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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 29th November 2017, 01:12 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, I pointed this out in my post above. The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, which the author lists as the source of her "degree", is unaccredited and a "diploma mill" run out of Sri Lanka.
Yes you beat me to it! What comes of perusing the thread while cooking. You read one post and respond to it then you find someone else has already done so.

But an interesting comparison with the other reference above by Professor Martha Grace Duncan J.D. Ph.D. Professor of Law, Emory University. (Ph.D., Columbia University; J.D., Yale University)
http://law.emory.edu/_includes/docum...ulum-vitae.pdf
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Old 29th November 2017, 08:09 AM   #362
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Stefano Maffei interview

Originally Posted by bagels View Post
It's strange that no law professors have written about how strong the case was seeing as only delusional murder groupies believe otherwise
The only exception I can think of is in the linked article. The author interviewed Stefanon Maffei and quoted him on p. 61: "The case against Raffaele and Amanda is overwhelming; I’ve never seen so much circumstantial evidence! It’s not a very interesting case as a result.” On page 62, she quoted him again: “When the Court of Appeals acquitted, it claimed that if you take one piece out, the whole case falls apart. They took out the DNA from the bra clasp, which was contaminated, but DNA is not necessary to prove guilt.” She went on, "His comment puzzles me, because the Court of Appeals had not merely challenged 'one piece.'"

Professor Maffei's comment would make sense if applied to Rudy Guide; if you threw out the DNA evidence against him, you would still have enough evidence to convict him BARD twice over.
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:06 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
The only exception I can think of is in the linked article. The author interviewed Stefanon Maffei and quoted him on p. 61: "The case against Raffaele and Amanda is overwhelming; I’ve never seen so much circumstantial evidence! It’s not a very interesting case as a result.” On page 62, she quoted him again: “When the Court of Appeals acquitted, it claimed that if you take one piece out, the whole case falls apart. They took out the DNA from the bra clasp, which was contaminated, but DNA is not necessary to prove guilt.” She went on, "His comment puzzles me, because the Court of Appeals had not merely challenged 'one piece.'"

Professor Maffei's comment would make sense if applied to Rudy Guide; if you threw out the DNA evidence against him, you would still have enough evidence to convict him BARD twice over.
What is amazing, but sadly typical, is that Vixen would ignore Maffei, while making other arguments based on someone with a degree from a Sri Lankan, diploma mill!

Maffei is entitled to his opinion. I liken him to Paul Callan who as late as Feb 2014 was going on CNN arguing for the pair's guilt, and setting up the (now obsolete) extradition fight. The program back then I;d seen him on was with Steve Moore, and Callan simply handwaved away anything Moore said.

Yet by March and April, once the Supreme Court had acquitted the pair, Callan had switched 180 degrees. (Ok, ok that part is not Maffei.....)

But for some reason this case attracted one or two people like Callan and Maffei who imply handwaved facts away. However, I'll bet you that Maffei agrees with what even Maresca had said the day of the definitive acquittals, that this case is over.

Has anyone seen him argue for an international Masonic, US Media conspiracy to pervert justice in Italy?
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:10 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
The only exception I can think of is in the linked article. The author interviewed Stefanon Maffei and quoted him on p. 61: "The case against Raffaele and Amanda is overwhelming; I’ve never seen so much circumstantial evidence! It’s not a very interesting case as a result.” On page 62, she quoted him again: “When the Court of Appeals acquitted, it claimed that if you take one piece out, the whole case falls apart. They took out the DNA from the bra clasp, which was contaminated, but DNA is not necessary to prove guilt.” She went on, "His comment puzzles me, because the Court of Appeals had not merely challenged 'one piece.'"

Professor Maffei's comment would make sense if applied to Rudy Guide; if you threw out the DNA evidence against him, you would still have enough evidence to convict him BARD twice over.
Yeah but that seems to be a rather casually informed opinion, similar to Dershowitz. He hasn't actually written out a paper on why the evidence is so compelling which would require actually looking into the statements of Quintavalle and Curatolo, looking at the photos of the break-in, reading the Medical Examiner's actual findings etc etc.

I have never in the history of this case seen an esteemed individual set out to analyze why the case is strong. It's easy to just align yourself on the whim of the prosecution seeing as you'll be statistically right 99%+ of the time, but it doesn't add any insight if you're not willing to actually examine the evidence.

The prosecution's case is overwhelming if we take it at face value, evidence of multiple attackers, lying about when the police are called, eyewitnesses disproving alibis, etc etc. So yeah, he's right that the case on its surface isn't interesting. It's interesting because it's all false. It's perhaps the most false case ever presented in a modern court, and it's more interesting because it's not just false but transparently false. Like the evidence of multiple attackers is just something claimed. There isn't anything to back it up. Not a single thing. The prosecutor just said "there's evidence of multiple attackers" and that has made it so in the minds of everyone who just accepts that a prosecutor wouldn't make a demonstrably false claim in court.

This case is the ultimate litmus test really.

Last edited by bagels; 29th November 2017 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:15 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, I pointed this out in my post above. The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, which the author lists as the source of her "degree", is unaccredited and a "diploma mill" run out of Sri Lanka.
You are really ignorant - the author of the article is clearly drawing on common psychological findings in the matter.

She didn't claim to have carried out the experiments herself.
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:17 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
What is amazing, but sadly typical, is that Vixen would ignore Maffei, while making other arguments based on someone with a degree from a Sri Lankan, diploma mill!

Maffei is entitled to his opinion. I liken him to Paul Callan who as late as Feb 2014 was going on CNN arguing for the pair's guilt, and setting up the (now obsolete) extradition fight. The program back then I;d seen him on was with Steve Moore, and Callan simply handwaved away anything Moore said.

Yet by March and April, once the Supreme Court had acquitted the pair, Callan had switched 180 degrees. (Ok, ok that part is not Maffei.....)

But for some reason this case attracted one or two people like Callan and Maffei who imply handwaved facts away. However, I'll bet you that Maffei agrees with what even Maresca had said the day of the definitive acquittals, that this case is over.

Has anyone seen him argue for an international Masonic, US Media conspiracy to pervert justice in Italy?

Here comes the racism. So Stacyhs discovered the author of a random article - of which there are many - comes form...gasp...Sri Lanka.

Get over it.

The points she makes in her article are very good.
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:27 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here comes the racism. So Stacyhs discovered the author of a random article - of which there are many - comes form...gasp...Sri Lanka.

Get over it.

The points she makes in her article are very good.
PIP articles are found in like, the Harvard Law Journal, Forensic Science International, etc.

PGP articles are found on random WordPress blogs, tabloids, etc.

Interesting disparity.
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:43 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
PIP articles are found in like, the Harvard Law Journal, Forensic Science International, etc.

PGP articles are found on random WordPress blogs, tabloids, etc.

Interesting disparity.
The topic of Body Language is standard psychology. All the author of the article did was collate expert opinion on the psychology of lying. If you go to PSYCHOLOGY TODAY you'll find numerous articles about lying and deception and how to identify it there by academic psychologists.

So the author of the one I found at random is Sri Lankan and enjoys belly dancing, as if that makes her article null and void.

Disgusting.
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:08 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Using phrases like 'obviously' is a qualifier, and that alerts anyone with an ear for embellishment.

I did read a learned piece recently about the specific use of 'obviously' as a flag, but can't remember where.

Oh, dear. Isn't "clearly" a synonym for "obviously"? Maybe it's not in British English.

By the way, still waiting for those citations, including the one that supports your claim that "many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but."
and that "Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying."

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You are really ignorant - the author of the article is clearly drawing on common psychological findings in the matter.

She didn't claim to have carried out the experiments herself.
LOL! No one claimed she did. But the author never gives a citation for any of her lengthy list. She doesn't bother to give any supporting evidence of her claims. Sounds strangely familiar.
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:14 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here comes the racism. So Stacyhs discovered the author of a random article - of which there are many - comes form...gasp...Sri Lanka.

Get over it.

The points she makes in her article are very good.
You really should stop digging the hole deeper, Vix. From your link:

Quote:
Born in France, Frédérique has lived in Canada since 1980.
I said the unaccredited, paper mill "school" she got her worthless "diploma" from is in Sri Lanka. Try reading more carefully before you start slinging groundless accusations of racism. Tut-tut.

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Old 29th November 2017, 11:19 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, dear. Isn't "clearly" a synonym for "obviously"? Maybe it's not in British English.

By the way, still waiting for those citations, including the one that supports your claim that "many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but."
and that "Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying."



LOL! No one claimed she did. But the author never gives a citation for any of her lengthy list. She doesn't bother to give any supporting evidence of her claims. Sounds strangely familiar.
I can't be held responsible for your lack of knowledge. I gave you a random citation from Google. What is to stop you doing your own research if you have a genuine interest in the topic?

Once again we see your demand for citation is merely a facetious attempt by you to wilfully waste my time, as you couldn't care less about any citation I give you.
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:21 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You really should stop digging the hole deeper, Vix. From your link:



I said the unaccredited, paper mill "school" she got her worthless "diploma" from is in Sri Lanka. Try reading more carefully before you start slinging groundless accusations of racism. Tut-tut.
A Sri Lanka diploma is 'worthless' ?


How do you work that out?
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:02 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A Sri Lanka diploma is 'worthless' ?


How do you work that out?
I don't think she did, more like you did by morphing what has been said.

The Open International University for Complementary Medicines is located in Sri Lanka. That is about the extent of the relevance of Sri Lanka in this discussion.

You can read about this particular 'school' here. http://degrees4sale.blogspot.com/

It's a "degree mill" - in other words, if you want a degree just write them a check and you'll get it. In other words, citing a degree from this school does not afford one any particular credibility.

But you can keep ignoring the obvious and cry racism, disgust, etc. Sometimes you can be such a drama queen.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:02 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A Sri Lanka diploma is 'worthless' ?


How do you work that out?
You have severe reading comprehension issues. No one said Sri Lankan diplomas, per se, were worthless. However, diplomas from on-line diploma factories are worthless, even the ones from Sri Lanka.

9/10s of this thread is responding to your miscomprehensions.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:07 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here comes the racism. So Stacyhs discovered the author of a random article - of which there are many - comes form...gasp...Sri Lanka.

Get over it.

The points she makes in her article are very good.
LOL! It is not racism which is at play here, it is academic skepticism. Having a healthy dose of skepticism over a diploma which comes from a diploma mill, is well placed.

Then again, the nutters on your side of the fence have always played the race card, usually dealing it from the bottom of the deck. It is usually played when you've run out of things to talk about.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:20 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The topic of Body Language is standard psychology. All the author of the article did was collate expert opinion on the psychology of lying. If you go to PSYCHOLOGY TODAY you'll find numerous articles about lying and deception and how to identify it there by academic psychologists.

So the author of the one I found at random is Sri Lankan and enjoys belly dancing, as if that makes her article null and void.

Disgusting.
I didn't read nor care about whatever article you linked. Criminal cases are solved by evidence, forensic evidence, witness testimony, electronic surveillance, interrogations, etc. Not tea leaf reading whoever the tabloids are following around with their cameras.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:42 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The topic of Body Language is standard psychology. All the author of the article did was collate expert opinion on the psychology of lying. If you go to PSYCHOLOGY TODAY you'll find numerous articles about lying and deception and how to identify it there by academic psychologists.

So the author of the one I found at random is Sri Lankan and enjoys belly dancing, as if that makes her article null and void.

Disgusting.
Give two experts the same Dianne Sawyer interview video to watch and they'll often come up with completely opposite conclusions. For example, David Givens, Ph.D and the Director of the Center for Nonverbal Studies said that Knox is "extremely credible" and that ""She is not a deceiver, she is telling the truth, she is displaying emotional feelings about the police and the whole process," and "She seems relaxed and truthful. I don't see any deception indicated."
(http://www.kxly.com/news/local-news/...uage/177049763)

But another expert, watching the same video, came to a different conclusion:

Quote:
Although there are some scientific methods to test for veracity, there’s body language, there are facial giveaways, there’s statement analysis, and there is also intuition. When you watch Knox in her interview with CNN and with Diane Sawyer the thought foremost in our minds is the most basic and most obvious one. Are you a murderer, Amanda? And for my money, just watching Knox’s reactions, she’s not very convincing. If Knox is a liar, she’s not a very good one.
Oh, wait, that was Nick van der Leek in Extradition. And he's not an expert on body language. Mea culpa.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:54 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I can't be held responsible for your lack of knowledge. I gave you a random citation from Google. What is to stop you doing your own research if you have a genuine interest in the topic?

Once again we see your demand for citation is merely a facetious attempt by you to wilfully waste my time, as you couldn't care less about any citation I give you.
Oh, dear. That swooshing sound is the point going right over your head yet again. You gave a link in an attempt to support your case. The link proved to be a worthless blog by a woman who has no expertise in the subject nor does she provide a single citation in support.

Once again, you assume to know what I think. You don't. The fact is, Vixen, that you make claims over and over again and fail to provide any citations to support them when asked to do so. The fact is that you cannot provide these citations because what you claimed is false. You are employing the very common tactic of "the best defense is a good offense" which is used when there is no other defense.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:59 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A Sri Lanka diploma is 'worthless' ?


How do you work that out?
Oh, good lord. False accusations of racism and now this gem? Know when to stop digging the hole deeper.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:02 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is an interesting paper on the case written by an Emory University law professor.

What Not to Do When Your Roommate Is Murdered in Italy: Amanda Knox, Her 'Strange' Behavior, and the Italian Legal System

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3073208
Thanks for the link. I found the following particularly interesting;

A landmark study published in the Stanford Law Review in 1987 supports the proposition that innocent people do confess. In this study, Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet found that out of 350 miscarriages of justice, forty-nine were at least partially due to false confessions. In fact, false confessions were the fourth most recurrent cause of these wrongful convictions, preceded only by mistakes in eyewitness identification, perjury by prosecutorial witnesses, and “community outrage over a crime.”

Considering Curatolo and Quintavalle likely fall under either 'mistaken identification' or 'perjury by the witness', or both, and given the international focus and pitchfork & torch crowds outside the courthouse for each verdict announcement, it would seem to me that Amanda suffered from a wrongful conviction "perfect storm".
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:02 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I don't think she did, more like you did by morphing what has been said.

The Open International University for Complementary Medicines is located in Sri Lanka. That is about the extent of the relevance of Sri Lanka in this discussion.

You can read about this particular 'school' here. http://degrees4sale.blogspot.com/

It's a "degree mill" - in other words, if you want a degree just write them a check and you'll get it. In other words, citing a degree from this school does not afford one any particular credibility.

But you can keep ignoring the obvious and cry racism, disgust, etc. Sometimes you can be such a drama queen.
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:13 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, dear. That swooshing sound is the point going right over your head yet again. You gave a link in an attempt to support your case. The link proved to be a worthless blog by a woman who has no expertise in the subject nor does she provide a single citation in support.

Once again, you assume to know what I think. You don't. The fact is, Vixen, that you make claims over and over again and fail to provide any citations to support them when asked to do so. The fact is that you cannot provide these citations because what you claimed is false. You are employing the very common tactic of "the best defense is a good offense" which is used when there is no other defense.
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?

https://www.facebook.com/JudgeRinder...51672098413930
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:20 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Thanks for the link. I found the following particularly interesting;

A landmark study published in the Stanford Law Review in 1987 supports the proposition that innocent people do confess. In this study, Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet found that out of 350 miscarriages of justice, forty-nine were at least partially due to false confessions. In fact, false confessions were the fourth most recurrent cause of these wrongful convictions, preceded only by mistakes in eyewitness identification, perjury by prosecutorial witnesses, and “community outrage over a crime.”

Considering Curatolo and Quintavalle likely fall under either 'mistaken identification' or 'perjury by the witness', or both, and given the international focus and pitchfork & torch crowds outside the courthouse for each verdict announcement, it would seem to me that Amanda suffered from a wrongful conviction "perfect storm".

Poor logic. Just because some overturned convictions were due partially to 'false confession', it doesn't follow that Knox' calumny against Patrick and her confession she was at the scene of the crime falls into that category.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:30 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?

https://www.facebook.com/JudgeRinder...51672098413930
We aren't really commenting we're waiting for you (or any pgp) to give us a good reason to reject the court's final finding of not guilty.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:31 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?
This must rank as the lamest evasion to a citation YOU presented turning out to be a citation from someone with a fake diploma. Ever.

The reason why all of us here give citations is because by ourselves we have few qualifications.

Even you. You trash experts with world-reputations, and advance experts of your own with fake credentials.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:33 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?

https://www.facebook.com/JudgeRinder...51672098413930
Your penchant for twisting things is still in full force I see.

I don't believe anyone has ever cited me as evidence to support a claim regarding the validity of contested "sciences". If they did, it would have been as worthless as what you linked us to.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:49 PM   #387
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?
My apologies, Vixen. I thought you provided the link as a means of lending credibility to the pseudoscience of Body Language. Had you said the link was to an article written by an unqualified person merely offering an opinion then I don't think anyone would have bothered commenting on the credentials - or lack thereof - of the author. Next time be more clear about the purpose of links you provide.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:53 PM   #388
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So you claim people have to be qualified to write an article of general interest.

What are your qualifications for commenting on the Kercher case?

http://<span style="background-color...8413930</span>
Are you SERIOUSLY putting forth a TV court judge who is mocking a woman because she overused the word "obviously" in her statements as a citation that judges are trained to look for signs of lying and that using "obviously" is one of them? SERIOUSLY?
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:00 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The topic of Body Language is standard psychology. All the author of the article did was collate expert opinion on the psychology of lying. If you go to PSYCHOLOGY TODAY you'll find numerous articles about lying and deception and how to identify it there by academic psychologists.

So the author of the one I found at random is Sri Lankan and enjoys belly dancing, as if that makes her article null and void.

Disgusting.
Vixen thinks body language and speech patterns are an effective way of spotting liars. The most effective way of detecting liars is if someone says or writes something where there is conclusive proof it is a falsehood. For instance, someone appears nervous at an airport. According to Vixen just appearing nervous is enough to prove the man has lied. The custom staff suspect he is carrying drugs. The man denies this. The custom staff search his baggage and find drugs. The presence of drugs is conclusive evidence the man has lied.

When it comes to the lies of the PGP and all the liars they have supported, statement analysis and body language cues are not necessary because their lies are blatant and contradict the facts. In addition they put their lies in writing. At the end of the post is a list of some the numerous falsehoods Vixen has said in her posts. The falsehoods are blatant because they contradict the facts of the case. Among the falsehoods listed is that Stefanoni found 12 pieces of tissue on the knife. This is a blatant falsehood because there is no record of the prosecution saying there was any human biological material on the knife. When C&V tested the knife it was negative for the human species and the prosecution never disputed this. Another falsehood by Vixen is saying the defence were in full agreement there was a full DNA of profile on the knife. The extract below is from appeal document from Amanda’s defence for the Hellman trial. The extract below makes it clear Vixen told a blatant falsehood the defence fully agreed there was a full DNA profile on the knife. In addition the characteristics of the knife would have it made it impossible for any DNA to exist on the knife. The extract below shows Stefanoni told a blatant lie about there being hundreds of pictograms on the knife. Bear in Vixen who viciously attacks Amanda for lying admires Stefanoni who lied and committed perjury.

“The defense argues that the court should have excluded the DNA testing on Raffaele's kitchen knife. Dr. Stefanoni testified her job was to show objective proof by precise analysis, including use of scientific evidence as reflected by the IFIC. Her own notes reflect that the DNA on the knife blade was showing a finding of “too low, too low, too low ...” The testing done on the knife also showed it was not blood. Dr. Stefanoni initially stated that there was a finding of “a few hundred” picograms and she used real-time PCR for findings. When data was later provided to the defense it showed that it was actually under 10 picograms, and could even be ZERO. Dr. Stefanoni created her own form of LCN DNA to achieve the desired results. To make her finding she ran the test once, it destroyed the sample so no other testing can ever be done.

Dr. Stefanoni had to hand set the machine to get beyond the “too low” finding, which stopped her from testing dozens of other samples but pushing the machine to levels that are not permissible, but they provided her with the desired result that she needed on the knife. Dr. Stefanoni’s results show findings below peaks of 50 RFU which are not reliable”

Their industrial scale lying tells a lot about the PGP :-

• PGP viciously attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying whilst lying in their posts and supporting liars on an industrial scale which I detailed in this post http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11333243 which means PGP display disgusting hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying

• If the PGP have to resort to lying to argue their case, it means two things. Firstly, PGP don’t have any genuine evidence to base their arguments on and have no choice but to make things up. It can be seen in Vixen’s posts she habitually invents things. Secondly, the facts don’t support the PGP case. For instance, the fact there was no human biological material on the knife is major problem with the knife. To cover this up, Vixen has to lie that Stefanoni found human tissue on the knife. Having to resort to lying basically means the PGP don’t have a case.
• Viciously attacking someone for lying and complaining they have told numerous lies whilst the PGP lie and support liars on a massive scale is very strange behaviour. This is a sign PGP have serious mental health issues.

Falsehoods told by Vixen

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11982023
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:19 PM   #390
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Poor logic. Just because some overturned convictions were due partially to 'false confession', it doesn't follow that Knox' calumny against Patrick and her confession she was at the scene of the crime falls into that category.
Poor logic? Where am I outlining 'logic' in my post?

Of course, if you're of the opinion Amanda willingly claimed to have been at the cottage with Patrick then it's not possible to conclude the interrogation resulted in a false confession. But in my opinion, the interrogation resulted in a coerced statement; Curatolo and Quintavalle (and Capezzali) either mistaken in their testimony or perjured themselves; the media - local and international - put great pressure on the investigators to quickly solve the case and the crowds outside the courthouse were normally hostile towards Amanda. And so the point I was making was, based on my opinion, Amanda's wrongful conviction was the result of the top four causes noted by the author of the paper.

Now, should you ask me WHY I hold these opinions I will provide facts and logic to explain how I got there...
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:42 PM   #391
Numbers
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Could it be that the PGP are seeking "to evade constraints normally imposed by empirically verifiable facts, by expectations of consistency, and even by what reasoned inquiry deems merely credible. The more brazen or shameless, the more potent is the assertion" of guilt for Kercher's murder on to two innocent persons - Knox and Sollecito - who were in reality found definitively not guilty by the Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy.

(The words in quotes I borrowed from a WaPo article on another topic.)
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:55 PM   #392
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The problem I see with the PIP, is that they think they can manipulate people's mindset by way of advertising techniques words.

It really doesn't change the fact of the matter: it is an unavoidable conclusion that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did indeed torture, maim and kill that poor girl.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:57 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
My apologies, Vixen. I thought you provided the link as a means of lending credibility to the pseudoscience of Body Language. Had you said the link was to an article written by an unqualified person merely offering an opinion then I don't think anyone would have bothered commenting on the credentials - or lack thereof - of the author. Next time be more clear about the purpose of links you provide.
Thanks for your apologies. Body language is credible. Have a go at observing it.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:59 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
Vixen thinks body language and speech patterns are an effective way of spotting liars. The most effective way of detecting liars is if someone says or writes something where there is conclusive proof it is a falsehood. For instance, someone appears nervous at an airport. According to Vixen just appearing nervous is enough to prove the man has lied. The custom staff suspect he is carrying drugs. The man denies this. The custom staff search his baggage and find drugs. The presence of drugs is conclusive evidence the man has lied.

When it comes to the lies of the PGP and all the liars they have supported, statement analysis and body language cues are not necessary because their lies are blatant and contradict the facts. In addition they put their lies in writing. At the end of the post is a list of some the numerous falsehoods Vixen has said in her posts. The falsehoods are blatant because they contradict the facts of the case. Among the falsehoods listed is that Stefanoni found 12 pieces of tissue on the knife. This is a blatant falsehood because there is no record of the prosecution saying there was any human biological material on the knife. When C&V tested the knife it was negative for the human species and the prosecution never disputed this. Another falsehood by Vixen is saying the defence were in full agreement there was a full DNA of profile on the knife. The extract below is from appeal document from Amanda’s defence for the Hellman trial. The extract below makes it clear Vixen told a blatant falsehood the defence fully agreed there was a full DNA profile on the knife. In addition the characteristics of the knife would have it made it impossible for any DNA to exist on the knife. The extract below shows Stefanoni told a blatant lie about there being hundreds of pictograms on the knife. Bear in Vixen who viciously attacks Amanda for lying admires Stefanoni who lied and committed perjury.

“The defense argues that the court should have excluded the DNA testing on Raffaele's kitchen knife. Dr. Stefanoni testified her job was to show objective proof by precise analysis, including use of scientific evidence as reflected by the IFIC. Her own notes reflect that the DNA on the knife blade was showing a finding of “too low, too low, too low ...” The testing done on the knife also showed it was not blood. Dr. Stefanoni initially stated that there was a finding of “a few hundred” picograms and she used real-time PCR for findings. When data was later provided to the defense it showed that it was actually under 10 picograms, and could even be ZERO. Dr. Stefanoni created her own form of LCN DNA to achieve the desired results. To make her finding she ran the test once, it destroyed the sample so no other testing can ever be done.

Dr. Stefanoni had to hand set the machine to get beyond the “too low” finding, which stopped her from testing dozens of other samples but pushing the machine to levels that are not permissible, but they provided her with the desired result that she needed on the knife. Dr. Stefanoni’s results show findings below peaks of 50 RFU which are not reliable”

Their industrial scale lying tells a lot about the PGP :-

• PGP viciously attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying whilst lying in their posts and supporting liars on an industrial scale which I detailed in this post http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11333243 which means PGP display disgusting hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying

• If the PGP have to resort to lying to argue their case, it means two things. Firstly, PGP don’t have any genuine evidence to base their arguments on and have no choice but to make things up. It can be seen in Vixen’s posts she habitually invents things. Secondly, the facts don’t support the PGP case. For instance, the fact there was no human biological material on the knife is major problem with the knife. To cover this up, Vixen has to lie that Stefanoni found human tissue on the knife. Having to resort to lying basically means the PGP don’t have a case.
• Viciously attacking someone for lying and complaining they have told numerous lies whilst the PGP lie and support liars on a massive scale is very strange behaviour. This is a sign PGP have serious mental health issues.

Falsehoods told by Vixen

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11982023
I do things on an 'industrial scale'? Why, thank you.
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Old 29th November 2017, 04:47 PM   #395
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Thanks for your apologies. Body language is credible. Have a go at observing it.
Despite the sarcasm of your thanks, people with integrity and emotional maturity actually do apologize when they accuse someone of something s/he did not do. You know...like accuse someone of racism when they had, in fact, not said anything racist or claimed that degrees from Sri Lanka are worthless.

If body language is credible, then you agree with Dr. David Given of the Center for Nonverbal Studies that Amanda Knox is "extremely credible" and that ""She is not a deceiver, she is telling the truth, she is displaying emotional feelings about the police and the whole process," and "She seems relaxed and truthful. I don't see any deception indicated."
Finally progress!
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:02 PM   #396
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The problem I see with the PIP, is that they think they can manipulate people's mindset by way of advertising techniques words.

It really doesn't change the fact of the matter: it is an unavoidable conclusion that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did indeed torture, maim and kill that poor girl.
The problem I see with the PGP is that they think they can manipulate evidence by way of ignoring accepted international protocols for the collection and analysis of DNA, ignoring the presence of other male DNA on a bra claiming contamination transfer is not possible, claiming luminol positive samples are blood when TMB tests for blood are negative, claiming a knife without a trace of blood on it and that did not match the wounds was the murder weapon, claiming a very low copy trace of the victim's DNA is on that same knife even though that finding was not repeatable as required, ignoring that the same DNA could not have survived the necessary cleaning in bleach necessary to remove all traces of blood from said knife, etc. etc.. etc. The problem I see with the PGP is that they want need to ignore actual science and replace it with pseudo sciences like body language and statement analysis.

It really doesn't change the fact of the matter: it is a matter of ACTUAL fact that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were definitively acquitted of the torture, maiming and killing of that poor girl because they did not commit the act.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 29th November 2017 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:46 PM   #397
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The problem I see with the PIP, is that they think they can manipulate people's mindset by way of advertising techniques words.

It really doesn't change the fact of the matter: it is an unavoidable conclusion that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did indeed torture, maim and kill that poor girl.

Ummmm, no it's not. In fact, Vixen, there is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence that Knox or Sollecito participated in Kercher's murder. And in fact that is precisely why the Supreme Court threw out the case definitively, while excoriating the role of the police, prosecutors and convicting courts in the process of doing so.

In fact, Vixen, the exceptionally high likelihood is that Guede alone assaulted and killed Kercher, while neither Knox nor Sollecito had anything whatsoever to do with the murder or anything related to it.

Clearer for you now?
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Old 29th November 2017, 06:10 PM   #398
bagels
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The problem I see with the PIP, is that they think they can manipulate people's mindset by way of advertising techniques words.

It really doesn't change the fact of the matter: it is an unavoidable conclusion that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did indeed torture, maim and kill that poor girl.
We're not really trying to get you to change your mindset. That is what it is. People that haven't succumbed to Mignini's fantasy delusion can figure out this relatively straight forward case in about 5 minutes: none of the primary time stamped evidence matches Knox, it all matches a burglar with a history of two-story break-ins and knife wielding who was at the scene covered in blood with knife wounds on his stabbing hand and had no connection to the students. Like that's the case right there, it's simple.

We're interested in why you can't see that. What makes the PGP tick. There's lots of interesting things about you guys. For example, you don't seem to find it odd or strange that there are numerous PIP and they're all convinced of Amanda's innocence despite it being impossible to conceive of on your end. Or that she has very credible and esteemed supporters ranging from US senators to law professors to giants in the forensic field. Plus her two acquittals, including the final definitive one. And the lack of expert commentary on the prosecution's side, etc. None of it phases you or makes you question your beliefs. You don't seem to comprehend that one side in this case is suffering from utter delusion by the zero sum nature of the opposing sides or how can you be sure it isn't you. That's all fascinating and surprising to us and makes us curious.

Can we convince you the case was trash anymore than the 9/11 board on this forum can convince the truthers? No. But it's not what drives us.

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Old 29th November 2017, 06:56 PM   #399
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
We're not really trying to get you to change your mindset. That is what it is. People that haven't succumbed to Mignini's fantasy delusion can figure out this relatively straight forward case in about 5 minutes: none of the primary time stamped evidence matches Knox, it all matches a burglar with a history of two-story break-ins and knife wielding who was at the scene covered in blood with knife wounds on his stabbing hand and had no connection to the students. Like that's the case right there, it's simple.

We're interested in why you can't see that. What makes the PGP tick. There's lots of interesting things about you guys. For example, you don't seem to find it odd or strange that there are numerous PIP and they're all convinced of Amanda's innocence despite it being impossible to conceive of on your end. Or that she has very credible and esteemed supporters ranging from US senators to law professors to giants in the forensic field. Plus her two acquittals, including the final definitive one. And the lack of expert commentary on the prosecution's side, etc. None of it phases you or makes you question your beliefs. You don't seem to comprehend that one side in this case is suffering from utter delusion by the zero sum nature of the opposing sides or how can you be sure it isn't you. That's all fascinating and surprising to us and makes us curious.

Can we convince you the case was trash anymore than the 9/11 board on this forum can convince the truthers? No. But it's not what drives us.
Well said, Bagels. As I've often said, it's the psychology of the PGP that fascinates me about this case. The intense and extraordinary hatred directed toward a young woman they believe killed another young woman with whom they have no personal connection is not normal. Not normal. It is so extreme that they are still attacking,denigrating and demeaning her ten years after the murder in comment sections, in forums, and in groups dedicated to this purpose and 2.5 years after her acquittal. They simply will not, or more accurately, cannot move on from trying to convince everyone that they are right despite the definitive acquittal. Or, perhaps, they are really just trying to convince themselves of their righteousness rather than face the possibility that they were just plain wrong.

Meanwhile....over on TJMK, they're trying to convince themselves that "The Case Against RS & AK Is Getting Stronger & Stronger All The Time". It would be funny if it weren't just so sad.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 29th November 2017 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 29th November 2017, 08:56 PM   #400
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well said, Bagels. As I've often said, it's the psychology of the PGP that fascinates me about this case. The intense and extraordinary hatred directed toward a young woman they believe killed another young woman with whom they have no personal connection is not normal. Not normal. It is so extreme that they are still attacking,denigrating and demeaning her ten years after the murder in comment sections, in forums, and in groups dedicated to this purpose and 2.5 years after her acquittal. They simply will not, or more accurately, cannot move on from trying to convince everyone that they are right despite the definitive acquittal. Or, perhaps, they are really just trying to convince themselves of their righteousness rather than face the possibility that they were just plain wrong.

Meanwhile....over on TJMK, they're trying to convince themselves that "The Case Against RS & AK Is Getting Stronger & Stronger All The Time". It would be funny if it weren't just so sad.
Good luck on this effort.

As I have posted previously, we have no idea what motivates individual PGP. The possibilities include but may not be limited to: hoaxers; those with a non-skeptical or non-empirical approach to understanding events; those parodying the opinions of "real" guilters to generate controversy; and conspiracy theorists.

Perhaps looking into what is believed known about the psychology of conspiracy theorists would be helpful.

Here's an example of harassment by a conspiracy theorist. Of course, not all conspiracy theorists engage in such behavior or suffer from the issues of the one discussed below.

A psychologist who investigated false memory syndrome - associated with claimed recollections by adults of their allegedly repressed memories of being abused when they were children - was subjected to harassment by one or more conspiracy theorists.

"After criticizing the theory of recovered memory and testifying about the nature of memory and false allegations of child sexual abuse as part of the day care sex abuse hysteria, [Elizabeth] Loftus was subject to on-line harassment by [a] conspiracy theorist ..., who believed Loftus was engaged in satanic ritual abuse or assisted in covering up these crimes as part of a larger conspiracy."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus

This particular conspiracy theorist "posted a series of pseudonymous accusations alleging that individuals skeptical of the satanic ritual abuse moral panic were involved in a conspiracy to cover-up the sexual abuse and murder of children." Subsequently, this conspiracy theorist "was charged with stalking film director Steven Spielberg, and in 2002 faced more charges for making death threats against actress Jennifer Love Hewitt, and was committed to a state hospital until fit to stand trial. After a year in prison, [the conspiracy theorist] pleaded guilty to stalking and was released on probation."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Napolis

Last edited by Numbers; 29th November 2017 at 09:04 PM.
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