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Old 30th November 2017, 04:05 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And it makes even more sense when you consider the origins of the term "acre" for defining an area of land.




As with the pyramid example, it's not that surprising that farmers working with similar levels of technology came up with approximately equal solutions to the problems they faced, such as "What is the most efficient way to plow our fields?"
Here are the remains of exactly the field layout you mention in the Pennines near Barnard Castle
https://goo.gl/maps/GqfDYTjtUzN2

and closer to my home at Hinderwell
https://goo.gl/maps/pb9uVVV2zqM2

You can see the very narrow strips that still exist and the wider strips where adjacent plats have been merged but all are long and narrow
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:14 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Thanks. You may have missed the original post in which KOTA said that it was an island north of England. I was simply pointing out that north of England is Scotland, which isn't an island.



Not the way anyone who knew what they were talking about would describe any of the Scottish Isles.
Congratulations, you completely missed the point.
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:19 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, no, it has ridge and furrow fields. You're wrong, and I am right.
Keep telling yourself that, Mr. Wrong.
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:22 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Congratulations, you completely missed the point.
I find this to be a perfectly fascinating historical description of British agriculture over the centuries, KoTA. I think it is you who has missed the point.
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:43 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I did, it's a country estate, farmed and landscaped. This is Britain, there's barely a square inch of land that hasn't been farmed, landscaped, developed, redeveloped, managed, or some combination of the above at some point, it is the third most populous island in the world. Looks like 19th century by the layout.
Oh I know! I love the old growth stuff!

Try to get here:

Lat. 51°22'45.86"N
Long. 1°40'39.28"W

or here:

Lat. 51°23'56.43"N
Long. 1°41'40.75"W
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:55 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I find this to be a perfectly fascinating historical description of British agriculture over the centuries, KoTA. I think it is you who has missed the point.
"over the centuries"...how many I wonder?

Also, these plots you've been tending to, do you guys travel the world planting the same styled plots everywhere???

Better yet, could you tell me who planted, then cleared, then replanted this forest?

AND, could you go to and look at this spot?

Lat. 55° 9'45.66"N
Long. 55° 9'45.66"N
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:09 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
So, you don't but probably modern as they are still easily found on google earth

So, not close or exact at all.

I still don't believe you think this is evidence of anything. It doesn't need to be debunked because its not evidence of anything other than a lot of folks have a habit growing crops in rectalinear fields.




Actually less compelling than a bunch of widespread ancient cultures figuring out that stacking rocks into mounds is the simplest way to make tall structures out of rocks.
The pyramids are visible with google earth, but they aren't modern. I use google earth because major terraforming leaves evidence you can only see from high above.

Google earth allows you to zoom in and measure in inches, feet, miles, whatever. The gardens I am looking for are 4/1 in size, so long as they appear in a grid, and are industrial size (more than 12 teams of oxen could plow in a day).

Debunked? There's nothing to debunk. I have a thesis, and I am looking for evidences. When I am done I'll report my findings. If you'd like to tell me where you live near, I'll give you a site to investigate?
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:12 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Close to what? You keep saying that the 'grid gardens' are all the same size, but you either won't say what that size is or you have mentioned '888ftx222ft' as the size you're referring, but given that you have posted undersea thingamajigs miles in diameter, it's clear that you can't possibly be referring to anything 888ft x 222ft as being the size in question.

But you can't and won't commit to any hard figures because it would be far too easy to disprove. Easier for you to just keep making vague claims about vague things being 'the same size and shape' without defining the shape and size you're referring to.
I am thinking any plot that is 4/1 length to width, that appears in a grid, and is industrial size, should 'count.'
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:16 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
"over the centuries"...how many I wonder?
Many. The information about the English Agricultural Revolution is available to even the most clueless of clods.

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
" Also, these plots you've been tending to, do you guys travel the world planting the same styled plots everywhere???
You're thinking of Johnny Appleseed. Take it up with him

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Better yet, could you tell me who planted, then cleared, then replanted this forest?
Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence. You haven't demonstrated planting, clearing, and replanting.

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post

AND, could you go to and look at this spot?

Lat. 55° 9'45.66"N
Long. 55° 9'45.66"N
Yes, I can. Do you have a specific question?
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:17 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And it makes even more sense when you consider the origins of the term "acre" for defining an area of land.




As with the pyramid example, it's not that surprising that farmers working with similar levels of technology came up with approximately equal solutions to the problems they faced, such as "What is the most efficient way to plow our fields?"
Perfect, so, I'm only including industrial sized plots, that exist in a grid.

I am defining industrial size, as "bigger than the work 12 men could do in one day." That's well over what a common wealthy family would be capable of, and represents civilization. Meaning you'd need an infrastructure to support that size 'single-plot.'

Agreed, or shall I amend?
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:21 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here are the remains of exactly the field layout you mention in the Pennines near Barnard Castle
https://goo.gl/maps/GqfDYTjtUzN2

and closer to my home at Hinderwell
https://goo.gl/maps/pb9uVVV2zqM2

You can see the very narrow strips that still exist and the wider strips where adjacent plats have been merged but all are long and narrow
Okay...look for old forest, the deep dark stuff, then look for clearings in the middle...if and when the sun is directly above the site, and it isn't covered with shade, sometimes there are stone circles or alters therein.
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:53 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Perfect, so, I'm only including industrial sized plots, that exist in a grid.

I am defining industrial size, as "bigger than the work 12 men could do in one day." That's well over what a common wealthy family would be capable of, and represents civilization. Meaning you'd need an infrastructure to support that size 'single-plot.'

Agreed, or shall I amend?
Your idiotic and unsupported definitions will have no more merit tomorrow than they have today. You'll redefine them tomorrow, so do what we both know you're going to do anyway.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:07 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And it makes even more sense when you consider the origins of the term "acre" for defining an area of land.........
See #46
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:25 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Oh I know! I love the old growth stuff!

Try to get here:

Lat. 51°22'45.86"N
Long. 1°40'39.28"W

or here:

Lat. 51°23'56.43"N
Long. 1°41'40.75"W
Are you interested in learning anything?

The thing is, Britain has a recorded history of farming and woodland management that goes back thousands of years. There isn't a square inch of these crowded islands which hasn't been influenced by human agriculture and woodland management practices in that time. When someone ignorant of this starts randomly picking landscape features they don't understand, with a seeming inability to comprehend the answers they are given, this isn't a hopeful start to a meaningful conversation.

The first location appears to be a post WWll conifer plantation in an otherwise broadleaf woodland. This was standard Forestry Commission practise until about the turn of the 21st century. It isn't an oddity that planted trees are planted in lines.

The second, in the same wood.........well, go look for yourself. It could be a plant nursery (this is a highly managed landscape, as you can see), or it could be another conifer plantation. Late 20th century, early 21st century.

Woodland management is a fascinating subject. It's a pity you seem to have an agenda here, because otherwise we could be discussing managed conversation of conifer plantations to native broadleafed woodland through partial clearing (30% seems to be the critical figure), wetland management, pond rehabilitation, and so on, without being distracted by gormless assertions of "grid gardens".
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:27 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Okay...look for old forest, the deep dark stuff, then look for clearings in the middle...if and when the sun is directly above the site, and it isn't covered with shade, sometimes there are stone circles or alters therein.
And? Have you heard of the paleolithic and neolithic eras? Avebury? Stonhenge? We are an island absolutely littered with ancient stoneworks.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:34 AM   #96
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Take a look at N 51.98066 E 0.740227

Is this the sort of feature that interests you?
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:38 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
......I am defining industrial size, as "bigger than the work 12 men could do in one day." That's well over what a common wealthy family would be capable of,........
So, you have no idea of Britain's social history, obviously. Most wealthy families until the 19th century had whole villages of workers they could call on to do whatever the hell they liked.

Oh, and how much land do you think that 12 men could work in a day? Given, of course, that one man can plough an acre in a day with a team of oxen and a couple of bits of wood. As you seem to be confusing woodland management, coppicing, pollarding, charcoal making and so on with agriculture, could you give us actual figures for the sort of areas you are talking about, and differentiate between woodlands, grazing land, and arable land.
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Old 1st December 2017, 02:08 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Oh I know! I love the old growth stuff!

Try to get here:

Lat. 51°22'45.86"N
Long. 1°40'39.28"W

or here:

Lat. 51°23'56.43"N
Long. 1°41'40.75"W
As I already posted a lot of the forest there was cleared in the 18th Century for farming and then some was replanted with Oak as there was concern that the supply for shipbuilding (very important in England as the Royal Navy alone consumed thousands of oak trees) There was more felling in ww1 and again in ww2 and then a lot of replanting from the 1950s onward.
It's the same story over much of the woodlands in Britain.
First written records are from Caesar and the later Roman invasions. A lot of ground was already cleared by the time they arrived.
Archaeology shows that the uplands of Dartmoor and similar were cleared by the Iron Age.
Most of the remaining woodland is replanting, there is very little 'real' ancient woodland left.
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Old 1st December 2017, 02:19 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
......Most of the remaining woodland is replanting, there is very little 'real' ancient woodland left.
Indeed. So much so that anything over 400 years old is categorised as "ancient". Henry Vlll depleted Britain's oak forests to almost nothing in building his navy, at the same time as the "great rebuilding" of Britain's housing stock was occurring.
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Old 1st December 2017, 02:28 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Debunked? There's nothing to debunk. I have a thesis, and I am looking for evidences. When I am done I'll report my findings. If you'd like to tell me where you live near, I'll give you a site to investigate?
Please do, I'm looking forward to it.

It's got to be hard though, because you've also promised evidence for previous theses, like the location of Atlantis, the other location of Atlantis, the presence of Jews in bronze age Spain, Göbekli Tepe was built by an agrarian society, some Moai were quarried from the sea floor, there are underwater roads from Easter Island to Chile, and of course: space aliens will visit us during the eclipse, and so on.

I mean, you are still gathering the promised evidence and writing the promised theses, right?
Otherwise I'm not sure I can have a lot of faith in your current claim...
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Old 1st December 2017, 02:31 AM   #101
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Just announced on the local news that a new forest is to be created in Northumberland
at Doddington North Moor near Wooler. It is to extend the Kyloe red squirrel buffer zone and increasing habitat supportive to red squirrels. It will also provide flood mitigation measures, as two tributaries for the Till flood plain below the site in Glendale start on the moor.
600,000 new broadleaf trees will be planted to link some existing timber stands on a 354-hectare site. It will take one season to plant so completed by the end of next year.

If it had been done thirty years ago then no doubt it would be evidence of something ancient.
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Old 1st December 2017, 02:38 AM   #102
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Yes, I heard that earlier. It's more good news. Re-wilding really is a thing.......

As for the red squirrels, there was a brilliant trial run in Wales a year or two back, in a woodland with a handful of clinging-on-by-their-fingertips red squirrels and a huge population of greys. They introduced pine martens.

Within 2 or three years there were no grey squirrels, and the wood was full of reds. The martens can catch the slow and heavy greys, but the reds simply sit on the highest furthest-out flimsy branches, where the martens can't get to them. I hope there are therefore enough conifers planted in this new woodland such that pine martens can thrive.

Some sciency stuff.

The Gradiaun

The Ecologist

Unfortunately I can't find anything on the Wales case-study.
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Old 1st December 2017, 03:04 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just off the A4? It's the Savernake Estate.
Savernake Forest, lying between Marlborough and Hungerford, is privately-owned by the Earl of Cardigan, his son Viscount Savernake and his family Trustees. It extends to some 4,500 acres, and is the only-privately owned Forest in Britain. Much of its timber rights are leased to the Forestry Commission. Running right through the middle of the Forest is Capability Brown's 'Grand Avenue'. This avenue of beech trees - now a Private Road - was laid out in the late 1790's, and at just over 4 miles long it stands in the Guinness Book of Records as the longest Avenue in Britain.
A lot of it is replanting


http://www.savernakeestate.co.uk/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savernake_Forest

https://www.forestry.gov.uk/savernake
Thanks, plenty of history, not so much mystery!

Of course the irony is that there are some genuinely ancient (and very impressive) ancient features around that area, Silbury Hill, Avebury, The Avenues, West Kennet Long Barrow, none of them are rectangular fields though.
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Old 1st December 2017, 03:07 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Please do, I'm looking forward to it.

It's got to be hard though, because you've also promised evidence for previous theses, like the location of Atlantis, the other location of Atlantis, the presence of Jews in bronze age Spain, Göbekli Tepe was built by an agrarian society, some Moai were quarried from the sea floor, there are underwater roads from Easter Island to Chile, and of course: space aliens will visit us during the eclipse, and so on.

I mean, you are still gathering the promised evidence and writing the promised theses, right?
Otherwise I'm not sure I can have a lot of faith in your current claim...
And compelling evidence of telepathy plus a convincing demonstration of the same.
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Old 1st December 2017, 04:57 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Many. The information about the English Agricultural Revolution is available to even the most clueless of clods.



You're thinking of Johnny Appleseed. Take it up with him



Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence. You haven't demonstrated planting, clearing, and replanting.



Yes, I can. Do you have a specific question?
Who planted that forest?

No, I am talking about the face that plots just like the English one pop up everywhere.

Demonstrate planting? Did you look at it using google earth. It was definitely planted, gutted, then partially replanted recently.

REALLY people...at least look at the site before dismissing my claims as unfounded or inaccurate.

Yes, for when you get back: "What did you see, and diid you take pictures?"
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:02 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
.....REALLY people...at least look at the site before dismissing my claims as unfounded or inaccurate......
You haven't made any claims. That's one of the problems here. We have no idea why you think standard landscape features are interesting other than out of curiosity.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:27 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Your idiotic and unsupported definitions will have no more merit tomorrow than they have today. You'll redefine them tomorrow, so do what we both know you're going to do anyway.
*They are Biblical, and represent the landsite of a King.

Pfft As if.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:27 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
For KOTA. Here are some 'Grid Gardens' Do they qualify? They cover a vast area.

https://goo.gl/maps/iyh2kPKpBvF2
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Vierhouten's southern forest is a much better example.
What exactly is Vierhouten's southern forest? Vierhouten is a small village with 711 inhabitants whose main claim to fame is a camping ground which for years hosted the Dutch Labour Party's youth wing. I don't see anything resembling "southern forest" on that wiki page.

But I'd really like you to comment on the link Captain Swoop gave. How old are those "grid gardens" and who made them? I really like to get educated on ancient Dutch agricultural history, and I think Porpoise of Life and ErwinL as well.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:29 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Are you interested in learning anything?

The thing is, Britain has a recorded history of farming and woodland management that goes back thousands of years. There isn't a square inch of these crowded islands which hasn't been influenced by human agriculture and woodland management practices in that time. When someone ignorant of this starts randomly picking landscape features they don't understand, with a seeming inability to comprehend the answers they are given, this isn't a hopeful start to a meaningful conversation.

The first location appears to be a post WWll conifer plantation in an otherwise broadleaf woodland. This was standard Forestry Commission practise until about the turn of the 21st century. It isn't an oddity that planted trees are planted in lines.

The second, in the same wood.........well, go look for yourself. It could be a plant nursery (this is a highly managed landscape, as you can see), or it could be another conifer plantation. Late 20th century, early 21st century.

Woodland management is a fascinating subject. It's a pity you seem to have an agenda here, because otherwise we could be discussing managed conversation of conifer plantations to native broadleafed woodland through partial clearing (30% seems to be the critical figure), wetland management, pond rehabilitation, and so on, without being distracted by gormless assertions of "grid gardens".
I am referring to the object(s) in the clearing or opening, not the forests themselves, in this case.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:35 AM   #110
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Am I the only one confused as to what the point of this thread is.

Farmers make fields which are often bounded by straight lines?
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:39 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And? Have you heard of the paleolithic and neolithic eras? Avebury? Stonhenge? We are an island absolutely littered with ancient stoneworks.
I KNOW, and the oldest stuff contains concentric stone circles and grid gardens.

My NEW amended thesis:

"Should industrial-sized and similarly shaped grid gardens alongside concentric stone circles, that appear in remote locations, be interpreted as evidence of advanced agriculture with global interconnectivity, known as Atlantis found in Mauritania, Africa?"
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:44 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Am I the only one confused as to what the point of this thread is.

Farmers make fields which are often bounded by straight lines?
Nou you're not. It appears that the thread is deliberately pointless, as to allow OP to claim just about anything without having to support it, and then circle back around to Atlantis for some reason.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:45 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So what...???

The Earth was plowed, then planted!

Even the rainforests!

I'd say that's an important historical fact.
Going back a bit away from the obviously man made (over the last few thousand years since the agricultural revolution) fields.

This image that is claimed to show that the rain forests were ploughed and planted. Assuming the picture is a rainforest, my thought is that it's an artifact of the way that Google Earth images are stitched together from a patchwork of pictures taken from satellites and planes.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:47 AM   #114
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Have you been to Mauritania, KOTA? Because I have. I've traveled extensively around the country. You're talking to someone who knows a damn sight more about the place than you do. I'm going to be looking with interest in any claims you have about agriculture in Mauritania.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:48 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I am referring to the object(s) in the clearing or opening, not the forests themselves, in this case.
Show me a screenshot of what you mean, then, because there are not even any clearings as far as I can see at the locations you give.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:49 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I KNOW, and the oldest stuff contains concentric stone circles and grid gardens.

My NEW amended thesis:

"Should industrial-sized and similarly shaped grid gardens alongside concentric stone circles, that appear in remote locations, be interpreted as evidence of advanced agriculture with global interconnectivity, known as Atlantis found in Mauritania, Africa?"
Atlantis in Mauritania? You've previously located Atlantis in Spain, in Morocco, in the Eastern Mediterranean, and in the Atlantic ocean.
So I have hard time talking this new 'find' very seriously.
Especially since the thing you claim is a city, is actually a geological formation, which was pointed out to you at least three times in the last few days.

Also, to answer your question: no.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:49 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Indeed. So much so that anything over 400 years old is categorised as "ancient". Henry Vlll depleted Britain's oak forests to almost nothing in building his navy, at the same time as the "great rebuilding" of Britain's housing stock was occurring.
Is that who gutted the forest east of Manchester?
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:52 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
.........

Lat. 55° 9'45.66"N
Long. 55° 9'45.66"N
This isn't a lat/ long. You need an easting.
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:54 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just announced on the local news that a new forest is to be created in Northumberland
at Doddington North Moor near Wooler. It is to extend the Kyloe red squirrel buffer zone and increasing habitat supportive to red squirrels. It will also provide flood mitigation measures, as two tributaries for the Till flood plain below the site in Glendale start on the moor.
600,000 new broadleaf trees will be planted to link some existing timber stands on a 354-hectare site. It will take one season to plant so completed by the end of next year.

If it had been done thirty years ago then no doubt it would be evidence of something ancient.
600,000...? That's IT???

The first plantation I found has over 8 million trees in the middle of a desert!!
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Old 1st December 2017, 05:55 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
This isn't a lat/ long. You need an easting.
Sorry, what was the point to, again? :/
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