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Old 10th May 2018, 08:24 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
It probably varies, but the college dorms I stayed in about 25 years ago held about 400 students per building, with one large common room and a half-dozen little one-couch/two-chairs sitting areas where the wings came together. I didn't know them (the residents) all.
Thank you, I was wondering the same as GlennB; the equivalent of dorms we have here have at least a common room per hallway, i.e., at most 15 dorm rooms.

But unlike a library or a college building, the outer door to the dorm would still be locked and require a key to enter, right? So little chance of homeless or other non-qualified persons to get into there in the first place.

Moreover, Ms. Siyonbola fell asleep on the couch while working on a paper. I infer from that that she had books and papers lying around on the table in front of her. That should also have been a clue to both the bigot caller and the police that she belonged there.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:28 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
My, sadly well supported, assumption is that had the student acted reasonably, the policeman would not have.
One more for the blackie should know her place then?

She opened her dorm room with her key! What was the evidence the cops were going on? A false assertion.

Since when does someone with a room key need to prove that's her dorm room?

Something is wrong with the police protocol. I'm sorry, there is something wrong with having to show your ID to them anytime someone calls the cops on you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:31 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
But unlike a library or a college building, the outer door to the dorm would still be locked and require a key to enter, right? So little chance of homeless or other non-qualified persons to get into there in the first place.
Our's required keys to get in the side doors at all times, the front door was unlocked during the daytime on weekdays but locked at all other times.

So, naturally, the residents liked to prop open the side doors....
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:36 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I think some sort of experiment is in order.

Call the police claiming 'suspicious activity' and see if the number of times a policeman is sent is influenced by the race of the person reported. Then you can see if there's bias.

You can be safe and secure you won't be charged with wasting police time or similar as the lady who called the police here has not been so charged.
How about just review records of calls for 'suspicious activity' responses?

We already have records, lots of them, that police disproportionately stop black drivers, stop and frisk in NY, and I'm sure there are many more times they stop pedestrians walking while black as well.

A black doctor I know has been pulled over for nothing more than once while driving his Eddie Bauer (aka fancy) Ford SUV. He's also been stopped while jogging!

Have you ever been pulled over for nothing?
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:37 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
What if there actually was some sort of rule about not sleeping in that room? What if the hall monitor girl's beef was just as she said it was? What if when the sleeping woman had fallen asleep while studying she hadn't also fallen against the light switch and turned the lights off or whatever?! ...lol

...for apparently she was sleeping in the room with the lights off.

What if due to your own personal prejudices, beliefs and biases you are unable to see through obfuscation and misrepresentation by others?

...hmm...

"All guests are to sleep in student rooms, not in common rooms or any other space outside of the student’s room."

https://housing.yale.edu/sites/defau...dbook17-18.pdf

Maybe hall monitor girl was thinking about that or something similar... ...and that maybe the sleeping woman was a guest out of place.
Is that an issue for the RA/RD or for the campus police?

The caller seems to have no sense of scale. God, I hope she isn't an art student . . .
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:37 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This was a Yale student who complained. Odds are in the 99% range that she was a Democrat.
So liberals are the racists now?
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:42 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
So some random moron stops you in a place you are entitled to be and demands to see your ID or they will call the cops?. Would you stop what you are doing, ask them to wait there, go back to your abode, get your id and show them? or would you politely tell them to mind their own business?
I would definitely tell them to mind their own business. Depending on my mood, I might or might not do it politely.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:45 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
This "young woman" was actually 34-year-old graduate student. I'd think that would be the first clue that she seemed out of place in a dorm.


You think a 34 yr old college student in a dorm is suspicious?
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:48 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
This is apparently the SECOND time the same student has tried to report a black student as not belonging in that building within a couple months.

Article was in the Yale daily News. Having trouble linking from my phone.
From the Independent article I read:
"The videos showed Ms Siyonbola telling officers the woman who called them had also called police several months ago on a friend who had become lost in a stairwell of the building."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8344536.html
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:48 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nope. I said 99%. The (approximate) percentage offered was 88%. That's not close to a factor of 11. You seem to have forgotten which probability was under discussion.
Given calling the police on a student sleeping in the dorm common room is very odd thing to do, I don't think your rationale that the political leanings of the majority of the students is a relevant variable.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:54 AM   #91
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I think some of the argument occurring here is very interesting, and perhaps it also illustrates where there is a real problem in our society. I don't think anyone arguing here (at least so far) could be called a racist, and all are pretty well agreed that the event was a sorry one and a mistake, etc. And yet we still get the idea from some that Siyonbola should have defused the situation, behaved deferentially, just picked up and gone to her room instead of making a fuss. Just as with the Starbuck's incident and others recently, there seems to be an equivocal attitude - that even though she was right she was wrong to assert it.

I happen to disagree. Certainly the indignity was a small one, and by itself perhaps not worth making a national issue of, but implying as it does a deep and pervasive problem of bias, and being a sample of an indignity that occurs over and over, becoming a nearly routine aspect of the life of someone black, I think Siyonbola was completely right to cause a confrontation, to make a movie, to escalate the incident, in short to make a fuss about something that needs a fuss to be made.
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Old 10th May 2018, 08:56 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Seems to me this approach could be very problematic. Somebody in an emergency situation is not likely thinking clearly. To be put through the ringer to "prove" a "genuine" emergency under the threat of repercussions seems ridiculous. I called 911 once for a homeless guy passed out in the street. One of his friends asked me to call. Another guy came along and said, "He does this all the time. He just wants a ride up the hill" (Where the hospital is. Easier to catch a free ride than walk). As I told that guy, "I'd rather call 911 and be wrong then not call 911 and be wrong." While I know full well there are bogus, time wasting calls - stalling at the operator leads to more problems. Just consider the kid who died in the mini-van recently. How that call wasn't taken seriously.

I do feel bad for first responders. Many times they are put in no-win situations. Something like this proves to be nothing, then they are awful, racist, evil people. They don't respond and that person commits a violent act in the dorm, then it's "How didn't they see the warning signs? Why didn't they respond to the call?" Really is a thankless job.
She opened her dorm room with a key. Why the need to check her ID, and not just that, but call to check the student registry to make sure she was a registered student?

Think about it. Did the cops really think the person who called them knew every student in her dorm and that she was so sure this wasn't one of them the cops felt the need to be absolutely certain checking ID, registration as a student and that she lived there?

Same with the cops and the two students on the college tour? Why didn't they approach the tour leader instead of the students first?
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:09 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Certainly the indignity was a small one
I agree with you up to this point.

Given that the student who made the report had very recently made a false report on the victim's friend for the exact same reason- I think the police taking this report seriously to the extent that opening the dorm room and producing an ID was not sufficient, that sends a STRONG message of what the institution values. If I were a black student facing this, I might feel VERY unwelcome.
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:10 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh come on. If you were black given the overwhelming evidence that has been in the news and social media, I'd pull my phone out too. And I would complain.

Until people see more and more of these bogus reasons to ask black and brown people for their IDs it won't stop.

If certain white people don't believe there is racism involved, fine, start posting your videos of it happening to you.
Oddly enough, I still haven't seen any of these, nor any videos of the person who called the police having the cops turn on them for wasting time.

What I have seen, however, is an increasing number of Native Americans posting videos of police mistreatment onto social media - from police who freak out over their tribal ID, random idiots who are frightened by them because they're quiet, and the like.
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:20 AM   #95
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I'd like to hear both sides of the story. Blacks in college or University are very very common. Were there other factors in the white student's mistaken call? This story sounds strange to me because even as old as I am we had blacks in college and as far as I know the police were never called.
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:26 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Oddly enough, I still haven't seen any of these, nor any videos of the person who called the police having the cops turn on them for wasting time.
CNN seems to be reporting that they did that in this case

"The officers in the dorm admonished the student who called police, saying Siyonbola had every right to be present, according to Kimberly Goff-Crews, Yale's vice president for Student Life.
CNN has reached out to the other student for comment."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/us/ya...rnd/index.html
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:27 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I'd like to hear both sides of the story. Blacks in college or University are very very common. Were there other factors in the white student's mistaken call? This story sounds strange to me because even as old as I am we had blacks in college and as far as I know the police were never called.
We had a dead deer left in the elevator of our dorm and I don't think the cops were called.
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:32 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I'd like to hear both sides of the story. Blacks in college or University are very very common. Were there other factors in the white student's mistaken call? This story sounds strange to me because even as old as I am we had blacks in college and as far as I know the police were never called.
Well, one other factor that has come up is the person making the complaint, who has done it before, and who may, if the reports are accurate, be mentally disturbed.

One might guess that Siyambola did not look, to some, like a student, but that is a far cry from a person refusing to believe it when corrected, and from the police refusing repeatedly to believe it first when it was stated, second when she observed that the person making the complaint was a repeat offender, third when she opened her dorm room, and fourth when she presented her student ID. I think at some point the other side of the story becomes less relevant.
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Old 10th May 2018, 09:41 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
She opened her dorm room with a key. Why the need to check her ID, and not just that, but call to check the student registry to make sure she was a registered student?

Think about it. Did the cops really think the person who called them knew every student in her dorm and that she was so sure this wasn't one of them the cops felt the need to be absolutely certain checking ID, registration as a student and that she lived there?

Same with the cops and the two students on the college tour? Why didn't they approach the tour leader instead of the students first?
Checking a person's ID or otherwise proving their identity is a basic element of any call an officer will respond to. I can't really think of an exception. If nothing else, it ensures accuracy in the ensuing report.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:10 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Checking a person's ID or otherwise proving their identity is a basic element of any call an officer will respond to. I can't really think of an exception. If nothing else, it ensures accuracy in the ensuing report.
"Stop and Identify" statutes require a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed.

To detain until identity is provided would be unconstitutional without that reasonable suspicion.

And Connecticut doesn't even have stop and ID laws.

There are a lot of people in these threads commenting on what police "always" do or are "obligated" to do based on very limited experience and guesswork.

In most of these cases, a choice is being made by the officers or the department, and in many, it is a poor choice.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This was a Yale student who complained. Odds are in the 99% range that she was a Democrat.
Not so much.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:15 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So liberals are the racists now?
What do you mean, now? Liberals have a long and storied history of racism. It's not a new development. Only amnesia about that history is new.

And no, since I know you're going to get your panties in a bunch about it, I'm not claiming that conservatives are any better. There's racists everywhere. Always have been.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:18 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
One more for the blackie should know her place then?

She opened her dorm room with her key! What was the evidence the cops were going on? A false assertion.

Since when does someone with a room key need to prove that's her dorm room?

Something is wrong with the police protocol. I'm sorry, there is something wrong with having to show your ID to them anytime someone calls the cops on you.
I think you may have misinterpreted my comments. You did read the whole thing, right? And not just the bit you posted?

I'm actually offended at the level of misinterpretation required to assign me to the "blackie should know her place" shower.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:20 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I think this woman is most likely a scumbag, but that article is stirring the pot a little with the listing of her middle school debate history. I feel like in the game of social media telephone that's going to be quickly truncated to "She has argued that slavery is good".
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:21 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
The college I work at is sometimes referred to as the “Harvard of the Midwest”....

We get calls like this with some frequency. Although the university is private, and mostly considered private property, some areas, like the bookstore and the library) are considered open to the public, and some (dorms, labs, etc) are not.

Students do fall asleep in buildings; I was just through the library yesterday and saw several...It’s finals week.
But... The surrounding neighborhood is decidedly “mixed” and we have a large contingent of homeless folks and panhandlers who carry on their business on the surrounding streets. We quite often get these folks coming on to campus to either “crash” somewhere or to steal.

Just two weeks ago we got a call about a young woman who’d been found by the cleaning crew sleeping in a music practice room for the last month. We checked her out and she was indeed a homeless person who was just using the facilities as a crash pad. This is pretty frequent.
We’ve had a lot of them over the years, and often they are theives as well.

So... Although the initial caller might well be accused of insensitivity and even “profiling”...Depending on the situation there he might well have been justified in bringing this person to the attention of the police.
Again, we had a similar case just last week... A young black woman was sleeping in a basement hallway and the staff called. We woke her up, checked her student ID, and waved by-by. We can all check the status of any student through an app on our cell-phones, the “Student Information Service”.
Your examples are not about dorms or dorm common rooms. In addition, I know who the homeless people are sleeping in the library during the day. And it's not skin color that gives them away. If you are homeless you don't have clean clothes and you have a fair amount of stuff.

If a legit black student in a dorm building unlocked her dorm room door, would that be enough? Would you not consider, OK, maybe the student had a chip on their shoulder about showing you ID and leave it at the room key?

Some cops get all pissy if you don't show them ID they ask for, but do they really have no clue why a black woman in her own dorm building doing nothing wrong might not like the intrusion?
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:22 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How about just review records of calls for 'suspicious activity' responses?

We already have records, lots of them, that police disproportionately stop black drivers, stop and frisk in NY, and I'm sure there are many more times they stop pedestrians walking while black as well.

A black doctor I know has been pulled over for nothing more than once while driving his Eddie Bauer (aka fancy) Ford SUV. He's also been stopped while jogging!

Have you ever been pulled over for nothing?
Well, yes. But I'm white, have a nice, middle-class accent and live in the UK. I have very, very different interactions with policeman than do black people in the US.


Again, I urge you to go back and re-read what I've written.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:23 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
That's a mixed bag. The slavery debate thing tells us nothing about her, it was an assigned position. The fact that they put it in the headline indicates that this is clickbait. The burqa thing and the anti-hate speech legislation are associated with conservatives now, but anti-hate speech thing is a classical liberal position, and the burqa thing aligns with her anti-religion, pro-women's rights stances, which are more liberal. And getting a philosophy degree after you've already gotten multiple degrees seems like someone who's pretty enamored of academia and university life, which suggests liberalism more than conservatism. So I can't tell from this what she would consider herself.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:24 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I think this woman is most likely a scumbag, but that article is stirring the pot a little with the listing of her middle school debate history.
She's the one who's still talking about it. As a Yale student.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:24 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Checking a person's ID or otherwise proving their identity is a basic element of any call an officer will respond to. I can't really think of an exception. If nothing else, it ensures accuracy in the ensuing report.

If an officer asks you for your ID, you have to give it to him?

That doesn't sound at all right. Is that allowable under the fourth amendment?
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:28 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
...
Moreover, Ms. Siyonbola fell asleep on the couch while working on a paper. I infer from that that she had books and papers lying around on the table in front of her. That should also have been a clue to both the bigot caller and the police that she belonged there.
Good point.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:35 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
She's the one who's still talking about it. As a Yale student.
The article where she mentioned it has been removed, but from the context, it doesn't seem like the way in which she was talking about that debate was in the context of personally supporting slavery.

Given the fact that the premise of her article was against Muslim head coverings, and the fact that the argument about slavery she brought up was about slaves who wished to continue being slaves, my strong guess is that she was making a comparison that slavery was wrong despite that and so are burqas. That wouldn't be an argument in favor of slavery, but the way the list in the article reads doesn't represent that.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:42 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
What if there actually was some sort of rule about not sleeping in that room? What if the hall monitor girl's beef was just as she said it was?
There isn't such a rule; but even if there had been - so then leave a complaint the next day with the dorm leader or the building manager or the housing office or whatever and let them deal with it.

Calling emergency services because somebody fell asleep in the common room. For crying out loud.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:44 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's a mixed bag. The slavery debate thing tells us nothing about her, it was an assigned position. The fact that they put it in the headline indicates that this is clickbait. The burqa thing and the anti-hate speech legislation are associated with conservatives now, but anti-hate speech thing is a classical liberal position, and the burqa thing aligns with her anti-religion, pro-women's rights stances, which are more liberal. And getting a philosophy degree after you've already gotten multiple degrees seems like someone who's pretty enamored of academia and university life, which suggests liberalism more than conservatism. So I can't tell from this what she would consider herself.
Isn't this post supposed to have a smile emoji on it? I know that you wrote it with a smile on your face and tongue in cheek, but your attempts to spin the facts still made me dizzy.

Thanks for the laugh.

BTW- I agree that her position in an assigned high school debate is irrelevant, although the more recent quote of hers does suggest a certain retained enthusiasm for the slavery-was-good-for- the-slaves, pro-slavery side.

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Old 10th May 2018, 10:49 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Well, yes. But I'm white, have a nice, middle-class accent and live in the UK. I have very, very different interactions with policeman than do black people in the US.


Again, I urge you to go back and re-read what I've written.
If it helps, I agree that your post was mis-interpreted.
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Old 10th May 2018, 10:59 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If it helps, I agree that your post was mis-interpreted.
It does. Thank you.
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Old 10th May 2018, 11:03 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Checking a person's ID or otherwise proving their identity is a basic element of any call an officer will respond to. I can't really think of an exception. If nothing else, it ensures accuracy in the ensuing report.
Unless you are black and you know there's a problem and you are standing up it to.

We've been down this discussion road many times. Show your ID and complain later is the supposed solution. But nothing changes and people want to assert their rights not to be asked for ID when they've done nothing wrong.
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Old 10th May 2018, 11:10 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What do you mean, now? Liberals have a long and storied history of racism. It's not a new development. Only amnesia about that history is new.

And no, since [sexist comment snipped], I'm not claiming that conservatives are any better. There's racists everywhere. Always have been.
Yeah right, Southern racist Dixiecrats half a century ago are so relevant to liberals today.
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Old 10th May 2018, 11:11 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Unless you are black and you know there's a problem and you are standing up it to.

We've been down this discussion road many times. Show your ID and complain later is the supposed solution. But nothing changes and people want to assert their rights not to be asked for ID when they've done nothing wrong.

You don't have a right not to be "asked" to show an ID. That's silly.
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Old 10th May 2018, 11:11 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Actually she comes off as a radical feminist atheist. We have a whole lot of those in the Republican party.
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Old 10th May 2018, 11:14 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I think you may have misinterpreted my comments. You did read the whole thing, right? And not just the bit you posted?

I'm actually offended at the level of misinterpretation required to assign me to the "blackie should know her place" shower.
I read your whole post. I didn't misinterpret it. But in the end you added an opinion about why the student was wrong to not just bend over. Sorry, not from my POV. People get tired of being harassed because they are black. You said she should have bent over, IOW ignoring the fact blacks might have a beef about that.
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