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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 18th November 2017, 08:18 AM   #41
Stacko
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He still gets his good news folder.

Quote:
Aides in the White House often show Trump polls designed to make him feel good, according to aides and advisers. Usually they’re the ones that focus just on voters who cast ballots for him in 2016 or are potential Trump supporters —Trump’s base—but occasionally include public polls like Rasmussen, depending on what the numbers say.

“You know, I thought that he’d be a little less in campaign mode than he’s been. I think he’s never really kind of gotten out of campaign mode and I thought he might,” said New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a Trump adviser. “I guess it’s his judgment that that’s what he has to do but that’s surprised me a little bit.”

Keeping track of polls while in office isn’t unusual. President Bill Clinton infamously had his pollster Dick Morris survey voters about where to go on vacation before the 1996 election—the data led the Clintons to Yellowstone Park in Wyoming, after previously summering on Martha’s Vineyard—and President Barack Obama asked his pollster Joel Benenson to collect public opinon data as the 2009 stimulus bill took shape.

...

When the White House sent internal poll numbers to about 15 legislators last month in hopes of pressuring them to support tax reform, it wasn’t the usual approve-disapprove.

Instead, the polls delineated by the president’s base, steady Trump voters, soft Trump voters, lean Dem independent voters, white working class men, suburban women. For example, in New Jersey’s seventh congressional district, a wealthier stretch that includes Trump’s Bedminster golf club, 72.7 percent of the president’s base approves of him, while 67.9 percent of Republicans approve, internal polls obtained by POLITICO show. There was no data on his approval rating overall.

The numbers came from the Republican National Committee. An RNC spokeswoman said the data is available to show “the priorities and sentiments of voters in a way that traditional polling does not.”
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Old 18th November 2017, 08:22 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Not sure what you mean.
He got talked into relaxing the ban ("Sure thing Junior, no problemo.")... then saw the pushback.

He's a damned windsock.

Fair analogy, I think. It's not uncommon for people to praise the wind for blowing in the direction they desire, but I don't think anybody praises the windsock. The person or people who played the part of wind here deserve the praise, not Trump.

ETA: You could maybe make this argument for every President, but I feel like previous Presidents were more capable of actively seeking out or requesting relevant information. Trump, not so much...

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Old 18th November 2017, 08:22 AM   #43
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I assume you refer to the sons? That's highly disrespectful hence I fixed it for you

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
But seeing the light and making an informed decision is what a real president does. There's nothing about him to indicate he makes either principled or informed decisions. He was throwing a bone to his two dogs Uday and Qusay, and he took face shots from left, right and center so he changed his mind.
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Old 18th November 2017, 08:31 AM   #44
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In the UK the Prime Minister gets a Cabinet Minister to announce things. Then, when it proves unpopular they can step in and reverse it making the minister look like the idiot.
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Old 18th November 2017, 08:40 AM   #45
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Many of my right-wing friends and acquaintances were exactly as knee-jerk in their reactions to anything Obama said or did.

I found that equally closed-minded.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 18th November 2017, 08:43 AM   #46
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Fair analogy, I think. It's not uncommon for people to praise the wind for blowing in the direction they desire, but I don't think anybody praises the windsock. The person or people who played the part of wind here deserve the praise, not Trump.
Sorry, but I had to be reminded of this:



As a reminder, the right made hay of that one!
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 18th November 2017, 09:04 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Many of my right-wing friends and acquaintances were exactly as knee-jerk in their reactions to anything Obama said or did.

I found that equally closed-minded.
Your right-wing friends criticized Obama for making mindless, impulsive decisions?
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Your right-wing friends criticized Obama for making mindless, impulsive decisions?
For everything.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:40 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
For everything.
Do you think it is inappropriate to criticize the president for making mindless, impulsive decisipns?
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Do you think it is inappropriate to criticize the president for making mindless, impulsive decisipns?
No, of course not.

But when every single action gets criticized, said criticism loses some of its weight in my book.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:18 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
No, of course not.

But when every single action gets criticized, said criticism loses some of its weight in my book.
But what if most every action has at its core mindless impulsivity?
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:33 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
But what if most every action has at its core mindless impulsivity?
This.

When a candidate/President waffles and flip flops on himself with every decision and action, then fair game as far as I am concerned.
When a President continuously posts people to positions they don't deserve and are unqualified for, fair game.

Last edited by chrispy; 18th November 2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:48 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
No, of course not.

But when every single action gets criticized, said criticism loses some of its weight in my book.
Or maybe you are still grasping at that 'he'll start to act Presidential now' straw.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
No, of course not.

But when every single action gets criticized, said criticism loses some of its weight in my book.
There's something to that but I'm generally disinclined to give any leader credit for simply addressing a problem he himself created. Now, if I see Trump fixing some legacy problem from created by a previous non-Obama president, I'll happily give him credit for that. I'm not aware of any examples, but I'll consider any you'd like to offer.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
No, of course not.

But when every single action gets criticized, said criticism loses some of its weight in my book.

You're saying that since he screws up nearly all the time, some of the screw-ups shouldn't count as much?

Okay.

Weird, but whatever floats your boat.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or maybe you are still grasping at that 'he'll start to act Presidential now' straw.
No. I was maybe a little hopeful right after the election, but very quickly gave that up.

There are mountains of things to rightfully criticize him for. I do all the time.

But reconsidering a poor decision is something I would expect a leader to do. Calling him cowardly for doing so is what I objected to.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 18th November 2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
You're saying that since he screws up nearly all the time, some of the screw-ups shouldn't count as much?

Okay.

Weird, but whatever floats your boat.
That would be weird.

I was just saying reconsidering a poor decision is not, in and of itself, a screw-up.

But time for me to move on. I don’t relish being painted as a Trump apologist.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:30 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Oh good, so if he gets his nap, blankie, watches his favorite show and his good news he won't blow civilization all to hell.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:38 PM   #59
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Maybe deserves its own thread, but here’s another example*.

A couple days ago I watched the Morning Joe hosts of MSNBC chastise Steve Mnuchin and his wife for this photo:



Look, I doubt I’ll ever live to see my signature on a dollar bill. But if I ever did, I’d probably want to pose for a goofy photo or two with me and my wife holding a sheet of them.

The expression is “keeping your powder dry”. Hold your outrage for the truly outrageous or it just gets kind of numbing, is all.

*Before I move on, of course!
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 18th November 2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 18th November 2017, 12:52 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That would be weird.

I was just saying reconsidering a poor decision is not, in and of itself, a screw-up.

But time for me to move on. I don’t relish being painted as a Trump apologist.
I take your point, for what it's worth.
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:09 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
No. I was maybe a little hopeful right after the election, bet very quickly gave that up.

There are mountains of things to rightfully criticize him for. I do all the time.

But reconsidering a poor decision is something I would expect a leader to do. Calling him cowardly for doing so is what I objected to.
I understand your point. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

But I also understand those who damn both ways. When someone is so remarkably ignorant on issue after issue, and so apparently incapable of intellectual growth, and decisions boil down to (1) ego (2) ego (3) personal financial gain and (4) pandering, Trump merits criticism irrespective of outcomes.
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:24 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B
That would be weird.

I was just saying reconsidering a poor decision is not, in and of itself, a screw-up.

<snip>
Trump's past history of reconsidering bad decisions and the circumstances surrounding such incidents does not lend itself to a charitable view of his actions in that regard.

Nor do the circumstances surrounding this one.
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or maybe you are still grasping at that 'he'll start to act Presidential now' straw.
He may grasping on the "perhaps he is already acting presidentially and you leftists just don't see it".
Then perhaps Eddie should come up with an example or three where Trum lived up at least to average President quality (not just the bare essentials such as reading prepared statements that are not cringeworthy).
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:43 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Oh good, so if he gets his nap, blankie, watches his favorite show and his good news he won't blow civilization all to hell.

And in other news on that front ...

Gen. John Hyten, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, reassures us that;
Quote:
... he has given a lot of thought to what he would say if Mr. Trump ordered a strike he considered unlawful.
"I think some people think we're stupid," Hyten said in response to a question about such a scenario. "We're not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility, how do you not think about it?"
Hyten explained the process that would follow such a command. As head of STRATCOM, Hyten is responsible for overseeing the U.S. nuclear arsenal.
"I provide advice to the president, he will tell me what to do," Hyten added. "And if it's illegal, guess what's going to happen? I'm going to say, 'Mr. President, that's illegal.' And guess what he's going to do? He's going to say, 'What would be legal?' And we'll come up options, with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that's the way it works. It's not that complicated."
So as long as he, personally, considers it unlawful we have nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, I wonder how much he now needs to worry about his position as STRATCOM commander, since he has now publicly stated that if he gets an order from his Commander In Chief that he doesn't like he'll refuse it, and try and talk him down instead.
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Old 18th November 2017, 01:54 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And in other news on that front ...

Gen. John Hyten, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, reassures us that;
So as long as he, personally, considers it unlawful we have nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, I wonder how much he now needs to worry about his position as STRATCOM commander, since he has now publicly stated that if he gets an order from his Commander In Chief that he doesn't like he'll refuse it, and try and talk him down instead.
The real problem is that legally Trump can take the decision unilaterally.
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Old 18th November 2017, 02:05 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The real problem is that legally Trump can take the decision unilaterally.

Hyten would be the one Trump would take the action unilaterally through. He is the next step in the execution of an order to fire.

Trump would need to fire him first, and have the next person in line take over.
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Old 18th November 2017, 02:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Maybe deserves its own thread, but here’s another example*.

A couple days ago I watched the Morning Joe hosts of MSNBC chastise Steve Mnuchin and his wife for this photo:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/a...cy-780x439.jpg

Look, I doubt I’ll ever live to see my signature on a dollar bill. But if I ever did, I’d probably want to pose for a goofy photo or two with me and my wife holding a sheet of them.

The expression is “keeping your powder dry”. Hold your outrage for the truly outrageous or it just gets kind of numbing, is all.

*Before I move on, of course!
I'm pretty darn liberal and I can't get excited about that either, although her gloves and expression are both a bit...um, odd?

What's really offensive about that picture is that we are still wasting money by printing dollar bills. That's not up to Mnuchin to fix, of course, and Congress lacks the gonads to do so.
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Old 18th November 2017, 02:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm pretty darn liberal and I can't get excited about that either, although her gloves and expression are both a bit...um, odd?

What's really offensive about that picture is that we are still wasting money by printing dollar bills. That's not up to Mnuchin to fix, of course, and Congress lacks the gonads to do so.
I'm with you. That photo is no big deal.
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Old 18th November 2017, 02:52 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That would be weird.

I was just saying reconsidering a poor decision is not, in and of itself, a screw-up.
I do agree "coward" was the wrong attribute to apply in this situation but not for the reason you did.

I'd be more inclined to say, thank goodness someone talked him out of it. I just don't see anything in the decision that says, Trump reconsidered, or thought more about it, or decided to look into some aspects he hadn't considered.
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Old 18th November 2017, 03:03 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And in other news on that front ...


So as long as he, personally, considers it unlawful we have nothing to worry about.
Is that what he said in the quote in your very own post?

Quote:
"And if it's illegal, guess what's going to happen? I'm going to say, 'Mr. President, that's illegal.' And guess what he's going to do? He's going to say, 'What would be legal?' And we'll come up options, with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that's the way it works. It's not that complicated."


Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
On the other hand, I wonder how much he now needs to worry about his position as STRATCOM commander, since he has now publicly stated that if he gets an order from his Commander In Chief that he doesn't like he'll refuse it, and try and talk him down instead.
Way to completely misrepresent what you quoted in your own post.

Do posters here really think that there are people Trump could hire that would launch nukes at his whim without any forethought? You watch too much TV or something. This is ridiculous but it makes great news!
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Old 18th November 2017, 03:06 PM   #71
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Quote:
For example, in New Jersey’s seventh congressional district, a wealthier stretch that includes Trump’s Bedminster golf club, 72.7 percent of the president’s base approves of him, while 67.9 percent of Republicans approve, internal polls obtained by POLITICO show.
Is this new? More than a quarter of his base doesn't approve of him? Is that because of the area, or is support softening?

If his base = people who voted for him, that figure might be significant.
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Old 18th November 2017, 03:07 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I do agree "coward" was the wrong attribute to apply in this situation but not for the reason you did.

I'd be more inclined to say, thank goodness someone talked him out of it. I just don't see anything in the decision that says, Trump reconsidered, or thought more about it, or decided to look into some aspects he hadn't considered.
I don't think it was any of those reasons, just that someone actually convinced him how bad it looked. That's a pretty rare event, of course.
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Old 18th November 2017, 03:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do posters here really think that there are people Trump could hire that would launch nukes at his whim without any forethought? You watch too much TV or something. This is ridiculous but it makes great news!
I don't know that there are such people, but if there were, I wouldn't be shocked.
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Old 18th November 2017, 03:12 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm pretty darn liberal and I can't get excited about that either, although her gloves and expression are both a bit...um, odd?
Her face might just be stuck in that expression.
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Old 18th November 2017, 04:16 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It should have never been done in the first place.

Why did he act first and then decide to look into the conservation effects?

Because he's a moron. There is no virtue in doing the right thing only in response to outage.
This is what I've been curious about.
What was the end-game? Why relax the ban? What's the rationale?

I sure hope it just isn't that "My sons like to hunt elephants"...
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Old 18th November 2017, 04:39 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And in other news on that front ...

Gen. John Hyten, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, reassures us that;
So as long as he, personally, considers it unlawful we have nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, I wonder how much he now needs to worry about his position as STRATCOM commander, since he has now publicly stated that if he gets an order from his Commander In Chief that he doesn't like he'll refuse it, and try and talk him down instead.
Good to know. Thing is, I'm not really all that worried about Trump giving some sort of flagrantly illegal order to start hurling nukes for no good reason. I'm much more worried about him having a rash overreaction to a legitimate security problem. Like North Korea or Iran does something foolish and he goes for the most severe response.
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Old 18th November 2017, 04:58 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Is that what he said in the quote in your very own post?







Way to completely misrepresent what you quoted in your own post.

Do posters here really think that there are people Trump could hire that would launch nukes at his whim without any forethought? You watch too much TV or something. This is ridiculous but it makes great news!
We don't know what insult Kim is going to call Trump next.
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Old 18th November 2017, 06:04 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Good to know. Thing is, I'm not really all that worried about Trump giving some sort of flagrantly illegal order to start hurling nukes for no good reason. I'm much more worried about him having a rash overreaction to a legitimate security problem. Like North Korea or Iran does something foolish and he goes for the most severe response.

There's the rub.

I'm concerned that Donald's tough guy act will push Lil' Kim into action.
Then, launching our own would not be illegal or overly severe.

But it would still be, arguably, Donald's fault.

I have zero belief that Trump wants to fire the missiles. It's a deterrent and he knows that.
But it's a terrible corner that he could paint himself into.
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Old 18th November 2017, 06:50 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Hyten would be the one Trump would take the action unilaterally through. He is the next step in the execution of an order to fire.

Trump would need to fire him first, and have the next person in line take over.
Why? He only said he wouldn't follow an illegal order, which is the credo in the armed services anyway. It appears Trump has the legal power to decide to use nuclear weapons, therefore Hyten would not be following an illegal order if Trump decided to use nuclear weapons.
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Old 18th November 2017, 06:53 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
This is what I've been curious about.
What was the end-game? Why relax the ban? What's the rationale?

I sure hope it just isn't that "My sons like to hunt elephants"...
And then Trump watched Dumbo!
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