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Old 15th February 2018, 11:45 AM   #41
Joecool
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Hell, just give me all of next year's NFL scores, or stock quotes for the next six months.
What? He was from 2030 and didn't bring back a sports almanac?
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
He can but it's a slow process....
I tell people that we can all time travel and use that ability to alter the future to be more as we wish it to be! But we can only travel forward and at one speed.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:01 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If time travel is ever invented we would know it: they (time travelers) would be all over the place! And they would be so thick at the most "popular" moments in time (the sinking of the Titanic, the Sermon on the Mount [if it ever happened], etc) that they would out number the actual participants. Hard to miss them! Why, there would have been thousands of future doctoral students visiting 2016 just to research how on earth the USA ever elected Donal Trump.

The only way this would not be the case would be if time travel somehow was kept in absolute secrecy and restricted to just a tiny handful of authorized travelers- but remember this secrecy and regulation would have to be achieved and maintained from the moment time travel was invented on to the most distant future, in multiple countries and over multiple regimes and civilizations. Seem unlikely..
You need to read the St Mary's Chronicles by Jodi Taylor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodi_T..._St_Mary's

They follow the staff of St Mary’s Institute of Historical Research, as they time-travel to “investigate major historical events in contemporary time”

Time has ways of stopping time travellers from interfering with the flow of events, well most of the time.
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Old 16th February 2018, 01:59 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You need to read the St Mary's Chronicles by Jodi Taylor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodi_T..._St_Mary's

They follow the staff of St Mary’s Institute of Historical Research, as they time-travel to “investigate major historical events in contemporary time”

Time has ways of stopping time travellers from interfering with the flow of events, well most of the time.
I love those books. Funny, thrilling and educational.
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
This is what I was thinking. If he is deluded enough to genuinely believe that he is a time traveller, then I'm guessing he would pass a polygraph test.
Doesn't mean he's right, though.
Maybe, but people who know how can fool a polygraph too. It isn't a science.
Conversely, there can be false positives. A person telling the truth may nonetheless have a physiological reaction that indicates that they are lying.
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:02 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
Another dinsosaur vid shows shaky cam footage of a running ostrich.
To be fair, that would actually be a real video of a real dinosaur.
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:09 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You need to read the St Mary's Chronicles by Jodi Taylor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodi_T..._St_Mary's

They follow the staff of St Mary’s Institute of Historical Research, as they time-travel to “investigate major historical events in contemporary time”

Time has ways of stopping time travellers from interfering with the flow of events, well most of the time.
I'll be honest, I found those books to be incredibly badly written. The characters only rarely act like real human beings, and many of the ideas in them seem only half formulated (such as whatever was supposed to be going on with Jack the Ripper, which the author admitted in an interview she just thought would be creepy).
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:23 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maybe, but people who know how can fool a polygraph too. It isn't a science.
Conversely, there can be false positives. A person telling the truth may nonetheless have a physiological reaction that indicates that they are lying.
Absolutely. Polygraphs are based on the assumption that every single person has predictable physiological responses to lying - and we know that they don't. We also don't know the state of mind of any particular polygraph examinee while they are undergoing any particular polygraph examination.

Add to that the fact that the results are subjective and have to be interpreted and the result is junk science.

The most we can say is that polygraphs results seem a bit more accurate than chance for people in the middle of the bell curve of physiological responses.

Polygraphs are infamous for their inaccuracy when applied to psychopaths or even practised liars. They are also inaccurate when applied to people experiencing high stress (such as being a suspect in a serious crime.) The closer the emotional connection between the examinee and the victim of a crime, the more stress they will experience. Furthermore, irrational guilt is often felt by people of conscience about victims of crime they are close to. Parents of missing kids often give false positives on polygraph tests. Add to that the fact that some innocent people have a passionate emotional response to being accused of crime can give false positives. The bias in polygraphy is against the innocent and in favour of the guilty.

This doesn't even address specific steps that can be taken to deliberately spoof the device. It also doesn't address the ways to spoof the operator. Aldrich Ames found that simply establishing a friendly working relationship with the examiner who would be subjectively interpreting his results was enough to get away with treason.

Looking from the outside it's really hard to understand the love affair the USA has with polygraphs. If they have never been able to establish sufficient accuracy to be admitted as evidence in court, why are they they so popular as an "investigative tool?"

In the case of "Noah" it's all a bit of a moot point. There is no evidence he was actually polygraphed at all.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:52 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'll be honest, I found those books to be incredibly badly written. The characters only rarely act like real human beings, and many of the ideas in them seem only half formulated (such as whatever was supposed to be going on with Jack the Ripper, which the author admitted in an interview she just thought would be creepy).
You didn't drink enough tea obv.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:34 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
If he's from 12 years in the future, why doesn't he just tell us his real name and where his 2018 self is now? Then a DNA test should clear things up quickly.
That reminds us that the ability to travel back in time necessarily entails the ability to replicate objects, and people, from nothing. There's now two of him.
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Old 16th February 2018, 01:47 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
the hilighted reminds me of the book Odd Thomas, sorry, offtopic.
Bodachs?
LOL.

I just finished binging vols. 5-8 this morning, because I liked the premise when I read the first few years ago.

Can't imagine how I managed it... I'll never read another drawn out, overly detailed piece of Koontz's again.
The man must live in a thesaurus.


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Old 16th February 2018, 03:21 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
2030!!!!!!! Whoa whats the world like... 12 whole year from now
I'm just glad the world still exists in 2030
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:30 PM   #53
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Summary of the thread: sociopath tells a bunch of lies and passes polygraph test.
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I passed a lie detector, myself.

I was touring the local FBI office. Walked right passed it.
I successfully lied to testers using same without getting caught or even re-phrased questions twice. They were for jobs.
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:43 PM   #55
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-Moe's tavern, home of the world's smallest large screen tv, what!?
-I'm looking for a woman. First name Ilanna. Last name Remikee.
-I'll check ... hey, everybody, I'm looking for Ilanna Remikee. I'm looking for Ilanna Remikee!!
-[laughs]
-You little bastard! I'm gonna find who you are, I'm gonna shove a sausage down your throat and stick starving dogs in your butt!!!
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I tell people that we can all time travel and use that ability to alter the future to be more as we wish it to be! But we can only travel forward and at one speed.
To be fair, some people travel forwards slower than others );

Last edited by p0lka; 16th February 2018 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 03:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
To be fair, some people travel forwards slower than others );
And some people get stuck in the 80s. You can tell them by the Mullet.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:50 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
And some people get stuck in the 80s. You can tell them by the Mullet.
Liquor in the front,...

Wait, wrong adage.



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Old 16th February 2018, 06:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, I think you're supposed to kill your grandfather, for some reason. I never understood why grandmothers or even great grandfathers won't do ...
Lazarus long had a better idea, and just screwed his mother.

Meanwhile, it makes me sad that we are here on a forum started by James Randi and nobody's mentioned his disdain for lie detectors.
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Old 16th February 2018, 06:56 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Lazarus long had a better idea, and just screwed his mother.

Close... no cigar.

He did that on a ride with Maureen where his then extant 9 (?) year old self had stowed away for the ride (thankfully exhausted and asleep after a day at the fair IIRC.

He did however have his twin sister/daughters Laz and Lor (cloned from himself) for bedmates.

TEFL might be a favorite of mine... but RAH was whack.



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Old 16th February 2018, 07:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Meanwhile, it makes me sad that we are here on a forum started by James Randi and nobody's mentioned his disdain for lie detectors.
It goes without saying.
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:26 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
What? He was from 2030 and didn't bring back a sports almanac?
Wouldn't work anyway, according to the documentary Hot Tub Time Machine a squirrel gets caught in a timey wimey thing & changes the outcome of the games.
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Old 16th February 2018, 08:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Who won the Winter Olympics, 2018?!
Not a fair challenge.
No one cares about the Winter Olympics

I couldn't even tell you where the 2014 Winter Olympics were held or who won it.
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Old 17th February 2018, 05:30 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post

Meanwhile, it makes me sad that we are here on a forum started by James Randi and nobody's mentioned his disdain for lie detectors.
Nobody's mention my disdain for lie detectors either. What's with you people?
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Old 17th February 2018, 05:54 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, I think you're supposed to kill your grandfather, for some reason. I never understood why grandmothers or even great grandfathers won't do ...
He was preparing to kill his father, but then he found out what his mother looked like and aborted the mission.
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Old 17th February 2018, 06:17 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Nobody's mention my disdain for lie detectors either. What's with you people?
I immediately thought about your disdain for lie detectors when I read the OP and, to be honest, out of pure spite I decided not to mention it. It was wrong of me, and I apologize.

Personally, I think polygraphs are great. While not really useful for anything but tricking the ignorant, the squiggles are pretty.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:35 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
...I couldn't even tell you where the 2014 Winter Olympics were held or who won it.
Sochi, Russia and Vladimir Putin.
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Old 19th February 2018, 04:19 PM   #68
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There are a huge number of television episodes and movies that use time travel as a plot device. At times my wife will turn to me and say, "But that can't happen! We were told three episodes ago that the protagonist cannot cross his own time path without creating a universe-destroying paradox, but in the latest episode he is working as a team with his younger self to battle the evil dictator of Tramdor. Why is that okay now?" I can only look at her and say, "It's a time travel plot. Not only need it not make logical sense, it cannot make logical sense. Just pretend you never noticed a problem and enjoy it for what it is worth."
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:41 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If time travel is ever invented we would know it: they (time travelers) would be all over the place! And they would be so thick at the most "popular" moments in time (the sinking of the Titanic, the Sermon on the Mount [if it ever happened], etc) that they would out number the actual participants.
A number of time travelers visiting the Sermon on the Mount wouldn't really be problematic; the number of attendees is given as an unspecified "multitudes".

As for the Titanic...that situation is a little trickier. Titanic sank alone at night in the Atlantic; the only obvious way to spectate the event would have been to time-travel to a point before the ship's departure and buy a ticket for the voyage, which would be problematic for two reasons: first, each time-traveler buying a ticket would deprive a historical victim of his or her place on the ship, changing history; and second, it would place the time-traveler in deadly peril since there would be no safe way to disembark during the sinking.

But there is a potential solution, hidden in the record of facts surrounding the sinking. Watch officers on the Californian are known to have observed a ship for quite some time around 12 miles estimated distance, which at some point stopped, extinguished its lights, fired some rockets, and then appeared to steam away. This is commonly considered to be an observation of the Titanic's striking an iceberg and sinking. The one hitch is that Titanic's watch officers never saw any other the lights on the horizon until some time after striking the iceberg, when they first began lowering the lifeboats. And the light they observed was much closer, only about 5 miles, and thought by some to be approaching - in fact, it appeared so close that the first lowered lifeboats were directed to make for it, Captain Smith being under the impression the boats could've transferred passengers to this other ship and come back to pick up more. Ultimately only one lifeboat really made an effort to row toward this light, but it was seemingly unable to get any closer; and before long the light had disappeared. Again, this light is commonly considered to have been the Californian, much closer than the Californian itself estimated its position to the Titanic was. But if that were true, the Titanic's watch officers should have been able to see those lights much earlier - before hitting the iceberg, even - and they should've been able to see them continuously until daybreak, since the Californian was stationary for that entire time.

Hypothetically: the Californian estimated its own position correctly; neither they nor the Titanic were directly visible to one another, and this light was a third unknown ship, roughly between and thus visible to both. This ship left the scene quickly after Titanic sank (correctly observed and reported by the Californian's watch officer, rather than being a mistaken observation of the sinking of the former) and never identified itself in the aftermath, likely to avoid the same scrutiny the master and crew of the Californian faced in the aftermath of the disaster. Or possibly because it was a private vessel secretly chartered by time-travelers to spectate the sinking of the Titanic and then flee before it could be noticed by any responding ships.
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Old 20th February 2018, 10:19 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
There is a short fantasy story in which a greedy miser in the 1800s catches the devil in a trap with the idea of making a deal. The trapped devil fusses and fumes but the miser refuses to release him, "No, not for all the tea in China!" But the devil then holds up a finger and asks, "Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you release me for all the tea in China?" The deal is made and the devil delivers:

Immediately and on top of the miser's head.
I think the miser would have said no a second time. Who wants all that tea, ya?
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Old 21st February 2018, 03:42 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Not a fair challenge.
No one cares about the Winter Olympics
I do. I much prefer it to the summer Olympics.

Anybody who isn't following the curling is seriously missing out. It's a fantastic sport.
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Old 21st February 2018, 03:45 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
As for the Titanic...that situation is a little trickier. Titanic sank alone at night in the Atlantic; the only obvious way to spectate the event would have been to time-travel to a point before the ship's departure and buy a ticket for the voyage, which would be problematic for two reasons: first, each time-traveler buying a ticket would deprive a historical victim of his or her place on the ship, changing history; and second, it would place the time-traveler in deadly peril since there would be no safe way to disembark during the sinking.
This makes several assumptions about time travel. All these problems could be solved by landing a TARDIS in a cargo hold.
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Old 21st February 2018, 04:51 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This makes several assumptions about time travel. All these problems could be solved by landing a TARDIS in a cargo hold.
Or having the chameleon circuit set to iceberg.
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Old 21st February 2018, 07:50 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This makes several assumptions about time travel. All these problems could be solved by landing a TARDIS in a cargo hold.
Well. They haven't found that 1912 Coupe de Ville yet. So I think you're on to something.
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Old 21st February 2018, 08:32 AM   #75
sts60
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If I was going back to the sinking of the Titanic, I’d darn well bring a big ship with plenty of lifeboats and blankets. Ship still sinks, passengers and crew get lucky break and survive.

To paraphrase Professor Farnswoth, “Oh, so now Mr. I’m-my-own-grandfather is worried about changing history? Screw history! Let’s get them the hell out of there!”
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Old 21st February 2018, 10:55 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
-Moe's tavern, home of the world's smallest large screen tv, what!?
-I'm looking for a woman. First name Ilanna. Last name Remikee.
-I'll check ... hey, everybody, I'm looking for Ilanna Remikee. I'm looking for Ilanna Remikee!!
-[laughs]
-You little bastard! I'm gonna find who you are, I'm gonna shove a sausage down your throat and stick starving dogs in your butt!!!
Works better with Hugh Jass, or Amanda Hugenkiss.
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Old 21st February 2018, 02:46 PM   #77
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
If I was going back to the sinking of the Titanic, I’d darn well bring a big ship with plenty of lifeboats and blankets. Ship still sinks, passengers and crew get lucky break and survive.

To paraphrase Professor Farnswoth, “Oh, so now Mr. I’m-my-own-grandfather is worried about changing history? Screw history! Let’s get them the hell out of there!”
Unfortunately (or fortunately), any such attempt must fail.

Going back to our hypothetical situation of a third ship between the Californian and the Titanic, visible to both: it is possible that the rockets the Californian observed came from the Titanic - the ship itself being under the horizon, but the rockets themselves high enough to be visible (which is the point, after all), and the Californian misinterpreted the rockets as coming from this third, in-between ship because of visual juxtaposition. But, it would also be possible that a "rogue" element among the time-traveling observers on the third ship was of a like mind as you, and fired off some rockets of their own in order to get the Californian's attention and convince them to investigate, and perhaps rescue some more of the Titanic's passengers...however, again, any such attempt must necessarily fail (and did).
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Old 21st February 2018, 03:26 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I do. I much prefer it to the summer Olympics.

Anybody who isn't following the curling is seriously missing out. It's a fantastic sport.
Bowls on ice.
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Old 21st February 2018, 04:12 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
As for the Titanic...that situation is a little trickier. Titanic sank alone at night in the Atlantic; the only obvious way to spectate the event would have been to time-travel to a point before the ship's departure and buy a ticket for the voyage, which would be problematic for two reasons: first, each time-traveler buying a ticket would deprive a historical victim of his or her place on the ship, changing history; and second, it would place the time-traveler in deadly peril since there would be no safe way to disembark during the sinking.
Perhaps a time traveller was sent to observe the successful maiden voyage of the RMS Titanic on which the man who invented the time machine sailed to New York for the first public demonstration of the device. Unfortunately the beautiful time traveller catches the eye of captain Smith, distracting him with disastrous results. Which is why we no longer have time travel today!

Last edited by jrhowell; 21st February 2018 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 21st February 2018, 05:40 PM   #80
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This makes several assumptions about time travel. All these problems could be solved by landing a TARDIS in a cargo hold.
I do assume it's humans using machinery with some feasible technical constraints. Magical alien technology isn't as fun.
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