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The Trump Presidency VII

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Skeptic Ginger

Nasty Woman
Skeptic Ginger
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This thread is a continuation from here.
Posted By: Loss Leader




Trump Tweet this morning: "Maybe we should take their credentials away" in reference to negative news about him.

Donny Deustch (MSNBC pundit): Biggest worry, what is Trump with his narcissism capable of? Is he capable of starting a war over something that threatens his ego?

The people around the table agreed it was a real possibility.

And on that note and the reneging on the Iran agreement, clips were played last night of Shelden Adelson saying the US should drop a nuke on the desert, not hurt anyone (the guy's an idiot), and then tell Iran to stop their nuke program. Bolton as well is on the record promoting regime change in Iran.

My popcorn burned. :(
 
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logger said:
How about fighting a proxy war to kill Israelis? How about being the largest sponsor of terror around the world? How about subjugating women and children with their backward oppressive religion? How about hanging people publicly from cranes?
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Saudi Arabia?

logger said:
Why does this even need to be explained? Because the left has a soft spot for regimes like Iran, NK, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia and a few others.
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The left is soft on Russia?:jaw-dropp
 
The Trump media tweet:

The Fake News is working overtime. Just reported that, despite the tremendous success we are having with the economy & all things else, 91% of the Network News about me is negative (Fake). Why do we work so hard in working with the media when it is corrupt? Take away credentials?
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Negative == Fake, just like we all already knew.
 
dudalb said:
I think Trump's pulling out of the Iran deal was a horrid mistake, but your embrace of the Iranian Government and Hatred of Israeli is pretty extreme.
I don't like Bibi very much, but your putting all the blame on Isreali and ignoring Iran's long history of "Death to Israel" rhetoric is a bit much.
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My point is not that Israel is right or Iran is right. But that Iranians can make a strong case for US / US proxy aggression.

FWIW I was brought up a muslim, my implicit belief is Israel is wrong (I recognise my prejudice), my partner is Jewish (and far more left wing and anti Bibi than I am). I am very open to the idea that both sides are winding each other up. I believe that the religious element of the Iranian executive does not represent the beliefs or wants of most Iranians any more than Trumpism represents the majority of Americans.

But Israel is a nuclear power it probably has chemical weapons (it has certainly carried out limited chemical weapon attacks as per Skripals). Israel is far more of an existential threat to Iran than Iran is to Israel. Is there anyway that Iran could realistically be an existential threat to Israel? Israel could plaster the major cities of Iran with atomic bombs. Iran may have 'ballistic' missiles. but it does not have the missile defence systems Israel has, it does not have the warheads. How many bombings has Iran carried out in Israel? Israel is continually provoking Iran into reacting. I do not believe Israel carries out false flag attacks on the US (or the UK) but I do understand why the idea is prevalent and believable.

If the US really wanted to overthrow the current Iranian regime, love bombing would be far more effective. lift all the sanctions send in Disney, DC, HBO.
 
Planigale said:
FWIW I was brought up a muslim, my implicit belief is Israel is wrong (I recognise my prejudice), my partner is Jewish (and far more left wing and anti Bibi than I am). I am very open to the idea that both sides are winding each other up. I believe that the religious element of the Iranian executive does not represent the beliefs or wants of most Iranians any more than Trumpism represents the majority of Americans.
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True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.
But Israel is a nuclear power it probably has chemical weapons (it has certainly carried out limited chemical weapon attacks as per Skripals). Israel is far more of an existential threat to Iran than Iran is to Israel. Is there anyway that Iran could realistically be an existential threat to Israel? Israel could plaster the major cities of Iran with atomic bombs. Iran may have 'ballistic' missiles. but it does not have the missile defence systems Israel has, it does not have the warheads. How many bombings has Iran carried out in Israel? Israel is continually provoking Iran into reacting.
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I think the problem is that you're considering only large scale war. The risk that Israel is under is not one of all-out attack by Iran, but on a smaller scale... supplying terrorist groups (such as Hamas) that act against Israel with weapons and funding. These have caused hundreds of casualties over the years. So while in a large-scale military conflict Israel might have the advantage, the low-grade conflict that currently exists favors Iran.

If the US really wanted to overthrow the current Iranian regime, love bombing would be far more effective. lift all the sanctions send in Disney, DC, HBO.
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Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
 
Hard to believe Fake News news is telling the truth 9% of the time. Maybe that's just them getting the names right.
 
Concerning Iran, a timely reminder about the impressive expertise possessed by the Very Stable Genius:

Trump said:
I've studied this issue in great detail. I would say actually, greater by far than anybody else. Believe me. Oh believe me.
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youtube
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Trump Tweet this morning: "Maybe we should take their credentials away" in reference to negative news about him.
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I wonder if Trump is ignorant enough about the way the media work to believe taking away "credentials" would change anything.

"Credentials" are overrated. They get you in-person access to certain press briefings and that's about it. That in-person access is only a small part of news-gathering. At the White House - anyone's White House - you're going to be fed the party line. You might happen to observe something important, but what's said is often trivial.

I include some weasel-words because there will be exceptions, but press briefings are not where you'll find stories that will blow the town wide open. Taking away credentials would probably backfire. In a way I'd like to see him try it.
 
Segnosaur said:
True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.

I think the problem is that you're considering only large scale war. The risk that Israel is under is not one of all-out attack by Iran, but on a smaller scale... supplying terrorist groups (such as Hamas) that act against Israel with weapons and funding. These have caused hundreds of casualties over the years. So while in a large-scale military conflict Israel might have the advantage, the low-grade conflict that currently exists favors Iran.


Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
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This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
And IMHO the poster we are discussing seems not to like Israel very much anyway.
One of the criticisms of the Iranian deal I think has merit is that it does not deal with a lot of the crap that Iran does..like it sponsoring of Terrorist groups.
That does not make pulling out of the deal any less stupid, however.
 
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varwoche said:
Concerning Iran, a timely reminder about the impressive expertise possessed by the Very Stable Genius:

youtube
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I had to laugh when I saw that last night.
We have a freaking president who is a pathological liar. its' one thing to lie with a reason behind it..every President does that on occasion. But Trump lies for no reason whatsoever except to boost his ego.
And his whole "My gut feelings and instincts are more reliable then knowledge and expertise" is a recipe for disaster.
 
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LSSBB said:
And the other 91% is false according to whom?
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You dare to question what Dear Leader says?

The only thing scarier then Donald Trump is the blind ,total faith his folllowers have in him. It is truly scary. They would junk the Constution in a split second if Dear Leader told them to.
 
dudalb said:
I had to laugh when I saw that last night.
We have a freaking president who is a pathological liar. its' one thing to lie with a reason behind it..every President does that on occasion. But Trump lies for no reason whatsoever except to boost his ego.
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I bet he spent less time "studying" the Iran deal than he spends on his hair in a single day.
 
LSSBB said:
And the other 91% is false according to whom?
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I imagine anything concerning Michael Cohen is Fake News, as is anything concerning the Mueller enquiry which isn't about Trump calling it a witch-hunt. Real News is about how he's brought peace to the Korean Peninsula and de-nuclearised the Middle East.

(Oh, turns out the latter isn't actually policy.) :cool:
 
@dudalb :
This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
And IMHO the poster we are discussing seems not to like Israel very much anyway.
One of the criticisms of the Iranian deal I think has merit is that it does not deal with a lot of the crap that Iran does..like it sponsoring of Terrorist groups.
That does not make pulling out of the deal any less stupid, however.
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By "terroist groups" you presumably mean Hezbollah and Hamas, which many people regard as legitimate political organisations. Hamas has bad terrorist form, but then Likud used to be the Irgun so lets not get too picky. Hezbollah's great crime, of course, was to drive Israel out of Southern Lebanon - very unwelcome precedent from Israel's point of view.

Iran may not be "the good guy" but it's not the de-stabilising force in the region : that force is Gulf Arab money backing Sunni fundamentalism. In Syria they're supporting the internationally recognised government, and in Lebanon they recognise the sketchy nature of the country's government. (Of course Lebanon was built to a French design, so what do you expect.)

Real terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and Daesh don't spring from Iranian theology or Iranian influence. They spring from Israel's unlikely new partners in the Gulf (an association they may well come to regret).
 
Segnosaur said:
True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.
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Iranian politics are... complicated. There are a lot of competing interests. The key thing to recognize is that high ranking clerics and many members of the old cuard, who are significant powers, are typically not as radical as Khamene'i's Revolutionary Guard. E.g. Rouhani, who is these days fairly moderate, can probably be taken to be a pretty influential and important voice, given that he was a very early supporter of Khomeini. He's certainly not a powerless puppet.

The PTB do have to keep the populace happy, and the populace want their votes to count.
 
dudalb said:
This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
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Who is doing this? I think most are pretty aware that Iran's main interest is establishing political hegemony in their immediate surroundings.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Iranian politics are... complicated. There are a lot of competing interests. The key thing to recognize is that high ranking clerics and many members of the old cuard, who are significant powers, are typically not as radical as Khamene'i's Revolutionary Guard. E.g. Rouhani, who is these days fairly moderate, can probably be taken to be a pretty influential and important voice, given that he was a very early supporter of Khomeini. He's certainly not a powerless puppet.

The PTB do have to keep the populace happy, and the populace want their votes to count.
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TubbaBlubba said:
Who is doing this? I think most are pretty aware that Iran's main interest is establishing political hegemony in their immediate surroundings.
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It's kind of appropriate how many parallels there are between Iran and Israel.
 
Segnosaur said:
True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.

I think the problem is that you're considering only large scale war. The risk that Israel is under is not one of all-out attack by Iran, but on a smaller scale... supplying terrorist groups (such as Hamas) that act against Israel with weapons and funding. These have caused hundreds of casualties over the years. So while in a large-scale military conflict Israel might have the advantage, the low-grade conflict that currently exists favors Iran.


Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
Click to expand...

Yet in the current low grade war (which interestingly an Israeli general just admitted exists on the BBC), how many Israelis have been killed by Iranians? How many bombings have Iranian terrorists carried out in Israel, yet there have been many bombings in Iran by Israeli terrorists. Many attacks on Iranians throughout the world by Israel.

The Israeli general said that Israel did not want Syria turned into lebanon where Iran has 130,000 missiles pointing at Israel. Yet none of those missiles have been used to attack Israel. If you look at the history of Israel forces in Lebanon, the massacre of Palestinians carried out by Israeli proxies, one can understand the need for there to be a deterrent against Israeli invasion. The Israeli general said 'why does Syria need anti-aircraft missiles' (as if no Israeli aircraft had bombed Syria), 'why would Syria need anti-tank missiles' as if there are not Israeli tanks in Syria.
 
Planigale said:
Yet in the current low grade war (which interestingly an Israeli general just admitted exists on the BBC), how many Israelis have been killed by Iranians? How many bombings have Iranian terrorists carried out in Israel, yet there have been many bombings in Iran by Israeli terrorists. Many attacks on Iranians throughout the world by Israel.

The Israeli general said that Israel did not want Syria turned into lebanon where Iran has 130,000 missiles pointing at Israel. Yet none of those missiles have been used to attack Israel. If you look at the history of Israel forces in Lebanon, the massacre of Palestinians carried out by Israeli proxies, one can understand the need for there to be a deterrent against Israeli invasion. The Israeli general said 'why does Syria need anti-aircraft missiles' (as if no Israeli aircraft had bombed Syria), 'why would Syria need anti-tank missiles' as if there are not Israeli tanks in Syria.
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Yup. Ever since the Revolution, there seems to have been a kind of conspiratorial mindset toward Iran, where every paramilitary and terrorist group in the entire Middle East that has some kind of tie to radical Iranian elements is assumed to be under the direct command of the Supreme Leader.
 
“Once Mr. Brennan is confirmed, one in 10 judges sitting on the U.S. Courts of Appeals will have been hand-selected by the Trump/Pence Administration. Each of these judges will have decades to undermine – and possibly overturn – landmark decisions like Roe v. Wade and Obergefell v. Hodges. Moreover, the courts’ essential role as a safeguard against a president’s most dangerous and unconstitutional impulses will be in jeopardy. By ignoring the democratically-elected officials who oppose these nominees, President Trump and Leader McConnell reveal just how desperate they are to “win” the court before they lose at the ballot box.
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Linky.

And yes, these are lifetime appointments. And there are just as many that have been nominated and not confirmed yet as of today.

Some greatest hits:

His blog posts espoused conservative political views and expressed opposition to gay marriage, the Affordable Care Act, public financing of political campaigns, and the idea of trying terrorists in civilian courts.[13][14] Bush also compared abortion to slavery, calling the topics "the two greatest tragedies in our country."[14] When questioned about his blogging during his judicial nomination process, Bush said that "my personal views are irrelevant to the position for which I have been nominated" and that "Blogging is a political activity. It is not appropriate to bring politics to the bench."
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Bush

In October 2017, the American Bar Association's Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary, an entity which rates judicial nominees, unanimously voted to give Grasz a "not qualified" rating for the position. In a statement, the chair of the ABA's standing committee that reviews nominees said that Grasz's "temperament issues, particularly bias and lack of open-mindedness, were problematic".[6][7][8][9][10][11] Grasz was the first nominee to receive a unanimous 'not qualified' rating since 2006 and only the second nominee to since 1989 to be found unanimously not qualified.[12]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Steven_Grasz

Look at the confirmation votes, one President was almost always near unanimous, the other the exact opposite:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Donald_Trump

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Barack_Obama

Also note Obama's nominations dried up in 2015.

Confirmation of Obama’s judicial nominees slowed to a crawl after Republicans took control of the Senate in 2015. Obama White House officials blame Senate Republicans for what they characterize as an unprecedented level of obstruction in blocking the Democratic president’s court picks.
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Linky.

And before 2015, how the "nuclear option" was invoked for judges below the Supreme Court:

There are now 29 understaffed courts designated “judicial emergencies,” up from 12 when Obama took office. And those numbers don’t reflect how Senate Republicans turned even uncontroversial lower-court nominations into legislative ordeals, converting the filibuster, previously extremely rare, into a routine tool of delay, often for judges who were eventually confirmed unanimously. Only three district court nominees had ever been filibustered before Obama, but it happened to 20 of Obama’s.

In November 2013, Senate Democrats got so frustrated by the GOP’s refusal to confirm any of Obama’s nominees to the D.C. Circuit, the influential appeals court on which Garland is chief judge, that they adopted the so-called “nuclear option,” abolishing the filibuster for all judges below the Supreme Court. Going nuclear helped break the logjam for long-stalled Obama nominees, a key reason Obama’s confirmation numbers eventually caught up to Bush’s. But Democrats might regret it under the next Republican president, and the GOP is already using its control of the Senate to retaliate. In 2007-08, a Democratic Senate approved 68 Bush judges. In 2015-16, the Republican Senate has approved only 22 Obama judges, and GOP leaders have suggested they may not confirm any more.
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Linky.

And of course this is all in addition to the Supreme Court seat.
 
Segnosaur said:
Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.
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But the leaders can only resist the peoples will for so long, and things like the US breaking the deal is something that only strengthens the leaderships hold because they are right about america being out to get them and not being trustworthy.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
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The leadership sure, the general public not so much. But driving the public to increase their support for the leadership isn't exactly helping mitigate the strength of the bad actors.
 
dudalb said:
This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
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I have not seen anyone actually being supportive of the Government especially the ruling council. But how much should the country as a whole be viewed by their leadership especially when it isn't elected?

I mean sure all americans are hate filled bigoted criminals, just look at their leader. Clear and perfect reasoning. I mean who could like such a bigoted people that hate all muslims?
 
We can depend on Trump to go to great lengths not to pay for stuff. When his "charity" was shut down, that made it hard to purchase life sized images of himself, and other such self-dealing bs.

I suspect that the Cohen/Essential account is a slush fund that Trump is party to. Besides creating some distance from the dirty dealings, it serves the primary purpose of not having to pay Stormy, Cohen, et al out of his own pocket.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Who is doing this? I think most are pretty aware that Iran's main interest is establishing political hegemony in their immediate surroundings.
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I disagree. I think the religious fantacism in the Iranian Government is greater then you want to believe.
Why else explain the support for Hezbollah, which helps Iran not at all in it's political aims, and is the single biggest issue a lot of people have with Iran. Religion is the only answer.
I think this idea the Ayatollahs are getting more moderate is a pipe dream, a nice fiction people want to believe,but I see little evidence for it in Iran's actions,as compared to it's rhetoric.IMHO the more moderate tone is just for foreign consumption.
This does not mean that I do not think Trump's move was anything less then a piece of total idiocy. I supported the deal,though it was flawed,because it helped to contain Iran.
 
Planigale said:
Yet in the current low grade war (which interestingly an Israeli general just admitted exists on the BBC), how many Israelis have been killed by Iranians? How many bombings have Iranian terrorists carried out in Israel, yet there have been many bombings in Iran by Israeli terrorists. Many attacks on Iranians throughout the world by Israel.

The Israeli general said that Israel did not want Syria turned into lebanon where Iran has 130,000 missiles pointing at Israel. Yet none of those missiles have been used to attack Israel. If you look at the history of Israel forces in Lebanon, the massacre of Palestinians carried out by Israeli proxies, one can understand the need for there to be a deterrent against Israeli invasion. The Israeli general said 'why does Syria need anti-aircraft missiles' (as if no Israeli aircraft had bombed Syria), 'why would Syria need anti-tank missiles' as if there are not Israeli tanks in Syria.
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Please document those Isreali bombings in Iran.Sounds too much like standard "Jewish Conspiracy" crap to me.
 
CapelDodger said:
@dudalb :

By "terroist groups" you presumably mean Hezbollah and Hamas, which many people regard as legitimate political organisations. Hamas has bad terrorist form, but then Likud used to be the Irgun so lets not get too picky. Hezbollah's great crime, of course, was to drive Israel out of Southern Lebanon - very unwelcome precedent from Israel's point of view.

Iran may not be "the good guy" but it's not the de-stabilising force in the region : that force is Gulf Arab money backing Sunni fundamentalism. In Syria they're supporting the internationally recognised government, and in Lebanon they recognise the sketchy nature of the country's government. (Of course Lebanon was built to a French design, so what do you expect.)

Real terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and Daesh don't spring from Iranian theology or Iranian influence. They spring from Israel's unlikely new partners in the Gulf (an association they may well come to regret).
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ANother example of "I am so not apologizing for Iran" rhetoric.
And as for Hamas not being a Terrorist group:
:dl:
 
I should not be surprised;if you can sell yourself as being "Anti Impeiralist" the militant Left will forgive you anthing you do.
 
"The Resistance" has driven CNN's generic ballot poll from the Dems having a 16 point lead in February to 3 points today. Good job. Keep on resisting. Me, I would recommend the Dems returning to the traditional "loyal opposition", but I know that isn't going to happen.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
"The Resistance" has driven CNN's generic ballot poll from the Dems having a 16 point lead in February to 3 points today. Good job. Keep on resisting. Me, I would recommend the Dems returning to the traditional "loyal opposition", but I know that isn't going to happen.
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Ah like republicans under obama.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
"The Resistance" has driven CNN's generic ballot poll from the Dems having a 16 point lead in February to 3 points today. Good job. Keep on resisting. Me, I would recommend the Dems returning to the traditional "loyal opposition", but I know that isn't going to happen.
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Maybe if Trump and GOP start behaving in a traditional way instead of seeming like they are intent on turning the US into a Authoritarian One Party State the Dems would start behabing more normally.
Your blindness to why Dear Leader is scaring the hell out of us with his Authoritarian ideas, and the way the GOP is n lock step with him is truly astonighing, and leads one to believe that a dictatorship where only White Males have a meaningful role is what you really want.
And you ignore the way some conservative, like George Will and Jennifer Rubin, have turned on Trump.
And the way you don't even want to discuss the corruption in the Trump Presidency, or his racism, or the way he is didviding this country on racial lines, is also remarkable.
And I don't EVER want to hear your side call a Democrat "morally unfit" for political office again. You have totally thrown that out the window
As for the pool, it generic ballot goes up and down like a ping pong ball. Most political anylists are still predicting a bad year for the GOP.
 
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dudalb said:
I disagree. I think the religious fantacism in the Iranian Government is greater then you want to believe.
Why else explain the support for Hezbollah, which helps Iran not at all in it's political aims, and is the single biggest issue a lot of people have with Iran. Religion is the only answer.
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Not at all. Having well defined enemies and the victims of your enemies is quite useful in building popular support for a regime. Do the leaders really buy it or is it like wahhabism in saudi arabia, a useful way to fire up the support of the populace?
 
dudalb said:
Please document those Isreali bombings in Iran.Sounds too much like standard "Jewish Conspiracy" crap to me.
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From wikipedia (I'll assume you accept this as a neutral source).

In 2010, a wave of assassinations targeting Iranian nuclear scientists began. The assassinations were widely believed to be the work of Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence service. According to Iran and global media sources, the methods used to kill the scientists is reminiscent of the way Mossad had previously assassinated targets. The assassinations were alleged to be an attempt to stop Iran's nuclear program, or to ensure that it cannot recover following a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. In the first attack, particle physicist Masoud Alimohammadi was killed on 12 January 2010 when a booby-trapped motorcycle parked near his car exploded. On 12 October 2010, an explosion occurred at an IRGC military base near the city of Khorramabad, killing 18 soldiers. On 29 November 2010, two senior Iranian nuclear scientists, Majid Shahriari and Fereydoon Abbasi, were targeted by hitmen on motorcycles, who attached bombs to their cars and detonated them from a distance. Shahriari was killed, while Abbasi was severely wounded. On 23 July 2011, Darioush Rezaeinejad was shot dead in eastern Tehran. On 11 January 2012, Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan and his driver were killed by a bomb attached to their car from a motorcycle.
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BrooklynBaby said:
"The Resistance" has driven CNN's generic ballot poll from the Dems having a 16 point lead in February to 3 points today. Good job. Keep on resisting. Me, I would recommend the Dems returning to the traditional "loyal opposition", but I know that isn't going to happen.
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Seems loyal to me.
 
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