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Old 14th May 2018, 09:07 AM   #1
Skeptic Ginger
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DeVos ends investigations into price-gouging private universities

NYT: For-profit college fraud investigations scaled back under Betsy DeVos
Quote:
An investigation into DeVry University, now known as Adtalem Global Education, "ground to a halt early last year," and later, over the summer, DeVos picked Julian Schmoke, a former dean at the school, to be the team's supervisor, the Times reported.
Meanwhile, probes into for-profit education companies Bridgepoint Education and Career Education Corp. also "went dark," the newspaper said. The Times reported that former employees of those institutions are working for DeVos as well, including Robert S. Eitel, a former Bridgepoint attorney who is now her senior counselor, and Diane Auer Jones, a former Career Education employee who is now a senior postsecondary education adviser at the department. The department's recently confirmed general counsel, Carlos G. MuŮiz, provided consulting services to Career Education, the newspaper said.
Taking the cue from how Trump staffed departments like the EPA, DeVos has hired the people previously thought to be conning students, charging high tuition paid for with loans, by false claims of employment prospects after graduation that weren't forthcoming.
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Old 14th May 2018, 02:54 PM   #2
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Oh, I am so surprised! I must be getting the vaporrrs!!
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:16 PM   #3
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:21 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
NYT: For-profit college fraud investigations scaled back under Betsy DeVosTaking the cue from how Trump staffed departments like the EPA, DeVos has hired the people previously thought to be conning students, charging high tuition paid for with loans, by false claims of employment prospects after graduation that weren't forthcoming.
After Trump U the DOE wouldn't want to be hypocritical or playing favorites, they are for all fraudulent colleges.

This is what real americans want, pay day loans and fraudulent colleges. What else would they expect from Trump?
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:51 AM   #5
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As a pinko leftist crypto-marxist, I hope that all the malicious actions of all these rich Trump cronies raises some class consciousness in this country. People often conflate wealth as some evidence of virtue and competency. I hope the actions of DeVos, Carson, and the entire Trump clan puts that myth to bed.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:55 AM   #6
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
"After careful analysis, we have concluded that the security protocols in place at the hen house are more than adequate." -- the foxes
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.
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Old 15th May 2018, 12:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual.
Wouldn't business as usual be continuing with the status quo levels of investigations and the like? Not cutting back on investigating them?

I mean sure the massive levels of fraud in things like charter schools are never a reason to restrict them, compared to miniscule levels of drug use in people in need of support.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.
Well that's just about the biggest load of ******** I've ever personally read. Am I understanding you correctly when you're saying Trump isn't a **** president, "the left" is just making it look like that because Hillary didn't win? That's one of the worst arguments ever.

Outside of being completely unsubstantiated, it goes against logic and reason.

Nice defense of Trump though, I give it a B. You didn't worship him enough, but blaming the left repeatedly pulled you above the C+ mark.

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Old 15th May 2018, 02:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.
Is that quoted directly from the Trump Apologistís Guide for Making Terrible Arguments, or did you paraphrase?

And while weíre all basking in the warm glow of theprestigeís assurances that the massive corruption and cronyism of the Trump administration doesnít matter, donít ever forget where the real danger lies:

Kneeling football players
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Think about it a little more, and you might not find it funny at all. They aren't doing enough to make the world a better place, and they're doing too much to make the world a worse place. The mix of criticism rightly expresses this sad situation.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.

You seem to be suggesting that the Trump administration is just the same as the administrations preceding it. No more riddled with corruption and cronyism, no less.

What a crock of cow flops.
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Old 15th May 2018, 03:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wouldn't business as usual be continuing with the status quo levels of investigations and the like? Not cutting back on investigating them?

I mean sure the massive levels of fraud in things like charter schools are never a reason to restrict them, compared to miniscule levels of drug use in people in need of support.
Whoosh.
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:29 PM   #13
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And anyone who voted for Dolt 45, I encourage you to enroll in one of these scamsfine institutions.
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And anyone who voted for Dolt 45, I encourage you to enroll in one of these scamsfine institutions.
I hear they promise guaranteed 6 figure jobs when you graduate.
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Old 15th May 2018, 05:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.
Looks like someone's got ocean madness.
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Old 15th May 2018, 07:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given the state of lobbying in Washington, D.C., this sounds entirely like business as usual. Trump may not be draining the swamp, but it was like that when he got there, and not fulfilling campaign promises is also business as usual. Almost all the complaints about Trump are really just partisan special pleading, which is also business as usual. It's been ratcheted up to 11, which I attribute mostly to grief over the realization that Hillary Clinton will never be president. In the visual arts, an object is defined not only by its own form, but also importantly by the form of the negative space around it. I think the widespread and over-the-top animus towards Trump can only be fully understood in the context of the Trump-Hillary electoral contest. It's just as much about her as it is about him.
Wow, at first I thought Cain wrote this.
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Old 15th May 2018, 07:40 PM   #17
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Trump looks to have filled that hen house with foxes from the EPA to the Department of Education.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wouldn't business as usual be continuing with the status quo levels of investigations and the like? Not cutting back on investigating them?
No. The foxes guarding the henhouse is status quo.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Am I understanding you correctly when you're saying Trump isn't a **** president, "the left" is just making it look like that because Hillary didn't win?
Since I'm not saying that, I guess the answer would be "no, you're not understanding me correctly."

What I'm saying is that all presidents are **** presidents, and that most of the complaints about Trump are actually special pleading. Like TragicMonkey's foxes guarding the henhouse. As if lobbying, cronyism, and regulatory capture were invented by Donald Trump.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No. The foxes guarding the henhouse is status quo.
Regardless of whether it's the status quo or not, shouldn't bad policies be criticised? If we can put pressure on politicians, from either side, when they make bad decisions, maybe we can limit those bad decisions and the status quo can be shifted to a more efficient point for everyone.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:47 AM   #21
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“I have decided to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence. Now I simply concede the point. They are right. We do expect something in return."
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https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...tion-secretary
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Regardless of whether it's the status quo or not, shouldn't bad policies be criticised? If we can put pressure on politicians, from either side, when they make bad decisions, maybe we can limit those bad decisions and the status quo can be shifted to a more efficient point for everyone.
Oh, totally. I just don't consider 'foxes guarding the henhouse' to be much of a criticism.
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
ďI have decided to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence. Now I simply concede the point. They are right. We do expect something in return."
Betsy DeVos

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...tion-secretary
It's actually an interesting point, when read in context.
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's actually an interesting point, when read in context.
That she expects money to overcome democracy?

It's a tremendously accurate point when read in context. She expects to be able to buy policy, she states as much. That is, she thinks that her money should have more power to shape US policy than the votes of a quarter of a billion of 'the people'.

One man, one vote? My eye.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:02 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
That she expects money to overcome democracy?

It's a tremendously accurate point when read in context. She expects to be able to buy policy, she states as much. That is, she thinks that her money should have more power to shape US policy than the votes of a quarter of a billion of 'the people'.

One man, one vote? My eye.
She clearly feels she is doing Gods work when she promotes the interest of the wealthy and undermines Science and Education so of course itís something she is more then happy to own. IMO her point is far less interesting than whoís included to agree with it.
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Whoosh.
Nike fan I must assume........... But you misspelled swoosh.......



and speaking of going over heads...................
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
That she expects money to overcome democracy?

It's a tremendously accurate point when read in context. She expects to be able to buy policy, she states as much. That is, she thinks that her money should have more power to shape US policy than the votes of a quarter of a billion of 'the people'.

One man, one vote? My eye.
The government uses money to buy policy all the time.
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:24 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The government uses money to buy policy all the time.
Which is corruption, and should be stopped, not encouraged with every single appointment.
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Old 16th May 2018, 01:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Which is corruption, and should be stopped, not encouraged with every single appointment.
No. Corruption is when a politician uses their influence improperly for personal gain.

Consider tax subsidies. They are literally buying policy with money. They are absolutely supposed to yield a return on investment. But they are not - in principle - corruption.
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Old 16th May 2018, 01:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Since I'm not saying that, I guess the answer would be "no, you're not understanding me correctly."

What I'm saying is that all presidents are **** presidents, and that most of the complaints about Trump are actually special pleading. Like TragicMonkey's foxes guarding the henhouse. As if lobbying, cronyism, and regulatory capture were invented by Donald Trump.
Other recent Presidents have gone out of their way to **** on the planet's environment? Purposefully undone every possible thing the previous administration has done? Had several investigations for corruption into multiple different agencies in the first year (EPA, Carson at HUD, Trump himself, all of his family, and most advisers) of their presidency? Apologized for racists, and attacked the media based on nothing?

Oooohhh, by special pleading you meant, "Accurately portrayed one of the worst Presidents in the last 30 years"! That makes way more sense.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No. The foxes guarding the henhouse is status quo.
Er, if that were the case, then there would be no investigations to stop.

Think, man. Obviously, the previous admin was investigating the behavior of for-profit universities. The current admin is not. This is not, therefore, the status quo. Duh.
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Old 17th May 2018, 04:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The government uses money to buy policy all the time.
Oh, well, that makes it all right then.

I'll kill people, you kill people, we'll just trade off, shall we, it all balances out?

Maybe you could address the point that you chose to highlight? Rather than a completely different point that has no bearing on the conversation?
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Old 17th May 2018, 08:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Oh, well, that makes it all right then.
Kind of, yeah.

Quote:
I'll kill people, you kill people, we'll just trade off, shall we, it all balances out?
What part of private citizens killing people is analogous to the government using tax subsidies and other financial incentives to influence policy?

Quote:
Maybe you could address the point that you chose to highlight? Rather than a completely different point that has no bearing on the conversation?
As far as I can tell, everything we're talking about is relevant to the conversation. Almost by definition. Your complaint makes no sense to me. Can you at least tell me what point you think I should be focusing on?

Even better: If you want to talk about a different point, just talk about it. Nothing I'm doing prevents you from taking your conversation in any direction you want.
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Old 17th May 2018, 08:56 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
government using tax subsidies and other financial incentives to influence policy?
I have no idea what this means, can you give some examples? Typically, the relationship is the other way, government has policies and uses incentives as a mechanism to implement those polices.

There are cases where the federal government gives state governments incentives to implement certain polices, or state governments give local governments incentives to implement policies, but Iím not sure what you object to with this.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:23 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I have no idea what this means, can you give some examples? Typically, the relationship is the other way, government has policies and uses incentives as a mechanism to implement those polices. .
And De Vos's statement quoted above was referring to that - her efforts as a private citizen to buy influence. It was not referring to her work as Sec of Education. As Sec of Ed, she doesn't have to buy influence, she is in position to make policy directly and have others follow it.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:25 AM   #36
theprestige
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I have no idea what this means, can you give some examples? Typically, the relationship is the other way, government has policies and uses incentives as a mechanism to implement those polices.

There are cases where the federal government gives state governments incentives to implement certain polices, or state governments give local governments incentives to implement policies, but Iím not sure what you object to with this.
The point is that I don't object to this, and I don't understand the objection being raised.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:26 AM   #37
3point14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As far as I can tell, everything we're talking about is relevant to the conversation.
No, it's not. I was talking about DeVos. You interjected yourself in the conversation only to change the subject. Don't do that.

Would you like to talk about Betsy DeVos?
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:45 AM   #38
lomiller
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The point is that I don't object to this, and I don't understand the objection being raised.
Iím trying to understand your claim that government uses money to influence policy. This doesnít make sense because governments have policies and sets policies. When/where does it need to use money to influence what polices are set?
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:52 AM   #39
3point14
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Iím trying to understand your claim that government uses money to influence policy. This doesnít make sense because governments have policies and sets policies. When/where does it need to use money to influence what polices are set?
It's a smokescreen. A blank statement without evidence to draw attention away from the topic in hand so we're all talking about whether or not the government do whatever it is that the unevidenced claim states.

Meanwhile we're not talking about the unequivocal statement made by this woman that she believes her money should have more power to set public policy than does the US democratic system.

It's amazing how often it works.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:01 AM   #40
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Iím trying to understand your claim that government uses money to influence policy. This doesnít make sense because governments have policies and sets policies. When/where does it need to use money to influence what polices are set?
He saw the comment for DeVos and assumed it was recent. As I noted above, it was her statement from before she was Sec of Ed. As you note, it makes no sense in the context of her being in the government.
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