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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 27th November 2017, 07:56 PM   #321
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You can find a very good cataloguing of demonstrable proof of all the lies on this site here:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Or, go direct to court documents: Crini spells out in detail how Knox and Sollecito's alibis are actively fake.

Why would someone charged with a serious murder come up with a fake alibi, and then refuse to testify? Crini explains why: guilt.

But don't stop there. Even Marasca-Bruno comments on the fact the pair lied 'umpteen times'.

Raff had his claim for compensation thrown out because of his deliberate deception, evasion and fraudulent utterings.
I find Crini difficult to read so who knows, but apparently I missed this as I don't recall anything of the kind. Could you please provide me the actual quotes or point out exactly when he said this so I can grab the transcript and read it? Thanks.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:25 PM   #322
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Keeping up with Rudy Guede, part 2:

Rudy Guede, permesso premio: fuori dal carcere di Viterbo fino al 15 novembre


Rudy Guede, special permit: out of Viterbo prison until November 15th

VITERBO - New three-day permission for Rudy Guede, who is serving 16 years in jail for Meredith Kercher's murder in Perugia on the night of November 1, 2007. He left Viterbo prison to be hosted from the Gavac, the voluntary association that deals with prisoners and their families. It will have to go back to the cell on Tuesday, November 15th by the 17th.

According to the spokesman for the Center for Criminological Studies Daniele Camilli, it is the fourth special permit for the Ivorian after one in June and two for August and September (of which no news has been given so far). This time however, Guede had the permission to leave the facility. "You can do that," Camilli said to Ansa, "for an hour at breakfast, an hour and a half for lunch, and just for dinner. The rest of the time he spends inside the Gavac (under house arrest) where he studies for the master's degree in history and environment at the Roma Tre University ".

In July he graduated in prison with 110 and honors in Historical Sciences at the same University. Last night and today at lunch Guede went to two different restaurants in the center of Viterbo. "He chooses typical products," Camilli said, "and he only drinks Coca Cola. He likes to change restaurants because these are the first times after nine years he can eat out of prison. " Guede ate with his family and friends, like the teacher who taught him in Perugia. With him also were volunteers from the Center for Criminological Studies who follow [monitor?] him in the prison of Viterbo.

Source: https://www.blitzquotidiano.it/crona...embre-2586542/

Translation by Google translate with a little help from me.
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:34 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
This is fair comment within the context of the argument (being Stacyhs' assertion that 'statement analysis' is pseudo science). If you believe statement analysis cannot identify manipulation, persuasion and lies designed to deceive, then it is fair comment that you are an advertisers' dream and a sucker for hoax innocence campaigns, based on PR/advertising techniques. I see nothing personal there.

It isn't fair comment to claim, as Planigale did, from nowhere and apropos of nothing that as a professional accountant, I don't know the difference between zero and exempt VAT. What? That is a professional slur.
Vixen,
Quote:
Not really, if it was the bleach they bought for the purpose.

Quintavalle might have rung it up as "pizza", food being VAT exempt, whereas if he'd itemised it as bleach, he'd have output VAT to declare to HM Inspector of Taxes. <shrug>
Vixen not knowing that food is zero rated in the UK.

Zero rated means food is liable for VAT but the the local country can choose the rate in the UK it is zero. Zero rated means there is no assumption that Italy would also zero rate food, which it does not, there is VAT on food in Italy.

Whereas a VAT exempt item is exempt throughout the EU. That Vixen thought there was no VAT on food in Italy meant Vixen genuinely thought food was exempt. Vixen had obviously forgotten from her VAT exam the whole Jaffa cake case!
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:47 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Vixen,


Vixen not knowing that food is zero rated in the UK.

Zero rated means food is liable for VAT but the the local country can choose the rate in the UK it is zero. Zero rated means there is no assumption that Italy would also zero rate food, which it does not, there is VAT on food in Italy.

Whereas a VAT exempt item is exempt throughout the EU. That Vixen thought there was no VAT on food in Italy meant Vixen genuinely thought food was exempt. Vixen had obviously forgotten from her VAT exam the whole Jaffa cake case!
You are charged VAT on hot pizzas.

For goodness sake I was talking conversationally, not being technical with my accountant hat on. I said tax exempt because the average person on this board especially our cousins across the pond don't want to read puffed up jargon like 'zero-rated VAT'. They want the bottom line - 'exempt'.

I am actually a very good accountant before you start claiming I am not.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:52 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Keeping up with Rudy Guede, part 2:

Rudy Guede, permesso premio: fuori dal carcere di Viterbo fino al 15 novembre


Rudy Guede, special permit: out of Viterbo prison until November 15th

VITERBO - New three-day permission for Rudy Guede, who is serving 16 years in jail for Meredith Kercher's murder in Perugia on the night of November 1, 2007. He left Viterbo prison to be hosted from the Gavac, the voluntary association that deals with prisoners and their families. It will have to go back to the cell on Tuesday, November 15th by the 17th.

According to the spokesman for the Center for Criminological Studies Daniele Camilli, it is the fourth special permit for the Ivorian after one in June and two for August and September (of which no news has been given so far). This time however, Guede had the permission to leave the facility. "You can do that," Camilli said to Ansa, "for an hour at breakfast, an hour and a half for lunch, and just for dinner. The rest of the time he spends inside the Gavac (under house arrest) where he studies for the master's degree in history and environment at the Roma Tre University ".

In July he graduated in prison with 110 and honors in Historical Sciences at the same University. Last night and today at lunch Guede went to two different restaurants in the center of Viterbo. "He chooses typical products," Camilli said, "and he only drinks Coca Cola. He likes to change restaurants because these are the first times after nine years he can eat out of prison. " Guede ate with his family and friends, like the teacher who taught him in Perugia. With him also were volunteers from the Center for Criminological Studies who follow [monitor?] him in the prison of Viterbo.

Source: https://www.blitzquotidiano.it/crona...embre-2586542/

Translation by Google translate with a little help from me.

How lovely for Rudy. Has he expressed any remorse yet? Or will he be joining Mandy and Raff on the innocence tours and protestations of innocence?


Look how humane and compassioante Italian law is. In the USA he'd be serving life without parole.

So much for the PIP theory, 'Italy is a third world country' with a brutal police force and corrupt justice.

Numbers...?
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Old 28th November 2017, 09:17 AM   #326
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How lovely for Rudy. Has he expressed any remorse yet? Or will he be joining Mandy and Raff on the innocence tours and protestations of innocence?


Look how humane and compassioante Italian law is. In the USA he'd be serving life without parole.

So much for the PIP theory, 'Italy is a third world country' with a brutal police force and corrupt justice.

Numbers...?
Right. Using cutesy ad hominems is the key to presenting your case.

Right.
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
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Old 28th November 2017, 10:15 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How lovely for Rudy. Has he expressed any remorse yet?
He doesn't need to seeing as he got an official signed sealed and delivered plaque from the Italian government thanking him for his fake story about getting hot and heavy with his murder victim while on a date and then being sorry he had the ***** when she spontaneously erupted into a pool of blood.

I'm not sure how first world a justice system is that goes out of their way to reward criminals for no reason for knowingly lying about their crimes.
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Old 28th November 2017, 10:17 AM   #328
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Is the treatment of Rudy Guede in the Italian prison system exceptional?

"'Conditions in Italian prisons are still bad'

27 May 2014

On the eve of a deadline set by the European Court of Human Rights for Italy to ease overcrowding in prisons, the country’s jails still exceed the legal capacity by at least 15,000 inmates, according to figures from Antigone, the Italian prison watchdog.

Although some progress has been made to ease overcrowding – there are now 59,683 inmates in Italian prisons compared to 66,028 last June – the figure is still above the legal capacity of 44,329 places, while living conditions are still bad, Antigone was cited as saying by Il Fatto Quotidiano.

The watchdog found cases of “scabies” during recent prison visits, as well as a “lack of activities” for inmates and “a lack of space for rehabilitative treatment and socializing”.

In January last year, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that overcrowding in Italian prisons “violated basic human rights” and ordered the government to pay €100,000 to seven inmates who brought the so-called Torreggiani case over cramped living conditions. The court also gave Italy until May 28th 2014 to rectify the issue.

The court has received over 6,829 complaints relating to inhumane conditions, with a report by the Council of Europe in late April revealing that conditions in Italian prisons were worse than those in Serbian jails. ...."

Source: https://www.thelocal.it/20140527/con...l-bad-watchdog

A more recent article:

"Italy leads way on prison reform but system in crisis

14/04/2016

.... Take Regina Coeli in Rome, a 17th century former monastery. The first surprise is that everyone is out of their cells. One reform allows cell doors to stay open during the day. Other reforms have allowed the early release of more than 10,000 inmates to serve alternative punishments.

The European Court of Human Rights likes Italy’s reforms, indeed praises them as exemplary, but their application is patchy, and building programmes are stalled. One prisoner told us that in his block there were cases of scabies, and there were only two showers for 72 inmates. ....

Eighty percent of Italy’s prisons are over 100 years old. At least one dates from the 15th century. And what can be done within them? That is the real question, because there not enough activities for inmates, a problem recognised at ministerial level. As a direct consequence prisons are failing in their primary duty, to get criminals back on the straight and narrow. This is why Italy’s repeat offender rates are among Europe’s highest. ...."

Source: http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/14/i...stem-in-crisis
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Old 28th November 2017, 12:03 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How lovely for Rudy. Has he expressed any remorse yet? Or will he be joining Mandy and Raff on the innocence tours and protestations of innocence?


Look how humane and compassioante Italian law is. In the USA he'd be serving life without parole.

So much for the PIP theory, 'Italy is a third world country' with a brutal police force and corrupt justice.

Numbers...?
I can think of someone else who revels in calling people "cutesy" names in an effort to demean them. "Pocahontas" and "Little Marco" come to mind. Childish tactic.

No, Guede would not necessarily being serving life without parole in the US. Sentences for second degree murder (not premeditated) range greatly from state to state. For example, in Alaska the penalty is as little as 10 years. In Arizona it's not less than 10 years nor more than 25 years. In Arkansas, it's 6 to 30 years.
Once again, you are just making things up. Please learn that you will be called on falsehoods.

As for Italy's "corrupt system" aren't you and other PGPs always on about Hellmann being "bent" and being paid off for an acquittal? Aren't you the ones claiming Marasca broke the law when he acquitted RS and AK?

How ironic that the police who investigated the Kercher murder were given medals for their fine work. Work that was later shredded for its "stunning flaws, or amnesia, in the investigation and omissions in the investigative activity".

Last edited by Stacyhs; 28th November 2017 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 28th November 2017, 12:37 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How lovely for Rudy. Has he expressed any remorse yet? Or will he be joining Mandy and Raff on the innocence tours and protestations of innocence?


Look how humane and compassioante Italian law is. In the USA he'd be serving life without parole.

So much for the PIP theory, 'Italy is a third world country' with a brutal police force and corrupt justice.

Numbers...?
Gee, do you think the Kercher' believe Guede deserves humane and compassionate treatment. He sure didn't extend such consideration to Meredith as he was killing her.

In the US he wouldn't be in prison for life w/o parole but I'd like to believe he'd be doing more than 10 years of hard time.

And no, he won't be guest speaker at any innocence conferences since, unlike Amanda and Raffaele, Guede was convicted of committing a murder.
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Old 28th November 2017, 01:23 PM   #331
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I can think of someone else who revels in calling people "cutesy" names in an effort to demean them. "Pocahontas" and "Little Marco" come to mind. Childish tactic.

No, Guede would not necessarily being serving life without parole in the US. Sentences for second degree murder (not premeditated) range greatly from state to state. For example, in Alaska the penalty is as little as 10 years. In Arizona it's not less than 10 years nor more than 25 years. In Arkansas, it's 6 to 30 years.
Once again, you are just making things up. Please learn that you will be called on falsehoods.

As for Italy's "corrupt system" aren't you and other PGPs always on about Hellmann being "bent" and being paid off for an acquittal? Aren't you the ones claiming Marasca broke the law when he acquitted RS and AK?

How ironic that the police who investigated the Kercher murder were given medals for their fine work. Work that was later shredded for its "stunning flaws, or amnesia, in the investigation and omissions in the investigative activity".
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Gee, do you think the Kercher' believe Guede deserves humane and compassionate treatment. He sure didn't extend such consideration to Meredith as he was killing her.

In the US he wouldn't be in prison for life w/o parole but I'd like to believe he'd be doing more than 10 years of hard time.

And no, he won't be guest speaker at any innocence conferences since, unlike Amanda and Raffaele, Guede was convicted of committing a murder.
The above statements assume that Guede's crimes would be charged as murder in the second degree (or similarly) in a US state.

This assumption is not necessarily correct.

The laws many states consider a murder committed in the commission of another felony, or to advance another felony, chargeable as murder in the first degree, and thus eligible for the maximum penalty.

Guede committed murder to advance the US felony crimes of rape, robbery, and burglary.

Here, for example, is Florida law:

"Felony Murder

Florida requires the prosecution of "felony murder," which also leads to a first degree murder charge, when the defendant commits homicide while during the commission of a specified felony or an attempt to carry out a felony. State laws include a list of felonies that qualify a homicide as first degree murder. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and many other offenses, including the murder of another person. While the prosecutor must prove that the defendant intended to participate in the underlying felony, the state can proceed with the charge even if the defendant did not personally perform the killing. ....

Statutes


Florida Statutes Sections 782.02-782.36

Penalties and Sentencing


First degree murder is a capital felony in Florida. For a capital felony, the state may pursue the death penalty. If court proceedings at the sentencing stage lead to a determination that the defendant should not receive the death penalty, state law requires a sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole."

Source: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida...rder-laws.html
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Old 28th November 2017, 01:35 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here is an excellent article on why statement analysis is a pseudoscience. Included in this article is the following quote which included my favorite line which I've put in bold print:


http://skepdic.com/statementanalysis.html


There is a reason statement analysis is not allowed as evidence in court in the US, UK, Canada and elsewhere: it is not a proven science. It is pseudoscience.
It might be all new to you, but Content Analysis is perfectly respectable. Re Sapir finding the word 'certain' dodgy, many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but.

It's an interesting art. When I spent a couple weeks one summer selling encyclopaedias we were told to emphasis the word 'just' in front of the price (which was far from cheap!). Whilst few reputable sales men believe they tell outright lies, none the less their sales patter includes, 'overcoming the customer's resistance', pointing out the neighbours have bought one, claiming a major discount is available only for an extremely short time (i.e., now), offering easy payment terms, it is all the same technique that innocence fraudsters use, 'It was only a murder, what's the big deal', 'does he look like a murderer?' 'we can offer you alternative explanations', 'the client had their human rights breached' and the usual sympathy card stuff.

But you knew that already. You know perfectly well Knox and Raff's 'innocence projects' are sham.

You are a salesperson pushing your wares.

We can do a statement analysis and see that this is so.
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Old 28th November 2017, 01:40 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
No, it doesn't work like this, Vixen.

"Proof" does not consist of simply writing "you can find proof here, here and here". I want to see the actual documentary proof of your claims written by you on this thread. You're welcome (indeed encouraged, if not mandated) to point to primary-source evidence to support your "proof".

Have another, better, attempt.
Go to the court documents. Here's one: Raff's statement to the police (excerpt) 5 Nov 2007, but do read the whole thing for yourself.

Quote:
On November 5th 2007 at 22:40 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Perugia Police Headquarters. Before the undersigned of the Criminal Investigation Dept. Deputy Commissioner MONICA NAPOLEONI, Chief Inspector Antonio FACCHINI Vice Superintendent of Police Daniele MOSCATELLI, Assistant Chief Ettore FUOCO is present the above-mentioned who, to supplement the declarations made [November] in these Offices, in regards to the facts being investigated, declares as follows: [*A.D.R. = Question Answer = QA]
QA I have known Amanda for about two weeks. From the night that I met her she started sleeping at my house. On November 1st, I woke up at around 11, I had breakfast with Amanda then she went out and I went back to bed. Then around 13:00-14:00 I met her at her house again. Meredith was there too. Amanda and I had lunch while Meredith did not have lunch with us.
QA Around 16:00 Meredith left in a hurry without saying where she was going. Amanda and I stayed home until about 17:30-18:00.
QA We left the house, we went into town, but I don’t remember what we did.
QA We stayed there from 18:00 until 20:30/21:00. At 21:00 I went home alone because Amanda told me that she was going to go to the pub Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends.
QA At this point we said goodbye and I headed home while she headed towards the center.
QA I went home alone, sat at the computer and rolled myself a spliff. Surely I had dinner but I don’t remember what I ate. Around 23:00 my father called at my home number 075.9660789. During that time I remember Amanda had not come back yet.
QA I browsed at my computer for another two hours after my father’s phone call and only stopped when Amanda came back presumably around 1:00.
QA I don’t remember how she was dressed and if she was dressed the same way as when we said goodbye before dinner.
QA I don’t remember if we had sex that night.
QA The following morning around 10:00 we woke up, she told me she wanted to go home and take a shower and change clothes.
Virtually every word is a demonstrable lie.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:05 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I find Crini difficult to read so who knows, but apparently I missed this as I don't recall anything of the kind. Could you please provide me the actual quotes or point out exactly when he said this so I can grab the transcript and read it? Thanks.
Here's an excerpt of Crini's opening submissions to the Nencini Court (=Statement Analysis):

Quote:
CRINI: let's say we do a photography of the story because the photograph of the affair certainly does not belong to a process in which those who are supposed to be present, starting with Guede, tells of different things, in the sense two do not say anything about, except that one - as we have seen - explains in short having dreamlike memories of this story, this is one.
So we have a silent defendant, [Sollecito] who says he was in his house smoking a spliffs in front of the computer; another who says she has dream memories and accuses a person of which he is well aware is innocent; and then the third one who tells the things you know, that is, to say "I came home" ... etc.
I am sure you recall the expert IT evidence that there was no computer activity as claimed.

In other words, Raff gave the police a fake alibi.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:09 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The above statements assume that Guede's crimes would be charged as murder in the second degree (or similarly) in a US state.

This assumption is not necessarily correct.

The laws many states consider a murder committed in the commission of another felony, or to advance another felony, chargeable as murder in the first degree, and thus eligible for the maximum penalty.

Guede committed murder to advance the US felony crimes of rape, robbery, and burglary.

Here, for example, is Florida law:

"Felony Murder

Florida requires the prosecution of "felony murder," which also leads to a first degree murder charge, when the defendant commits homicide while during the commission of a specified felony or an attempt to carry out a felony. State laws include a list of felonies that qualify a homicide as first degree murder. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and many other offenses, including the murder of another person. While the prosecutor must prove that the defendant intended to participate in the underlying felony, the state can proceed with the charge even if the defendant did not personally perform the killing. ....

Statutes


Florida Statutes Sections 782.02-782.36

Penalties and Sentencing


First degree murder is a capital felony in Florida. For a capital felony, the state may pursue the death penalty. If court proceedings at the sentencing stage lead to a determination that the defendant should not receive the death penalty, state law requires a sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole."

Source: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida...rder-laws.html

Staceyhs incorrect (again). Rudy was not charged with second degree murder. He was charged with Aggravated Murder ( =Murder with Sexual Assault/Rape] which equates to the US First Degree Murder (= Murder with Felony].

Micheli decreed he did not commit the fatal wound as did Massei.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:19 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The above statements assume that Guede's crimes would be charged as murder in the second degree (or similarly) in a US state.

This assumption is not necessarily correct.

The laws many states consider a murder committed in the commission of another felony, or to advance another felony, chargeable as murder in the first degree, and thus eligible for the maximum penalty.

Guede committed murder to advance the US felony crimes of rape, robbery, and burglary.

Here, for example, is Florida law:

"Felony Murder

Florida requires the prosecution of "felony murder," which also leads to a first degree murder charge, when the defendant commits homicide while during the commission of a specified felony or an attempt to carry out a felony. State laws include a list of felonies that qualify a homicide as first degree murder. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and many other offenses, including the murder of another person. While the prosecutor must prove that the defendant intended to participate in the underlying felony, the state can proceed with the charge even if the defendant did not personally perform the killing. ....

Statutes


Florida Statutes Sections 782.02-782.36

Penalties and Sentencing


First degree murder is a capital felony in Florida. For a capital felony, the state may pursue the death penalty. If court proceedings at the sentencing stage lead to a determination that the defendant should not receive the death penalty, state law requires a sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole."

Source: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida...rder-laws.html

Jennifer Mee (now 26) is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. She was found guilty of luring Wall-Mart worker Shannon Griffin to an abandoned home under the pretense of selling him marijuana in October of 2010. Once there, two of Mee's friends robbed him at gunpoint - but the victim struggled and was shot four times. Mee was charged with first-degree murder despite not pulling the trigger.

Under Florida law, someone who participates in a robbery that leads to a death can still be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:22 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Go to the court documents. Here's one: Raff's statement to the police (excerpt) 5 Nov 2007, but do read the whole thing for yourself.



Virtually every word is a demonstrable lie.
What this proves is Raffaele is recalling a different evening. We know this can't be from the night of the murder because Popovic twice visited Raffaele's apartment and found Amanda there both times.

What's interesting is Raffaele and Amanda both had always said they were at his apartment together and among other things they watched the movie Amelie. Popovic's testimony and computer analysis confirms this. As this is commonly referred to as an alibi there would be no reason for Raffaele to suddenly change the story during an interrogation and then, once the interrogation was over, revert back to the story he had always given. PGP like to call this a lie (for which there is no motivation to do so) but the rest of us call it confusion over which night he's recalling.

IIRC, Raffaele had asked the police for a calendar but his request was denied. Why do you think that is?
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:32 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here's an excerpt of Crini's opening submissions to the Nencini Court (=Statement Analysis):



I am sure you recall the expert IT evidence that there was no computer activity as claimed.

In other words, Raff gave the police a fake alibi.
I recall the 'expert IT analysts' who fried hard drives and couldn't properly interpret metadata on a UNIX based system such as a Mac. Access to the Naruto cartoon file was also not found by the police experts but Raffaele's expert was able to recover it. That access was at 21:26 and was not disputed by the prosecution.

All Crini did was spin his own version of events much the same as Mignini and his infamous cartoon of the crime. He didn't prove a "fake" (I believe the correct term would be false, but whatever) alibi. He attempted to cut into the credibility of it but failed to produce anything to that end.

Raffaele WAS in his apartment and he WAS in front of his computer as he watched Amelie and a Naruto cartoon on the computer. Amanda was also proven to be there per Popovic, who also testified Amanda was in a very cheerful mood - not some drugged up psychopath preparing to slaughter her roommate.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:35 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The above statements assume that Guede's crimes would be charged as murder in the second degree (or similarly) in a US state.

This assumption is not necessarily correct.

The laws many states consider a murder committed in the commission of another felony, or to advance another felony, chargeable as murder in the first degree, and thus eligible for the maximum penalty.

Guede committed murder to advance the US felony crimes of rape, robbery, and burglary.

Here, for example, is Florida law:

"Felony Murder

Florida requires the prosecution of "felony murder," which also leads to a first degree murder charge, when the defendant commits homicide while during the commission of a specified felony or an attempt to carry out a felony. State laws include a list of felonies that qualify a homicide as first degree murder. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and many other offenses, including the murder of another person. While the prosecutor must prove that the defendant intended to participate in the underlying felony, the state can proceed with the charge even if the defendant did not personally perform the killing. ....

Statutes


Florida Statutes Sections 782.02-782.36

Penalties and Sentencing


First degree murder is a capital felony in Florida. For a capital felony, the state may pursue the death penalty. If court proceedings at the sentencing stage lead to a determination that the defendant should not receive the death penalty, state law requires a sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole."

Source: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida...rder-laws.html
I stand corrected. I was thinking in terms of non-premeditation therefore not first degree, but given the rape and burglary he might still have received life. Of course, each state is different and sentencing guidelines tend to provide significant latitude in rendering a sentence, but if we assume he was correctly convicted of burglary, rape and murder then yeah, he might have gotten life w/o/p.
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:54 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
What this proves is Raffaele is recalling a different evening. We know this can't be from the night of the murder because Popovic twice visited Raffaele's apartment and found Amanda there both times.

What's interesting is Raffaele and Amanda both had always said they were at his apartment together and among other things they watched the movie Amelie. Popovic's testimony and computer analysis confirms this. As this is commonly referred to as an alibi there would be no reason for Raffaele to suddenly change the story during an interrogation and then, once the interrogation was over, revert back to the story he had always given. PGP like to call this a lie (for which there is no motivation to do so) but the rest of us call it confusion over which night he's recalling.

IIRC, Raffaele had asked the police for a calendar but his request was denied. Why do you think that is?
There is no activity on Amanda's computer or Raff's.

Popovic claims should be taken with a pinch of salt, just like Papa Sollecito.

Alternatively, if Popovic and Papa are telling the truth, then Raff and Amanda are wanton liars, as set out in Florence and Supreme Court's written reasons rejecting Raff's claim for compensation.

You see, content analysis works.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:03 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Alternatively, if Popovic and Papa are telling the truth, then Raff and Amanda are wanton liars, as set out in Florence and Supreme Court's written reasons rejecting Raff's claim for compensation.

You see, content analysis works.
Not yours, it doesn't. If Popovic is telling the truth, which no court doubts, then what does that have to do with anything AK and/or RS ever said. It was Popovic who said she saw Amanda Knox at Raffaele's door at the time indicated.

Note how your "statement analysis" is never applied to the 1st Chamber's reasoning......
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:25 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
What this proves is Raffaele is recalling a different evening. We know this can't be from the night of the murder because Popovic twice visited Raffaele's apartment and found Amanda there both times.

What's interesting is Raffaele and Amanda both had always said they were at his apartment together and among other things they watched the movie Amelie. Popovic's testimony and computer analysis confirms this. As this is commonly referred to as an alibi there would be no reason for Raffaele to suddenly change the story during an interrogation and then, once the interrogation was over, revert back to the story he had always given. PGP like to call this a lie (for which there is no motivation to do so) but the rest of us call it confusion over which night he's recalling.

IIRC, Raffaele had asked the police for a calendar but his request was denied. Why do you think that is?
Raff needed a calendar to check when Halloween was and a major Bank Holiday in Italy for Day of the Dead and All Saints...? And Knox bending his ear about having to go out alone...?

Gimme a break.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:57 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Staceyhs incorrect (again). Rudy was not charged with second degree murder. He was charged with Aggravated Murder ( =Murder with Sexual Assault/Rape] which equates to the US First Degree Murder (= Murder with Felony].

Micheli decreed he did not commit the fatal wound as did Massei.
Vixxen (I'll return the favor of misspelling your name), I never said Rudy was charged with second degree murder. I was thinking that he was not charged with premeditated murder, which is correct. I did, however, forget that he was charged with aggravated murder. However, you are still wrong (again) that he would have definitely been given life without parole in the US. As Numbers said, in MANY, not all, states aggravated murder (or premeditated murder in the first degree) does receive the maximum penalty. However many states still do have less than life sentences with parole for first degree murder. The following are sentences for aggravated murder/murder in the first degree :

In Arizona:
Quote:
In Arizona, a person is charged with murder if an offender knowingly and intentionally causes the death of a person or unborn child. The murder must be premeditated. If an individual is found guilty of murder, there are three possible sentences: 35 years to life, life without parole, or the death penalty
Wikipedia
Guede was not charged with or convicted of premeditation.

WA D.C.:
Quote:
Between 30 years and life without parole (parole eligibility: 30 years if life without parole is not imposed)
Georgia:
Quote:
Death, Life without parole, or Life with parole eligibility in 30 years
Illinois:
Quote:
20–60 years, 45 years to Life if firearm used
For First Degree murder, inmates are eligible for parole 3 years before their sentence expi
Kentucky:
Quote:
Death Penalty, Life Without Parole, Life with parole eligibility in 25 years, Life with parole eligibility in 20 years, or 20 to 50 years
There are more states that do not necessarily impose life without parole for first degree/aggravated murder convictions. So, your statement is wrong(again).

As for Micheli and Massei, there is no possible way for them to know who struck the fatal blow. This is especially true since Knox and Sollecito were definitively acquitted of the murder. The two judges were relying on the kitchen knife being the murder weapon and Stefanoni's claim that she found Kercher's DNA on the knife blade.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:02 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It might be all new to you, but Content Analysis is perfectly respectable. Re Sapir finding the word 'certain' dodgy, many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but.

It's an interesting art. When I spent a couple weeks one summer selling encyclopaedias we were told to emphasis the word 'just' in front of the price (which was far from cheap!). Whilst few reputable sales men believe they tell outright lies, none the less their sales patter includes, 'overcoming the customer's resistance', pointing out the neighbours have bought one, claiming a major discount is available only for an extremely short time (i.e., now), offering easy payment terms, it is all the same technique that innocence fraudsters use, 'It was only a murder, what's the big deal', 'does he look like a murderer?' 'we can offer you alternative explanations', 'the client had their human rights breached' and the usual sympathy card stuff.

But you knew that already. You know perfectly well Knox and Raff's 'innocence projects' are sham.

You are a salesperson pushing your wares.

We can do a statement analysis and see that this is so.
ROTFLMAO! Once again, please stop telling me what I think or what I know. As usual, you are wrong. Citation please for "many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but." Not that I expect to actually see one. You are long on making claims but very short on actually proving them.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:05 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Vixxen (I'll return the favor of misspelling your name), I never said Rudy was charged with second degree murder. I was thinking that he was not charged with premeditated murder, which is correct. I did, however, forget that he was charged with aggravated murder. However, you are still wrong (again) that he would have definitely been given life without parole in the US. As Numbers said, in MANY, not all, states aggravated murder (or premeditated murder in the first degree) does receive the maximum penalty. However many states still do have less than life sentences with parole for first degree murder. The following are sentences for aggravated murder/murder in the first degree :

In Arizona:
Wikipedia
Guede was not charged with or convicted of premeditation.

WA D.C.:


Georgia:


Illinois:


Kentucky:


There are more states that do not necessarily impose life without parole for first degree/aggravated murder convictions. So, your statement is wrong(again).

As for Micheli and Massei, there is no possible way for them to know who struck the fatal blow. This is especially true since Knox and Sollecito were definitively acquitted of the murder. The two judges were relying on the kitchen knife being the murder weapon and Stefanoni's claim that she found Kercher's DNA on the knife blade.
You just don't get it.


As Guede was already charged with Aggravated Murder (=first degree) there was no requirement for the police to demonstrate premeditation.


What is it you are not getting?
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:11 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Raff needed a calendar to check when Halloween was and a major Bank Holiday in Italy for Day of the Dead and All Saints...? And Knox bending his ear about having to go out alone...?

Gimme a break.
Wrong (again). He needed to see check which day of the week it was, not the date.

Quote:
They asked if Amanda had gone out that night, and on the spur of the moment, I couldn’t say. Was November 1 a Tuesday or Thursday? I asked. Because I knew she worked at Le Chic on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Honor Bound.

You've used up your quota of "breaks" from us.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:18 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You just don't get it.


As Guede was already charged with Aggravated Murder (=first degree) there was no requirement for the police to demonstrate premeditation.


What is it you are not getting?
Oh, good lord. I never said the police did need to demonstrate premeditation. The point, which seems to be going right over your head, is that your claim that Guede would be serving life without parole in the US is not necessarily so. As I demonstrated by listing several states where he could well have received a non-life sentence with parole for the exact same crime. That is what you are not getting.

Still working on those two citations you've been asked for? Or do you need a few more days...weeks...years...?
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Old 28th November 2017, 05:07 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
ROTFLMAO! Once again, please stop telling me what I think or what I know. As usual, you are wrong. Citation please for "many judges immediately start sniffing a lie when people in the witness box use words like, 'Obviously'. It's often a flag they are trying to persuade the court a thing is obvious when it is anything but." Not that I expect to actually see one. You are long on making claims but very short on actually proving them.

Using phrases like 'obviously' is a qualifier, and that alerts anyone with an ear for embellishment.

I did read a learned piece recently about the specific use of 'obviously' as a flag, but can't remember where.

However, this piece from the internet is on a similar thrust:

Quote:
Many liars tend to start their sentences with a statement like "to be perfectly honest" or "quite frankly."

Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying.

I am surprised you are unaware of all this.

I can't help thinking that much of your 'astonishment' is faked.
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Old 28th November 2017, 05:13 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wrong (again). He needed to see check which day of the week it was, not the date.


Honor Bound.

You've used up your quota of "breaks" from us.
Stop it.

Quote:
Ognissanti (All Saints) is celebrated on 1st November, and the 2nd of November, commonly called "i Morti" in Italian, is the day dedicated to the dear ones who passed away.
Raff will have known for sure that that Ognissanti was a long weekend in 2007, and thus must have been Thursday and Friday.

Hello?

Make it stop!!!
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Old 28th November 2017, 06:15 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop it.



Raff will have known for sure that that Ognissanti was a long weekend in 2007, and thus must have been Thursday and Friday.

Hello?

Make it stop!!!
The police assured him Amanda went out and they know she went out and he could be thrown in jail if he kept lying and covering for the foreign girl he just met that week. So he naturally remembered the one day she did go out, which was just the prior evening, and thought they might be talking about that. Probably he thought that date didn't make sense but he gave the police what they wanted to make the abuse stop and they had him sign a pre-written statement they wrote. It's not a particularly interesting point.

Now if he was actually guilty it would be far more interesting to know why he immediately gave up his accomplice for practically nothing with his accomplice being the fresh face college girl who knows where her violent boyfriend kept the murder weapon and will cry all about what a monster he is to the cops. I guess he must have known Amanda would immediately blame her boss, and then get away with saying the cops beat the statement out of her because they forgot to record this grand incriminating confession, and the murder weapon forensic results would be disputed by the top DNA scientists in the world and then the mafia would call in all their favors to the top court and free him. That's really stupid but it's what you actually believe lol
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Old 28th November 2017, 06:26 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Raff needed a calendar to check when Halloween was and a major Bank Holiday in Italy for Day of the Dead and All Saints...? And Knox bending his ear about having to go out alone...?

Gimme a break.
Statement Analysis sez: no one asked him when Halloween was. He was asked which night Knox had gone out. He needed a calendar to be sure.

The police - Napoleoni - denied him one. Apparently they were more interested in a confused witness, rather than accurate information. He was threatened to be reduced to a bloody pulp. Fast forward to today where Napoleoni herself faces criminal charges, all be they unrelated.
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Old 28th November 2017, 06:39 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Statement Analysis sez: no one asked him when Halloween was. He was asked which night Knox had gone out. He needed a calendar to be sure.

The police - Napoleoni - denied him one. Apparently they were more interested in a confused witness, rather than accurate information. He was threatened to be reduced to a bloody pulp. Fast forward to today where Napoleoni herself faces criminal charges, all be they unrelated.
Aaaarggghhh!
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Old 28th November 2017, 06:59 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Using phrases like 'obviously' is a qualifier, and that alerts anyone with an ear for embellishment.
And this coming from a person who starts almost every unsupported and/or false claim with phrases such as "certainly, "undoubtedly", "without a doubt", and "as we know"! HOOTS!



Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I did read a learned piece recently about the specific use of 'obviously' as a flag, but can't remember where.
How very convenient.


Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
However, this piece from the internet is on a similar thrust:
Holy moly. You are now quoting from a blog whose author is described as a "self-help therapist" who has conducted self-improvement seminars in Canada and on Celebrity, Royal Caribbean and Princess cruise ships. While onboard, she also gives belly dancing lessons! She is also a
"Certified Stage Hypnotist" and who "Since 1989, she has offered palm reading services, including in-person or telephone readings, and parties. She is using palmistry as a psychological tool"!
Her "professional qualifications" come from the Open International University for Complementary Medicines which is a diploma mill for pay in Sri Lanka!

Double HOOTS!!

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying.
No, they are not. Studies have shown that police are no better at determining lies than anyone else although they believe they are.

Quote:
Research has consistently shown that people's ability to detect lies is no more accurate than chance, or flipping a coin. This finding holds across all types of people — students, psychologists, judges, job interviewers and law enforcement personnel (Personality and Social Psychology Review, 2006).
American Psychological Association.

According to a study done by Ekman and O'Sullivan (Who Can Catch a Liar?), law enforcement officers did no better than chance in detecting lies.
https://www.paulekman.com/wp-content...tch-A-Liar.pdf

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am surprised you are unaware of all this.
Having a degree in psychology, I am surprised you are unaware of all this.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I can't help thinking that much of your 'astonishment' is faked.
I can't help thinking that much of your "ignorance" is real.

Now, how about we add another citation for your claim that "Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying."? What training exactly do they receive?

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Old 28th November 2017, 07:04 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop it.



Raff will have known for sure that that Ognissanti was a long weekend in 2007, and thus must have been Thursday and Friday.

Hello?

Make it stop!!!
And here we go again with you telling us what Raff (and apparently everyone else, including me) "knows" for sure! Your ability to read minds is staggeringly impressive!

You seems to be under the delusion that everyone thinks clearly when being interrogated by the police who think they are guilty of a horrible murder. But I'm sure that the police were plying Raff with chamomile tea and cakes just like Amanda. It's obvious you have no clue what police interrogations can be like.

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Old 28th November 2017, 07:06 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Your ability to read minds is staggeringly impressive!
I beg to differ.
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Old 28th November 2017, 08:38 PM   #356
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This is an interesting paper on the case written by an Emory University law professor.

What Not to Do When Your Roommate Is Murdered in Italy: Amanda Knox, Her 'Strange' Behavior, and the Italian Legal System

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3073208

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Old 28th November 2017, 09:04 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is an interesting paper on the case written by an Emory University law professor.

What Not to Do When Your Roommate Is Murdered in Italy: Amanda Knox, Her 'Strange' Behavior, and the Italian Legal System

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3073208
It's strange that no law professors have written about how strong the case was seeing as only delusional murder groupies believe otherwise
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:35 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
It's strange that no law professors have written about how strong the case was seeing as only delusional murder groupies believe otherwise
If you want to read about how strong the case was, you'll have to go to TJMK and PMF. Their "main contributors" (what's left of them anyway) are still busy churning out their alternate reality. Not a law professor among them, but hey...
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:53 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Using phrases like 'obviously' is a qualifier, and that alerts anyone with an ear for embellishment.

I did read a learned piece recently about the specific use of 'obviously' as a flag, but can't remember where.

However, this piece from the internet is on a similar thrust:




Police, barristers and judges are trained to be alert to lying.

I am surprised you are unaware of all this.

I can't help thinking that much of your 'astonishment' is faked.
So a brief bio of the author,

Quote:
As a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist and a Certified Stage Hypnotist, Frédérique is a member of the Association of Ethical and Professional Hypnotherapists.

Since 1989, she has offered palm reading services, including in-person or telephone readings, and parties. She is using palmistry as a psychological tool.

Frédérique’s studies, teaching, and numerous healings using Universal Energy techniques led her to a designation of Doctor of Traditional Medicine (M.D. (T.M)) with the Open International University for Complementary Medicines.

Trained in ballet and modern dance, Frédérique now teaches belly dance classes at bachelorette or birthday parties, as well as on cruise ships.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:41 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So a brief bio of the author,
Yes, I pointed this out in my post above. The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, which the author lists as the source of her "degree", is unaccredited and a "diploma mill" run out of Sri Lanka.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 29th November 2017 at 12:59 AM.
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