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Old 9th May 2018, 11:51 PM   #41
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The cops shouldn't have done anything. Period. Let her have her goddamned nap and counsel the stupid bitch who made the call to have a good reason next time.
That I agree with.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The cops shouldn't have done anything. Period. Let her have her goddamned nap and counsel the stupid bitch who made the call to have a good reason next time.
Exactly. Reading threads like this lead me to wonder how many millions of hours of police time are wasted by 911 calls from the bigoted and the paranoid.

I’ve been in police emergency call centres often (as I have said many times I worked with my state’s police force for seven years) and the operators put callers through the hoops to demonstrate the call was genuine, and if it wasn’t, threatened (but rarely imposed) repercussions.

If some people in threads like this are to be believed, US police must respond to all 911 calls. This is the problem.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:59 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Obvious hyperbole is obvious. But I'm only off by 11%.
Or more accurately, a factor of 11
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Old 10th May 2018, 12:06 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
With the sound turned off in both videos it is easy to create a narrative that sounds much worse than it actually was.

Even if Yale has a policy against students sleeping in dorm rooms, if the woman in question was as quick to produce her student id as she was to whip out her mobile phone and start filming, I suspect there wouldn't be anything worth putting out on YouTube.
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Old 10th May 2018, 12:20 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
With the sound turned off in both videos it is easy to create a narrative that sounds much worse than it actually was.

Even if Yale has a policy against students sleeping in dorm rooms, if the woman in question was as quick to produce her student id as she was to whip out her mobile phone and start filming, I suspect there wouldn't be anything worth putting out on YouTube.
So some random moron stops you in a place you are entitled to be and demands to see your ID or they will call the cops?. Would you stop what you are doing, ask them to wait there, go back to your abode, get your id and show them? or would you politely tell them to mind their own business?
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Old 10th May 2018, 12:23 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The cops shouldn't have done anything. Period. Let her have her goddamned nap and counsel the stupid bitch who made the call to have a good reason next time.
I agree. The more I think about it, you need a key to get in the common room of any college dorm I know of.

Just because someone calls the cops on someone should not be an automatic assumption there was a legit reason to call.
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Old 10th May 2018, 12:31 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
...
Even if Yale has a policy against students sleeping in dorm rooms, if the woman in question was as quick to produce her student id as she was to whip out her mobile phone and start filming, I suspect there wouldn't be anything worth putting out on YouTube.
Oh come on. If you were black given the overwhelming evidence that has been in the news and social media, I'd pull my phone out too. And I would complain.

Until people see more and more of these bogus reasons to ask black and brown people for their IDs it won't stop.

If certain white people don't believe there is racism involved, fine, start posting your videos of it happening to you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 01:04 AM   #48
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Just out of interest, how many people live in each dorm (or on each floor, if every floor has its own common room)? I lived in a number of Uni accommodations and knew everybody in each one, at least by sight.
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Old 10th May 2018, 01:12 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I agree. The more I think about it, you need a key to get in the common room of any college dorm I know of.

Just because someone calls the cops on someone should not be an automatic assumption there was a legit reason to call.
My thing is this: Why would anyone ever call the police on someone who is not bothering anyone else? Especially at a university where you have no chance of knowing everyone who attends. Even setting aside the obvious racism, it's "See something, say something. It's not "See anything, say something."
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Old 10th May 2018, 01:20 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Just out of interest, how many people live in each dorm (or on each floor, if every floor has its own common room)? I lived in a number of Uni accommodations and knew everybody in each one, at least by sight.
Does it even matter, though? Who begrudges another human being a damn nap? Even if one knows the person doesn't live there, the person is napping. If this irritates you, leave them a note for when they wake up. Only a savage needlessly wakes a sleeping human...and it takes a very special [ed] kind of savage to call the police on someone for sleeping.
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Old 10th May 2018, 01:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
So some random moron stops you in a place you are entitled to be and demands to see your ID or they will call the cops?. Would you stop what you are doing, ask them to wait there, go back to your abode, get your id and show them?
No! I would...

Quote:
...politely tell them to...

....**** off!!!
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:17 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm not completely buying it. She could have said "I am going to my room" just as easily as getting into a video recording competition. Any attempt to prevent her from leaving the dorm room would have been considered "unlawfully detaining" in any sensible jurisdiction.

I am not saying that the girl wasn't treated reasonably. I am just not prepared to take everything at face value because the sound was deliberately deleted from the recording.
That's right, she should know her place, is that it?

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Old 10th May 2018, 02:27 AM   #53
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Okay, so the correct response from the student, in this instance is to look up, see the policeman, say 'I'm alright, thank you' and go back to sleep.

It's what I'd do. It's what anyone safe and secure in their knowledge of their right to be where they are would do. Any further requests made by the policeman should be declined with reference to the fourth amendment.

If I did it, I suspect it'd be fine. I'm white. (And not American. My home counties accent would swing it one way or the other, I think )

My, sadly well supported, assumption is that had the student acted reasonably, the policeman would not have.
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:39 AM   #54
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This is pathetic. As if students don't typically come from all nationalities. Visit School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) part of Uni London, and you can get an amazing curry at lunch time in their refectory.
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:42 AM   #55
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I think some sort of experiment is in order.

Call the police claiming 'suspicious activity' and see if the number of times a policeman is sent is influenced by the race of the person reported. Then you can see if there's bias.

You can be safe and secure you won't be charged with wasting police time or similar as the lady who called the police here has not been so charged.
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:20 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This was a Yale student who complained. Odds are in the 99% range that she was a Democrat.
Or a Bush.
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:23 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
We have found that walking around a college while not looking white is a crime requiring police action, so this is no major development.

Sleeping with intent while black? Arrest her officer.
We?
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:29 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Spin, racists, spin!
Oh you like spinning?
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:31 AM   #59
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"Racist, privileged white Liberal picks on helpless minority"


News at 11.
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Does it even matter, though? Who begrudges another human being a damn nap? Even if one knows the person doesn't live there, the person is napping. If this irritates you, leave them a note for when they wake up. Only a savage needlessly wakes a sleeping human...and it takes a very special [ed] kind of savage to call the police on someone for sleeping.
Well, if it's a homeless person getting out of the rain and sleeping on the couch then I suppose it's an issue. But I was more surprised that the complainer didn't know that the other student was a resident. But going straight for the cop solution is pretty nuts, either way.
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:36 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Well, if it's a homeless person getting out of the rain and sleeping on the couch then I suppose it's an issue. But I was more surprised that the complainer didn't know that the other student was a resident. But going straight for the cop solution is pretty nuts, either way.
ANd given the high rates of homelessness in college students what should be done about homeless college students?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ts-study-finds
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:49 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
We?
We doesn’t necessarily include you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 05:10 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The young woman in fact was very much a student and had fallen asleep while studying and was thus perfectly entitled to be there; but naturally the white student was "suspicious" and called the police on her, and the black female was forced to try to prove that she was actually a student - firstly by unlocking her own dorm room with a key and then (because that obviously wasn't good enough) by presenting a student ID, which then led to an extended hassle because of a typographical error.
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.

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The 34-year-old grad student in African Studies unlocked her dorm-room door in front of police to show that she lived there, but they still asked for her ID. "We're in a Yale building and we need to make sure that you belong here," the other officer told her.

After some hesitation, Siyonbola handed her ID over. "I really don't know if there's a justification for you actually being in the building," she told the officers, saying she needed to get back to working on her paper. Eventually two more officers arrived. After some confusion about Siyonbola's ID -- her name was apparently misspelled in a student database -- the police told her she was free to go.
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Old 10th May 2018, 05:12 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.
As it was her graduate student housing why would you think that?

It was the Hall of Graduate Studies after all not some undergrad dorm. Clearly anytime a college student falls asleep the police need to be called. It is simple, fall asleep in class get the police called on you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 05:32 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.
What? You can tell a 22 year old woman asleep from a 34 year old one? Sorry, I don’t believe you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 05:37 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.
Can I ask if, while you are at your place of work, you'd be prepared to forgo your fourth amendment rights and spend time demonstrating to a policeman that you're entitled to be there? That is, if this happened to you, you'd do as the policeman told you until they were satisfied of your entitlement, whatever that took?
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Old 10th May 2018, 05:52 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Or more accurately, a factor of 11
Nope. I said 99%. The (approximate) percentage offered was 88%. That's not close to a factor of 11. You seem to have forgotten which probability was under discussion.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:00 AM   #68
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I'm bothered the cops don't think their behaviour is harassment. It might not be illegal harassment, but most of the time they are harassing people.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I’ve been in police emergency call centres often (as I have said many times I worked with my state’s police force for seven years) and the operators put callers through the hoops to demonstrate the call was genuine, and if it wasn’t, threatened (but rarely imposed) repercussions.
Seems to me this approach could be very problematic. Somebody in an emergency situation is not likely thinking clearly. To be put through the ringer to "prove" a "genuine" emergency under the threat of repercussions seems ridiculous. I called 911 once for a homeless guy passed out in the street. One of his friends asked me to call. Another guy came along and said, "He does this all the time. He just wants a ride up the hill" (Where the hospital is. Easier to catch a free ride than walk). As I told that guy, "I'd rather call 911 and be wrong then not call 911 and be wrong." While I know full well there are bogus, time wasting calls - stalling at the operator leads to more problems. Just consider the kid who died in the mini-van recently. How that call wasn't taken seriously.

I do feel bad for first responders. Many times they are put in no-win situations. Something like this proves to be nothing, then they are awful, racist, evil people. They don't respond and that person commits a violent act in the dorm, then it's "How didn't they see the warning signs? Why didn't they respond to the call?" Really is a thankless job.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:26 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm talking about before the police were called (assuming that a student has no right to sleep in a common room). The other girl was a **** who would have had no right to prevent her from leaving.

You can't escalate a situation then complain that the situation escalated.
The other woman was a **** who had no right to tell her to leave the common room and to call the cops in the first place. She was wrong at the very point when she refused to accept the obvious explanation from a fellow student. What you seem to be suggesting is that she should have behaved in a way she should not have had to, in order to defuse a situation that should not have occurred at all. I am suggesting that she behaved appropriately.

I think while it may be policy not to use the common room as sleeping quarters, I'd also be willing to bet that it's not a breach of any rule to fall asleep there. It certainly would be a stretch to suggest that the cops should be called every time a student falls asleep over her work.

As for the question raised by others on whether it's odd or unexpected for a 34 year old woman to be in student housing, this was graduate student housing. It's not that easy for a graduate student to find affordable housing in New Haven, and Yale's graduate schools are very large and diverse. When my father went back to Yale to get a PhD in his 40's, although he came home on many nights and weekends, he had graduate housing there. It's very common, and more so for foreign students. That avenue is a dead end.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:34 AM   #71
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What if there actually was some sort of rule about not sleeping in that room? What if the hall monitor girl's beef was just as she said it was? What if when the sleeping woman had fallen asleep while studying she hadn't also fallen against the light switch and turned the lights off or whatever?! ...lol

...for apparently she was sleeping in the room with the lights off.

What if due to your own personal prejudices, beliefs and biases you are unable to see through obfuscation and misrepresentation by others?

...hmm...

"All guests are to sleep in student rooms, not in common rooms or any other space outside of the student’s room."

https://housing.yale.edu/sites/defau...dbook17-18.pdf

Maybe hall monitor girl was thinking about that or something similar... ...and that maybe the sleeping woman was a guest out of place.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:39 AM   #72
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We never see news stories about black people calling the police because a white person is sleeping someplace.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:40 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Seems to me this approach could be very problematic. Somebody in an emergency situation is not likely thinking clearly. To be put through the ringer to "prove" a "genuine" emergency under the threat of repercussions seems ridiculous. I called 911 once for a homeless guy passed out in the street. One of his friends asked me to call. Another guy came along and said, "He does this all the time. He just wants a ride up the hill" (Where the hospital is. Easier to catch a free ride than walk). As I told that guy, "I'd rather call 911 and be wrong then not call 911 and be wrong." While I know full well there are bogus, time wasting calls - stalling at the operator leads to more problems. Just consider the kid who died in the mini-van recently. How that call wasn't taken seriously.

I do feel bad for first responders. Many times they are put in no-win situations. Something like this proves to be nothing, then they are awful, racist, evil people. They don't respond and that person commits a violent act in the dorm, then it's "How didn't they see the warning signs? Why didn't they respond to the call?" Really is a thankless job.
Experience and discretion are the keys. Of course experienced staff easily detect genuine emergencies. You then need discretion to filter out the cranks and the non-emergencies, and there are a heap of these.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:43 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
What if there actually was some sort of rule about not sleeping in that room? What if the hall monitor girl's beef was just as she said it was? What if when the sleeping woman had fallen asleep while studying she hadn't also fallen against the light switch and turned the lights off or whatever?! ...lol

...for apparently she was sleeping in the room with the lights off.

What if due to your own personal prejudices, beliefs and biases you are unable to see through obfuscation and misrepresentation by others?

...hmm...

"All guests are to sleep in student rooms, not in common rooms or any other space outside of the student’s room."

https://housing.yale.edu/sites/defau...dbook17-18.pdf

Maybe hall monitor girl was thinking about that or something similar... ...and that maybe the sleeping woman was a guest out of place.
No one is saying she didn't break Yale rules. It isn't the job of law enforcement. The cops can't detain Tom Brady and check his ID to confirm he plays for the NFL for deflating footballs.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:44 AM   #75
Cavemonster
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
What if there actually was some sort of rule about not sleeping in that room? What if the hall monitor girl's beef was just as she said it was? What if when the sleeping woman had fallen asleep while studying she hadn't also fallen against the light switch and turned the lights off or whatever?! ...lol

...for apparently she was sleeping in the room with the lights off.

What if due to your own personal prejudices, beliefs and biases you are unable to see through obfuscation and misrepresentation by others?

...hmm...

"All guests are to sleep in student rooms, not in common rooms or any other space outside of the student’s room."

https://housing.yale.edu/sites/defau...dbook17-18.pdf

Maybe hall monitor girl was thinking about that or something similar... ...and that maybe the sleeping woman was a guest out of place.
The section you quoted pertains to "guests" non-students visiting.

A student is not a guest.

There is no rule about students napping in the common room.
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Old 10th May 2018, 06:45 AM   #76
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The college I work at is sometimes referred to as the “Harvard of the Midwest”....

We get calls like this with some frequency. Although the university is private, and mostly considered private property, some areas, like the bookstore and the library) are considered open to the public, and some (dorms, labs, etc) are not.

Students do fall asleep in buildings; I was just through the library yesterday and saw several...It’s finals week.
But... The surrounding neighborhood is decidedly “mixed” and we have a large contingent of homeless folks and panhandlers who carry on their business on the surrounding streets. We quite often get these folks coming on to campus to either “crash” somewhere or to steal.

Just two weeks ago we got a call about a young woman who’d been found by the cleaning crew sleeping in a music practice room for the last month. We checked her out and she was indeed a homeless person who was just using the facilities as a crash pad. This is pretty frequent.
We’ve had a lot of them over the years, and often they are theives as well.

So... Although the initial caller might well be accused of insensitivity and even “profiling”...Depending on the situation there he might well have been justified in bringing this person to the attention of the police.
Again, we had a similar case just last week... A young black woman was sleeping in a basement hallway and the staff called. We woke her up, checked her student ID, and waved by-by. We can all check the status of any student through an app on our cell-phones, the “Student Information Service”.
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Old 10th May 2018, 07:08 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Just out of interest, how many people live in each dorm (or on each floor, if every floor has its own common room)? I lived in a number of Uni accommodations and knew everybody in each one, at least by sight.
It probably varies, but the college dorms I stayed in about 25 years ago held about 400 students per building, with one large common room and a half-dozen little one-couch/two-chairs sitting areas where the wings came together. I didn't know them (the residents) all.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
As it was her graduate student housing why would you think that?

It was the Hall of Graduate Studies after all not some undergrad dorm. Clearly anytime a college student falls asleep the police need to be called. It is simple, fall asleep in class get the police called on you.
The dorm I stayed in back in the day was for transfer students, grad students, foreign students, and "non-traditional" students. There were a number of older students in that mix, a 34 year old person would not have been out of place. We had some students in their 50's and 60's even, literally dozens in their 30's. There were no freshmen or sophomores in that dorm, the focus was on older students who were not local and didn't want to be bothered finding off-campus housing. I think most universities have an equivalent, it sounds like this was Yale's version.

"Non-traditional" refers to older students. Graduate students with families were eligible to live in "student-family" housing which were small apartments on a different part of campus. Our graduate/transfer/non-traditional dorm was physically identical to about nine other dorm buildings on campus, we just had a different mix of students.

Last edited by crescent; 10th May 2018 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:03 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I am not saying that the girl wasn't treated reasonably. I am just not prepared to take everything at face value because the sound was deliberately deleted from the recording.
The sound wasn't deleted, it's just not on by default (at least with me) because it's an embedded Facebook video.

The whole thing should at the very last have concluded when she produced the key to her dorm room and opened it. From that point on, do you really need ID and proof that she's a student? Really? At least the two white officers who were with her in the stairwell all the time acted sort of professional, and accepted it when she cut off various avenues of discussion, but the really grating part is that later on, the black officer who identifies them as their supervisor comes in, tries to restart that conversation, and really gets into her face.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:15 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Exactly. Reading threads like this lead me to wonder how many millions of hours of police time are wasted by 911 calls from the bigoted and the paranoid.
An obvious solution would be to have laws that allow you to charge the caller for false calls and for wasted police time.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I’ve been in police emergency call centres often (as I have said many times I worked with my state’s police force for seven years) and the operators put callers through the hoops to demonstrate the call was genuine, and if it wasn’t, threatened (but rarely imposed) repercussions.

If some people in threads like this are to be believed, US police must respond to all 911 calls. This is the problem.
I especially wonder what they do in cases where the initial report doesn't sound like an emergency. I was amazed to hear the call about the Starbucks case and that all it took for the manager was to say "I have someone who won't make a purchase or leave" and that was the whole call, no follow-up questions like "do they create a disturbance" at all.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:18 AM   #80
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This is apparently the SECOND time the same student has tried to report a black student as not belonging in that building within a couple months.

Article was in the Yale daily News. Having trouble linking from my phone.
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