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View Poll Results: Is Emotion or Intellect more Useful and BenefiIím not sure/donít know/cial to Humans?
Emotion 0 0%
Intellect. 13 32.50%
They are equally useful and beneficial. 20 50.00%
Iím not sure/donít know/donít care (Planet X). 7 17.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th January 2018, 07:22 PM   #41
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Ynot, was it some emotion that prompted you to start this thread?
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:30 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Emotion, not intellect, is the driving urge to discover.
Provide proof of that.

Is sexual desire an emotion or an instinct?

Is desire an emotion? (Google that)

Is emotional desire the same thing as intellectual desire?
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Emotionally, I'm horrified at the existential danger we "rational beings" have placed ourselves in. Nuclear armageddon is just a sunlight-glinting-off-a-satellite away. That is, if we don't deliberately destroy ourselves.

And we are on track to warm the planet to an insanely dangerous point.

Say what you want about dogs, but they seem pretty happy, and they're not a threat to the survival of all life on earth. Intellect is overrated.
And how would "irrational beings" have done better?
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:33 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Surely an increase in intellect would automatically be at the expense of emotions. Emotions aren't just about happy, happy, joy, joy. They're also about favoring fantasy beliefs and superstitions over the evidence of reality for emotional comfort (aka paranormal beliefs). There's evidence that increased intellect (education) decreases emotionally inspired paranormal beliefs and superstitions.
I'm not really sure this is true. Is it emotion that made believers out of people?
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Ynot, was it some emotion that prompted you to start this thread?
Is that question emotionally important to you?
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:37 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Provide proof of that.

Is sexual desire an emotion or an instinct?

Is desire an emotion? (Google that)

Is emotional desire the same thing as intellectual desire?
You presented emotion and intellect as a dichotomy. Of those I would certainly put desire of any kind in the emotional category.
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:39 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not really sure this is true. Is it emotion that made believers out of people?
Belief is lack of knowledge. Intellect enables an increase in knowledge and therefore enables less need for belief. When emotion overrides intellect knowledge is harder to gain and beliefs are more likely.
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:41 PM   #48
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This is a false dichotomy. Our brains are complete systems not competing emotions and intellect at battle with each other for some victory.

Emotional states evolved to give us a mental state to judge how certain things are going. Love exists because emotional bonds are important for social animals. Fear exists because some things are to be avoided. Curiosity (pedantics of whether or not that's a "true" emotion or not aside) exists because a being that is curious is simply more successful. Our emotions might not be "intellectual" by a narrow definition of the word, but they aren't anti-intellectual nor are they these mystical forces that operate outside or against our intellects. They are, speaking very layman here, simply a lower, more basic for of intellectual almost on the same level as a reflex.

It's basically an anti-intellectual strawman, trying to get those "uppity intellectuals" to admit they use things outside of some overly narrow definition of "intellect" as some sort of gotcha.

Recognize what your emotions are trying to tell you and why they might be "going off" in a certain situation and they actually work very well with what is traditionally though of as "intellect" or reason.
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:47 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Belief is lack of knowledge. Intellect enables an increase in knowledge and therefore enables less need for belief. When emotion overrides intellect knowledge is harder to gain and beliefs are more likely.
I disagree with your definition. Belief is what you believe to be true. Some beliefs have a more rational basis than others. Faith is belief without evidence.

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Old 4th January 2018, 07:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I disagree with your definition.
That's your right.
Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Belief is what you believe to be true.
Knowledge is what you know to be true.
Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Some beliefs have a more rational basis than others.
So what? Knowledge has a more rational basis than belief.
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Old 4th January 2018, 07:58 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I disagree with your definition.
I agree that my definition was inadequate. Here's a better one . . .

Belief is the lack of sufficient evidence to allow a thing to be classified as knowledge.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:05 PM   #52
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I'm pretty sure that 85% of what we call intellect is really emotion.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Knowledge is what you know to be true.
Someoneís level of certainty regarding their beliefs has little connection with the truth of those beliefs.

(I apologize for being disagreeable.)
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Someoneís level of certainty regarding their beliefs has little connection with the truth of those beliefs.
Exactly! Level of certainty regarding beliefs is usually called faith. Especially with paranormal beliefs (beliefs that couldn't be true anyway).

Level of credibility of evidence has a strong connection with truth of knowledge.

How do you define the difference between belief and knowledge? Or do you conflate the two?

Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
(I apologize for being disagreeable.)
Thanks, but no need to apologize. Disagreeing is what debates are all about.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:38 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
How do you define the difference between belief and knowledge? Or do you conflate the two?
I usually consider knowledge to be belief backed up by strong evidence, basically the opposite of faith.

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Old 4th January 2018, 08:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I'm pretty sure that 85% of what we call intellect is really emotion.
Or perhaps emotion is 85% intellect? Let's just call them both "emotigence" and say they're the same coin.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:59 PM   #57
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The OP is based upon a false premise which assumes one is more beneficial than the other. Sometimes logic is preferable
and sometimes emotion is. Neither can be universally applied. The answer therefore is that both are equally as beneficial
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Old 4th January 2018, 09:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I usually consider knowledge to be belief backed up by strong evidence, basically the opposite of faith.
Let's say that's your definition of knowledge then.

What's your definition of belief?
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Old 4th January 2018, 09:39 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by surreptitious57 View Post
The OP is based upon a false premise which assumes one is more beneficial than the other. Sometimes logic is preferable
and sometimes emotion is. Neither can be universally applied. The answer therefore is that both are equally as beneficial
Can you read and comprehend the English language?

There is clearly a poll option for what you claim there isn't.

"They are equally useful and beneficial"

I've made it bigger and bold to help you out.
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Old 4th January 2018, 10:08 PM   #60
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Well, I really don't know what a human with 100% intellect and 0% emotion (or the opposite) would look like, the extremes are obviously nonsensical.

In my experience though, I'd say if you could up the intellect and lower the emotion of everyone quite a bit, we would certainly be a lot better off.
I wonder where you would run into the laws of diminishing returns and how.
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Old 4th January 2018, 10:43 PM   #61
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Reducing negative emotion while increasing positive emotion rather than reducing all emotion. The same for logic although
tempering it with emotion makes it rather problematic if compartmentalism insists up on them being kept entirely separate
Something that the corpus callosum might object to. For while it is sometimes black and white it can be shades of grey too
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Old 4th January 2018, 10:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Well, I really don't know what a human with 100% intellect and 0% emotion (or the opposite) would look like, the extremes are obviously nonsensical.
Just as well the poll has nothing to do with such extremes then.
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Old 4th January 2018, 11:08 PM   #63
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Positive logic when logic is required and positive emotion when emotion is required. Also allowing for a margin
of error to account for the fact that human beings are doing the thinking here since they do not always choose
the right option. Because without any experience or knowledge of human nature the question is just academic
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:23 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by surreptitious57 View Post
Positive logic when logic is required and positive emotion when emotion is required. Also allowing for a margin
of error to account for the fact that human beings are doing the thinking here since they do not always choose
the right option. Because without any experience or knowledge of human nature the question is just academic
Please give examples of positive and negative logic (not of the digital system type).

And do you use logic as a replacement for intellect?
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:41 AM   #65
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Both emotion and intellect are necessary but not sufficient parts of the human condition.
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:44 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
You presented emotion and intellect as a dichotomy. Of those I would certainly put desire of any kind in the emotional category.
Then every species that has sexual desire has emotions.
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Old 5th January 2018, 01:03 AM   #67
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Positive logic is logic applied with positive moral consequences / Negative logic is logic applied with negative moral consequences
I do not use logic as a substitute for emotion but I try to contain negative emotion as much as possible by simply being detached
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Old 5th January 2018, 01:11 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Then every species that has sexual desire has emotions.
First off, you should learn to differentiate between feelings and emotions. Read up on it if you need.

Secondly, is pain or hunger intellectual? No, the base needs (not wants) (read up on that if you need to) as per Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html are tied to feelings and emotions. So are wants btw.
Further if you look at this theory: Moral Foundations Theory http://www.moralfoundations.org/ you will again find emotions/feelings as a part of it.
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Old 5th January 2018, 01:17 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by surreptitious57 View Post
Positive logic is logic applied with positive moral consequences / Negative logic is logic applied with negative moral consequences
Given positive/negative and moral/amoral are subjective, and logic is objective, saying positive or negative logic seems a very loose and contradictory use of the term logic.

Originally Posted by surreptitious57 View Post
I do not use logic as a substitute for emotion but I try to contain negative emotion as much as possible by simply being detached
I asked if you were using logic as a replacement for intellect.
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Old 5th January 2018, 01:35 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
First off, you should learn to differentiate between feelings and emotions. Read up on it if you need.
Definition of feeling - an emotional state or reaction. - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/feeling

Emotions - any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc. - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/emotions

You should explain how they differentiate. Read up on it if you need.

Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Secondly, is pain or hunger intellectual? No, the base needs (not wants) (read up on that if you need to) as per Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html are tied to feelings and emotions. So are wants btw.
Further if you look at this theory: Moral Foundations Theory http://www.moralfoundations.org/ you will again find emotions/feelings as a part of it.
Why do you abruptly switch from emotional to intellectual? And what has Moral Foundations Theory got to do with - "Then every species that has sexual desire has emotions."
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Old 5th January 2018, 02:34 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Definition of feeling - an emotional state or reaction. - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/feeling

Emotions - any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc. - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/emotions

You explain how they differentiate. Read up on it if you need.


Why do you abruptly switch from emotional to intellectual?
The truth of reality!

I am going to explain something to you. For you to understand it, it requires an intellect on your part and you have to be open to learn something new, which contradicts what you know already. That is a part of learning, sometimes but not always learning means that you have to change what you know in that, what you knew before, you stop doing it, because you know differently now.
Open a search engine, type "the difference between feelings and emotions", choose one of the links which seems credible.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ng-and-emotion

Now stop using dictionaries as they were truth. An example is that there is a dictionary which lists atheism to mean amoral. Now what you can learn from that is a dictionary a list of how words are used in a common sense, but that doesn't make what a dictionary says true. A dictionary only lists the common usage of words.

Now something about necessary versus sufficient conditions in regards to reality. http://philosophy.wisc.edu/hausman/3...ll/nec-suf.htm
Both emotion and intellect are necessary but not sufficient conditions if you want to describe reality. So is gravity, but again gravity is necessary but not sufficient in describing reality.
So to answer your question: Is Emotion or Intellect more Useful and Beneficial to Humans?
It depends on whether you use "Useful and Beneficial" in a qualitative or quantitative manner of if you haven't thought about it and treat qualitative and quantitative as the same. They are not and so here are the answers:
Qualitative: Emotions/feelings
Quantitative: Intellect
Both qualitative and quantitative: Can't be answered, because they are different ways of using brains and there is no scientific theory about how to convert between qualitative and quantitative.

In other words qualitative and quantitative are both necessary but not sufficient conditions when you want to describe reality.
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Old 5th January 2018, 02:43 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
The truth of reality!

I am going to explain something to you. For you to understand it, it requires an intellect on your part and you have to be open to learn something new, which contradicts what you know already. That is a part of learning, sometimes but not always learning means that you have to change what you know in that, what you knew before, you stop doing it, because you know differently now.
Open a search engine, type "the difference between feelings and emotions", choose one of the links which seems credible.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ng-and-emotion

Now stop using dictionaries as they were truth. An example is that there is a dictionary which lists atheism to mean amoral. Now what you can learn from that is a dictionary a list of how words are used in a common sense, but that doesn't make what a dictionary says true. A dictionary only lists the common usage of words.

Now something about necessary versus sufficient conditions in regards to reality. http://philosophy.wisc.edu/hausman/3...ll/nec-suf.htm
Both emotion and intellect are necessary but not sufficient conditions if you want to describe reality. So is gravity, but again gravity is necessary but not sufficient in describing reality.
So to answer your question: Is Emotion or Intellect more Useful and Beneficial to Humans?
It depends on whether you use "Useful and Beneficial" in a qualitative or quantitative manner of if you haven't thought about it and treat qualitative and quantitative as the same. They are not and so here are the answers:
Qualitative: Emotions/feelings
Quantitative: Intellect
Both qualitative and quantitative: Can't be answered, because they are different ways of using brains and there is no scientific theory about how to convert between qualitative and quantitative.

In other words qualitative and quantitative are both necessary but not sufficient conditions when you want to describe reality.
tl;dr
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Old 5th January 2018, 02:48 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
tl;dr
Feelings and emotions are not the same. Emotion and intellect are both human behavior but neither trumps the other. They are useful and beneficial for different reasons.

Now don't ask for evidence, because that is tl;dr
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Old 5th January 2018, 03:15 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Well, I really don't know what a human with 100% intellect and 0% emotion (or the opposite) would look like, the extremes are obviously nonsensical.

In my experience though, I'd say if you could up the intellect and lower the emotion of everyone quite a bit, we would certainly be a lot better off.
I wonder where you would run into the laws of diminishing returns and how.
And let's face it we often simply don't like what our intellect tells us we should be doing. That's when the conflict between intellect and emotion happens.

If I say I want an end to climate change and I want to preserve the biosphere pretty much as it is now, my intellect tells me that I along with most people should decide to end our lives. All we should be discussing is which people should not kill themselves. Which is obviously something we aren't going to do for emotional reasons. What is quite ironic is how we will then use our intellect to provide a rationale for why we shouldn't apply the logical solution either personally or as a species.
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Old 5th January 2018, 05:34 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Feelings and emotions are not the same. Emotion and intellect are both human behavior but neither trumps the other. They are useful and beneficial for different reasons.

Now don't ask for evidence, because that is tl;dr
I wasn't going to ask you for evidence.
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Old 5th January 2018, 01:55 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201412/whats-the-difference-between-feeling-and-emotion
“What’s the Difference Between a Feeling and an Emotion? - Pain is a feeling but not an emotion.”
What a crock! Discussing emotions and intellect is discussing the thought processes of the brain, NOT the sensory processes of nerve endings sending impulses to the brain. This shouldn’t have to be explained.

“Today, the emotions are so neglected that most people are oblivious to the deep currents that move them, hold them back, and lead them astray.”
Reading that introductory emotions biased crap made it harder to read further (but I did). Didn’t find anything that showed a difference between thought feelings and emotions. Did find a lot of emotions biased crap that continues to conflate sensory feelings and thought feelings.

Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
so here are the answers:
Qualitative: Emotions/feelings
Quantitative: Intellect
No, not answers at all, merely biased definitions of words to suit your argument.

Why can things not equally be intellectually qualitative?
Why can things not equally be emotionally quantitative?

Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Both qualitative and quantitative: Can't be answered, because they are different ways of using brains and there is no scientific theory about how to convert between qualitative and quantitative.
"The sky is falling" crap! That the brain may have some difficulty working with qualitative and quantitative simultaneously doesn’t mean the brain can’t work with both (emotionally and intellectually). Converting between qualitative and quantitative is merely a simple thought process of choice.

I think consulting modern dictionaries to find current usage and meanings of words is at least more honest than making things up to suit your argument.

Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
In other words qualitative and quantitative are both necessary but not sufficient conditions when you want to describe reality.
What is/are the missing piece(s) of the puzzle that is/are sufficient to allow us to fully describe reality then?

ETA - This poll is about emotions and intellect, NOT about qualitative and quantitative.
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Old 5th January 2018, 03:06 PM   #77
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I haven't read the thread so it may have been mentioned, but I recall a number of experiments involving people with compromised emotional responses. It found that emotion was essential in order to make a decision, even when the decision apparently only required logic, or was arbitrary. On being asked to pick up any one of three objects a person with no emotional response was unable to even make the attempt, despite being able to offer a logical assessment of the options.
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Old 5th January 2018, 03:40 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Feelings and emotions are not the same.
In the context of this thread they are the same. Sensory feelings are not relevant to what is being discussed.
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Old 5th January 2018, 03:41 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I haven't read the thread so it may have been mentioned, but I recall a number of experiments involving people with compromised emotional responses. It found that emotion was essential in order to make a decision, even when the decision apparently only required logic, or was arbitrary. On being asked to pick up any one of three objects a person with no emotional response was unable to even make the attempt, despite being able to offer a logical assessment of the options.
Not of any use without detail of the expermiments.
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Old 5th January 2018, 05:19 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
ďWhatís the Difference Between a Feeling and an Emotion? - Pain is a feeling but not an emotion.Ē
What a crock! Discussing emotions and intellect is discussing the thought processes of the brain, NOT the sensory processes of nerve endings sending impulses to the brain. This shouldnít have to be explained.

ďToday, the emotions are so neglected that most people are oblivious to the deep currents that move them, hold them back, and lead them astray.Ē
Reading that introductory emotions biased crap made it harder to read further (but I did). Didnít find anything that showed a difference between thought feelings and emotions. Did find a lot of emotions biased crap that continues to conflate sensory feelings and thought feelings.


No, not answers at all, merely biased definitions of words to suit your argument.

Why can things not equally be intellectually qualitative?
Why can things not equally be emotionally quantitative?


"The sky is falling" crap! That the brain may have some difficulty working with qualitative and quantitative simultaneously doesnít mean the brain canít work with both (emotionally and intellectually). Converting between qualitative and quantitative is merely a simple thought process of choice.

I think consulting modern dictionaries to find current usage and meanings of words is at least more honest than making things up to suit your argument.


What is/are the missing piece(s) of the puzzle that is/are sufficient to allow us to fully describe reality then?

ETA - This poll is about emotions and intellect, NOT about qualitative and quantitative.
For someone so hostile towards emotion, you sure display a lot of it.
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