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Tags airplane incidents , airplane issues , animal incidents

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Old 25th January 2018, 08:40 AM   #161
TX50
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I absolutely loathe dogs of any and all kinds. I'd have demanded to get another seat well away from the vile animal long before any such "incident" could occur. From my, admittedly cursory, perusal of the story the victim of the savaging doesn't seem to have asked to be moved. I wonder if he did and it was refused.
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Old 25th January 2018, 09:28 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
A couple friends of mine raise puppies for Canine Companions for Independence. They do the initial training for the dogs which may later be trained to me assistance animals, hearing dogs or the like.. Not emotional support animals. They do see the issue, and the problem behind the false certificates. It hurts genuine dogs, and the people that need them. However, how do you determine what is legit, and what is.. a fake cape and note?
Simple. Don't allow animals on flights.
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Old 25th January 2018, 11:54 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Simple. Don't allow animals on flights.
Extremely reasonable as long as airlines/airports are required to provide assistance to those who need it while their service animal is unavailable, and as long as there is a system in place to quickly return the animal upon arrival. There shouldn't be any significant need for the animal in the cabin of an airplane.
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Old 31st January 2018, 04:23 AM   #164
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Looks like some airlines are finally putting their foot down:

Quote:
A female traveller was recently banned from taking a large "emotional-support peacock" on board a United Airlines flight, it has emerged.

She had offered to buy the bird its own plane ticket, according to travel blog Live and Let Fly.

Nonetheless the airline refused to let the bird board at Newark airport in New Jersey, saying it did not meet guidelines due to its weight and size.

United says this was explained to the traveller before she arrived at Newark.

Pictures of the striking bird and its owner emerged via The Jet Set, a travel-based talk show.

The images show the animal perched on an airport baggage trolley, as fellow passengers gaze at it in shock.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42880690
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Old 31st January 2018, 04:27 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Extremely reasonable as long as airlines/airports are required to provide assistance to those who need it while their service animal is unavailable, and as long as there is a system in place to quickly return the animal upon arrival. There shouldn't be any significant need for the animal in the cabin of an airplane.

Surely some blind people might like to be able to walk around once they get where they're going?
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:17 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Looks like some airlines are finally putting their foot down:



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42880690
Hmmm - I see "emotional support animal" equals paycheck!
"....The peacock is reportedly called Dexter, a rescue pet of Brooklyn-based artist Ventiko who documents the animal's life on social media.....
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:38 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Surely some blind people might like to be able to walk around once they get where they're going?
Yes. Getting a dog from the plane to a crate in the hold, and vice-versa, is a pretty long process. I think precious few people would object to genuine service dogs being in the cabin.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:51 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yes. Getting a dog from the plane to a crate in the hold, and vice-versa, is a pretty long process. I think precious few people would object to genuine service dogs being in the cabin.

It hadn't actually occurred to me that the animal could travel in the hold with the non-service animals.
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Old 31st January 2018, 07:08 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hmmm - I see "emotional support animal" equals paycheck!
"....The peacock is reportedly called Dexter, a rescue pet of Brooklyn-based artist Ventiko who documents the animal's life on social media.....
If Ventriko also wants to document the peacock's flight, I'd have no objections putting him in a crate alongside the peacock in the hold as well.
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Old 31st January 2018, 09:11 AM   #170
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Not a typical scene at the airport.
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Old 31st January 2018, 09:38 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Not a typical scene at the airport.
NBC is getting desperate.
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Old 31st January 2018, 11:49 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Surely some blind people might like to be able to walk around once they get where they're going?
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It hadn't actually occurred to me that the animal could travel in the hold with the non-service animals.
It occurred to me while I was typing the post to which you initially replied.
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Extremely reasonable as long as airlines/airports are required to provide assistance to those who need it while their service animal is unavailable, and as long as there is a system in place to quickly return the animal upon arrival. There shouldn't be any significant need for the animal in the cabin of an airplane.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:01 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Extremely reasonable as long as airlines/airports are required to provide assistance to those who need it while their service animal is unavailable, and as long as there is a system in place to quickly return the animal upon arrival. There shouldn't be any significant need for the animal in the cabin of an airplane.
Most airlines have this system or something very similar. My wife uses a wheeled walker. She walks with it all the way down the boarding ramp to the plane door. She then hands it to a baggage handler who takes it down the adjacent stairs to the tarmac and loads it onto the plane. At the destination we then wait at the plane door while it is retrieved and she then uses it to walk up the exit ramp. The wait for retrieval is usually 2 or 3 minutes as the airlines appear to make this a priority.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:22 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It occurred to me while I was typing the post to which you initially replied.

"Extremely reasonable as long as airlines/airports are required to provide assistance to those who need it while their service animal is unavailable, and as long as there is a system in place to quickly return the animal upon arrival. There shouldn't be any significant need for the animal in the cabin of an airplane. "

I agree, but with reservations. Blind people with guide dogs have their dog with them constantly. I imagine, if I were blind, having the dog with me at all times would be a comfort.


Oh, and another thought that blows it all out of the water - if there is an issue and there needs to be emergency disembarkation does the visually impaired person need their dog to be able to safely exit the plane?
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:24 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I agree, but with reservations. Blind people with guide dogs have their dog with them constantly. I imagine, if I were blind, having the dog with me at all times would be a comfort.


Oh, and another thought that blows it all out of the water - if there is an issue and there needs to be emergency disembarkation does the visually impaired person need their dog to be able to safely exit the plane?
No, they've got those little lights on the floor for that.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:39 PM   #176
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Got my cellphone, junk snack, shades and a peacock. I have everything now. My emotions are pretty steady and I'm ready to travel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1024x1024.jpg (42.7 KB, 10 views)
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:44 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I agree, but with reservations. Blind people with guide dogs have their dog with them constantly. I imagine, if I were blind, having the dog with me at all times would be a comfort.


Oh, and another thought that blows it all out of the water - if there is an issue and there needs to be emergency disembarkation does the visually impaired person need their dog to be able to safely exit the plane?
These are legitimate concerns.

I imagine guide dogs are well trained to deal with public transportation. A guide dog on a plane should be quite as comfortable as it would be on a bus. Much more so than a "companion animal".

In a real emergency a dog in the cargo hold may not be able to be retrieved at all. The priority would obviously be the human passengers. I also wonder how guide dog training deals with emergencies where there may be a lot of panicked people in a confined area. Do they have training for this, or would they be subject to confusion in such an unexpected and unusual situation?
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:46 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Got my cellphone, junk snack, shades and a peacock. I have everything now. My emotions are pretty steady and I'm ready to travel.
Ever heard a peacock? They are LOUD. If this started squawking in an enclosed aircraft it would be painful.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:55 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
If Ventriko also wants to document the peacock's flight, I'd have no objections putting him in a crate alongside the peacock in the hold as well.
Based on the nude pictures I saw of Ventriko with the peacock, I'm reasonably certain she's female.
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Old 31st January 2018, 01:13 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yes. Getting a dog from the plane to a crate in the hold, and vice-versa, is a pretty long process. I think precious few people would object to genuine service dogs being in the cabin.
It shouldn't have to be. Every time I fly, I see people who for whatever reason choose to check their bag planeside rather than at the ticket counter. When the flight lands, these people receive their bags right there in the jetway, before even getting to the terminal itself. At most they have to wait a few minutes while the handlers bring all of that particular class of luggage to the jetway.

I see no logistical reason why service animals can't be similarly prioritized and immediately reunited with their owners at the ends of flights.
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Old 31st January 2018, 01:35 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Most airlines have this system or something very similar. My wife uses a wheeled walker. She walks with it all the way down the boarding ramp to the plane door. She then hands it to a baggage handler who takes it down the adjacent stairs to the tarmac and loads it onto the plane. At the destination we then wait at the plane door while it is retrieved and she then uses it to walk up the exit ramp. The wait for retrieval is usually 2 or 3 minutes as the airlines appear to make this a priority.
My wife uses exactly the same system, except it's never available on arrival. There's always a wheelchair or electric buggy to get her to the luggage carousel where her walker appears. But then our only flights are international and maybe that makes a difference?

Still, dealing with a guide dog isn't quite the same as dealing with a rollator. My money says the guide dog should be in the cabin, not least because a period of time where the dog is separated from its owner, and stashed in a crate in pretty stressful conditions, isn't really conducive to the dog being fit to do its job within minutes of landing?
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Old 31st January 2018, 02:42 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Simple. Don't allow animals on flights.
It can't be that hard to allow properly accredited guide dogs on a plane.
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Old 31st January 2018, 02:43 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
My wife uses exactly the same system, except it's never available on arrival. There's always a wheelchair or electric buggy to get her to the luggage carousel where her walker appears. But then our only flights are international and maybe that makes a difference?
All our recent flights have been Canada - USA. Quite likely other countries will do things differently.

Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Still, dealing with a guide dog isn't quite the same as dealing with a rollator. My money says the guide dog should be in the cabin, not least because a period of time where the dog is separated from its owner, and stashed in a crate in pretty stressful conditions, isn't really conducive to the dog being fit to do its job within minutes of landing?
I agree completely.
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Old 31st January 2018, 03:03 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It shouldn't have to be. Every time I fly, I see people who for whatever reason choose to check their bag planeside rather than at the ticket counter. When the flight lands, these people receive their bags right there in the jetway, before even getting to the terminal itself. At most they have to wait a few minutes while the handlers bring all of that particular class of luggage to the jetway.

I see no logistical reason why service animals can't be similarly prioritized and immediately reunited with their owners at the ends of flights.
What airline do you fly on? Whenever I do a plan side baggage check, the bags always end up on the baggage carousel in the terminal.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:00 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What airline do you fly on? Whenever I do a plan side baggage check, the bags always end up on the baggage carousel in the terminal.
Two round trips in the last three years on United; saw the same thing each time. There was always a small traffic jam in the turn of the jetway while passengers waited for their checked carry-ons.
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Old 31st January 2018, 06:01 PM   #186
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I've been on a flight with a guide dog. He had his own seat, with one of the doggy seat belts, curled up on the chair next to his blind owner (the dog had the window seat!)

Since the airlines require "hefty" passengers to purchase a second seat, why did not this man have a seat for his animal? A fifty lb animal in your lap for hours? Call the ASPCA, that's cruel.
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Old 31st January 2018, 06:19 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by desmirelle View Post
Since the airlines require "hefty" passengers to purchase a second seat, why did not this man have a seat for his animal? A fifty lb animal in your lap for hours? Call the ASPCA, that's cruel.
Because since expecting someone to pay for the seat would be out of the question the airline would be forced to swallow that lost revenue.

And given recent incidents yeah, let's overbook a flight and have the cell phone cameras rolling when some guy gets drug off the plan in handcuffs because he got bumped for somebody's emotional support beluga. That will end well.
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Old 1st February 2018, 02:10 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because since expecting someone to pay for the seat would be out of the question the airline would be forced to swallow that lost revenue.
Why?
The UK CAA rules for this allow for charging for a seat for a larger dog, if the dog can't comfortably lie down in front of the passenger (not on the lap).
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Old 1st February 2018, 01:09 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Why?
The UK CAA rules for this allow for charging for a seat for a larger dog, if the dog can't comfortably lie down in front of the passenger (not on the lap).
The American society and American legal system would not react favorably to any fee put on any accommodation for disabled people.
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Old 1st February 2018, 11:56 PM   #190
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The peacock wasn't allowed to fly. Also, it seems that the airlines are going to get stricter on their rules regarding animals in the cabin:

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/58252...oarding-planes


Quote:
Hobart says the changes were in the works long before Sunday's peacock incident, as United has seen a 75 percent year-over-year increase in the number of customers bringing emotional support animals onboard. The airline also has experienced a significant increase in onboard incidents involving these animals, including biting, aggression, urination, defecation, allergic reactions, conflict and other disruptions.
These are the changes for United:
Quote:
Under the changes, passengers traveling with emotional support animals will be required to notify the airline's Accessibility Desk at least 48 hours in advance, and they'll also need to provide a letter signed by a mental health professional indicating the passenger's need to travel with an emotional support animal.

In addition, "the customer must provide confirmation that the animal has been trained to behave properly in a public setting and acknowledge responsibility for the animal's behavior," according to a statement from the airline.
Quote:
United's action follows similar policy changes announced Jan. 19 at Delta Airlines, which says it carries about 700 service or support animals daily — nearly 250,000 annually. In a statement, Delta said, "Customers have attempted to fly with comfort turkeys, gliding possums known as sugar gliders, snakes, spiders and more."

Both airlines point to the Transportation Department inaction on calls to implement clearer and more stringent guidelines on service and comfort animals as the reason for their own policy changes, which will go into effect March 1.
This is from Delta's website:
Quote:
In compliance with the Air Carrier Access Act, Delta provides in-cabin travel for service and support animals without charge. The guidelines, effective March 1, require that all customers traveling with a service or support animal show proof of health or vaccinations 48 hours in advance. In addition to the current requirement of a letter prepared and signed by a doctor or licensed mental health professional, those with psychiatric service animals and emotional support animals will also need to provide a signed document confirming that their animal can behave to prevent untrained, sometimes aggressive household pets from traveling without a kennel in the cabin. These measures are intended to help ensure that those customers traveling with a trained service or support animal will no longer be at risk of untrained pets attacking their working animal, as has previously been reported.
It just comes down to a lot of people being ******** and abusing a policy that has the best of intentions. Personally, I would be mortified to lie and say my pet was a support animal just to save a bit of money. Some people,are just dicks.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 05:10 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
The peacock wasn't allowed to fly.
Well, on airplanes, anyway. Although not extremely skilled in the art, peacocks are not considered flightless birds. They can flutter up into the air sufficiently enough to escape a predator's attack. They just won't get served a pretzel snack while aloft.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 08:34 AM   #192
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:19 PM   #193
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Bad info from Spirit Air led me to flush pet hamster down airport toilet, student says

Originally Posted by Miami Herald
Before Belen Aldecosea flew home from from college to South Florida, she twice called Spirit Airlines to ensure she could bring along a special guest: Pebbles, her pet dwarf hamster. No problem, the airline told her.

But when Aldecosea arrived at the Baltimore airport, Spirit refused to allow the tiny animal on the flight.

With her only friends hours away at campus, Aldecosea was stuck. She says an airline representative suggested flushing Pebbles down an airport toilet, a step that Spirit denies. Panicked and needing to return home promptly to deal with a medical issue, Aldecosea unsuccessfully tried renting a car and agonized for hours before doing the unthinkable.

She flushed Pebbles...
She is now considering suing Spirit Air.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...198971069.html
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:22 PM   #194
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The only "Emotional Support" animal I would allow on a plane flight is a Norwegian Blue Parrot, provided it was pining for the fiords.....
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:39 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Bad info from Spirit Air led me to flush pet hamster down airport toilet, student says



She is now considering suing Spirit Air.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...198971069.html
Sure- it is very plausible to me that someone whose emotional support animal was so crucial to her that she needed to travel with it, that it was central to her psychological well being, would just flush the animal down the toilet when an airline refused to fly it.

I hope my wife doesn't view me the same way the next time there is some glitch with me boarding a plane.
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:41 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Bad info from Spirit Air led me to flush pet hamster down airport toilet, student says



She is now considering suing Spirit Air.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...198971069.html
She claims that an employee told her she should flush the hamster down a toilet. While that's possible (some people are really dumb), I can't help but suspect she's lying.

For the nothing it's worth, here's how I would imagine the conversation going down if the employee had any sense at all:

Employee: We can't let you on the plane with your hamster.
<snipped argument about emotional support>
Hamster Fan: Then what am I supposed to do with him?
Employee: That's up to you, but you can't get on the plane with your pet.
Hamster Fan: <flush> Okay, I'm ready to board. Sue...I mean see you later!

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if she bought the hamster specifically to set up this exact situation.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 8th February 2018 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #197
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I very recently took 4 airline flights and there was a "support dog" in three. Not one appeared to me to be specially trained. They were reasonably non-aggressive animals but as far as I could tell "emotional support" meant simply that the owners enjoy having the dog with them, and by invoking "emotional support" they got to fly the dog for free. One animal was a good 40 pounds and rode on the owner's lap in the middle seat. Lovely for the flanking passengers I am sure.

This just doesn't seem to be working out well doing it the way we have been doing it up to now...
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Old 8th February 2018, 04:53 PM   #198
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I am not certain if I mean this sarcastically or not, but why am I not be able to announce that my wife is my emotional support animal and fly her for free? Being with my wife does provide a tremendous benefit to me emotionally, generally calms me (if we don't argue about something trivial), and I find her to be a key psychological support for me in many different ways. Okay- put her in a cute vest and it's half price for the two of us!
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Old 8th February 2018, 05:17 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
One animal was a good 40 pounds and rode on the owner's lap in the middle seat. Lovely for the flanking passengers I am sure.
To be fair, some (including me) would be perfectly happy having a nice dog - even if it's someone else's - flopping halfway onto their lap during a plane ride. It would definitely keep me calm.

Of course, the problems arise when the dog isn't nice or just can't handle the flight, which is why I'm in favor of a no non-humans policy in the airplane cabin.
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Old 8th February 2018, 05:33 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
To be fair, some (including me) would be perfectly happy having a nice dog - even if it's someone else's - flopping halfway onto their lap during a plane ride. It would definitely keep me calm.

Of course, the problems arise when the dog isn't nice or just can't handle the flight, which is why I'm in favor of a no non-humans policy in the airplane cabin.
Or simply the flanking passengers don't like it (whatever the behavior of the dog) and yet they have been committed to it by the actions of their fellow passenger.

Don't get me wrong- I love dogs. But I like to make the decisions as to my interactions with them on my own. Also I am particularly easily irritated on plane flights- sharing my personal space with a strange human next to me is problem enough. The strange human plus a strange dog- worse. The strange dog alone? Probably better!
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