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Old 15th May 2018, 01:21 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Would you consider it a reasonable insight that 'some, but not many' of the slaves may have preferred their previous condition, horrendous as it was, than to the unwelcome unknown that they faced? Was this insight applicable to her paper?
I would consider the argument applicable to winning a school debate. As an insight I think it's shallow and tendentious junk, but if you want it by all means you can have it.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:50 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I have not called her a racist. I figure what she says can speak for itself. I think it interesting at least that, required or not, though the point of view is a very disagreeable one to some, she appears to be very proud of it. Her account of the event is not that she was required to take a point of view and thought of a clever dodge to win, but that her thought led to what she considers an insight. No doubt many of us have taken ill advised positions in our youth, with or without requirements, but we don't all write to The Humanist about it in later years.
I independently came to the same take that you did. On hearing this was a formal debate I initially thought it was bogus and unfair to use her assigned position in the debate as indicative of her actual views. But then on reading her subsequent accounts of the event I was left with the strong suspicion that she actually possesses the views she championed in the debate. A strong suspicion, by no means a absolute conclusion, but one intriguingly consistent with her other actions.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:53 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I would consider the argument applicable to winning a school debate. As an insight I think it's shallow and tendentious junk, but if you want it by all means you can have it.
I hear you. Just trying to figure out its relevance to the thread.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:02 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hmm, indeed. She was assigned in 2010 to argue a pro-slavery position as part of a class project. She took this newfound (and forced) perspective and applied it to women's rights, forming the body of the paper.

The takeaway is what, again?

Eta: my bad, she wrote this paper in 2010 recalling an assignment from her middle school days, and she thought it was an odd assignment, too.

Is this the level of straw being grasped at to find this woman to be racist? Seriously?
lWell, there's also the two times she called police on black people doing ordinary things - once also blocking a guy in the dorm who was there to work on a group project, and this time that made it to tv.

So at this point, I don't think the case is thin at all.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:03 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I independently came to the same take that you did. On hearing this was a formal debate I initially thought it was bogus and unfair to use her assigned position in the debate as indicative of her actual views. But then on reading her subsequent accounts of the event I was left with the strong suspicion that she actually possesses the views she championed in the debate. A strong suspicion, by no means a absolute conclusion, but one intriguingly consistent with her other actions.
I came to the conclusion that she was forcing the odd anecdotal story as a vehicle for an attention-grabbing analogy to kick off her women's rights paper. Creative writing 101
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:09 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I came to the conclusion that she was forcing the odd anecdotal story as a vehicle for an attention-grabbing analogy to kick off her women's rights paper. Creative writing 101
If that was all, then maybe.

If she was proclaiming how she'd been convinced that slavery was "paternalistic" and had also had a history of harassing black people, then racism is the parsimonious explanation.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:09 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
lWell, there's also the two times she called police on black people doing ordinary things - once also blocking a guy in the dorm who was there to work on a group project, and this time that made it to tv.

So at this point, I don't think the case is thin at all.
That is certainly fair, although I would like to see how many whites also were on the receiving end of her busybody wrath ( I have admittedly not looked into it yet). Were her complaints proportional or did they have a noticeable melanoma bias?
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:15 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
lWell, there's also the two times she called police on black people doing ordinary things - once also blocking a guy in the dorm who was there to work on a group project, and this time that made it to tv.

So at this point, I don't think the case is thin at all.
That is the student who came to a meeting organized by Ms. Siyonbola and got lost in the stairwell. The way he recounts the encounter is unsettling:
Braasch: "you don't belong here"
Reneson: <tries to present Yale ID>
Braasch: <starts to scream>

Say what, she panicked at the thought there were black students at Yale?
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:17 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That is certainly fair, although I would like to see how many whites also were on the receiving end of her busybody wrath ( I have admittedly not looked into it yet). Were her complaints proportional or did they have a noticeable melanoma bias?
Why bother?

If I make racist comments and also harass black people, you don't need to check the number of white people I harass to say that I'm a racist. I would need to explain why I wasn't.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

Last edited by jimbob; 15th May 2018 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:22 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That is certainly fair, although I would like to see how many whites also were on the receiving end of her busybody wrath ( I have admittedly not looked into it yet). Were her complaints proportional or did they have a noticeable melanoma bias?
Nothing has come out about it. I would guess that, given the amount of media attention this case has gotten, a history like that might have appeared by now.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:35 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Would you consider it a reasonable insight that 'some, but not many' of the slaves may have preferred their previous condition, horrendous as it was, than to the unwelcome unknown that they faced? Was this insight applicable to her paper?
Are we in a high school debate? Okay, let's say we are. There were approximately 4 million slaves in the USA in 1860. How would you define some? Two? Twenty? Two hundred? Two thousand? Twenty thousand? Two-hundred thousand? Would finding out that even 5% of the slaves population "preferred" their previous condition provide any "reasonable insight," any useful or valid insight into the overall morality of slavery, its impact on the people enslaved, and the legitimacy of this "peculiar institution" in a just society? Would finding out that 95% of cancer patients would rather have chemotherapy than die of their disease provide any insight that chemotherapy was better than no cancer at all?
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:39 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Are we in a high school debate? Okay, let's say we are. There were approximately 4 million slaves in the USA in 1860. How would you define some? Two? Twenty? Two hundred? Two thousand? Twenty thousand? Two-hundred thousand? Would finding out that even 5% of the slaves population "preferred" their previous condition provide any "reasonable insight," any useful or valid insight into the overall morality of slavery, its impact on the people enslaved, and the legitimacy of this "peculiar institution" in a just society? Would finding out that 95% of cancer patients would rather have chemotherapy than die of their disease provide any insight that chemotherapy was better than no cancer at all?
Hey, I'm just trying to figure out why this paper is being cited (again). What the hell does it have to do with anything?
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Old 15th May 2018, 03:04 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Why bother?

If I make racist comments and also harass black people, you don't need to check the number of white people I harass to say that I'm a racist. I would need to explain why I wasn't.
I'm sorry, what were the racist comments? Harrassing two black people would lose its edge if she harassed a lot of people indiscriminately.
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Old 15th May 2018, 03:12 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hey, I'm just trying to figure out why this paper is being cited (again). What the hell does it have to do with anything?
I think it has to do with the attitude, opinions and personality of the person responsible for the event.
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Old 15th May 2018, 03:35 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hey, I'm just trying to figure out why this paper is being cited (again). What the hell does it have to do with anything?
I think it has to do with the personality, opinions and attitude of the person who precipitated the event.
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Old 15th May 2018, 03:37 PM   #376
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Yale University is introducing a new course to counteract the damage done to blacks by centuries of “whiteness”. The prestigious university will introduce the new course in the spring of 2018.

The course will teach students that the purpose and intent of “whiteness” was to conquer, humiliate and shame the descendants of African people.

I know one person who should sign up immediately.
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:32 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
Yale University is introducing a new course to counteract the damage done to blacks by centuries of “whiteness”. The prestigious university will introduce the new course in the spring of 2018.

The course will teach students that the purpose and intent of “whiteness” was to conquer, humiliate and shame the descendants of African people.

I know one person who should sign up immediately.
A potentially highly provocative and very interesting class. I would certainly consider taking it just to hear of this perspective, whether I agree or disagree with it. Any possibility it or the associated materials will be on line?

But I fear being disappointed. You see, I've been stirred up before may times by what seemed to be outrageous events or quotes, only to find that the reality was much more boring. For example what if the class actually focuses more on how the effect of white racism was to conquer, humiliate, and shame African people and their descendants, rather than the purpose or intent. Gee- I know that already. To help be judge whether I would enjoy the course or not- where did you obtain the description of this course that led you to this synopsis?
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:12 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
A potentially highly provocative and very interesting class. I would certainly consider taking it just to hear of this perspective, whether I agree or disagree with it. Any possibility it or the associated materials will be on line?

But I fear being disappointed. You see, I've been stirred up before may times by what seemed to be outrageous events or quotes, only to find that the reality was much more boring. For example what if the class actually focuses more on how the effect of white racism was to conquer, humiliate, and shame African people and their descendants, rather than the purpose or intent. Gee- I know that already. To help be judge whether I would enjoy the course or not- where did you obtain the description of this course that led you to this synopsis?
Link to Yale Course
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:09 AM   #379
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The course description seems a little too black and white for me.
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:06 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
...that isn't a link to the "Yale Course."

Thats a link to the Moonie Times, which cites "The College Fix", which describes itself as "Your Daily Dose of Right-Minded News and Commentary from Across the Nation".

Here is the link to the Yale course.

https://english.yale.edu/courses/con...ns-whiteness-0

The link doesn't tell us much. "The College Fix" has obtained the syllabus for the course: but have chosen not to publish it, choosing instead to only publish a single-out-of-context-cherry-picked-quote. Now: why do you think they chose to do that?
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:16 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
The link doesn't tell us much. "The College Fix" has obtained the syllabus for the course: but have chosen not to publish it, choosing instead to only publish a single-out-of-context-cherry-picked-quote. Now: why do you think they chose to do that?
Is it "Responsible journalism due to the on going Worldwide Pixel Shortage"? Or the other one?
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