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Old 15th November 2017, 02:20 PM   #161
Zivan
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All the negative views of mediums are all very well. But I know I received a spirit message directly into my own mind, and it accurately told me of a future event.
I have recounted this many times. It is one of the ways I am sure there is a spirit world.
I have had my own experience not dependent on mediums.
I had a similar spirit message given to me about my car (like you had about your motorbike) which accurately told me of a future event.

I live alone in a rural area. A couple months ago I started to get into my car to drive about 2 hours away. But first I was going to drive to the grocery store about 15 minutes away.

Before getting into the car I suddenly had the idea to check the water and oil. When I started to open the hood/bonnet there was an instant spirit message directly into my mind that very clearly said, "No! Do not open it here. Wait until you drive to where other people are around before you open it".

I did not understand why the spirits gave me that message (it seemed rather odd) but I obeyed because it was so strong.

I drove the 15 minutes to the store. Once there I opened the hood/bonnet to check the water & oil. Then I closed the hood/bonnet.

But it did not close completely. It stayed open a couple inches and would not latch shut. It was impossible to drive like that because once on the road the wind would have blown it open and caused an accident. Possibly fatal.

Since I had followed the spirit advice and waited until I was not alone to open it, I was able to go into the store and ask for help. Two guys came out to look at it but did not know what to do. They both agreed it was undrivable like that. One offered to tie it down with wire but admitted it would be risky and not be safe. The other one pointed out a small garage across the street down a bit, and said I could very slowly drive the car there and the mechanic could help. (I had noticed the garage before but it appeared deserted and empty. I thought it was closed down and would not have gone there).

I slowly drove to the garage. The mechanic stopped what he was doing and came to look. He immediately said, "I see you have a problem. You can't drive it like this it is too dangerous!"

I watched as he started taking things apart and found a broken spring inside the latch. He replaced the broken spring, fixed the latch, put everything back together, the hood/bonnet closed perfectly and I was able to drive safely away.

The spirits saved my life with the message they gave me!

But, is that actually what happened?

No.

There is a simple, mundane explanation.

I got the "sudden idea" to check the water & oil because the car is 25 years old and the water/oil gauges do not work. I know nothing about cars except to check/fill the water/oil, check air pressure, and jump a a battery when needed. That is all. Because it is an old car, I frequently check those things.

What about the "spirit message" that was put "directly into my mind" to not check it while I was alone and to wait until I was around people to help? I check the water/oil all the time (and do not need anyone around to help) and I never got a "spirit message" before!

Simple.

It was not a "spirit message directly into my own mind". It was from my subconscious mind to my conscious mind.

As others have repeatedly pointed out, our subconscious recieves countless bits of data constantly which we filter out and only those bits relevant to us at the time are aware to our conscious mind.

Obviously, the previous time I had checked the water/oil my subconscious noted that there was something wrong with the latch. But my conscious mind filtered it out because I know virtually nothing about cars and since the hood/bonnet seemed to closed okay it was not relevant to me at that time.

But the info was still in my subconscious and surfaced to my conscious when it became relevant. Since I know nothing of car mechanics I did not notice anything wrong, but my subconscious sent the only warning I understood, "Something is wrong, ask for help".

TL;DR

Simple explanation. Subconscious to conscious info.
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Old 15th November 2017, 02:34 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have been saying the same thing for several years, you can go back and see that my story has not changed.

Your story changes all the time Scorpion as observed by myself and others here. Memory is not a consistent nor reliable tool for establishing the veracity of events. Trial lawyers are aware of this as shown here:

Quote:
Consider the following quote from Levin and Cramer's Problems and Materials on Trial Advocacy:
Eyewitness testimony is, at best, evidence of what the witness believes to have occurred. It may or may not tell what actually happened. The familiar problems of perception, of gauging time, speed, height, weight, of accurate identification of persons accused of crime all contribute to making honest testimony something less than completely credible.

Prosecutors recognize that eyewitness testimony, even when given in all honesty and sincerity, isn't necessarily credible. Merely because a person claims to have seen something does not mean that what they remember seeing really happened - one reason why is that not all eyewitnesses are the same. To simply be a competent witness (competent, which is not the same as credible), a person must have adequate powers of perception, must be able to remember and report well, and must be able and willing to tell the truth.

I have first hand knowledge of this from my own experience, when comparing my recollections with those of others, who shared an experience with me in the past. Memories can be very malleable and details can be added or removed as a result of other information inserted after an event. I will give you an example from my own experience.

I was witness to a stabbing some years ago and had to give evidence at the trial of the assailant. In my statement to the police, a few hours after the event, I identified the assailant with some detail about his appearance, including the observation that he was wearing glasses ....... he wasn't. The defence lawyer destroyed my credibility as a witness as a result.

On reflection I realised how my recollection became corrupted.

The assailant was quickly apprehended and brought back to the scene of the assault by a policeman, and we had to wait for other police to arrive. He wore glasses when reading something as we observed. I modified my recollection of him during the attack and put those glasses on his head!
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Old 15th November 2017, 02:42 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you are told things that the medium could not have known about you, that would be cause for pause wouldn't it.

By the way I forgot to say that to avoid cold reading you should keep a straight face if given a message, and only answer yes or no to questions.
Why do they ask questions at all? Why not just point at Person A and say, "Your grandmother Fannie doesn't like your new dog Molly and never liked your husband Eugene." Would save a lot of bother.
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Old 15th November 2017, 03:03 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I know my brain cannot tell me what to think.
Words worthy of Homer Simpson.
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Old 15th November 2017, 03:12 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What makes you think we haven't?
This^
Arth makes a valid point, one which Scorpion fails to acknowledge in any way.

Scorpion seems to think that atheists are atheists by dint of simple dismissal. It never seems to occur to Scorpion that some atheists may have expended a lot of time immersing themselves in whatever is the belief du jour.

I know that I have and I am certain that Arth has, and I am certain that a great many others have.
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Old 15th November 2017, 03:14 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have fifty years experience of dealing with schizophrenia, in different forms.
If it has done anything to me it has made me mentally stronger.
I know my brain cannot tell me what to think. I am the thinker, and I can dismiss delusions and hallucinations by applying reason to them.
This is probably the first time I have seen anyone claim that schizophrenia has made them mentally stronger. I hope I don't see many more.
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Old 15th November 2017, 03:59 PM   #167
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Okay, here we go. Scorpion, I give you my word that I am being completely honest with this - it is my intent to instruct, illustrate, and perhaps to make you think about things that you have not previously considered. My intent is not to deceive or trick. I don't know you, apart from the posts you have made on this form, and I haven't read all of them. I have not done any deliberate prior research on you.

I used a standard Rider-Waite deck. I have some others that I prefer, but this deck is probably the most accessible to most people. The deck was well-shuffled. Half the cards were reversed, but I randomised the orientation of the deck as well. I used a simple three-card spread - the first card represents the past, the second the present, and the third the future. Again, there are other spreads, but this one is simple and easy to interpret. I drew three cards in order, scanned them, and uploaded the images to Imgur.com for hotlinking. These were the cards:



The first card - representing the past - is the Seven of Wands, reversed. You have had some health problems in the past, and you are not entirely confident that you have completely recovered from them. There have been several different issues that you have had no way to avoid. You have tried your best to turn your situation around and make the best of the situation, but these efforts have not been entirely successful.

The second card - representing the present - is the Seven of Pentacles, reversed. You have expended great effort in trying to make yourself self-sufficient, but again, it appears to me that you see your struggles as having been inadequate. You have made material investments that have not paid off. But at the same time you are not entirely dissatisfied. You feel that you are doing everything that you can, and your lack of success at this time is due to forces that you recognise that you cannot control, and you have come to terms with that.

The third card - representing the future - is the Six of Cups. You will in the future be in a position to offer emotional help and support to others who are less fortunate than you. If your material investments do not pay off, your emotional investments will. They haven't yet, but they will. This may be a source of greater satisfaction to you than your financial or physical health.

I note a few things about this spread. First, there are no Swords. This spread says nothing at all about your mental health. Second, there are no major arcana or face cards. This suggests that there is nothing momentous or world-changing in the spread - there may be such events in your life, but they are not reflected in this spread. It's all about you and your struggles, but in the end it's about your acceptance that the rewards that are due to you in the future aren't the ones that you have expected in the past, or are expecting now.

I'd like you to think about this reading for a little while. Note that I have not asked you any questions at this stage - I have only told you what I see in the cards. Think about what I've said and when you're ready, please let me know how accurate you think I have been. I think I've got a pretty good read here, but it's up to you to tell me how close you think I've come to you and your life. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
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Old 15th November 2017, 04:41 PM   #168
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athwollipot.
In card number one you talk about my health, but in the footnotes you say you are not talking about my mental health. Well I have always been healthy apart from mentally, so card number one is entirely wrong.
card number two is wrong too as I am entirely self sufficient and I have made no investments, the rest of it could apply to anyone.
card number three is not applicable to me because I am emotionally stunted and I don't give a damn about anyone any more.

Much of what you said could apply to anyone, and I am not anywhere near as gullible as people on this forum probably think. You only confirm my view that Tarot is bunk.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 15th November 2017 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 15th November 2017, 05:24 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
athwollipot.
In card number one you talk about my health, but in the footnotes you say you are not talking about my mental health. Well I have always been healthy apart from mentally, so card number one is entirely wrong.
card number two is wrong too as I am entirely self sufficient and I have made no investments, the rest of it could apply to anyone.
card number three is not applicable to me because I am emotionally stunted and I don't give a damn about anyone any more.

Much of what you said could apply to anyone, and I am not anywhere near as gullible as people on this forum probably think. You only confirm my view that Tarot is bunk.

And all this time I thought your motivation for posting all this stuff was to give us your enlightened understanding. A truly altruistic goal.
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Old 15th November 2017, 05:46 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
athwollipot.
In card number one you talk about my health, but in the footnotes you say you are not talking about my mental health. Well I have always been healthy apart from mentally, so card number one is entirely wrong.
card number two is wrong too as I am entirely self sufficient and I have made no investments, the rest of it could apply to anyone.
card number three is not applicable to me because I am emotionally stunted and I don't give a damn about anyone any more.
Funny enough, Arth is right on the money, despite your attempt to deny it.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Much of what you said could apply to anyone, and I am not anywhere near as gullible as people on this forum probably think. You only confirm my view that Tarot is bunk.
And that is how it works. Your "spiritualism" works in the exact same way.
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Old 15th November 2017, 06:09 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Funny enough, Arth is right on the money, despite your attempt to deny it.

And that is how it works. Your "spiritualism" works in the exact same way.
You forget I gravitated into spiritualism because I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, I could feel the atmosphere of old churches etc..
I went to spiritualists for help because psychiatrists had nothing to offer but drugs. I found the help I needed and I could feel spiritual healing as a kind of psychic heat. I know there is something in it because I could feel it for myself.
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Old 15th November 2017, 06:19 PM   #172
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It makes me sad that we seemed to be making some actual progress, but Scorpion has gone back to simply ignoring things that he doesn't have good answers for or doesn't want to face.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:08 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
athwollipot.
In card number one you talk about my health, but in the footnotes you say you are not talking about my mental health. Well I have always been healthy apart from mentally, so card number one is entirely wrong.
card number two is wrong too as I am entirely self sufficient and I have made no investments, the rest of it could apply to anyone.
card number three is not applicable to me because I am emotionally stunted and I don't give a damn about anyone any more.

Much of what you said could apply to anyone, and I am not anywhere near as gullible as people on this forum probably think. You only confirm my view that Tarot is bunk.
This leaves you with a quandary.

The churches that you claim would know if a visiting psychic was a fake invite (often multiple times) psychics that you say contact spirits, yet they also use tarot cards in their readings.

Are they fake or not? Have the churches been endorsing fake psychics or not?
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:10 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It makes me sad that we seemed to be making some actual progress, but Scorpion has gone back to simply ignoring things that he doesn't have good answers for or doesn't want to face.
Sadly pretty much always seems to happen. Look at this thread itself, he already had an active thread but he'd painted himself into a corner in that thread so he simply ignored it to start all other again with this thread talking about exactly the same things.
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:45 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You forget I gravitated into spiritualism because I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, I could feel the atmosphere of old churches etc..
Baloney. None of that is real. Think it is? OK show me a chakra. Just one. Your choice. You won't.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I went to spiritualists for help because psychiatrists had nothing to offer but drugs. I found the help I needed and I could feel spiritual healing as a kind of psychic heat. I know there is something in it because I could feel it for myself.
Oh, feelings are the sine qua non of evidence now? That is the acid test of evidence now?

OK. I feel that this is a total load of bovine fecal matter and I feel that you are making it all up and I feel that you are a Poe.

Do my feelings count or not?
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Old 15th November 2017, 11:54 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
athwollipot.
In card number one you talk about my health, but in the footnotes you say you are not talking about my mental health. Well I have always been healthy apart from mentally, so card number one is entirely wrong.
Yes, the Wands card definitely represents the physical rather than the mental. The mental would be represented by Swords, of which there are none in this particular spread. However, I am doubtful of your claim to have been completely physically healthy all your life. Perhaps it's something that you're not thinking of. Have you ever broken any bones? Been hospitalised?

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
card number two is wrong too as I am entirely self sufficient and I have made no investments, the rest of it could apply to anyone.
Then the card is not wrong - it is correct. Read my interpretation again. You have made yourself self-sufficient, yes. But there are aspects of your self-sufficiency that you are not completely satisfied with yet. Do you own your own house? That is an investment. Perhaps your house needs repairs.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
card number three is not applicable to me because I am emotionally stunted and I don't give a damn about anyone any more.
That's a very self-defeating attitude you have there, and the point of the card is that this will not always be true. Some time in the future, you will find an opportunity to put yourself out there and provide support to someone who really needs it - they might be family, or a friend, or someone you don't even know yet. But you'll recognise it when it happens. This is what the card is telling you.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Much of what you said could apply to anyone, and I am not anywhere near as gullible as people on this forum probably think. You only confirm my view that Tarot is bunk.
Well see, you're approaching the subject with a critical mind. You need to open yourself to the possibility that the world isn't the way you believe it to be. Like, how you say that skeptics need to go to a spiritualist church to understand what it's all about, you need to open yourself up to the possibilities that the cards present. My own interpretation is only one - you may realise later that the cards were "speaking" in metaphor. Perhaps the physical ailment that the Past card referred to was only an analogy for something that was happening in your life sometime in the past. You can choose to apply it to yourself if you really want to, and until you do you won't experience the opportunities that the cards present to you.

Think about it some more.
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Old 16th November 2017, 12:33 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You forget I gravitated into spiritualism because I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, I could feel the atmosphere of old churches etc.
We all have feelings, Scorpion. Sometimes they are indications of something that is actually happening in our bodies, and sometimes they are entirely in our heads. Feelings are not evidence of anything.

Quote:
I went to spiritualists for help because psychiatrists had nothing to offer but drugs. I found the help I needed and I could feel spiritual healing as a kind of psychic heat. I know there is something in it because I could feel it for myself.
I'm genuinely glad you found the help you needed, and of course you should be grateful to the community that offered it. But that doesn't mean you should uncritically accept their beliefs for the rest of your life.
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Old 16th November 2017, 01:56 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You forget I gravitated into spiritualism because I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras,
If you felt fire in your chakras you were already up to your neck in spiritualism.
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Old 16th November 2017, 01:59 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some of the philosophy of spiritualism.

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/boo...oframadahn.htm
From that site:
http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/whi...hiteeagle.html

Link to, and quotes from, the same White Eagle Lodge you said was a fraud.

What lesson were you expecting me to learn from this?

What lesson have you learned yourself?

And, as Pixel42 has pointed out, that link does not in any way answer my original question.
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Old 16th November 2017, 01:38 PM   #180
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@Scorpion,

I observe you have once again found yourself being backed into a corner with your conflicting, and inconsistent claims. This happened recently on your "Scorpion's Spiritualism" thread where you encouraged us to engage with you. You haven't been there for several days now and I suspect you bailed out.
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Old 16th November 2017, 02:47 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by MetalPig View Post
If you felt fire in your chakras you were already up to your neck in spiritualism.
Or you need to ask the waiter to bring more riata.
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Old 16th November 2017, 02:59 PM   #182
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Either they are in on it or it's a crap shoot. I see demons not ghosts so really can't comment. Since I don't actually see ghosts my first reaction is "FAKE," however, they could also be part of it also. I hear of mediums from talking to people from work and they make a lot more money than Demonologists like me, from what I see. though I do all right That just makes me more suspicious of them them. Any of you see dead people?
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Old 16th November 2017, 05:23 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Or you need to ask the waiter to bring more riata.
Perhaps some Prevacid might be in order.
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Old 16th November 2017, 05:39 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Apology View Post
Perhaps some Prevacid might be in order.
This thread has me reaching for the Pepto. (Or the tequila, you know I always get those two mixed up.)
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Old 16th November 2017, 07:16 PM   #185
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Old 17th November 2017, 01:14 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
@Scorpion,

I observe you have once again found yourself being backed into a corner with your conflicting, and inconsistent claims. This happened recently on your "Scorpion's Spiritualism" thread where you encouraged us to engage with you. You haven't been there for several days now and I suspect you bailed out.
Yea, I find it strange that even though I believe I am probably right about everything that matters, I cannot win the debates.

I don't see my claims as conflicting and inconsistent.

I maintain that there probably is a God, that there is a spirit world, and that we probably do reincarnate in a cycle of rebirths.

But I cannot prove a word of it.

By my perception my posts on scorpions spiritualism got twisted up and thrown back at me all bent out of shape.

I maintain that our suffering is not as terrible as it seems to us because the spirit never dies. We simply exchange our bodies for a new one like changing an overcoat. Hard experience forces changes in the soul that cannot happen in a higher world above suffering. And so all experience is for the ultimate good.
This does not mean we should not try to help those in trouble. Or that causing suffering is good.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 17th November 2017 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 17th November 2017, 01:53 AM   #187
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The problem is not that you cannot prove your beliefs, it's that (a) you have no empirical evidence for them and (b) they don't actually make any sense. These facts would not be impediments on forums whose posters do not possess critical thinking skills and are willing to believe whatever makes them happiest, but this is not such a forum.
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Old 17th November 2017, 02:06 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yea, I find it strange that even though I believe I am probably right about everything that matters, I cannot win the debates.......
You can't win debates because you are wrong in everything you say. You believe you are right, but you aren't. You have deluded yourself into thinking you are right, with no evidence whatever, and have constructed a world view which doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. You expose yourself to scrutiny here, and have no answers other than "I believe".
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Old 17th November 2017, 02:32 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Right, lets get down to business. You people keep demanding evidence for my claims that a spirit world exists. I keep telling you I can't give you objective evidence but if you went to a spiritualist church for long enough you might get subjective evidence for yourselves.
The notion of 'subjective evidence' is completely flawed. Evidence is evidence, and while we may be obliged to engage it subjectively, the nature of evidence is that it appears the same to everyone.


Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
SO WHY DON'T YOU GO TO CHURCH? Then post your experiences here.
This is not an experiment, this is a command to engage in woolly nonsense for no good reason.

For example, let us assume someone was stupid enough to follow through with this idea and go to one of the ******* churches who promulgate this nonsense. Then they come back and tell you they received no such evidence.

What then is your response? To drop your contentions?

Of course not. You'd say 'go again' and you'd keep saying that ad nauseum suddenly conjuring up an extra layer of contention that you have to go a certain number of times, that we'd 'eventually' get the purported evidence.

Even were someone to go to such a place every day for the rest of their life and never report what you claim, you'd still be able to explain it away by contending that they didn't believe hard enough, or that they weren't open to the truth, or whatever nonsense you fancied.

The point is that this is no experiment at all, and you can't appeal to subjective quantities to try and evidence a claim.

In reality, your argument is no different than the much-repeated refrain of opening yourself to God and surely God will come into your life... but when this doesn't happen, it's always explained away with nonsense.


Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I suggest any of you that want to find out for yourselves if there is anything in spiritualism go to church every Sunday for at least a month. Bearing in mind that I went for two years before I had evidential messages that finally convince me that some mediums are genuine.
Yeah, it's called brainwashing. It takes time. Most people have some degree of intellectual fortitude against being convinced of ********.


Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Spiritualist churches are free and just send round a voluntary collection plate, you don't have to contribute.
So investigate for yourselves, why don't you?
How about you support your claims rather than demanding that other people perform extensive tricks which, when they don't produce the result you claim, you'd just explain away anyway?

Spiritualist churches are vile place, and mediums are liars who gull their idiot flocks with trickery, barnum statements, and outright deception.
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Old 17th November 2017, 02:34 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You forget I gravitated into spiritualism because I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras,...


Your.... chakras....

Any chance you might conceive of yourself as being primed to accept woo, and therefore you find it?
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Old 17th November 2017, 02:42 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yea, I find it strange that even though I believe I am probably right about everything that matters, I cannot win the debates.

I don't see my claims as conflicting and inconsistent.

I maintain that there probably is a God, that there is a spirit world, and that we probably do reincarnate in a cycle of rebirths.

But I cannot prove a word of it.

By my perception my posts on scorpions spiritualism got twisted up and thrown back at me all bent out of shape.

I maintain that our suffering is not as terrible as it seems to us because the spirit never dies. We simply exchange our bodies for a new one like changing an overcoat. Hard experience forces changes in the soul that cannot happen in a higher world above suffering. And so all experience is for the ultimate good.
This does not mean we should not try to help those in trouble. Or that causing suffering is good.
Which unfortunately does mean that you hold a belief that says that victims of the Killing Fields, the parents who have just been told their daughter has been brutally murdered should take comfort in knowing their suffering is for their own good.

Then you add into the mix that the angels in charge of karma and reincarnation know what life you are to be reborn into, which means we do not have free will.

Which then means that we suffer because your god has planned for us all to suffer, in other words your god wants us to suffer because that is how your god created reality.

Your god is a vile and despicable being that if it did exist would deserve nothing less than our utter contempt and loathing. But of course it wouldn't let us make that choice for ourselves!
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Old 17th November 2017, 03:06 AM   #192
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And the 'Angels of Karma' actively collude to incarnate certain souls into lives where they will be able to be monsters.
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Old 17th November 2017, 03:19 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Right, lets get down to business. You people keep demanding evidence for my claims that a spirit world exists. I keep telling you I can't give you objective evidence but if you went to a spiritualist church for long enough you might get subjective evidence for yourselves.

SO WHY DON'T YOU GO TO CHURCH? Then post your experiences here.

I suggest any of you that want to find out for yourselves if there is anything in spiritualism go to church every Sunday for at least a month. Bearing in mind that I went for two years before I had evidential messages that finally convince me that some mediums are genuine. Spiritualist churches are free and just send round a voluntary collection plate, you don't have to contribute.
So investigate for yourselves, why don't you?

Here is a list of UK churches.

http://www.thespiritualist.org/

Here is a list of USA churches.

http://www.spiritualistresources.com...rsUSA/index.pl
To get back to your original post, I have. I went with to keep a friend company. I was asked if John meant anything to me. I said it did. Then they then said John had a message for me. I asked "which one?" (as that was my father's name and that of someone who had been a friend for over 30 years, both of whom had died in the past year - but I didn't mention this is - it was an instinctive reply). They asked who John was, what his relationship to me was and so on. Each time I only replied "Which one?". After a minute or so of this, they moved on to some one else.


I know it's begging the question, but if there was anything real in this the opening by the fraud medium would be "Is there anyone called greebo here? I have a message from their father / friend".
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Old 17th November 2017, 03:55 AM   #194
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Another experiment that has been done is to simply give the medium positive responses even though what they're saying actually means nothing to you. "Yes, John was the name of my father who died six months ago", even though your father's name is Brian and he's still alive. You'll get an ever more detailed story, building on whatever information you give, all of which is wrong. At no point will the spirits apparently see fit to tell the medium that the subject of the reading is actually lying through their teeth.
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Old 17th November 2017, 07:38 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which unfortunately does mean that you hold a belief that says that victims of the Killing Fields, the parents who have just been told their daughter has been brutally murdered should take comfort in knowing their suffering is for their own good.

Then you add into the mix that the angels in charge of karma and reincarnation know what life you are to be reborn into, which means we do not have free will.

Which then means that we suffer because your god has planned for us all to suffer, in other words your god wants us to suffer because that is how your god created reality.

Your god is a vile and despicable being that if it did exist would deserve nothing less than our utter contempt and loathing. But of course it wouldn't let us make that choice for ourselves!
I knew as soon as I logged off you would pick up on that, so I was going to edit the post to read. 'most experience' not ' all experience' but I was too late.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 17th November 2017 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 17th November 2017, 08:34 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The problem is not that you cannot prove your beliefs, it's that (a) you have no empirical evidence for them and (b) they don't actually make any sense. These facts would not be impediments on forums whose posters do not possess critical thinking skills and are willing to believe whatever makes them happiest, but this is not such a forum.
I think the theory of reincarnation and karma makes a lot of sense.
And so a lot of Buddhists and Hindus.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 17th November 2017, 08:38 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think the theory of reincarnation and karma makes a lot of sense.
And so a lot of Buddhists and Hindus.

So what?
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Old 17th November 2017, 08:40 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think the theory of reincarnation and karma makes a lot of sense.
And so a lot of Buddhists and Hindus.
Discworld makes a lot of sense too, and has precisely the same amount of evidence supporting it as you pet theory.
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Old 17th November 2017, 08:44 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think the theory of reincarnation and karma makes a lot of sense.
1) It doesn't make any sense at all because there's no mechanism behind it.
2) Sense would suggest that you'd be able to observe or detect it in some way.
3) It's not a theory - it's a belief system.
4) Whole suites of undisclosed magical systems would need to be in place for either to operate.


Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
And so a lot of Buddhists and Hindus.
With respect, I expect you don't know much, if anything, about Buddhists or Hindus, or their beliefs.
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Old 17th November 2017, 08:46 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think the theory of reincarnation and karma makes a lot of sense.
And so a lot of Buddhists and Hindus.
There is no theory of reincarnation and karma. There's just a lot of wishful thinking, unsupported by evidence (and in some cases contradicted by evidence), that makes very little sense when you think about it for more than a few minutes. For example what exactly is it of you that is reincarnated, given that you are the product of your genes, upbringing and experiences, none of which would be carried over.
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