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Old 15th November 2017, 08:57 AM   #121
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Why don't you watch them now? You're just wasting your time trying to persuade anyone here of the existence of your magic world.
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:59 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have posted these stories on my other thread. I got a message from a brother that died in the war as a baby and my mother had never told me.
But I went home and asked her and she said it was true. I was even told his name.
I would love to hear a recording of this encounter. There's footage of James Randi talking to someone who had a reading, and his recollection was that the psychic had given him about 6 names, all of which were phonetically similar, like "Mandy" and "Sandy". However, the session had been recorded and the psychic had actually given him 37 names (as well as two relevant letters of the alphabet that she said names might start with), most of which were very different from each other.

I know you don't like hearing this, but it's very likely that what you remember is not what happened.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:00 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't know.
How can you not know? He does readings etc. at Leigh Spiritualist Temple - surely they wouldn't have a fake there?
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:01 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have been saying the same thing for several years, you can go back and see that my story has not changed.
That particular story has not. There have been two occasions very recently, however, where people have demonstrated that other stories that you have told have changed. I'm one of the posters who pointed one of them out, and it wasn't a small detail, but something fundamental.

As it seems you do with most uncomfortable or unwelcome facts, you ignored this.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:16 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't lie, and I remember some of what the medium said quite clearly, because it made an impression on me. At the time of getting the message I did not believe a word of it, but I went home and asked my mother about it about an hour after getting the message, and she confirmed it. I was surprised, so it impressed itself on my memory.
Yes, that's how people think memory works. But it's not. There was a study where people were interviewed in the week after the 9/11 attacks, then again a year later, then again 3 years later[/url]. By a year after the event, people were getting details like how they learnt of the attack right only 63% of the time. In the third survey it was down to 57%. Even for something like how many planes were involved - something that's common knowledge and with a lot of outside corroboration, people's recollections were only consistent 81% of the time after three years. Or, to put it another way, 19% of people's answer to the question of how many planes there were had changed over the course of 3 years. Even when it came to recalling where they were when they learnt of the news, people were only right 83% of the time by 3 years after the event.

I know this is not what you want to think, but it's true. Your memory is likely wrong, and the fact that you had an emotional reaction means that your memory is less likely to be correct, not more.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:18 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have been saying the same thing for several years, you can go back and see that my story has not changed.
And you have been given plausible alternative explanations which do not require invoking the supernatural. You have no way to rule these alternative explanations out, so you are not justified in concluding that this particular medium was genuine.

It has been explained to you several times what would be adequate evidence for such a conclusion. All attempts to obtain such evidence have had negative results. As long as you simply ignore these facts no rational person is going to take your claims seriously.
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Last edited by Pixel42; 15th November 2017 at 09:28 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:26 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I know there are fake mediums, and for me Tarot cards are bunk.
I don't have experience of mediums using Tarot but I would regard them as suspicious if they did.
Ok, so one of the visiting mediums on November 9th for the Dartford church you named was Angela Brigenshaw.
http://www.thelightuponthehill.org.uk/

When I searched her name, I found a reference to her teaching about tarot cards.
https://www.facebook.com/events/797221560294478/

It's from 2014, but still.

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Old 15th November 2017, 09:50 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why don't you watch them now? You're just wasting your time trying to persuade anyone here of the existence of your magic world.
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met. He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:52 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That particular story has not. There have been two occasions very recently, however, where people have demonstrated that other stories that you have told have changed. I'm one of the posters who pointed one of them out, and it wasn't a small detail, but something fundamental.

As it seems you do with most uncomfortable or unwelcome facts, you ignored this.
No, I simply used the wrong words. I originally said I sold some books, then I said I threw them out. But I meant the same thing. I sold them.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:58 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I would love to hear a recording of this encounter. There's footage of James Randi talking to someone who had a reading, and his recollection was that the psychic had given him about 6 names, all of which were phonetically similar, like "Mandy" and "Sandy". However, the session had been recorded and the psychic had actually given him 37 names (as well as two relevant letters of the alphabet that she said names might start with), most of which were very different from each other.

I know you don't like hearing this, but it's very likely that what you remember is not what happened.
No, she said his name once without any preamble. It was Lawrence, which is a distinctive name.
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Old 15th November 2017, 09:59 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How can you not know? He does readings etc. at Leigh Spiritualist Temple - surely they wouldn't have a fake there?
I would not have thought so.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:02 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met.
Exactly. Just as I don't see how David Copperfield can appear to saw himself in half and put himself back together again. But both Derren Brown and David Copperfield are clear that they are stage magicians. They use stage magic, not supernatural abilities, to create their tricks.

So "I don't know how it could be done" is not justification for concluding "it must be supernatural".

Quote:
He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
Few stage magicians do.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:13 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met. He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
He is a magician, like Paul Daniels making an elephant disappear it's a trick, "mentalism" is a subset of magic.

Which is one of the reasons a lot of magicians have been "debunkers" - they see "psychics" performing the same tricks as they do on stage.... Strangely when the psychics are prevented from doing those tricks the psychic abilities disappear.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:15 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I would not have thought so.
What we have then is a medium that passes your test for authentication doing something you consider bunk. That really doesn't give you pause for thought?

And I see someone has found another example above of the same.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:19 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No, I had a number of messages in the two years, but they were not filled with facts I could be sure of, or that stood out in my mind. They were just general advice. It was only when I got very detailed messages that told me facts even I did not know about my family that I was convinced.
Translation, nothing but Barnham statements until a good enough fact/clue got dropped in conversation and fed back, or a random throw away remark happened to get a cold readable response.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:41 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It was Lawrence, which is a distinctive name.
In 1944 "Lawrence" was one of the top 100 names given to baby boys in England.

http://www.britishbabynames.com/blog...4-to-2009.html

By 2009 it had dropped more than 300 places in popularity. But in 1944 it was definitely not rare or unusual.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:44 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met. He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
It? There are two.

You've missed the point entirely. A magician has fooled a bunch of professional "mediums". If professional mediums can be fooled by a trickster, then so can you. This is the full and complete explanation for your belief in the supernatural.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:46 AM   #138
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Of course not all mediums are actually aware they're fake. Some manage to train themselves to perform cold readings without realising how they're doing it and sincerely believe in their own 'gift'.
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Old 15th November 2017, 10:50 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It? There are two.

You've missed the point entirely. A magician has fooled a bunch of professional "mediums". If professional mediums can be fooled by a trickster, then so can you. This is the full and complete explanation for your belief in the supernatural.
I watched the video, 'messiah' which pixel42 posted for me, but I cannot watch the other one as all I see is a black screen.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:00 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
By the way I forgot to say that to avoid cold reading you should keep a straight face if given a message, and only answer yes or no to questions.
The cold reading begins before any questions are even asked. There are many books and videos showing how it is done.

https://youtu.be/2lgK3A7AUSY

And answering questions, ANY questions, even with yes/no answers is feeding the "medium" info they then use to make you think they "know" about "secret" thoughts/events in your life.

Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
If the message is asking a question then it is a question and not a message. This is your first and most obvious sign it is a cold reading. Truly skilled cold readers will disguise their questions.

Every time you say yes or no you are conveying information that the psychic/medium did not yet have.
^This
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:12 AM   #141
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All the negative views of mediums are all very well. But I know I received a spirit message directly into my own mind, and it accurately told me of a future event.
I have recounted this many times. It is one of the ways I am sure there is a spirit world.
I have had my own experience not dependent on mediums.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:14 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met. He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
He's a mentalist. He uses tricks to create the appearance of the supernatural and is absolutely clear and unambiguous about this. He is particularly skilled but nothing he does is not avaliable to anyone with the interest in learning to do it.

This weekend I was was working at a show and there was a magician there, we got talking because I have an amateur interest and keep a couple of tricks in my pocket to play with when I'm bored (Hi Jamie!) he was doing three tricks which fooled all the people I work with, one he volunteered an explanation to, one was similar to one I've performed myself and I was able to figure out the differences, and the last one? Two minutes Google searching found me the trick for sale and comments in the reviews gave me a enough of a clue to figure it out. I had two tricks which also fooled everyone. All these were basic hobbyist level tricks but between us hundreds of people were fooled. I won't claim everyone was, one of the unwritten rules among magicians is that you don't spoil each other's tricks* but the reactions from the audience were great. Far more obscure tricks are avaliable if you go to specialist websites, mentalism tricks have been formally devised, developed and disseminated since before the Victorians.

The defining feature of any decent trick is the mark can't see how it's possible, so frankly your belief that something that happened could not have a rational explanation (just take a second to think about that phrase) does not convince me in the slightest. Doing things you don't believe are possible is quite literally the job description of all magicians, from Derrin Brown down to the guy that does your five year old's birthday party. The first rule of doing magic tricks is give the audience half a chance and they will convince themselves, just as you apparently have (and I'm not talking about the Derrin Brown video).

*I'd be willing to bet good money that the same rule exists among 'mediums' too. Right 'Faker Derrick '?
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:19 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All the negative views of mediums are all very well. But I know I received a spirit message directly into my own mind, and it accurately told me of a future event.
I have recounted this many times. It is one of the ways I am sure there is a spirit world.
I have had my own experience not dependent on mediums.
You heard a voice, which is not that unusual for anyone, and certainly not for a diagnosed schizophrenic. You later had a small win on the lottery. Your memory, which may or may not be accurate, is that the two events were associated. That's it. It is not evidence for a spirit world, let alone conclusive evidence.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:20 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Exactly. Just as I don't see how David Copperfield can appear to saw himself in half and put himself back together again. But both Derren Brown and David Copperfield are clear that they are stage magicians. They use stage magic, not supernatural abilities, to create their tricks.

So "I don't know how it could be done" is not justification for concluding "it must be supernatural".


Few stage magicians do.
That would spoil the fun. I used to do card tricks at parties that made people gasp and applaud. It was purely for fun.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:32 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All the negative views of mediums are all very well. But I know I received a spirit message directly into my own mind, and it accurately told me of a future event.
I have recounted this many times. It is one of the ways I am sure there is a spirit world.
I have had my own experience not dependent on mediums.
You have also told us that you have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. This brings all your recollections into question.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:33 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched the video, 'messiah' which pixel42 posted for me, but I cannot watch the other one as all I see is a black screen.
And what about the other sentence of mine you quoted? How about commenting on that.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:40 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And what about the other sentence of mine you quoted? How about commenting on that.
Like I said in my last post, my beliefs do not entirely depend upon what I have been told by mediums.
Even if all mediums are fakes, I still have my own (limited) personal experiences.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:47 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All the negative views of mediums are all very well. But I know I received a spirit message directly into my own mind, and it accurately told me of a future event.
I have recounted this many times. It is one of the ways I am sure there is a spirit world.
I have had my own experience not dependent on mediums.
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
You heard a voice, which is not that unusual for anyone, and certainly not for a diagnosed schizophrenic. You later had a small win on the lottery. Your memory, which may or may not be accurate, is that the two events were associated. That's it. It is not evidence for a spirit world, let alone conclusive evidence.
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
You have also told us that you have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. This brings all your recollections into question.
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Like I said in my last post, my beliefs do not entirely depend upon what I have been told by mediums.
Even if all mediums are fakes, I still have my own (limited) personal experiences.
Quoted for relevance. Although I doubt the message will be listened to.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:51 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Quoted for relevance. Although I doubt the message will be listened to.
I have fifty years experience of dealing with schizophrenia, in different forms.
If it has done anything to me it has made me mentally stronger.
I know my brain cannot tell me what to think. I am the thinker, and I can dismiss delusions and hallucinations by applying reason to them.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:57 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...... Even if all mediums are fakes,
They are. I'm glad you are beginning to see that.

Quote:
I still have my own (limited) personal experiences.
A diagnosis of schizophrenia should be enough to indicate caution, even to the person who had the experience. Our own mind, memory and "experience" is something that none of us.....none of us........can rely on, and schizophrenics even less so.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
.........I can dismiss delusions and hallucinations by applying reason to them.
You are quite clearly demonstrating that this is an unequal battle.
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Last edited by MikeG; 15th November 2017 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 15th November 2017, 12:39 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I watched it, and I don't see how he could be that accurate with people he never met. He does not say how he knew, or how he did the tricks.
Wonderful. I'm glad that you admit that. Because it's true that he hadn't met them, and it's true that they are tricks. What you're admitting here is that you would be convinced by him, had he attempted to trick you, because you cannot work out how he did the tricks.

That's a fantastic first step.

And it's not even what the point of posting the video was. The point of the video is to dispute your claim that those who are psychic can tell a faker. The first group of people are psychic, and the last person is a spiritualist medium. All of them are well-respected and seen as authorities in their fields. Yet he fooled them with trickery.

So your assertion that people such as them could not be fooled by fakes is demonstrably false.
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Old 15th November 2017, 12:40 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No, I simply used the wrong words. I originally said I sold some books, then I said I threw them out. But I meant the same thing. I sold them.
That's not what I'm talking about. I am unsurprised that you have forgotten.
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Old 15th November 2017, 12:42 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No, she said his name once without any preamble. It was Lawrence, which is a distinctive name.
I believe that you believe this. Scientific evidence, as well as knowledge of how mediums work, suggest that you are likely wrong.
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Old 15th November 2017, 12:43 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It? There are two.
The first was just the first 10 minutes of the other, so it's of no matter that he's just watched the longer video.
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Old 15th November 2017, 01:14 PM   #155
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Some of the philosophy of spiritualism.

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/boo...oframadahn.htm
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Old 15th November 2017, 01:43 PM   #156
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Irrelevant, Scorpion. You may as well talk about the philosophy of the man-in-the-moon. Spiritualism is a fraud, and everyone involved is deluded or a fraudster.
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Old 15th November 2017, 01:48 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What makes you think we haven't?
This^
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Old 15th November 2017, 01:52 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some of the philosophy of spiritualism.

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/boo...oframadahn.htm
What has that got to do with anything. Are you trying to change the topic you started?
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Old 15th November 2017, 02:10 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What has that got to do with anything. Are you trying to change the topic you started?
Cosmic Yak asked me about spiritualist philosophy in post 89
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 15th November 2017, 02:14 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Cosmic Yak asked me about spiritualist philosophy in post 89
This was Cosmic Yak's question:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
You told us one of the amazing revelations was that you weren't happy with a painting you had recently done.
What was the 'deeper philosophy' embedded in that message?
A link to unsupported blather is not an answer to that question.
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