Haspel: Trump selects a torturer to head the CIA

MikeG

Now. Do it now.
MikeG
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What chance has a torturer got of being ratified as the head of the CIA?

She had “direct, first-hand knowledge of the extent of defendants’ involvement in the development of interrogation efforts”, and was “in a position to confirm that defendants never engaged in any interrogation activities that had not been previously and specifically approved in advance by the CIA on a case-by-case basis”.
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Regardless which option we follow, however, and especially in light of the planned psychological pressure techniques to be implemented, we need to get reasonable assurances that subject will remain in isolation and incommunicado for the remainder of his life.
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The latter from redacted court papers.

Is someone who ran the CIA's secret "Black Site" in Thailand suitable to head the CIA?
 
Plenty of Hawks would say she is over-qualified.
And it is an established fact that Trump doesn't care and probably doesn't even know about Due Process - sounds like a match made in hell.
 
Nonetheless, this needs ratifying by Congress. Not all Republicans are automatic Trump supporters. What are the chances enough of them will stand against this appointment?
 
McCain is going to spend a second saying that torture is wrong, then an hour rambling about being a POW and end up voting for Haspel to be confirmed anyway.
 
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At least one Republican is vocally opposed to appointing this illegitimate love child of Klaus Barbie:
The Republican senator Rand Paul said on Wednesday he would oppose Donald Trump’s nomination of Gina Haspel for director of the CIA, accusing her of having shown “joyful glee” during the torture of terrorism suspects.
[...]
“To really appoint the head cheerleader for waterboarding to be head of the CIA?” Paul told reporters on Capitol Hill. “I mean, how could you trust somebody who did that to be in charge of the CIA? To read of her glee during the waterboarding is just absolutely appalling.”
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It's not just that she advocates torture, she seems to be an outright sadist who gets off on it.

It's not (yet) clear what the former inhabitant of Hotel Hanoi thinks of this appointment.

Over here, it's Amnesty collection week. When I later this day go door-to-door with the collection box, should I use this as the main argument to donate to Amnesty?
 
MikeG said:
Nonetheless, this needs ratifying by Congress. Not all Republicans are automatic Trump supporters. What are the chances enough of them will stand against this appointment?
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Approximately zero. So far GOP representatives have made noises about not approving nominees but the process has been carefully orchestrated so that one or two can make a stand and yet the nominee is still appointed.

ddt said:
At least one Republican is vocally opposed to appointing this illegitimate love child of Klaus Barbie:
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As the immortal bard said:

Billy Waggledagger said:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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Rand Paul says many things but folds like a cheap deckchair when push comes to shove. He'll find a way past his personal objections for the good of the country :rolleyes:
 
Well, over here they think you folks are being to harsh. Our totally like legitimate government (because they now call him "Prime Minister" instead of General) says she's a sweetie and that we look forward to having a friend of Thailand in such a position. "Why, she used to be so considerate. Since the water here is not really safe for drinking, she'd have them use bottled water in the 'boarding. And she used to bring donuts for the soldiers we had on guard duty outside of the place that we didn't know anything about and surely didn't approve of or take part in, well other than rounding up the usual suspects and maybe softening 'em up a bit and the holding them down part, but really nothing other than that."
 
The Don said:
Approximately zero. So far GOP representatives have made noises about not approving nominees but the process has been carefully orchestrated so that one or two can make a stand and yet the nominee is still appointed.
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At this stage, two defectors is a problem, and one defector means Pence has to come to the Senate to cast the deciding vote.

The Don said:
As the immortal bard said:
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An interesting choice of quote, considering that it was Macbeth's response to the suicide of his wife who pushed him into his regime of terror.

The Don said:
Rand Paul says many things but folds like a cheap deckchair when push comes to shove. He'll find a way past his personal objections for the good of the country :rolleyes:
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I understand your cynicism, but, in his favor, he did vote earlier against Pompeo's appointment as CIA director on similar grounds.
 
ddt said:
At this stage, two defectors is a problem, and one defector means Pence has to come to the Senate to cast the deciding vote.
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Then there will be zero or one dissenting voices.

ddt said:
I understand your cynicism, but, in his favor, he did vote earlier against Pompeo's appointment as CIA director on similar grounds.
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....and Pompeo was confirmed - and would have been even if 14 Democratic Party senators hadn't voted for him too. It would be interesting to see whether Rand Paul is willing to dissent if it matters.
 
Some condottieri built like a two-door Amana refrigerator will go around to folks and tell them in a soft voice, "Mister Donny wantsa da votes to go-er fer da nice-a senora Haspel, capiche?"
 
Loss Leader said:
This nomination is going to sail through. Nobody in government cares.
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Time to get rid of this mob then, and get in some people who do care. Well, at least, that's what would happen in a healthy democracy.
 
The Don said:
....and Pompeo was confirmed - and would have been even if 14 Democratic Party senators hadn't voted for him too. It would be interesting to see whether Rand Paul is willing to dissent if it matters.
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Thanks a bunch for those sobering words. :mad:

Loss Leader said:
This nomination is going to sail through. Nobody in government cares.
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Just for my understanding, not to incite anything (how could I from across the ocean): are you effectively saying that a "Second Amendment solution" is the only thing that could keep us all from a sadistic torturer becoming head of the CIA?

I am, though, reminded of a certain Jefferson quote.
 
I like to believe that this is more 4D chess by Trump. As he can do to a topic with a simple tweet, with a simple nomination all the ugly Bush-era torture topics Obama swept under the carpet are back on stage again. ;)
 
MikeG said:
Time to get rid of this mob then, and get in some people who do care. Well, at least, that's what would happen in a healthy democracy.
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IMO "this mob" are the symptom and not the cause. It's the same with President Trump. Sure they are undermining democracy and making a mockery of effective government but the thing is that this is what a significant minority of the electorate, possibly the majority, want.

Ask "the man (or woman) on the street" about whether torture is acceptable in some circumstances and I'm sure that a surprising number are in support of it :(
 
Childlike Empress said:
I like to believe that this is more 4D chess by Trump. As he can do to a topic with a simple tweet, with a simple nomination all the ugly Bush-era torture topics Obama swept under the carpet are back on stage again. ;)
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I do believe that you have more faith in Trump than anyone else on the Forum.
 
ProPublica correction: Gina Haspel was not in charge during the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03...spel-not-involved-waterboarding-abu-zubaydah/

Apparently Haspel did not arrive at the base until shortly before the accused USS Cole bomber Nashiri was waterboarded three times, and after Zubaydah was waterboarded. So she was not connected with Zubaydah's extensive waterboarding.
 
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LTC8K6 said:
ProPublica correction: Gina Haspel was not in charge during the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03...spel-not-involved-waterboarding-abu-zubaydah/

Apparently Haspel did not arrive at the base until shortly before the accused USS Cole bomber Nashiri was waterboarded three times, and after Zubaydah was waterboarded. So she was not connected with Zubaydah's extensive waterboarding.
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well, that makes it easier to accept her as head of the CIA.
 
I would bet that Haspel will say she just drafted the cable ordering the destruction of the tapes, on orders from her superior, Rodriguez.

Which is probably true.

Maybe that would get Rodriguez to comment? I think he will still testify if he gets immunity?
 
LTC8K6 said:
ProPublica correction: Gina Haspel was not in charge during the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03...spel-not-involved-waterboarding-abu-zubaydah/

Apparently Haspel did not arrive at the base until shortly before the accused USS Cole bomber Nashiri was waterboarded three times, and after Zubaydah was waterboarded. So she was not connected with Zubaydah's extensive waterboarding.
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That makes it better? She only oversaw one waterboarding and not two? As to Abu Zubaydah's waterboarding, she still had a role in the coverup. Per the ProPublica's retraction:
The February 2017 ProPublica story did accurately report that Haspel later rose to a senior position at CIA headquarters, where she pushed her bosses to destroy the tapes of Zubaydah’s waterboarding. Her direct boss, the head of the agency’s Counterterrorism Center, ultimately signed the order to feed the 92 tapes into a shredder.
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As to whose fault the erroneous reporting is, I would lay the blame squarely on the CIA, even though ProPublica apologized. They asked the CIA for comments and they only got a vague "nearly every piece of reporting that you are seeking comment on is incorrect in whole or in part", even though it was drawn on declassified information and there had also been an extensive Senate report in 2014 on the whole torture thing.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I would bet that Haspel will say she just drafted the cable ordering the destruction of the tapes, on orders from her superior, Rodriguez.

Which is probably true.
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Not according to the ProPublica correction I cited before.

LTC8K6 said:
Maybe that would get Rodriguez to comment? I think he will still testify if he gets immunity?
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If the "immunity" also involves a subsequent extraordinary rendition flight to The Hague, I'm fine with it.

The only way the US washes this torture episode off is if everyone involved is effectively prosecuted and ends up in Club Fed or in Scheveningen prison, preferably for the rest of their lives.
 
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ddt said:
It's known as the Nuremberg defence.

Don't her supporters find it embarrassing if every aspect evokes an analogy with Nazis?
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LOL. Your own source debunks the "Nuremberg defence" analogy.

But to answer your question: No, I don't find it embarrassing. I remember the "Bushitler" years. Maybe if the left weren't making knee-jerk Nazi comparisons to everything on the right, all the time, for decades...

All the Nazi analogy really does is signal that the time for reasoned debate is over. There's a lot that could be argued for and against the propriety of this nomination, but you've already taken the discussion all the way to "Nazis!", so there's really no point in continuing, is there?
 
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Interesting (and for partisans sobering) read: As Trump Moves Toward War, “The Resistance” Refuses to Resist

About "Bloody Gina" and the reactions from some "Democrat" big-wigs to her nomination. Also contains a video of a statement Rand Paul made, apparently indeed "dissenting". And a theory by Jeremy Scahill that Trump indeed nominated her because he counts on not getting through with it - and then afterwards wants to sneak in his real favorite, Tom Cotton. Who is a total freak as well. Like most of the creatures running around in DC.
 
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The guy who went to prison for revealing CIA torture says -- what a surprise! -- that she should not be confirmed.
The CIA will not let me repeat her résumé or the widely reported specifics of how her work fit into the agency’s torture program, calling such details “currently and properly classified.” But I can say that Haspel was a protege of and chief of staff for Jose Rodriguez, the CIA’s notorious former deputy director for operations and former director of the Counterterrorism Center. And that Rodriguez eventually assigned Haspel to order the destruction of videotaped evidence of the torture of Abu Zubaida.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...517e912f125_story.html?utm_term=.78a432accb2a
 
Childlike Empress said:
That's one of the most disgusting things about the torture program: The only person who went to prison for it is the whistleblower John Kiriakou.
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A most rare point of agreement I find myself with you on, CE.

As a nation supposedly based on the rule of law, said law selectively applied is shamefully disgusting. My sense of justice is most offended when the big fish are protected. To me the law should be utterly blind to position, influence, wealth and power; all are to be treated equally.
 
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