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Old 10th January 2018, 04:06 AM   #1
ponderingturtle
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"Black" man wanted for police killing turns out to be white.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/201...ut-to-be-white

At least if the angry cops mistakenly killed innocent blacks they would be able to get away with it.
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:34 AM   #2
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First they came for the blacks, then they came for the mixed, and now the non-blondes appear to be next in line.
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:37 AM   #3
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:16 AM   #4
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Witnesses are often totally wrong, unfortunately.
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
First they came for the blacks, then they came for the mixed, and now the non-blondes appear to be next in line.
Which naturally leads one to ask What's Up? What's going on?
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:18 AM   #6
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http://q13fox.com/2018/01/09/why-did...fice-explains/

Why did description of suspect in deputy’s killing change so dramatically? The sheriff’s department explains
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://q13fox.com/2018/01/09/why-did...fice-explains/

Why did description of suspect in deputy’s killing change so dramatically? The sheriff’s department explains
Got it, it is because to the police, only blacks wear hoodies. So they see someone in a hoodie, he has to be black.
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got it, it is because to the police, only blacks wear hoodies. So they see someone in a hoodie, he has to be black.
Yeah, I know you're playing the usual game, but you might try reading the article properly. The police collected witness statements, and the witnesses they initially interviewed thought he was black. When they later found witnesses who'd seen him more closely, those witnesses said he was of white or mixed race appearance. The police seem just to have worked with the information they'd been given.

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Old 10th January 2018, 06:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Yeah, I know you're playing the usual game, but you might try reading the article properly. The police collected witness statements, and the witnesses they initially interviewed thought he was black. When they later found witnesses who'd seen him more closely, those witnesses said he was of white or mixed race appearance. The police seem just to have worked with the information they'd been given.

Dave
And were those witnesses also police officers who saw a white man as a black man?
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:43 AM   #10
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I think that the black ski mask worn in the darkness of night was the problem for a witness on the street.
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:54 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And were those witnesses also police officers who saw a white man as a black man?
No. Again, actually reading the articles rather than projecting my biases on to them, it appears that the only police officer to see the murderer was also the murder victim, and so wasn't able to give a witness statement on account of being dead.

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Old 10th January 2018, 06:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Police Twitter
curly dark hair in ponytail, large pointy nose, pock marks on right side of face
None of that was accurate.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
None of that was accurate.
No. One might even suspect that eyewitness accounts are sometimes unreliable. But given that those were the statements made by witnesses and were all the police had to go on, and that they circulated more accurate information as soon as they had it, I find it a bit difficult to see what they should have done differently, at least in this specific instance.

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Old 10th January 2018, 07:30 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
No. One might even suspect that eyewitness accounts are sometimes unreliable. But given that those were the statements made by witnesses and were all the police had to go on, and that they circulated more accurate information as soon as they had it, I find it a bit difficult to see what they should have done differently, at least in this specific instance.

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Old 10th January 2018, 07:41 AM   #15
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It seems clear to me that the police would deliberately thwart their own investigations in order to draw attention to their own racism.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:51 AM   #16
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Pawul was initially arrested just for his warrants.

He was connected to the shooting of the deputy later, when he was already in jail.

The manhunt was ongoing while Pawul was in jail.

Pawul looks considerably different now than in the popular booking photo. You can tell from the video of him being arraigned in this case. You can see that he has a lot longer hair.

They have not shown his face in court because of the poor descriptions of the suspect given by witnesses, causing his attorney to claim that Pawul is not the suspect, and getting the court to agree to hide his face.

Given the way the case unfolded. I think it's reasonable to think Pawul could be the wrong guy.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I think that the black ski mask worn in the darkness of night was the problem for a witness on the street.
I too often feel no choice but to tentatively decide that a person is black when their face is obscured by a ski mask.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:55 AM   #18
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They also will not name the female driver, for some reason. Even though they have already said that she knew they were going there to commit an armed robbery.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I too often feel no choice but to tentatively decide that a person is black when their face is obscured my a ski mask.
Yeah I would never fail to realize it was a ski mask in the dark, and think it was dark skin.
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Old 10th January 2018, 07:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Given the way the case unfolded. I think it's reasonable to think Pawul could be the wrong guy.
At the time that the lawyer said you've got the wrong guy he doesn't match the description, the Sheriff already had Pawul's cellphone with texts to his girlfriend which implicated him. Uh yeah, we have the right guy.
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Old 10th January 2018, 08:00 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
At the time that the lawyer said you've got the wrong guy he doesn't match the description, the Sheriff already had Pawul's cellphone with texts to his girlfriend which implicated him. Uh yeah, we have the right guy.
Must have been after the arraignment then.
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Old 10th January 2018, 08:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They also will not name the female driver, for some reason. Even though they have already said that she knew they were going there to commit an armed robbery.
I read that the reason she hasn't been named is because they have not yet charged her for anything. She's said to be cooperating.
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Old 10th January 2018, 08:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I read that the reason she hasn't been named is because they have not yet charged her for anything. She's said to be cooperating.
I guess they are going to give her a deal, which seems odd given that a cop was killed.

Given his hair length, Pawul could have had a pony tail during the crime.
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Old 10th January 2018, 08:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got it, it is because to the police, only blacks wear hoodies. So they see someone in a hoodie, he has to be black.
Dear Abby:

I am white and I have a hoodie - It advertises the National Museum of African American Culture and History.....So, Abby, should I be concerned????

Concerned (?) in Orlando
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Old 10th January 2018, 10:26 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Yeah, I know you're playing the usual game, but you might try reading the article properly. The police collected witness statements, and the witnesses they initially interviewed thought he was black. When they later found witnesses who'd seen him more closely, those witnesses said he was of white or mixed race appearance.
Yeah - except that the witnesses they "later found" were the actually robbery victims (the robbery being the crime police were initially called for and responded to). So if they managed not to interview and get a suspect description from the actual victims until the next morning, one has to wonder who exactly the witnesses they got their initial Black Man description from were, and what their connection was to any of the events.
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Old 10th January 2018, 02:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yeah - except that the witnesses they "later found" were the actually robbery victims (the robbery being the crime police were initially called for and responded to). So if they managed not to interview and get a suspect description from the actual victims until the next morning, one has to wonder who exactly the witnesses they got their initial Black Man description from were, and what their connection was to any of the events.
Great question. Wonder if any answer will be forthcoming?????
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Old 10th January 2018, 02:59 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/201...ut-to-be-white

At least if the angry cops mistakenly killed innocent blacks they would be able to get away with it.
Race is just a social construct. /thread
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yeah - except that the witnesses they "later found" were the actually robbery victims (the robbery being the crime police were initially called for and responded to). So if they managed not to interview and get a suspect description from the actual victims until the next morning, one has to wonder who exactly the witnesses they got their initial Black Man description from were, and what their connection was to any of the events.
The "actual" victim of the shooting was the dead cop. The Sheriff's office got the erroneous description of the shooter from the witnesses to the shooting, who were not the same people as the robbery victims. their connection to the event was that they told the police they witnessed the shooting.
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:35 PM   #29
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Can someone offer a good reason why a police department would release such a completely useless description of suspects? "We have determined that 2 suspects were involved in the incident - 1 white male, 1 black male." Might as well describe them as "human with an estimated 5 digits at the end of each extremity."

Would that tweet have made it justifiable for people to call the police if they saw any pair of males where one was white and one was black?

But, of course, it comes from a sheriff's department and we should all realize that sheriff's departments are the definition of incompetence and grandstanding.
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Can someone offer a good reason why a police department would release such a completely useless description of suspects? "We have determined that 2 suspects were involved in the incident - 1 white male, 1 black male." Might as well describe them as "human with an estimated 5 digits at the end of each extremity."

Would that tweet have made it justifiable for people to call the police if they saw any pair of males where one was white and one was black?

But, of course, it comes from a sheriff's department and we should all realize that sheriff's departments are the definition of incompetence and grandstanding.
No because they said that the white suspects was dead at the scene, and that was the extent of information that they had from the witnesses to the shooting at the time of the tweet.

Although, solid point about grandstanding when they were investigating the shooting death of one of their own Deputies.

This is easily one of the most ridiculous threads that have ever been posted on this website, and that is really saying something.
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No because they said that the white suspects was dead at the scene, and that was the extent of information that they had from the witnesses to the shooting at the time of the tweet.

Although, solid point about grandstanding when they were investigating the shooting death of one of their own Deputies.

This is easily one of the most ridiculous threads that have ever been posted on this website, and that is really saying something.
Why tweet anything if the only information they can provide is completely useless? Why can't police departments, especially sheriff's departments, just shut their stupid mouths when they have nothing productive to say?
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Why tweet anything if the only information they can provide is completely useless? Why can't police departments, especially sheriff's departments, just shut their stupid mouths when they have nothing productive to say?
The fact that you find it useless does not actually, you know, make it useless.

Lets take a look:

"#PCSD deputy shot by unidentified suspect while responding to 911 call of intruder at house on 200th St. E. in Frederickson area. Unidentified suspect is a black male, fled on foot, not in custody. Large area of containment, active K9 search taking place. http://bit.ly/2qH11U6"

that was the first tweet that contained a wealth of information, wouldn't you agree and clearly would have been EXTREMELY USEFUL to the media. This should be obvious.

here's another:

"Roads are closed from 176th St. E. to 200th St. E &, 38th Ave. E. to Canyon Rd. E. as search continues for armed & dangerous unidentified suspect in fatal shooting of #PCSD deputy. Expect roads to be closed for several hours."

But you have declared them to have "stupid mouths," apparently without reading all of the texts in context. They also reported that their Officer was dead while posting these informational tweets with their "stupid mouths."
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Can someone offer a good reason why a police department would release such a completely useless description of suspects? "We have determined that 2 suspects were involved in the incident - 1 white male, 1 black male." Might as well describe them as "human with an estimated 5 digits at the end of each extremity."

Would that tweet have made it justifiable for people to call the police if they saw any pair of males where one was white and one was black?

But, of course, it comes from a sheriff's department and we should all realize that sheriff's departments are the definition of incompetence and grandstanding.
There are a hundred people in a room, you have to pick one who committed a crime. I tell you can either figure it out by yourself, or you can dismiss everyone but those that are male, black, or white.

Are you going to tell me you would not take the help? It would be that insignificant of a boon that you might as well not use it?
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:16 PM   #34
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The police thought that that was a description of the perp. It's not useless even though it only designates the skin color (or race) and gender. If it were true it would eliminate those of a different skin color or gender. They had contained the area but would still be interested in civilians who might see a person of that description in the vicinity. It was very late at night so there probably weren't many people walking or running around.

Clothing is another good description but a perp can sometimes change that when on the run knowing that they have already been seen. But they can't really change their skin color or gender.
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Old 10th January 2018, 04:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The fact that you find it useless does not actually, you know, make it useless.

Lets take a look:

"#PCSD deputy shot by unidentified suspect while responding to 911 call of intruder at house on 200th St. E. in Frederickson area. Unidentified suspect is a black male, fled on foot, not in custody. Large area of containment, active K9 search taking place. http://bit.ly/2qH11U6"

that was the first tweet that contained a wealth of information, wouldn't you agree and clearly would have been EXTREMELY USEFUL to the media. This should be obvious.

here's another:

"Roads are closed from 176th St. E. to 200th St. E &, 38th Ave. E. to Canyon Rd. E. as search continues for armed & dangerous unidentified suspect in fatal shooting of #PCSD deputy. Expect roads to be closed for several hours."

But you have declared them to have "stupid mouths," apparently without reading all of the texts in context. They also reported that their Officer was dead while posting these informational tweets with their "stupid mouths."
So, you're going to ignore the **** tweet? Pretend that it didn't exist? Pretend that it contained meaningful information? Yeah, whoever decided to issue a pointless tweet has a "stupid mouth" and should be told so.

Just because the current occupant of the Oval Office issues garbage information via Twitter doesn't mean it's an excuse for anyone else to do so.
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Old 10th January 2018, 05:23 PM   #36
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So given that it was apparently open season on black males, how many were bagged and tagged by the bloodthirsty cops?
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
So, you're going to ignore the **** tweet? Pretend that it didn't exist? Pretend that it contained meaningful information? Yeah, whoever decided to issue a pointless tweet has a "stupid mouth" and should be told so.

Just because the current occupant of the Oval Office issues garbage information via Twitter doesn't mean it's an excuse for anyone else to do so.
Oh mercy. Did you see that folks? I appear to have ignored a *********** tweet. But tbd, you literally quoted the tweet that said it was a black male on foot and which contains all sorts of relevant information and which your correspondent did not even question.

Ahh, but it has been declared as coming from a stupid mouth who should be told so (ignore the dead guy folks, the real issue is that a tweet has been declared insufficiently useful) plus, trump.

And thus i am struck to the core, for it has thus been declared:

Stupid mouth. So eloquent.
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The fact that you find it useless does not actually, you know, make it useless.

Lets take a look:

"#PCSD deputy shot by unidentified suspect while responding to 911 call of intruder at house on 200th St. E. in Frederickson area. Unidentified suspect is a black male, fled on foot, not in custody. Large area of containment, active K9 search taking place. http://bit.ly/2qH11U6"

that was the first tweet that contained a wealth of information, wouldn't you agree and clearly would have been EXTREMELY USEFUL to the media. This should be obvious.

here's another:

"Roads are closed from 176th St. E. to 200th St. E &, 38th Ave. E. to Canyon Rd. E. as search continues for armed & dangerous unidentified suspect in fatal shooting of #PCSD deputy. Expect roads to be closed for several hours."

But you have declared them to have "stupid mouths," apparently without reading all of the texts in context. They also reported that their Officer was dead while posting these informational tweets with their "stupid mouths."
Surely it was not wise to potentially tell the murderer the routes he should avoid?
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:23 PM   #39
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And could someone explain what the big issue is meant to be, an initial description was changed to reflect new information? I really don't see anything strange or unusual in that, as the police gathered more information they updated the description.

Obviously there is some subtext/meta point I'm missing but for the life of me I don't know what it is.
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Old 10th January 2018, 06:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Surely it was not wise to potentially tell the murderer the routes he should avoid?
That was a perimeter.
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