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Old 15th March 2018, 10:28 AM   #281
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I'm prepared to believe Putin didn't do it, but I'm with the French (and Corbyn) here - let's see the evidence.

Let's see the evidence that he didn't do it? Glenn, seriously? Where went the standard critical thinking repertoire?

I find it shocking to witness which kind of people fall for this, but on the other hand the lying is unprecedented and it gets more and more difficult to withstand the mass hysteria. I understand that. And I have no idea how this bridge-burning can end well.

Anyway, I really don't feel like breaking the reasons for the lying claim down so I give you (people) two links you please study for yourself including the many sources, and don't come back with attacking the weakest part (IMHO Craig Murray pointing at Israel) - there are enough strong parts to make the ride we are taken for obvious. "Enjoy":

https://medium.com/insurge-intellige...*-a69b4ee484ce (edit: **** the autocensor, please replace the eight stars in the link with the word usually shortened as "BS")
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03...all-apart.html

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Old 15th March 2018, 10:40 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is nothing knew about false flags between Russia and Britain. This a Wikipedia about activities in the 1920s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter
Well that typo is appropriate.
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Old 15th March 2018, 10:46 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Well, the US administration is now officially accepting the UK's view of events.

I assume that is because the nerve gas attack was actually a CIA false flag operation?
Putin may be realizing how unreliable Trump is as an ally. Make that as a pawn.
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Old 15th March 2018, 10:54 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Let's see the evidence that he didn't do it? Glenn, seriously?
No. Let's see the evidence, full stop.

At the moment there's no evidence either way that would stand up in a (decent) court of law.
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Old 15th March 2018, 11:00 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
No. Let's see the evidence, full stop.

At the moment there's no evidence either way that would stand up in a (decent) court of law.
The evidence is pretty clear. If you owned a unique gun, and that gun was used to kill someone, and you were unable or unwilling to give any account of how this might have come about, it can be reasonably concluded that you or a proxy committed the crime.
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Old 15th March 2018, 11:16 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is nothing knew about false flags between Russia and Britain. This a Wikipedia about activities in the 1920s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter
Are you suggesting that Zinoviev poisoned Skripal?
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Old 15th March 2018, 01:23 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The evidence is pretty clear. If you owned a unique gun, and that gun was used to kill someone, and you were unable or unwilling to give any account of how this might have come about, it can be reasonably concluded that you or a proxy committed the crime.
What is the "unique gun" in this case?

"Novichok was developed at a laboratory complex in Shikhany, in central Russia, according to a British weapons expert, Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, and a Russian chemist involved in the chemical weapons programme, Vil Mirzayanov, who later defected to the US. Mirzayanov said the novichok was tested at Nukus, in Uzbekistan.

The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”

The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
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Old 15th March 2018, 01:43 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
Which means that these poor Russians could have been poisoned by Tonga or Papua New Guinea.
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Old 15th March 2018, 01:45 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
What is the "unique gun" in this case?

"Novichok was developed at a laboratory complex in Shikhany, in central Russia, according to a British weapons expert, Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, and a Russian chemist involved in the chemical weapons programme, Vil Mirzayanov, who later defected to the US. Mirzayanov said the novichok was tested at Nukus, in Uzbekistan.

The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”

The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
And someone could have made a replica of your unique gun and used that for the murder, but without any evidence, and since the hypothetical you refuses to even suggest a way by which this might be possible, the conclusion remains.
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Old 15th March 2018, 02:35 PM   #290
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Consensus of opinion in the pub is that we shouldn't trust a word the government tell us and the BBC are just Tory propaganda.

They seem to think we should be trusting Putin and Russia Today as telling the truth not the Paedo loving Tories and BBC.

Which to my mind is a worrying trend.
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:00 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
And someone could have made a replica of your unique gun and used that for the murder, but without any evidence, and since the hypothetical you refuses to even suggest a way by which this might be possible, the conclusion remains.
"Unique gun" is your construct, not mine. This is a generic 'gun', though not a common one.
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:11 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
However, if I were Putin aiming to bump off these people I'd make sure that I could show that 'my hands are clean' as far as is humanly possible.
Not in the least. Why? If part of the goal is to terrorize other "traitors" with the killing of this one, it needs to be obvious enough to them that the act was the vengeance of the Motherland.

Putin doesn't care if his hands are "clean". It's not like he can be arrested; but it's also not like he has to individually sign the death warrant either. It's likely closer to the truth that he has green-lighted the FSB to "deal with" so-called enemies of the state generally, and the specifics can all be handled at lower levels.
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:24 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Putin may be realizing how unreliable Trump is as an ally. Make that as a pawn.

maybe not so much as an ally of putin

how much is trump really an ally of Britain or of Nato?

i havent seen any good evidence yet that putin is losing on this yet
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:13 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
Parts of the city (I call Salisbury a city in the loosest terms)
Nothing loose about it. It's got a cathedral (and a quite magnificent specimen).
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:30 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
maybe not so much as an ally of putin

how much is trump really an ally of Britain or of Nato?

i havent seen any good evidence yet that putin is losing on this yet
Oh, I quite agree. Trump isn't a reliable ally, friend, spouse, lover, business associate, or president of anyone. And yes, Putin's still coming out ahead.
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:13 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Nothing loose about it. It's got a cathedral (and a quite magnificent specimen).
It's got a steak too which I've had here in America. Seems to be just a hamburger in gravy, but there's nothing wrong with that.
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:21 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Consensus of opinion in the pub is that we shouldn't trust a word the government tell us and the BBC are just Tory propaganda.

They seem to think we should be trusting Putin and Russia Today as telling the truth not the Paedo loving Tories and BBC.

Which to my mind is a worrying trend.
Welcome to the age of the internet flat earther and Putin enthusiast.
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:31 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
.

The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”

The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
This is the same Craig Murray who thinks MI5 spray painted SNP offices with "Q" (for quisling) and who thinks that:

"Murray claimed the CIA "are absolutely making it up" in their report claiming a Russian had provided*WikiLeaks*with thousands of private emails from theDemocratic National Committee. "I know who leaked them," Murray said. "I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things".[48]*According to Murray, interviewed by the*Daily Mail*in December 2016, the release of*Democratic National Committee emails*was the deed of a disgruntled Democrat employee"

Seems like a level headed guy.
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:36 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post

The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”

The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
Murray has been a Putin apologist for years. His current occupation is propagandist.
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Old 15th March 2018, 06:43 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The evidence is pretty clear. If you owned a unique gun, and that gun was used to kill someone, and you were unable or unwilling to give any account of how this might have come about, it can be reasonably concluded that you or a proxy committed the crime.
I agree with you but that is the worst *********** analogy I've heard in a couple years.

I'll let someone else pick it apart though, as I do think jumping to conclusions in this situation is idiocy even though my personal gut feeling says Russia.
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Old 15th March 2018, 07:20 PM   #301
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Craig Murray on the reaction to his crimethink: Bothered By Midgies

Originally Posted by Craig Murray
In 13 years of running my blog I have never been exposed to such a tirade of abuse as I have for refusing to accept without evidence that Russia is the only possible culprit for the Salisbury attack. The abuse has mostly been on twitter, and much of the most venomous stuff has come from corporate and state media “journalists”. I suppose I am a standing rebuke to them for merely being stenographers to power and never doing any actual research, but that hardly explains the visceral levels of hatred exhibited.

Today they are all terrifically happy and sharing amongst themselves a lengthy twitter thread by a Blairite and chemist called Clyde Davis in which they all say I am “owned” and my article disproven. There are two remarkable things about this thread.

The first remarkable thing is the remarkably high percentage of those who are sharing it with commendations who are mainstream media journalists. Last I saw was George Monbiot five minutes ago, but there are dozens. I suppose it is important to them as validating their decision to support uncritically the government line without doing any actual journalism.

The second remarkable thing is that the thread they are all sharing misses out almost all my side of the conversation. An objective observer might think that made it hard to say who “won” the argument. To be fair, that is probably not deliberate but appears to be a result of how twitter does threading. Here I reconstruct by paste the thread with my responses. It may give a better idea of whether Mr Davis completely “destroys” my article, as the “professional” journalists are all claiming. [...]
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Old 15th March 2018, 11:17 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I agree with you but that is the worst *********** analogy I've heard in a couple years.

I'll let someone else pick it apart though, as I do think jumping to conclusions in this situation is idiocy even though my personal gut feeling says Russia.
How about, someone was killed by an exotic poison that's difficult to make and you are one of the few people able to make that poison and the only person who is known to have made this poison, whilst the victim was someone you had threatened and you had a history of killing people with exotic poisons?
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Old 15th March 2018, 11:31 PM   #303
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I just love that Russia chose to attempt to murder this guy with the least inconspicuous weapon possible. Really, they have no plausible deniability whatsoever. They could have shot or poisoned him with something more generic yet they chose a neurotoxin that only they produce.

As with killing litovenko with polonium, it's obvious that Russia wanted to be found out. Now they get revel in the glory of being murderous thugs while at the same time maintaining this self-pitying overdog victim mentality: everyone blames Russia for everything! Shooting down airliners, invading Crimea! It's all lies! Russia is innocent! We didn't do nothing!

Don't worry though, the usual suspects will gladly parrot the Kremlin's line no matter how much the Russian government grins.
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Old 15th March 2018, 11:33 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.
Craig Murray is NOT a reliable source. He has developed interesting views since leaving Government service.
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Old 16th March 2018, 12:32 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Consensus of opinion in the pub is that we shouldn't trust a word the government tell us and the BBC are just Tory propaganda.

They seem to think we should be trusting Putin and Russia Today as telling the truth not the Paedo loving Tories and BBC.

Which to my mind is a worrying trend.
Don't they know that Putin is a paedophile? He's know for being sexually attracted towards pre-teen boys.

At least once he couldn't keep his libido in check and kissed the chest of a young boy in public for ***** sake. No paedo though, it's perfectly normal and healthy thing to do in Russia.
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Old 16th March 2018, 12:34 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I just love that Russia chose to attempt to murder this guy with the least inconspicuous weapon possible. Really, they have no plausible deniability whatsoever. They could have shot or poisoned him with something more generic yet they chose a neurotoxin that only they produce.

As with killing litovenko with polonium, it's obvious that Russia wanted to be found out. Now they get revel in the glory of being murderous thugs while at the same time maintaining this self-pitying overdog mentality: everyone blames Russia for everything! Shooting down airliners, invading Crimea! It's all lies! Russia is innocent!

Don't worry though, the usual suspects will gladly parrot the Kremlin's line no matter how much the Russian government grins.
This.

I like the suggestion that maybe it was the Russian mafia. I'm not sure that I'd like to be a Russian mafia leader who got hold of WMDs without Putin's permission. I'd guess the resources of the state would be concentrated on dealing with them. Putin is by far the strongest mafia leader in Russia.
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Old 16th March 2018, 12:58 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I just love that Russia chose to attempt to murder this guy with the least inconspicuous weapon possible. Really, they have no plausible deniability whatsoever. They could have shot or poisoned him with something more generic yet they chose a neurotoxin that only they produce.

As with killing litovenko with polonium, it's obvious that Russia wanted to be found out. Now they get revel in the glory of being murderous thugs while at the same time maintaining this self-pitying overdog mentality: everyone blames Russia for everything! Shooting down airliners, invading Crimea! It's all lies! Russia is innocent!

Don't worry though, the usual suspects will gladly parrot the Kremlin's line no matter how much the Russian government grins.
Mrs Don and I have been spending a lot of time in the car together and as a result have discussed this at some length. IMO whoever did this wanted to make sure that the finger was pointed at the Russian state.

It could be the Russian mafia, it could be another security service seeking to implicate the Russians, it could be Putin brazenly sending a message to all potential dissidents or indeed the whole thing could be a false flag and it was merely a case of a dodgy prawn and then MI6 have seized on it as a way of taking a potshot at Russia.

It doesn't make sense to me for Putin to have ordered the attack in such a transparent way but that's not the point, it's whether it makes sense to Putin.
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:08 AM   #308
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It makes sense to me, now I've thought it through. By doing this then flatly denying it he terrifies his opponents and he gets to play the nation's great defender against those nations who "hysterically" say Russia did it. This will increase the turnout for his guaranteed reelection.
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:22 AM   #309
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Putin has nothing but disdain for western democracies: he is certain that they cannot possibly mount a united front against him because it is too easy to derail them through sowing internal strife.
And history seems to support this view.
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:30 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It makes sense to me, now I've thought it through. By doing this then flatly denying it he terrifies his opponents and he gets to play the nation's great defender against those nations who "hysterically" say Russia did it. This will increase the turnout for his guaranteed reelection.
Agreed, though it might go even further. If it turns out that renegade Uzbeks kept 'samples' of novichok when the production facility was dismantled (with the help of the USA, by the way) then Putin ends up with what looks like a legitimate grievance and The West with egg on its face. To repeat my original comment - if international treaties stipulate a procedure for such cases then the UK seems to have made a mistake by not following it.
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:32 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Mrs Don and I have been spending a lot of time in the car together and as a result have discussed this at some length. IMO whoever did this wanted to make sure that the finger was pointed at the Russian state.

It could be the Russian mafia, it could be another security service seeking to implicate the Russians, it could be Putin brazenly sending a message to all potential dissidents or indeed the whole thing could be a false flag and it was merely a case of a dodgy prawn and then MI6 have seized on it as a way of taking a potshot at Russia.

It doesn't make sense to me for Putin to have ordered the attack in such a transparent way but that's not the point, it's whether it makes sense to Putin.
Sorry, but most of those 'alternative explanations' are bollocks.

Scientific analysis has shown it was 'military grade nerve agent' of a sort only produced by one site in Russia. Analysis would probably also show roughly when it was made. May's statement about a clandestine chemicals weapons programme in Russia suggests that it was made relatively recently, and after Russia publicly declared it had destroyed its stocks.

It is unbelievable that in Putin's Russia that a clandestine chemicals weapons programme would leak. The US, France and Germany agree that there is no other plausible explanation apart from an act of the Russian state.

As to why it happened, I agree, just ask Putin.
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:35 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Nothing loose about it. It's got a cathedral (and a quite magnificent specimen).
[aside]
That is not the definition of a city. Salisbury is a city, not because of its cathedral, but because it has been granted city status by the monarch. Here is a list of towns with cathedrals. [/aside]
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:37 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
if international treaties stipulate a procedure for such cases then the UK seems to have made a mistake by not following it.
What has the UK not followed?

IIRC the UK has sent a sample to the international body overseeing chemical weapons and asked them to investigate, both the attack and Russia's production of it.

The UK brought it before the UN Security Council.

May's statement contained a key phrase 'unlawful use of force' which opens up a lot of possible unilateral actions under the UN Charter.

What else do you think the UK should have done?
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Old 16th March 2018, 01:49 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
What has the UK not followed?

IIRC the UK has sent a sample to the international body overseeing chemical weapons and asked them to investigate, both the attack and Russia's production of it.
I'm reading that the UK is going to send a sample.

"The UK's Foreign Minister Boris Johnson has said London would submit a sample of the Novichok nerve agent used in former Russian spy's poisoning to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), a UN body."

The tactical mistake, imo, was to go public with such strong accusations before following procedure.
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:04 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The tactical mistake, imo, was to go public with such strong accusations before following procedure.
Procedure of OPCW:

Quote:
8. Each State Party has the right to request and, subject to the procedures set forth in paragraphs 9, 10 and 11, to receive assistance and protection against the use or threat of use of chemical weapons if it considers that:
(a) Chemical weapons have been used against i
t;
(b) Riot control agents have been used against it as a method of warfare; or
(c) It is threatened by actions or activities of any State that are prohibited for States Parties by Article I.
9. The request, substantiated by relevant information, shall be submitted to the Director-General, who shall transmit it immediately to the Executive Council and to all States Parties. The Director-General shall immediately forward the request to States Parties which have volunteered, in accordance with paragraphs 7 (b) and (c), to dispatch emergency assistance in case of use of chemical weapons or use of riot control agents as a method of warfare, or humanitarian assistance in case of serious threat of use of chemical weapons or serious threat of use of riot control agents as a method of warfare to the State Party concerned not later than 12 hours after receipt of the request. The Director-General shall initiate, not later than 24 hours after receipt of the request, an investigation in order to provide foundation for further action. He shall complete the investigation within 72 hours and forward a report to the Executive Council. If additional time is required for completion of the investigation, an interim report shall be submitted within the same time-frame. The additional time required for investigation shall not exceed 72 hours. It may, however, be further extended by similar periods. Reports at the end of each additional period shall be submitted to the Executive Council. The investigation shall, as appropriate and in conformity with the request and the information accompanying the request, establish relevant facts related to the request as well as the type and scope of supplementary assistance and protection needed.
10. The Executive Council shall meet not later than 24 hours after receiving an investigation report to consider the situation and shall take a decision by simple majority within the following 24 hours on whether to instruct the Technical Secretariat to provide supplementary assistance. The Technical Secretariat shall immediately transmit to all States Parties and relevant international organizations the investigation report and the decision taken by the Executive Council. When so decided by the Executive Council, the Director-General shall provide assistance immediately. For this purpose, the Director-General may cooperate with the requesting State Party, other States Parties and relevant international organizations. The States Parties shall make the fullest possible efforts to provide assistance.
11. If the information available from the ongoing investigation or other reliable sources would give sufficient proof that there are victims of use of chemical weapons and immediate action is indispensable, the Director-General shall notify all States Parties and shall take emergency measures of assistance, using the resources the Conference has placed at his disposal for such contingencies. The Director-General shall keep the Executive Council informed of actions undertaken pursuant to this paragraph.
So what did the UK not do?
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:33 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It makes sense to me, now I've thought it through. By doing this then flatly denying it he terrifies his opponents and he gets to play the nation's great defender against those nations who "hysterically" say Russia did it. This will increase the turnout for his guaranteed reelection.
Indeed. Since Putin's re-election in 2012 Russian propaganda has nurtured a sense of victimhood among it's people based upon the notion that the west unfairly blames Russia for various things.

It uses this to drive a wedge between the Russian people and the west and to focus anger, born from resentment, against things deemed western. The amount of vitriol against the "fascist western russophobes" is comparable to the two minutes of hate in 1984.

Plus as a bonus Russia gets to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in the west. This is why they are so smug about it.

"We might have done it but maybe we didn't... he he. Maybe it was your own government that did It? They have lied before you know, just like us. You can't trust anyone these days. Have seen the evidence with your own eyes? No? Then keep an open mind, who knows what happened and why really. Facts and truth are just opinions anyways... We are totally honest this time though! *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*."
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:50 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”

The original stuff could be all over the place by now, and could be manufactured still.
If Craig Murray told me it was raining, I'd have to look out the window to check.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 16th March 2018 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:53 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's got a steak too which I've had here in America. Seems to be just a hamburger in gravy, but there's nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely nothing to do with the Salibsury in England, other than that's probably where its inventor's surname originates.
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:58 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
... Plus as a bonus Russia gets to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in the west.
And also drive a wedge between Western nations as they try to agree on an appropriate response. Countries more beholden to Russian gas supplies aren't going to be enthusiastic about agreeing to new sanctions.
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Old 16th March 2018, 02:59 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I just love that Russia chose to attempt to murder this guy with the least inconspicuous weapon possible. Really, they have no plausible deniability whatsoever. They could have shot or poisoned him with something more generic yet they chose a neurotoxin that only they produce.

As with killing litovenko with polonium, it's obvious that Russia wanted to be found out. Now they get revel in the glory of being murderous thugs while at the same time maintaining this self-pitying overdog victim mentality: everyone blames Russia for everything! Shooting down airliners, invading Crimea! It's all lies! Russia is innocent! We didn't do nothing!

Don't worry though, the usual suspects will gladly parrot the Kremlin's line no matter how much the Russian government grins.
On the other hand, it's seems probable that the intention was to poison him in his own home, and his and Yulia's bodies might not have been found for days. That they went out and were subsequently found affected by the nerve agent in public was probably the last thing the Russians wanted. No doubt they intended it to be yet another of these "mystery deaths" that they can refer to on Russian state media in a jokey nudge-nudge wink-wink manner, dressing up ruthless threats as satire.
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