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Old 27th May 2018, 12:06 PM   #1
Andy_Ross
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Scam alert. In Home I.V. Rehydration service, from $200 dollars. Are they mad?

https://www.theivdoc.com/

the I.V. Doc will come to your home and stick some salty water in you for as little as $199 and up to $449 dollars a pop.


Quote:
When you're sick, distressed, dehydrated, or just exhausted…the last thing you want is to travel to a medical office, endure long waits and expose yourself to infections.

We come to you. Through Telehealth, a licensed physician or medical provider will consult with you prior to your treatment. Then, one of our network's highly trained medical professionals (from registered nurses to physicians) will hook you up to an I.V. specially formulated to relieve the condition you're suffering from, or deliver the wellness treatment you desire.

The I.V. Doc's service is prompt (rush available), affordable and most of all lets you relax and recuperate in the comfort of your home, private office or hotel room.
What a scam!
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Old 27th May 2018, 12:09 PM   #2
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Can they do coffee? More or less than Starbucks?

Oh... when I read "specially formulated...", I figured different ingredients. But perhaps they mean different concentrations of saline (only)? Yeah, not as good as coffee.

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Old 27th May 2018, 12:37 PM   #3
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So a modern variation on blood letting, blood diluting.
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Old 27th May 2018, 12:57 PM   #4
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I don't see the scam, to be honest.
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:14 PM   #5
Andy_Ross
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't see the scam, to be honest.
Over $400 to pump some salty water in to you as a cure for whatever?

You don't see the scam?



Can I interest you in my salty water service, only $100?
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:32 PM   #6
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If they provide the service advertised, it's not a scam.

It's similar to "drink 8 bottles of water a day, it's good for you!" Not technically a scam, just profiting off people's fears.

ETA: Unless you have a chemical imbalance in your system, most doctors I have talked to say "drink when you're thirsty."
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:48 PM   #7
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Will they deliver ethanol remedies, 80 proof? For medicinal purposes only, of course.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Will they deliver ethanol remedies, 80 proof? For medicinal purposes only, of course.
I saw Doc Martin doing that once. For methanol poisoning.
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:05 PM   #9
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I am not a doctor, but it seems to me that if you are in your home and dehydrated, you should drink water (or in some circumstances, water with electrolytes, i.e. a sports drink).

If for some reason you can't do that (for instance, you can't swallow the water or you can't keep it down), then you should be evaluated in a hospital.

(There are uses for IV at home, such as when someone is under ongoing treatment with an IV medication, or cannot take fluids normally for some already known reason, but doesn't otherwise need hospitalization.)

I looked at the Home IV web site. It looks like their use case is business travelers with hangovers. Their slogan should be "When putting some Alka Seltzer in some water and drinking it yourself is too much effort."
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:47 PM   #10
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A bit over a year ago, I woke up with a severe belly ache. I've had them before; in fact had been to the Emergency Room a couple of times. They never figured out what the problem was.
This time, the first thing the ER at my new small-town hospital did was start an IV. The previous ER's didn't do that. They also realized I was in Atrial Fibulation. They wound up giving me two full liters of IV saline, among other things. I got better. I'm reasonably certain that underlying problem was dehydration. And a bit of panic.
So, do I need to have someone come in and give me IV's periodically? No. I need to drink more dang DiHydrogenMonoxide! As I've been doing ever since.
The only IV I've had since then was six days ago, so they could knock me out while a guy stuck a camera up my backside.
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The only IV I've had since then was six days ago, so they could knock me out while a guy stuck a camera up my backside.
But was this done in the comfort of your own home?
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:41 PM   #12
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Running some amount of something directly into a person's veins without supervision? That's, like, Michael Jackson-level nonsense.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:30 AM   #13
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It's pretty common for fighters making weight to rehydrate with an I.V. before the fight. I don't know how much that usually costs.

It's against the rules now though, at least in the UFC. I think the justification being that the way they test for blood doping is to test for I.V. use, so in order to be able to do that test they had to ban I.V. use before a fight.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:06 AM   #14
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Risk-benefit analysis?

IVs are not risk-free, and those done in a “home setting” likely riskier than at a clinic or hospital. So something goes wrong, who you gonna sue?
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The only IV I've had since then was six days ago, so they could knock me out while a guy stuck a camera up my backside.
Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
But was this done in the comfort of your own home?
or a seedy motel just off the freeway ramp, where rooms are booked by the hour?



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Old 28th May 2018, 09:24 AM   #16
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Hangover treatment for rich people.
We used to have this in our city called the "Hangover Bus" cost $100 per pop.
The city shut it down as no registered physician was on staff or on site.
I believe Las Vegas still has a bus.

Looks like they just changed their marketing verbiage and are no longer promoting the 'hangover cure' and are just doing 'hydration services.'

Good on em' if they can make a buck and no one dies in the process...as silly as it sounds. For people with more money than sense.
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:30 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The only IV I've had since then was six days ago, so they could knock me out while a guy stuck a camera up my backside.
We don't need details regarding your kinky sex life.
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:35 PM   #18
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Best hangover cure is a quick snifter from a decompression nitrox bottle.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:03 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Risk-benefit analysis?

IVs are not risk-free, and those done in a “home setting” likely riskier than at a clinic or hospital. So something goes wrong, who you gonna sue?
Ghostbusters!!!!!
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
A bit over a year ago, I woke up with a severe belly ache. I've had them before; in fact had been to the Emergency Room a couple of times. They never figured out what the problem was.
This time, the first thing the ER at my new small-town hospital did was start an IV. The previous ER's didn't do that. They also realized I was in Atrial Fibulation. They wound up giving me two full liters of IV saline, among other things. I got better. I'm reasonably certain that underlying problem was dehydration. And a bit of panic.
So, do I need to have someone come in and give me IV's periodically? No. I need to drink more dang DiHydrogenMonoxide! As I've been doing ever since.
The only IV I've had since then was six days ago, so they could knock me out while a guy stuck a camera up my backside.
Hopefully they found nothing for you to be concerned about!!!!!
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:43 PM   #21
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I can think of a lot of situations where, in retrospect, at home-IV fluids would make sense. But if you're sick enough to not be able to hydrate normally, you probably need to be checked out by a doctor anyway. I got salmonella decades ago and all I really needed was fluids, but before it was diagnosed they had to make sure it wasn't appendicitis or something. Plus it facilitated a few doses of IV Demerol

For some reason the doctor never told me they'd found salmonella in my stool. I didn't find out until months later when a doctor covering for him happened to mention it when I was in for an office visit on an unrelated issue.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Hopefully they found nothing for you to be concerned about!!!!!
Less than last year, so I get to wait three years now.
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Old 28th May 2018, 06:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
https://www.theivdoc.com/

the I.V. Doc will come to your home and stick some salty water in you for as little as $199 and up to $449 dollars a pop.

What a scam!
They also have a way around my adblock, the site throws up one ad after another. I'd be leery of that site, could have malware.

I also think if true someone might have a case for malpractice given IVs are regulated in a way that oral supplements are not.
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Old 28th May 2018, 06:39 PM   #24
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I wish rehydration would fix a hangover.
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Old 28th May 2018, 08:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I wish rehydration would fix a hangover.
Re-ethanolization helps.
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I can think of a lot of situations where, in retrospect, at home-IV fluids would make sense. But if you're sick enough to not be able to hydrate normally, you probably need to be checked out by a doctor anyway. I got salmonella decades ago and all I really needed was fluids, but before it was diagnosed they had to make sure it wasn't appendicitis or something. Plus it facilitated a few doses of IV Demerol

For some reason the doctor never told me they'd found salmonella in my stool. I didn't find out until months later when a doctor covering for him happened to mention it when I was in for an office visit on an unrelated issue.
Now if I.V. Doc were to start offering this ...
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:35 AM   #27
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If this were just a mobile hydration thing, well no big deal, really. Not really a scam. I also think that there is some value in such a service for (rich) people that suffer from migranes or other minor maladies when they are away from home and don't want to hassle with an ER when they know what will help them.

The problem is that they are also promoting things like "Detox," which isn't a thing. The idea that you can have their "Beautify" IV vitamin cocktail and, "Look and feel your best with healthy skin and hair prior to your event or night out," is a load of crap.

So it's a mixed bag. If she isn't feeling well before a big meeting (nausea, migrane, acid indigestion, pain) I can see some business executive ordering this up in her hotel room to try and feel better and probably cheaper than getting it at an ER or through a local doc. But the expensive "Beautify" and "Detox" (and other) treatments are pure woo.
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:24 PM   #28
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My strong objections to this:

1. It is a scam because they deliver unnecessary treatments that are not medically justified. Although enhanced hydration does help under some circumstances, such as hangovers or exhaustive exercise, there are far cheaper and safer methods than inserting an IV. Most obvious: drinking more water. As far as I can understand, saline IVs are justified in authentic medical practice to: (1) hydrate people unable to take liquids orally,such as the unconscious (2) rapidly hydrate people under emergency conditions, such as advanced heat stroke, (3) to keep a vein open in preparation for, or as carrier for actual drugs, such as an antibiotic or chemotherapeutic agents.

2. It is inherently unsafe for two reasons. One is that virtually any circumstance that would medically justify an IV is serious enough to require an real medical evaluation to accurately determine what is wrong and what to do about it immediately and long term, and access to any additional medical interventions that might prove necessary. For example if someone has severe heat stroke they should not only have a saline IV but they also should be in a medical setting in which their vital signs can be continuously monitored, they can be actively cooled with ice packs, and where emergency interventions, including defibrillators, are available. A tele-consult with some dude with a paper MD and making some extra bucks from their home does not fulfill these requirements.

The second reason is that starting/running an IV is not rocket science (or even brain surgery) but it does represents some risks: infections, damage to tissues, and contamination. Not huge risks if there is minimal competence by the "technicians" but any risk is unjustified if the treatment is unjustified. And these negative outcomes are likely to present themselves after the company's personnel leave. Will someone who is so into doctor-avoidance as to insist on diagnosing themselves and arranging at home IV hydration likely to seek out a doctor as soon as they start to have symptoms of an infection? These sounds too much like Howard Hughes...

Last edited by Giordano; 29th May 2018 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:46 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Over $400 to pump some salty water in to you as a cure for whatever?

You don't see the scam?



Can I interest you in my salty water service, only $100?
Why would I be interested in it? Do you imagine that I must be interested in every non-scam product that's out there?
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:50 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Running some amount of something directly into a person's veins without supervision? That's, like, Michael Jackson-level nonsense.
From what I can tell, the IV is being administered by a qualified health professional. How is that "without supervision"? Even hospitals don't normally send a second nurse to supervise the first one administering an IV.

I've given blood many times, where it was just one nurse and two or three donors. Is the blood bank Michael Jackson-level nonsense, or just common and reasonable practice?
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Old 29th May 2018, 01:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Can I interest you in my salty water service, only $100?
Is that a euphemism?
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Old 29th May 2018, 01:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
My strong objections to this:

1. It is a scam because they deliver unnecessary treatments that are not medically justified.
No more of a scam than any other luxury variant of a mundane product or service. No more of a scam than cosmetic surgery, for example.

Quote:
2. The second reason is that starting/running an IV is not rocket science (or even brain surgery) but it does represents some risks: infections, damage to tissues, and contamination. Not huge risks if there is minimal competence by the "technicians" but any risk is unjustified if the treatment is unjustified.
Again, cosmetic surgery.

I think it's an unnecessary product, designed to part fools from their money, but I think that about a lot of products, without considering them to be scams.
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Old 29th May 2018, 01:28 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No more of a scam than any other luxury variant of a mundane product or service. No more of a scam than cosmetic surgery, for example.


Again, cosmetic surgery.

I think it's an unnecessary product, designed to part fools from their money, but I think that about a lot of products, without considering them to be scams.
Obviously we disagree as to our definitions of scams. To me a business that sells a product or service that does not deliver what is promised is a scam. Particularly if it exploits the ignorance of its consumers. There as big scams and little scams, legal and illegal ones, accepted and shady ones. But all "scams" by my definition.

As I see it selling a $200 bottle of wine that is indistinguishable in a blind taste test from a $4 bottle of wine is a form of a scam, even though a well established and fully legal one. And I realize that thinking that it is a $200 dollar a bottle wine makes it actually taste better to the drinker than if they thought it was a $4 a bottle wine. So I also realize that in some bizarre way one can say the extra $196 was worth it to the buyer... But medical scams stick more in my craw than ripoffs of people who view themselves as gourmands.
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Old 29th May 2018, 01:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
My strong objections to this:

1. It is a scam because they deliver unnecessary treatments that are not medically justified. Although enhanced hydration does help under some circumstances, such as hangovers or exhaustive exercise, there are far cheaper and safer methods than inserting an IV. Most obvious: drinking more water.
OK, no argument there. However, there is no doubt that hydration is faster with an IV and that a severe hangover may make it hard to keep fluids down. You can go to an urgent care center or ER with a severe hangover and they will give you IV fluids. What's scammy about a mobile service that provides the same service with a medical evaluation and trained medical personnel to administer the IV? It's certainly a lot cheaper.

Quote:
2. It is inherently unsafe for two reasons. One is that virtually any circumstance that would medically justify an IV is serious enough to require an real medical evaluation to accurately determine what is wrong and what to do about it immediately and long term, and access to any additional medical interventions that might prove necessary. For example if someone has severe heat stroke they should not only have a saline IV but they also should be in a medical setting in which their vital signs can be continuously monitored, they can be actively cooled with ice packs, and where emergency interventions, including defibrillators, are available. A tele-consult with some dude with a paper MD and making some extra bucks from their home does not fulfill these requirements.
Again, I agree to some extent, but I don't think it can be demonstrated that a home IV is inherently less safe than an IV administered at a hospital. And some rich guy with a bad hangover doesn't need an ER or hospital, he needs fluids. It is much cheaper to do it at home and I don't think there is a medical reason to do it in a hospital.

Don't get me wrong; IV is probably overkill in most cases. Still, I don't think it's an outright scam or inherently unsafe. Dehydration IS a factor in hangover and IV fluids are medically indicated for dehydration. IV administration is a low-risk intervention when performed by skilled people -RNs are fully qualified to administer IV.

I do kind of wish that there was a service like this here. I got sick and very dehydrated a few months ago. I also have gastric bypass so I can't really get hydration very quickly by mouth. Plus a banana bag is standard for dehydrated people with gastric bypass. Would've been nice to avoid the hospital and just relax at home with an IV . . .
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Old 29th May 2018, 04:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
This time, the first thing the ER at my new small-town hospital did was start an IV. The previous ER's didn't do that. They also realized I was in Atrial Fibulation. They wound up giving me two full liters of IV saline, among other things. I got better. I'm reasonably certain that underlying problem was dehydration. And a bit of panic.
That's interesting. I've visited the hospital a few times over the last few years, and one of the first things they did, after admitting me, and of course asking what the problem was, was start an IV line.

Even if I hadn't yet been seen by a physician, or had anything diagnosed or prescribed, starting an IV with a saline line meant they could inject me with (whatever) quickly and easily, if and when required. Even after being "OK'd" by the doctor to leave, the last thing they would do is take out the IV.

and, as you said, dehydration will often make you feel horrible. I'm not in the "4 pints a day, no matter what" camp, but definitely in the "always have water available for when you're thirsty" group.

I've had low blood pressure, high pulse events (anxiety attacks) that were helped just by a little saline.
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Old 29th May 2018, 05:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
That's interesting. I've visited the hospital a few times over the last few years, and one of the first things they did, after admitting me, and of course asking what the problem was, was start an IV line.

Even if I hadn't yet been seen by a physician, or had anything diagnosed or prescribed, starting an IV with a saline line meant they could inject me with (whatever) quickly and easily, if and when required. Even after being "OK'd" by the doctor to leave, the last thing they would do is take out the IV.

and, as you said, dehydration will often make you feel horrible. I'm not in the "4 pints a day, no matter what" camp, but definitely in the "always have water available for when you're thirsty" group.

I've had low blood pressure, high pulse events (anxiety attacks) that were helped just by a little saline.
Exactly: they will often start an IV even if they do not feel a need to hydrate you. It gives them instant access to your blood stream both to remove blood samples for analysis and to be able to quickly introduce any drugs iv that they might find necessary. And if you are admitted to the hospital they will keep that IV in you for the entire stay for the same reasons (plus it keeps you from wandering off getting in their hair or leaving without paying your bill).
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:05 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Exactly: they will often start an IV even if they do not feel a need to hydrate you. It gives them instant access to your blood stream both to remove blood samples for analysis and to be able to quickly introduce any drugs iv that they might find necessary. And if you are admitted to the hospital they will keep that IV in you for the entire stay for the same reasons (plus it keeps you from wandering off getting in their hair or leaving without paying your bill).
Actually, my blood samples were always taken with a new needle, I'm guessing to safeguard from any traces of drugs that might be in your IV line.

They are easy (at least mine were) to take out. They use a needle for putting a line in, but it only leaves a rubber catheter behind in the vein. You barely feel it, unless it's in an awkward place (one time it was right in the crook of my arm, and not only annoyed me, but if if I forgot and bent my arm, occluding the flow, the monitor would go off and alert the nurses.)

ETA: Also, blood tests? This is a slight derail, but still relevant to the issue of health care.

I am sexist when it comes to having my blood drawn. My evidence is only anecdotal, but I have had my blood drawn at least 3 dozen times in the last decade, so I'm not inexperienced.

Women are better. I've had women slide a needle into my arm and I barely feel it. A male nurse or tech? They stab me like they are attacking the voodoo doll of their worst enemy. Maybe women have that "mom" instinct, I don't know. I did have a nurse come and talk with me one time (on her own time, she had finished a shift in a different ward, but had treated me the previous day, and knew I was upset.) Held my hand, and talked with me.

They don't get paid for that.

YMMV.

ETA: Almost added earlier- sometimes they will put a line in your leg, because the veins are bigger and it's direct to your heart. They almost did that with me. (I'm skirting what was wrong with me, but I needed blood and fluid w/electrolytes.)
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:34 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I also think that there is some value in such a service for (rich) people that suffer from migranes or other minor maladies when they are away from home and don't want to hassle with an ER when they know what will help them.

Rich people already have this. They're called "concierge" doctors and they come right to you, for an amount of money only expressible in scientific notation.

There are also mobile nursing services. When I was 17, I needed 6 weeks of IV antibioltics. A nurse came every few days to start a new IV line and my parents hooked up the antibiotics three times a day (including during lunches at school). But all of that was closely supervised and only after I'd been in the hospital on antibiolics for 3 weeks. So, they had a lot of information.


Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
From what I can tell, the IV is being administered by a qualified health professional. How is that "without supervision"? Even hospitals don't normally send a second nurse to supervise the first one administering an IV.

Starting an IV doesn't require supervision. But if you're going to be injecting people and messing with their volume, they should keep an eye on you. In a hospital, there's always someone to look in on you. But a home nurse messing with blood volume and then driving away? I have problems with that, especially if the consulting dr. only read some form you filled out and didn't see you in person.


Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
They are easy (at least mine were) to take out. They use a needle for putting a line in, but it only leaves a rubber catheter behind in the vein. You barely feel it, unless it's in an awkward place (one time it was right in the crook of my arm, and not only annoyed me, but if if I forgot and bent my arm, occluding the flow, the monitor would go off and alert the nurses.)

Dude, you have no idea. Some IV's start to get old within 24 hours. Then I'm sitting in my room, rubbing my arm, wondering if the pain at the site is worse than the pain of having a new IV put in.


Quote:
I am sexist when it comes to having my blood drawn. My evidence is only anecdotal, but I have had my blood drawn at least 3 dozen times in the last decade, so I'm not inexperienced.

Women are better.

I think that the effect you're seeing is an artifact of the long history of sexism in medicine. The people relegated to nursing and phlebotomy jobs were overwhelmingly female for a long, long time. So they got the most practice. Nurses still do the most blood draws, with doctors far behind. Between a male nurse and a female doctor, I'll take the male nurse every time.

But, yeah, doctors don't care how much pain they cause. If you're alive, they consider that a win.


Quote:
They don't get paid for that.

Nurses are saints. I certainly couldn't do it.
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
A bit over a year ago, I woke up with a severe belly ache. I've had them before; in fact had been to the Emergency Room a couple of times. They never figured out what the problem was.
This time, the first thing the ER at my new small-town hospital did was start an IV. The previous ER's didn't do that. They also realized I was in Atrial Fibulation. They wound up giving me two full liters of IV saline, among other things. I got better. I'm reasonably certain that underlying problem was dehydration. And a bit of panic.
So, do I need to have someone come in and give me IV's periodically? No. I need to drink more dang DiHydrogenMonoxide! As I've been doing ever since.
It might be worthwhile to have a bottle of Pedialyte or some rehydration salts on hand - it is possible to wash electrolytes out of your system which can be dangerous. If you're losing a lot of fluids and trying to rehydrate solely with water you can end up in a life-threatening situation. That's probably not an issue if you are eating solid food - but could be an issue if you are slamming water while losing a lot of fluids.

ETA:
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
OK, no argument there. However, there is no doubt that hydration is faster ...
Is it faster, though? It's calibrated to balance water and electrolytes, but actually is a fairly slow process. We don't drink water one drop at a time.

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Old 29th May 2018, 08:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post

Dude, you have no idea. Some IV's start to get old within 24 hours. Then I'm sitting in my room, rubbing my arm, wondering if the pain at the site is worse than the pain of having a new IV put in.





I think that the effect you're seeing is an artifact of the long history of sexism in medicine. The people relegated to nursing and phlebotomy jobs were overwhelmingly female for a long, long time. So they got the most practice. Nurses still do the most blood draws, with doctors far behind. Between a male nurse and a female doctor, I'll take the male nurse every time.

But, yeah, doctors don't care how much pain they cause. If you're alive, they consider that a win.





Nurses are saints. I certainly couldn't do it.
I do have an idea. The site I mentioned (right in the arc of my arm) was continually getting worse and worse (that's a big thing. always tell your medical practitioners that something is wrong.) Don't hold back, they want to know.

Nurses sometimes did my blood draws, but it was usually a phlebotomist from the lab. I had one guy jab me four times before an experienced nurse came in and did it in five seconds.

Nurses are saints. RE: My post above. Out of the many nurses I have seen, I have only disliked one, and that was because he discussed my condition with the doctor as though I wasn't even there (and also lied about things.)
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