....

.... indeed, even get to the two experts who did say something nice about Stefanoni at trial, while at the same time slipping into their testimony such acknowledgments that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols (did I say that that had been the admission of those who had said nice things about Stefanoni?).....

It just shows the level of the conspiracy that led to Claudio Hellmann driving around expensive sportscars.

Buying off one of the Italian Supreme Court Chambers does not come cheap. Neither does buying off John Douglas, who had spoken out against Giuliano Mignini, 12 years before even hearing about him! As you say, TruthCalls, Douglas is that good, and it is only the Masons and US Media who have that kind of money to pervert the top.

No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:51 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
All that argues for is the severe vindictiveness displayed by Douglas. It was so profound, he launched his campaign against Mignini 12 years before even hearing about the guy!!
Douglas must be a mean SOB to hold a grudge against someone for a decade before he even knew the person existed.

Remind me not to cross Detective Douglas.
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