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#1521 | |||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,867
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"Ruslan Boshirov" a north-Caucasian name, probably an alias, from a Muslim-majority region just went to visit the Cathedral.
Uncompelling counterargument maybe but it looks as though they didn't think things through for their big softball interview. At least Lugovoi gave a brief lecture on the chemical properties of Polonium-210
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#1522 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,044
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No idea if this is legit or not but....
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#1523 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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No, this Trip Advisor review doesn't seem serious (though it is quoted on Russia Today: https://www.rt.com/uk/438393-petrov-...ipal-simonyan/ ), this is explained in this Daily Mirror article: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...edral-13240231 .
You can see on this screen capture that the website says "Reviewed Yesterday", but the Skripal poisoning took place on March 4, 2018. This fake review seems to have been removed from the Trip Advisor website now (a search for "Came all the way from Russia to see the spire" gives no result). |
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#1524 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,867
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Now that made me laugh out loud.
I would hate to laugh about this atrocious act but "Ruslan Boshirov" probably got that info from the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page on Salisbury Cathedral. |
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#1525 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,044
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Yep, figured it was bollocks, wasn't sure when 'yesterday' was though as it was just a pic posted in another forum.
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#1526 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,041
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'Pure as mountain water' trolling by Russia. Take the mickey, in spades, to demonstrate their contempt. Wow.
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"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#1527 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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I would not go so far. It seems to me Russia has now contributed to the Skripal enquiry (through this public interview of Petrov and Boshirov), like Britain has.
But I am having the impression that Russia Today is kind of doing the job Scotland Yard should do. Britain should now send some detectives to Moscow to do in-depth interviews of these two men, together with their friends, family and work colleagues, customers ... But, with this strong anti-Russian attitude of this Tory government led by Theresa May, is this even conceivable? |
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#1528 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,044
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#1529 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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I didn't know how certain the Brits were that these were the killers, but after seeing them both interviewed today on RT, guilt was rather obvious. They were BSing the claim they went to Salisbury as a tourist destination. They didn't have any photos, didn't produce anything but a suspicious story. I would imagine the entry in TripAdvisor was only after it looked like they'd been suspected.
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#1530 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,597
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Expelling "diplomats" is a fairly low key response, actually. The major powers typically maintain a large espionage contingent under the umbrella of their diplomatic presence in a foreign country. Especially with another power.
The host country knows this is going on (they're doing the same thing themselves), and usually know who most of the spies are. Kicking out the spies is just a friendly way of putting the other government on notice, that you'd like to have a serious conversation about the recent shenanigans. And Putin is a bully. The Russian bear won't even start paying attention to you, if you don't give it a sharp smack on the nose. |
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#1531 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,230
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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#1532 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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I don't think Putin and Russia Today have been just telling propaganda. British police has found some things (about the two Russian men, Petrov and Boshirov) and Putin reacted by inviting the two men to speak, to tell their story. I think you can describe this as some form of collaboration.
These men seem sincere to me, but they remain suspects. Russia will probably not extradite them, so British police should go to Moscow and (politely) interrogate them (in my humble opinion). It would perhaps not be a bad thing that some Western police stick their nose in Russian affairs, in order to perhaps improve the quality of democracy in that country, with hopefully positive consequences for world peace, or to perhaps clarify Putin's "innocence". The BBC has tried to recreate the suspects' walk through Salisbury to see whether their account fits, using CCTV footage from the police (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-45515...ough-salisbury ), but this video seem to be strangely lacking a clear conclusion. |
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#1533 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,230
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__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#1534 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,399
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Again Litvinenko case provides appropriate parallels. Perpetrators gave interviews in Russia proclaiming their innocence, British police went to Moscow to interview them, Russian state protected them and gave them medals. Once bitten, twice shy. Russia is not going to honestly co-operate, so there is absolutely no point in British police going through that circus again. |
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#1535 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,384
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#1536 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,041
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They planned a three-day trip, staying two nights in E London, intending to visit Salisbury cathedral? Sincere? That's nuts, as there are cheap hotels and B+Bs in and around Salisbury that would save them a load of time and rail fares, which is important for a flying visit such as this is claimed to have been.
The Russian story is a calculated insult. |
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"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#1537 |
Bazooka Joe
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,498
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#1538 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 42,785
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I happened to catch the interview with the two men yesterday evening and if I'd had any doubts about them being up to no good these were entirely dispelled by their risible performance. Whether the evidence against them amounts to "beyond reasonable doubt" I'm not sure, but I'm pretty certain where the balance of probabilities lies.
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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#1539 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,946
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__________________
OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#1540 |
Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 222
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That's hilarious!
I mean LiverpoolMiss on BadScience, brilliant.. |
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#1541 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,794
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Mildly amusing that they seemed more bothered about being suspected of being gay, than of being accused of being murderers.
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#1542 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 3,304
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It's lamentable stupidity. I used to think that Putin would not do such a thing because he is not stupid. I now discover he is stupid.
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#1543 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,025
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__________________
"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos "We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons "Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin |
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#1544 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,946
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He is not stupid - he just has no concern about people knowing that he was responsible.
Mafia hits often are messages. It's no good leaving a message if nobody can hear it. Putin is having his cake and eating it - use lots of exotic poisons and varied ways of killing. Many won't be discovered, except that there will be a range of unexplained deaths. Some will be. As long as some are correctly attributed to him, then all coincidental deaths from his opponents will be suspicious, and his reach is made to seem larger. |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#1545 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 3,304
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It's what is known technically as international law, which like the principles of international finance most people are totally ignorant about. They are only interested in beer, cigarettes and football and Strictly Come Dancing. I consider it applies to the Skripal case and the Litvinenko case, which is probably why all these sanctions and reprisals are now being applied. This is a website about the matter which is not too highly technical:
http://www.globalization101.org/what...rnational-law/
Quote:
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#1546 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,794
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London Evening Standard:
"But, weather forecasts from the weekend show that despite a cold snap gripping the UK around the time of the poisoning, temperatures had risen by March 3. By the time of their second visit on March 4, the mercury had hit 9C. To make matters worse, CCTV footage of the pair shows them walking around a rainy Salisbury without a snowflake in sight.... The men also claimed they were forced to call off a visit to Stonehenge on Salisbury Plain due to bad weather but tour company Salisbury Reds told the Daily Mail that services “ran as normal” on March 4." A couple of hardy Russians put off by a bit of slush? Sure... |
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#1547 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,965
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I guess this a 'conflict of laws' issue. A specific Russian law allows for the extra-judicial extra-territorial execution of persons who insult Putin; English law does not allow agents of the Russian state to carry out what is a legal act under Russian law in England. Even if an extradition treaty existed, since what happened is not a crime in Russia, there would be no extradition.
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#1548 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,965
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Russian agents arrested attempting to break into to the Swiss lab carrying out the independent analysis on behalf of the OPCW.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45522614 I wonder why Russian agents would want to break into this laboratory after had received specimens from Salisbury, presumably it was just something people want to visit when going to switzerland and one might need to break in if it is closed due to bad weather? |
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#1549 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,823
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#1550 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,230
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Putin's decades long assassination campaign against critics, rivals and journalists has helped him and his inner circle become massively wealthy and powerful, while the tripe produced by his propaganda arsenal is instantly accepted as fact by his influential western groupies.
What "lamentable stupidity"? |
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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#1551 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,838
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Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner |
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#1552 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,838
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Note that if you want to at least try to have some plausible deniability whatsoever then I'd suggest documenting your visits to prominent landmarks and popular attractions.
Pretending to be a tourist is more believable if you behave at least a little bit like a tourist. |
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Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner |
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#1553 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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#1554 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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![]() Right, they claimed they walked to the cathedral, but CC cameras caught them very close to the victim's house and a very long way in the opposite direction from the cathedral. In addition, it showed them returning to the train station and there's no images of them anywhere near the cathedral. What kind of clear conclusion were you expecting? |
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#1555 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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#1556 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,838
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__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner |
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#1557 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,823
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#1558 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,946
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Again from badscience
Originally Posted by woodchopper1
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#1559 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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I understand this BBC video better now, this article: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...oes-not-add-up helps to understand objections to Boshirov and Petrov's account of their trip (this link: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...flaws-13242758 is of interest too).
However, when you say "a very long way in the opposite direction", this very long way" is actually (only) 0.8 miles according to Google Maps, this is the distance between the Salisbury Railway Station and the Shell gas (or petrol) station 133 Wilton Road, where they were spotted, this does not seem that huge to me. Nevertheless, why did they not go to the cathedral on their first trip to Salisbury? Why did they go straight towards the Skripal home, which located North West of the station, and not to the cathedral (which is South East) on their second trip? In addition, traces of the poison Novichok were apparently found in their hotel room. According to Kovalev (a Russian journalist), Putin may not have authorized the attack against Sergey and Yulia Skripal: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ects-interview Perhaps he ordered the Litvinenko assassination, but not the attack against the Skripals. If this is true, he might be more open to a serious investigation in Russia - it might be in his interest. There is a lot which is still unknown about these two suspects, Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov. A serious investigation might (perhaps) reveal some big surprises. For example, have they been paid by the Russian State recently? |
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#1560 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,496
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Are you still trying to get us to believe these two clowns were tourists?
As for "very long way", they were on foot, they went toward the Skripal's house. The cathedral was the other way. Watch the video, it's a long way for two men on foot that were intending to see the tourist sights. |
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