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Old 12th May 2018, 02:05 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
The guys against torture, something we didn't even stoop to in WW2,
I dont think you can prove that, especially put up against the limited ways we’ve done it to islamists. Besides in WW2 we just shot them.
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oh but Islamic radical terrorism is soooo much scarier than Nazis. The right has their ultimate boogyman don't they? What else makes McCain a RINO? Campaign finance reform is all I can come up with.
Ahh, I’m happy to inform you John Brennan was right there holding the bottle of water.

The dems are once again having double standards because they are frauds.
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Old 12th May 2018, 02:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

Just that sentence itself should make it clear that logger is engaging in some equivocation here, and that by "the military" Clinton is talking about the military-industrial complex, rather than the people who serve in the military. Reading the entire letter should confirm that, as he speaks of the respect he has for the colonel to whom he is writing, and talks extensively about the misuse of the military for political purposes.
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Ah, then you didn't actually read the letter you referred to. I don't know why I would have expected you to have.
was referring to your post. I don’t why I expected you to see that.
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Old 12th May 2018, 02:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A bit of critical thinking would show you that they arenít slurring his war record, well some anyway. Most are slurring his obvious disgusting rino status.
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It was Trump who said he wasn't a war hero because he got captured.
You didnít understand the bold?
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Old 12th May 2018, 02:25 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
was referring to your post. I donít why I expected you to see that.
Yes, I know you were. My post was about the letter. Which you obviously haven't read.
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Old 12th May 2018, 02:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You didnít understand the bold?
Oh, no I did. I was just pointing out that your hero was the one who disparaged him for being a POW. And the crowd lapped it up.

You're happy to make claims about "the left" spitting on POWs, but when pushed the best you can come up with is some quotes from people criticising the military as an institution, or speaking about specific groups of soldiers who acted unethically - not even a single quote disparaging POWs, let alone any instance of them being spat on. However, you're notably silent on Trump himself mocking a POW for being a POW in order to get a cheap pop from the crowd.

I have provided the one example so far in this thread of a POW being mistreated by someone. And it's not "the left" doing so.

Perhaps you should provide some evidence of your claim?

Oh, and if saying that "some" aren't slurring McCain for his war record counts to exonerate all of "the right", then can I just say that "some" of "the left" aren't spitting on POWs and that will make it all okay? Or is this another instance of you just typing random nonsense without actually thinking about what you're saying?
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Old 12th May 2018, 02:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The lefts contempt for our military is as common as their wanting to tax and spend.
This is what governments are for.

The right's real problem with McCain is that he supports comprehensive immigration reform - the sort that doesn't begin with "round them all up." He hosed any chance of being elected president by alienating the nasty racist wing of the Republican Party. Which, in light of developments, can simply be called "The Republican Party."
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Old 12th May 2018, 04:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You post one person in the face of hundreds of negative leftist comments against our military and I have no idea what Iím writing.
One is all that was needed to prove you wrong. Of course, I can name many more, since I actually served and actually know something about the military. Others I could name would include Tammy Duckworth and John McCain.

Since you decided McCain is a RINO then you don't get to claim him as a conservative.

By making claims about the left being against the military that are easily disproved, you have destroyed the credibility you think you had about about the military or history. You don't have an argument. You just have a collection of intellectually bankrupt rehtoric that fails even the simplest examination.
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Old 12th May 2018, 04:52 PM   #48
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I think everyone is missing the point.

Even if the Left did, entirely, hate the military to the point of spitting on soldiers it still would not explain why the right (supposedly the ones that love soldiers) would be okay with Trump insulting McCain.
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Old 12th May 2018, 04:54 PM   #49
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Nothing new. McCain is made fun of, Franken had to resign. Trump grabs pussy. All part of the plan. The Lord works in mysterious ways!
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Old 12th May 2018, 05:30 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I think everyone is missing the point.

Even if the Left did, entirely, hate the military to the point of spitting on soldiers it still would not explain why the right (supposedly the ones that love soldiers) would be okay with Trump insulting McCain.
Because when Trump does something like that he's "fighting back", and so should be admired.

Trump mocking McCain for having been tortured for 5.5 years? Fighting back. Good guy. Michelle Wolf saying that Sarah Sanders wears eyeshadow? Reprehensible. Shouldn't be allowed.

It's perfectly simple.
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Old 12th May 2018, 05:40 PM   #51
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It's not liberals claiming McCain caused the Forrestal fire, either.
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Old 12th May 2018, 05:59 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I think everyone is missing the point.

Even if the Left did, entirely, hate the military to the point of spitting on soldiers it still would not explain why the right (supposedly the ones that love soldiers) would be okay with Trump insulting McCain.
I can easily explain it. McCain is a disgusting rino, one who stabs his party of the back for the sake of compromise. His military career is long and great, his politics, not so much. On top of that much of his back stabbing seems to be vengeance, Trump picks up on that and throws it back in his face.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Because when Trump does something like that he's "fighting back", and so should be admired.

Trump mocking McCain for having been tortured for 5.5 years? Fighting back. Good guy. Michelle Wolf saying that Sarah Sanders wears eyeshadow? Reprehensible. Shouldn't be allowed.

It's perfectly simple.
Youíre conveniently forgetting what was done to Sarah Palin and her own children. Of course the contemptible McCain has even thrown her under the bus after she went to bat for him.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
One is all that was needed to prove you wrong. Of course, I can name many more, since I actually served and actually know something about the military. Others I could name would include Tammy Duckworth and John McCain.

Since you decided McCain is a RINO then you don't get to claim him as a conservative.

By making claims about the left being against the military that are easily disproved, you have destroyed the credibility you think you had about about the military or history. You don't have an argument. You just have a collection of intellectually bankrupt rehtoric that fails even the simplest examination.
Iíve posted quote after quote of leftist hating our military. Youíre clearly in denial if you think otherwise. I have the proof of history on my side as you list few people to prove me wrong. Thatís is some heavy duty denial Doubt, accept and embrace what the left truly thinks about our military.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:09 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
This is what governments are for.

The right's real problem with McCain is that he supports comprehensive immigration reform - the sort that doesn't begin with "round them all up." He hosed any chance of being elected president by alienating the nasty racist wing of the Republican Party. Which, in light of developments, can simply be called "The Republican Party."
We were all in for McCain, he lost because like Hillary, he was a terrible candidate.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Iíve posted quote after quote of leftist hating our military. Youíre clearly in denial if you think otherwise. I have the proof of history on my side as you list few people to prove me wrong. Thatís is some heavy duty denial Doubt, accept and embrace what the left truly thinks about our military.
You make absolutist claims. Those only need one example to be proven wrong. You failed.

So no, history is not on your side.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:19 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Iíve posted quote after quote of leftist hating our military. Youíre clearly in denial if you think otherwise. I have the proof of history on my side as you list few people to prove me wrong. Thatís is some heavy duty denial Doubt, accept and embrace what the left truly thinks about our military.
Who said, "You think our country's so innocent?"? LOL
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I can easily explain it. McCain is a disgusting rino, one who stabs his party of the back for the sake of compromise.
Because putting country before party is such a bad thing?

Besides, what incident are you talking about?

ETA:

Originally Posted by logger View Post
We were all in for McCain, he lost because like Hillary, he was a terrible candidate.
He was not as impressive as Obama, true. But from my part of the country the right was certainly not "all in" on McCain. His stance on immigration won him my respect but alienated a lot of Republicans.

Last edited by Minoosh; 12th May 2018 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:35 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
You make absolutist claims. Those only need one example to be proven wrong. You failed.

So no, history is not on your side.
Because liberals are known to be tax and spenders, because liberals are known to love abortion. That does not mean when you find a few that are fiscally responsible or pro life, that changes the true nature of a leftist. So no I havenít failed, your argument is silly.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:38 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Because putting country before party is such a bad thing?
Lol
That wouldnít include compromising with the loser left.
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Besides, what incident are you talking about?
Having open borders, itís already been mentioned.
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Old 12th May 2018, 06:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Having open borders, itís already been mentioned.
You mean having a stance on immigration that didn't begin with "round them all up." Which makes me wonder how you could have been "all in" in 2008 - for a "disgusting rino."
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:02 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Iíve posted quote after quote of leftist hating our military. Youíre clearly in denial if you think otherwise. I have the proof of history on my side as you list few people to prove me wrong. Thatís is some heavy duty denial Doubt, accept and embrace what the left truly thinks about our military.
You make absolutist claims. Those only need one example to be proven wrong. You failed.

So no, history is not on your side.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:05 PM   #63
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"liberals are known to be tax and spenders"

What language is this? Because it certainly isn't English. Russian bot confirmed?

Last edited by Lambchops; 12th May 2018 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:08 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
"liberals are known to be tax and spenders"

What language is this? Because it certainly isn't English.
I learned a new word for this recently, duckspeak. It's out of Orwell's 1984.

Thoughtless or formulaic speech.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
You mean having a stance on immigration that didn't begin with "round them all up." Which makes me wonder how you could have been "all in" in 2008 - for a "disgusting rino."
Beginning with ďround them all upĒ might be where you went off the rails.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:28 PM   #66
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Back to the offensive remark about McCain's voice being unimportant because he'll be soon dead...

Any staffer in any other administration would have been out on their ear so fast...

The fact that thoughless, cruel inhumanity seeps and infests from the very top in this current White House is why it would be hypocritical to cast off an underling for such a vile remark. Until the heat brought down becomes to great to ignore. Otherwise, sliminess carries no stigma.

This serves as just one more example of the corrosive degradation that can pervade an organization when the head is lacking morality. Trump not only fails to inspire good; his is a withering touch that wilts, bringing out the worst in so many who stray too close to this enfant terrible.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:29 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I learned a new word for this recently, duckspeak. It's out of Orwell's 1984.

Thoughtless or formulaic speech.
Yep, that looks about right.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:30 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
You make absolutist claims. Those only need one example to be proven wrong. You failed.

So no, history is not on your side.
Iím sure in your reality itís an absolutist claim and that history isnít on my side. Iím fine with giving the victory to you in your reality.
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Old 12th May 2018, 07:36 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
"liberals are known to be tax and spenders"

What language is this? Because it certainly isn't English. Russian bot confirmed?
He forgot the hyphens: "tax-and-spenders"; people who do something called "tax-&-spend". It's a phrase conservatives used to describe liberals a couple of decades ago, back when most conservatives were actually conservatives. On its own, it might not sound like much of an attack, because it's obvious that a government needs to spend money to govern, and it must tax to get that money. But what was meant by the use of the phrase was that it's an always-increasing feedback loop with liberals: make lofty promises that require more spending, increase taxes to fund it, then say it's still not enough and go back to making even loftier promises that require even bigger increases in spending with even bigger tax hikes, then use that as the starting point for even more, and so on.

They mostly dropped it years ago, not just because it was just so long ago and no slogan lasts forever, but also partly because, as slogans go, it too easily invited quippy parody responses based on Republicans' habit of increasing spending just as much or more than Democrats but without the taxation to support it... and because there are practically no actual conservatives left on that side of politics anymore anyway.
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Old 12th May 2018, 08:26 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Beginning with ďround them all upĒ might be where you went off the rails.
Why were you "all in" for a "disgusting rino" in 2008?
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Old 12th May 2018, 08:38 PM   #71
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The shrill "tax and spend" tripe is a hoot these days. Which is more responsible? Tax to afford the spending? Or not tax and spend anyway? The former keeps deficits under control, and can even derive a surplus. The latter gives us record deficits like we face now.

For some time the Dems have been more the watchful household budgeter, making sure the credit card bills are paid first. The Repubs have been more the credit abuser, buying new toys every paycheck while the interest on old purchases keeps racking up.

It's so utterly basic it shouldn't require stating.

What gets my goat is that the Rs bamboozle their flock into thinking they can have their cake and eat it too. Then when the crap hits the fan the Ds are left to fix the mess, unfairly having attached to them the stigma derived from the ignorant association of causality brought on by mere concurrence. And of course pounced and pounded upon by the lying mess-makers.
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Old 12th May 2018, 09:42 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
When discussing the lefts contempt for our military, most donít need proof. Itís something people just experience. But it is satisfying to see John McCain as the new hero of the left. But he would still be considered a war monger by the left, correct?


Democrats do not hate war. We just hate unnecessary war. Republicans like war either way, it does not matter if it is necessary.

The Democrat viewpoint in that situation is honorable and good. The Republican viewpoint is dishonorable and evil.

Democrats can love John McCain as a war hero and for his sacrifice, yet disagree with his politics.

Republicans cannot. As soon as they disagree with his politics they go full on evil with opposite propaganda regarding the reality of his time serving and his time captive.
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Old 12th May 2018, 10:02 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Iíve posted quote after quote of leftist hating our military. Youíre clearly in denial if you think otherwise. I have the proof of history on my side as you list few people to prove me wrong. Thatís is some heavy duty denial Doubt, accept and embrace what the left truly thinks about our military.
You're mistaking alt-dot-history for History. Other posters have posted numerous comments from the right, notably that worthless lump of protoplasm in the White House, disparaging and criticizing the military. The farkin' red-white-and-blue wing of the GOP had to remind the dunce to put some flags out there during the convention.

The thin-skinned zero-sum narcissist has his troops rallying behind him. Coincidence that this is in the week after McCain said he wouldn't have Trump at his funeral? Not in the least. They know that he's a petty child and rallying around Donnie is the best way to assure you have a paycheck for another month, so they will abase themselves and the Executive branch.... picking on a dying guy? To what end? A moment of Get Even?

What a bunch of petty cretins. And your defense of them? "Oh, yeah??!! Well lefties hate the military!" Yeah, like that noted lefty, Franklin Delano Roosevelt (just uttering the name gets paleos a-twitching, amiright). Or those noted lefties JFK and LBJ? The RINO, Nixon? Dems know how to wage some wars, man!

Just as hating the occupant of the White House does not mean one hates the USA or the American people, distrusting or hating the Pentagon and DoD does not mean one hates the soldiers.
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Old 12th May 2018, 10:56 PM   #74
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The Myth of the Spitting Antiwar Protester (NYT, Oct. 13, 2017)

Here’s instead a photo of a man spitting at Syrian refugees and yelling ’Go home, Muslim scum.’

Still, I don't see how so many can view participation in the Vietnam War as heroic. I am aware that a lot of U.S. soldiers in Vietnam didn't want to be there, but the only American heroes I see are the GIs who tried to put a stop to the war:

Quote:
“I wanted to cover all the types of resistance, so we include GIs who refused to deploy and went to jail, we have those who went to Vietnam but refused to go into combat, or went into combat and then stopped fighting, we have soldiers who led marches for peace in the US and elsewhere, and we have people who deserted and went into exile.”
Why American soldiers were on front lines of anti-Vietnam-war movement (Post Magazine, Apr. 7, 2018)

They were the heroes, McCain wasn't.
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Old 12th May 2018, 11:32 PM   #75
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I'll say that that was a nice dodge by logger.

reminds me of people who try to handwave Dolt 45's obvious white supremacism by yapping about Kanye West, or Robert Byrd, or whoever.
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Old 12th May 2018, 11:59 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Coincidence that this is in the week after McCain said he wouldn't have Trump at his funeral? Not in the least.
McCain also apparently hurt Sarah Palin's feelings by saying (reportedly, in an upcoming book) that he regrets not choosing Joe Lieberman for his running mate in 2008. That's throwing Palin "under the bus" somehow and apparently the right takes that personally.

Sometimes I think that McCain's eventual passing will energize moderate-ish Republicans in the Senate who will recognize that the party has lost an important voice. The contrast between his relative integrity and Trump's utter lack of it is bound to affect his close friends such as Lindsey Graham. But at present those senators seem to think humoring Trump is good for the country, and for their own electoral chances. It's not a good course; conservatives can get everything they want without sticking up for a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:28 AM   #77
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I can't believe you lot got so easily derailed by a "What about Clinton".....
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:47 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Youíre conveniently forgetting what was done to Sarah Palin and her own children. Of course the contemptible McCain has even thrown her under the bus after she went to bat for him.
Look over there! A squirrel!
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:48 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I can easily explain it. McCain is a disgusting rino, one who stabs his party of the back for the sake of compromise.
I love how "compromise" is being treated as a dirty word.
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:50 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
We were all in for McCain, he lost because like Hillary, he was a terrible candidate.
Why were you "all in" for him if he was a terrible candidate?
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