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Old 29th November 2017, 01:09 PM   #41
King of the Americas
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This guy has better toys:

http://angkorlidar.org/2015/04/first...15-lidar-data/
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:10 PM   #42
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This is as good as claiming that the existence of pyramids in different places in the world is evidence of aliens or something because obviously humans aren't smart enough to stack rocks in a structure that's good at not falling over.

It makes sense to plant fields in rectilinear patterns, because ploughs. It is not at all strange or unusual that populations in different, widely spread locations all independently discovered that when you put lots of straight plough lines together you get a rectangle.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
There are grid gardens on that island...
And if there are?

They're almost certainly ridge & furrow fields. Not much like a grid. So what?
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
He claimed rectangles were the only way to remark you land other than rivers....
See if you can rewrite this such that it makes an iota of sense. "Remark you land other than rivers" may make sense to someone on the planet, but not to native speakers of English.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And if there are?

They're almost certainly ridge & furrow fields. Not much like a grid. So what?
There seems to be quite a lot of surviving ridge and furrow landscaping near me in Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, I'll have to keep an eye out.

Thanks for bringing something interesting and new (well kind of!) to my attention.
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:20 PM   #46
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The places to look out for it are formerly farmed areas which are now given over to grazing. The East Midlands, for example, has lots......but you won't find much in East Anglia. Modern ploughing destroys it. They were traditionally a furlong ("furrow long") by a chain wide (so 220 yards by 22 yards), and this area defines an acre. All those measurements (furlong, chain & acre) derived from ridge & furrow farming.
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:32 PM   #47
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Can someone post the hypothesis that is being discussed here? I can't figure it out. Does anyone dispute that there are rectangular agricultural fields all over the world?
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
Can someone post the hypothesis that is being discussed here? I can't figure it out. Does anyone dispute that there are rectangular agricultural fields all over the world?
You're new. You don't yet know King of the Americas, do you.
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You're new. You don't yet know King of the Americas, do you.


Ancient Jews created the rectangle so that Atlantians would know where to land their spaceships when they fell out of the solar eclipse?
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post


Ancient Jews created the rectangle so that Atlantians would know where to land their spaceships when they fell out of the solar eclipse?
Still way too....provable...or non-random....or something.

Just thinking of the proper words to describe the useless diatribe and rhetoric which spews forth from the keyboard of KotA like an over-heated and shaken can of Mountain Dew makes my head hurt.

Wait....that might be as close as I can get.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Great. That is one of many brochs in Scotland, which is not an island. So your question didn't even make sense. Now, what point were you trying to make?
Scotland as a whole isn't an island, but its territory includes many islands and MousaWP is one of them.
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Old 29th November 2017, 04:08 PM   #52
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For KOTA. Here are some 'Grid Gardens' Do they qualify? They cover a vast area.

https://goo.gl/maps/iyh2kPKpBvF2

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 29th November 2017 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 29th November 2017, 04:32 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Scotland as a whole isn't an island, but its territory includes many islands and MousaWP is one of them.
Thanks. You may have missed the original post in which KOTA said that it was an island north of England. I was simply pointing out that north of England is Scotland, which isn't an island.

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
"Grid gardens"...like the .... ones on the tiny north islands of England,.......
Not the way anyone who knew what they were talking about would describe any of the Scottish Isles.
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Last edited by MikeG; 29th November 2017 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 29th November 2017, 04:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post


Ancient Jews created the rectangle so that Atlantians would know where to land their spaceships when they fell out of the solar eclipse?
You learn quickly. You'll do well around here.
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:21 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You learn quickly. You'll do well around here.
I don't know, I thought it lacked the sense of smug, unwarranted, condescension.
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:39 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
For KOTA. Here are some 'Grid Gardens' Do they qualify? They cover a vast area.

https://goo.gl/maps/iyh2kPKpBvF2
My first thought was "The American Midwest" but then I realized it's not square enough nor aligned to a north-south axis.
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Old 29th November 2017, 07:47 PM   #57
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My great-uncle Grappy was a grid gardener in the Finger Lakes region of New York. He grew the finest grids in the northeast. Early on, Grappy's grids were mostly used for sifting, grilling, and prison cells. But later, during WWII, they came into high demand for use in searches and attack planning, especially in the Pacific theater. After the war, he supplied the grids for all the crossword puzzles in the New York Times. He always claimed his father taught Mondrian everything he ever knew. That was back around the turn of the century, when homegrown grids were still a novelty in the New World. (The Tartans were still holding onto their European monopoly at the time.)

As one might expect, though, he was a rigorous sort, and he failed to change with the times. His gardens suffered as artificial grids came to dominate the market. Unfortunately, he always insisted "webs aren't grids, dagnabbit," and so lost out on big business opportunities in the dawning digital age. Eventually his operation succumbed to gridlock.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
You're not sure whether or not the grid gardens are in fact all the same size and shape?

So why have you been repeatedly, IN ALL CAPS, asserting that they are all the same size and shape?

Why would you repeatedly declare such a thing to be true if you hadn't actually done the necessary research to see if it's true? There's no excuse. You can use Google Earth Pro (a free application) to measure distances and areas.

Well?
Because that's not how my findings happened, nor how my thesis began. The first things I found were 'squares' of artificially planted trees planted in a desert. Then I found rows and small grids of trees on remote islands. After that I theorized they were everywhere, so I looked near my home, where I found these really familiar rectangular grid gardens. THEY are everywhere, all around the world, even under water!

Each one is 888X222 feet, but I am only counting them, if they appear in a 'grid'..
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:34 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is as good as claiming that the existence of pyramids in different places in the world is evidence of aliens or something because obviously humans aren't smart enough to stack rocks in a structure that's good at not falling over.

It makes sense to plant fields in rectilinear patterns, because ploughs. It is not at all strange or unusual that populations in different, widely spread locations all independently discovered that when you put lots of straight plough lines together you get a rectangle.
What if the pyramids are the same size? Would that qualify as a connection?
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:36 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And if there are?

They're almost certainly ridge & furrow fields. Not much like a grid. So what?
So what...???

The Earth was plowed, then planted!

Even the rainforests!

I'd say that's an important historical fact.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:40 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
There seems to be quite a lot of surviving ridge and furrow landscaping near me in Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, I'll have to keep an eye out.

Thanks for bringing something interesting and new (well kind of!) to my attention.
Can you get to Thornhill Pond?
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The places to look out for it are formerly farmed areas which are now given over to grazing. The East Midlands, for example, has lots......but you won't find much in East Anglia. Modern ploughing destroys it. They were traditionally a furlong ("furrow long") by a chain wide (so 220 yards by 22 yards), and this area defines an acre. All those measurements (furlong, chain & acre) derived from ridge & furrow farming.
Actually, I can show you how modern plowing hasn't completely destroyed these original lines...

Rivers will do it though.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You're new. You don't yet know King of the Americas, do you.
My thesis is in the other thread.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:48 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
For KOTA. Here are some 'Grid Gardens' Do they qualify? They cover a vast area.

https://goo.gl/maps/iyh2kPKpBvF2
Vierhouten's southern forest is a much better example.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:53 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Thanks. You may have missed the original post in which KOTA said that it was an island north of England. I was simply pointing out that north of England is Scotland, which isn't an island.



Not the way anyone who knew what they were talking about would describe any of the Scottish Isles.
Mousa Broch is on a scottish island, and it has grid gardens.
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Old 30th November 2017, 07:04 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Mousa Broch is on a scottish island, and it has grid gardens.
No, no, it has ridge and furrow fields. You're wrong, and I am right.
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Old 30th November 2017, 07:38 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
My thesis is in the other thread.
Can you cut and paste it here for people who are not reading "the other thread"? Thanks.
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Old 30th November 2017, 07:58 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Can you get to Thornhill Pond?
Can, theoretically although Google lists it as being on restricted usage roads and I don't know its there's public access. But wouldn't drive three hours without a very good reason.
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:47 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Can, theoretically although Google lists it as being on restricted usage roads and I don't know its there's public access. But wouldn't drive three hours without a very good reason.
Google earth that forest...there's some old stuff to investigate!
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:10 AM   #70
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I don't think King actually believes that "grid gardens" mean or prove anything. Its such a silly and uncompelling claim that I just can't take it seriously but for the sake of conversation I would like some evidence to even take the claim seriously.

A. How old are these supposed gardens shown in the various pictures? How do we know the age?
B. How closely to the dimensions actually match? How do we know?
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:18 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I don't think King actually believes that "grid gardens" mean or prove anything. Its such a silly and uncompelling claim that I just can't take it seriously but for the sake of conversation I would like some evidence to even take the claim seriously.

A. How old are these supposed gardens shown in the various pictures? How do we know the age?
B. How closely to the dimensions actually match? How do we know?
A. All that I know for now is- pre-Columbian. I've linked studies dating site similar to my finds.
B. Close or exact. Google Earth has a ruler.
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:21 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
Can you cut and paste it here for people who are not reading "the other thread"? Thanks.
"Should similarly sized and shaped grid gardens, in sparsely populated remote areas, be interpreted as evidence of advanced agriculture and global interconnectivity?"

I need to more specifically define "similarly sized and shaped grid gardens," as I have been too liberal in assigning this 'similarity.' I also need to add "sparsely populated remote areas," because one of the elements I'm discussing is how poorly the re-occupations occur. It is the grid gardens' size relative to existing and recent historical populations that proves someone else did it.
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:29 AM   #73
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What do you mean "someone else did it"? In the case of ridge and furrow fields in Britain, we know very well who did it, and how. I am completely in the dark as to what you are arguing here. Your language is sloppy and incoherent, and there appear to be huge assumptions being leapt to all over the place.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:31 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Google earth that forest...there's some old stuff to investigate!
I did, it's a country estate, farmed and landscaped. This is Britain, there's barely a square inch of land that hasn't been farmed, landscaped, developed, redeveloped, managed, or some combination of the above at some point, it is the third most populous island in the world. Looks like 19th century by the layout.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:41 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
A. All that I know for now is- pre-Columbian. I've linked studies dating site similar to my finds.
So, you don't but probably modern as they are still easily found on google earth

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
B. Close or exact. Google Earth has a ruler.
So, not close or exact at all.

I still don't believe you think this is evidence of anything. It doesn't need to be debunked because its not evidence of anything other than a lot of folks have a habit growing crops in rectalinear fields.


Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is as good as claiming that the existence of pyramids in different places in the world is evidence of aliens or something because obviously humans aren't smart enough to stack rocks in a structure that's good at not falling over.

It makes sense to plant fields in rectilinear patterns, because ploughs. It is not at all strange or unusual that populations in different, widely spread locations all independently discovered that when you put lots of straight plough lines together you get a rectangle.
Actually less compelling than a bunch of widespread ancient cultures figuring out that stacking rocks into mounds is the simplest way to make tall structures out of rocks.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:18 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
B. Close or exact. Google Earth has a ruler.
Close to what? You keep saying that the 'grid gardens' are all the same size, but you either won't say what that size is or you have mentioned '888ftx222ft' as the size you're referring, but given that you have posted undersea thingamajigs miles in diameter, it's clear that you can't possibly be referring to anything 888ft x 222ft as being the size in question.

But you can't and won't commit to any hard figures because it would be far too easy to disprove. Easier for you to just keep making vague claims about vague things being 'the same size and shape' without defining the shape and size you're referring to.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:21 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I did, it's a country estate, farmed and landscaped. This is Britain, there's barely a square inch of land that hasn't been farmed, landscaped, developed, redeveloped, managed, or some combination of the above at some point, it is the third most populous island in the world. Looks like 19th century by the layout.
Which estate is it?
I know he used a picture of Castle Howard estate a while ago, I knew it right away because I go fishing in the lake there regularly.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:48 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Which estate is it?
I know he used a picture of Castle Howard estate a while ago, I knew it right away because I go fishing in the lake there regularly.
If you plug "Thornhill Pond" into Google Maps it comes up on a estate near Marlborough, but I don't know if it's the name of the estate itself. It seems it's probably private judging by the lack of success Googling it.
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Old 30th November 2017, 02:14 PM   #79
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Just off the A4? It's the Savernake Estate.
Savernake Forest, lying between Marlborough and Hungerford, is privately-owned by the Earl of Cardigan, his son Viscount Savernake and his family Trustees. It extends to some 4,500 acres, and is the only-privately owned Forest in Britain. Much of its timber rights are leased to the Forestry Commission. Running right through the middle of the Forest is Capability Brown's 'Grand Avenue'. This avenue of beech trees - now a Private Road - was laid out in the late 1790's, and at just over 4 miles long it stands in the Guinness Book of Records as the longest Avenue in Britain.
A lot of it is replanting
Quote:
The mid 17th century to mid 18th century saw variations in the size of the forest. English deer parks were subject to dis-parking whereby sections of forest and parkland were converted to agriculture. Large parts of the forest were used as a munitions depot between 1940 and 1949.[5] Re-planting with conifer plantations was modest by 1950s' standards, and today the Forestry Commission has engaged in a programme more sympathetic to the restoration and preservation of the ancient trees.
http://www.savernakeestate.co.uk/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savernake_Forest

https://www.forestry.gov.uk/savernake

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 30th November 2017 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 30th November 2017, 02:37 PM   #80
Horatius
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Yup, that pattern is found ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THE SAME SIZE AND SHAPE TOO!
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is as good as claiming that the existence of pyramids in different places in the world is evidence of aliens or something because obviously humans aren't smart enough to stack rocks in a structure that's good at not falling over.

It makes sense to plant fields in rectilinear patterns, because ploughs. It is not at all strange or unusual that populations in different, widely spread locations all independently discovered that when you put lots of straight plough lines together you get a rectangle.

And it makes even more sense when you consider the origins of the term "acre" for defining an area of land.

Quote:
The acre was roughly the amount of land tillable by a yoke of oxen in one day.[29] This explains one definition as the area of a rectangle with sides of length one chain and one furlong. A long, narrow strip of land is more efficient to plough than a square plot, since the plough does not have to be turned so often. The word "furlong" itself derives from the fact that it is one furrow long.

As with the pyramid example, it's not that surprising that farmers working with similar levels of technology came up with approximately equal solutions to the problems they faced, such as "What is the most efficient way to plow our fields?"
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Last edited by Horatius; 30th November 2017 at 02:38 PM.
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