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Old 5th July 2018, 04:18 AM   #321
Lothian
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's a pathetic half-baked fudge. I'm slightly surprised that May has the cheek to suggest it.
I thought it was what you wanted.

It is an electronic system that knows the final destination of goods and applies duties accordingly. That means

1 No hard border in NI
2. The UK out of the Customs union and able to negotiate its own trade deals.

Which do you object to, the lack of a hard border or leaving the CU?
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Old 5th July 2018, 04:24 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Jaguar Land Rover boss: Brexit threatens 80bn UK investment

Jaguar Land Rover has warned that a "bad" Brexit deal would threaten 80bn worth of investment plans for the UK and may force it to close factories.

The UK's biggest carmaker, owned by India's Tata Motors, said its "heart and soul is in the UK".

But without frictionless trade JLR said its UK investment plans would be in jeopardy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44719656
But Brexit means Brexit and apparently driving out such foreign companies like Jaguar Land Rover.

The new motto is British Cars for British people, none of that pesky exporting or importing of them.
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:08 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But Brexit means Brexit and apparently driving out such foreign companies like Jaguar Land Rover.

The new motto is British Cars for British people, none of that pesky exporting or importing of them.
Well that would greatly simplify any issues of conforming to global automotive standards.....
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:21 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unbelievable

Theresa May's grand plan for customs post-Brexit is a combination of the two schemes deemed unworkable. It's like someone pointing out that you cannot go down a set of river rapids in either a submarine or a square-rigged sailing ship and declaring "well then, we shall use a square-rigged submarine !".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44719576

No Mrs May, it combines the worst features of both the previous schemes, forcing much of the effort and cost onto export businesses who will already be hard pressed trying to stay in business and relying on imaginary technology to deliver a solution - whilst still requiring some kind of hard border in, or around Ireland to keep foreigners out.

Can anyone else see the problem of only having a partial solution in place by the end of the transition period ?

And anyway, unless a "partial solution" is government code for "whatever tiny bits of progress have been made by then", the idea that something as complicated as this can be implemented, tested and thoroughly de-glitched in two years is absolutely laughable - even for a partial solution.

The incompetence and complacency is both laughable and frightening at the same time.
And the 'plan' appears to have been rejected by David Davis.

I've given up saying 'unbelievable' when it comes to Trump or the Cabinet's Brexit plans, but ...
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:40 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Well to be honest, that might actually work in its favour
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:45 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
And the 'plan' appears to have been rejected by David Davis.

I've given up saying 'unbelievable' when it comes to Trump or the Cabinet's Brexit plans, but ...
A snippet from the Grauniad article:

Quote:
Downing Street indicated that under the plan tracking devices would be used to determine where the goods would ultimately end up, and therefore whether UK or EU tariffs should be paid.
That assumes that there is something
  • Is a physical thing that can be tracked as opposed to a service
  • Is sufficiently large to attach a tracker to
  • Is sufficiently valuable to warrant tracking individually
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:46 AM   #327
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Sounds cheap.
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:48 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Sounds cheap.
I also don't know whether it addresses the issue of ensuring that things imported into the UK from non-EU countries and then subsequently exported to the EU, either directly or as part of an added-value good, meet EU specifications and requirements because UK standards will diverge.

Which also sounds cheap
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:57 AM   #329
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It also assumes the existence of infrastructure to preserve the integrity of the tracking. Or do we just contract that out to the highly reliable G4S etc?
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Old 5th July 2018, 06:10 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's like someone pointing out that you cannot go down a set of river rapids in either a submarine or a square-rigged sailing ship and declaring "well then, we shall use a square-rigged submarine !".
Apologies for the minor derail, but I think I've just decided on a steampunk modelling project.

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Old 5th July 2018, 07:04 AM   #331
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More Brexit "good" news.

While the government seems to at least be trying when it comes to the customs arrangements for goods, no such luck when it comes to services.

Quote:
As Downing Street sets out details of a possible post-Brexit customs arrangement, one of the suggestions that has emerged about the government's plans for the UK's future economic relationship with the EU is that it may try - in effect - to stay in the single market for goods, but have a much looser relationship for services.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44724376

Lest anyone think that it's no big deal:
  • The service sector is the largest in the UK economy
  • It has significant added value
  • It's highly portable so can more easily be relocated to inside the EU
  • It operates a significant trade surplus with the EU
  • The EU is eager to take a bite out of it, especially financial services
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Old 5th July 2018, 07:23 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
On the technology front an assessment of current government tech projects.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...ble_and_risky/

tl;dr : More red flags than May Day in Moscow.
I've worked on a few of them...

It's nice to see that the Airwave replacement will be worse; most of us simply didn't believe that would be possible.
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Old 5th July 2018, 07:48 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unbelievable

Theresa May's grand plan for customs post-Brexit is a combination of the two schemes deemed unworkable. It's like someone pointing out that you cannot go down a set of river rapids in either a submarine or a square-rigged sailing ship and declaring "well then, we shall use a square-rigged submarine !".
Actually, it sounds like they'll use a submarine sailing ship instead.

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Old 5th July 2018, 09:05 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Apologies for the minor derail, but I think I've just decided on a steampunk modelling project.
It's been done.
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Old 5th July 2018, 09:10 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
But of course the Americans did it better.

Dave
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Old 5th July 2018, 02:17 PM   #336
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As messes go, the Cons are Olympic champs right now, with a Nobel prize for mess on top.

What odds a leadership election / general election before the end of the year?
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Old 5th July 2018, 04:17 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But Brexit means Brexit and apparently driving out such foreign companies like Jaguar Land Rover.

The new motto is British Cars for British people, none of that pesky exporting or importing of them.
Hhmmm cars for the folk of Britian, we need a catchy name for these "folks waggons". Any ideas?
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:06 PM   #338
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Good idea, let's go back to the era of British cars.

Let's see, what were we producing?

Alegro, Ital, Marina ...
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Old 6th July 2018, 12:00 AM   #339
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Apparently the cabinet has a duty to approve the Brexit plan.

Quote:
Former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, who campaigned to stay in the EU, said any ministers who do not like the deal agreed on Friday should consider resigning from cabinet, rather than "undermining" it afterwards
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44728807

What a way to operate from strength. No matter how bad the plans, and no matter how good the reasons to criticise them might be, anyone with the principles to explain why should resign rather than express their doubts.

This "democratic deficit" seems to be getting worse. Not letting parliament examine and vote on the Brexit deal is bad enough but now Theresa May seems to be pushing for the cabinet having no say either.
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Old 6th July 2018, 02:44 AM   #340
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Ministers that resign at Chequers will have their official cars withdrawn immediately and will have to make their own arrangements to return home.

Petty much?
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Old 6th July 2018, 03:11 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ministers that resign at Chequers will have their official cars withdrawn immediately and will have to make their own arrangements to return home.

Petty much?
Not petty, Strong and StableTM


edited to add....

but it's alarming to think that the UK's post-Brexit situation might be determined by whether or not someone can be bothered to sort out their own transport home. If enough cabinet members have an Uber account and are prepared to use it then it could bring the government down, if not we could stumble into an unworkable situation without any opportunity for Parliament to do anything about it.

Last edited by The Don; 6th July 2018 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:02 AM   #342
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More from Airbus on the subject of Brexit:

Quote:
The chief executive of planemaker Airbus has accused the government of having no idea how to take the UK out of the EU without damaging the country.

Tom Enders said Downing Street "still has no clue, no consensus on how to execute Brexit without severe harm".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44735505

I tend to agree, the latest proposal is yet another case of magical thinking.
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:19 AM   #343
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I do think everyone is being a tad harsh here - of course it is going to take some time to work out what we want, but we need this to be as detailed as possible so when we invoke article 50 we will know what we are negotiating for and can pour through the excruciating detail line by line with the EU.

Can you imagine the world of hurt we'd be in if we invoke article 50 without any idea what we want, never mind the detail of our leaving? There can't be a person in the country so ignorant, stupid or crazy that they wouldn't think we need to know what we want before we start negotiating!





(I've decided I'm going to live in my own version of cloud cuckoo land as it seems to be the way our government is dealing with Brexit and if it's good enough for our PM it's good enough for me!! )
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:26 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ministers that resign at Chequers will have their official cars withdrawn immediately and will have to make their own arrangements to return home.

Petty much?
I live a few minutes down the road, I'll offer a lift to the nearest train station to any that resign on principal.

However, given that principal seems to be in short supply I think my evening is safe.
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:40 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do think everyone is being a tad harsh here - of course it is going to take some time to work out what we want, but we need this to be as detailed as possible so when we invoke article 50 we will know what we are negotiating for and can pour through the excruciating detail line by line with the EU.

Can you imagine the world of hurt we'd be in if we invoke article 50 without any idea what we want, never mind the detail of our leaving? There can't be a person in the country so ignorant, stupid or crazy that they wouldn't think we need to know what we want before we start negotiating!
We were told that this is the going to be the easiest negotiation ever. I expect we could trigger article 50 on 3 29 and have it all agreed by half past.
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:53 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
We were told that this is the going to be the easiest negotiation ever. I expect we could trigger article 50 on 3 29 and have it all agreed by half past.
I'd allow another hour for crowd control of the people queuing up to do deals with us.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:03 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
How was that never turned into a 1940s screwball comedy movie with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby?!
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:12 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
How was that never turned into a 1940s screwball comedy movie with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby?!
And that brings us back to Brexit, which also seems like ideal material.

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Old 6th July 2018, 05:25 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I'd allow another hour for crowd control of the people queuing up to do deals with us.
Perhaps 2 hours. We need to teach these foreigners how the british queue first. I also expect some trouble. Donald has said the Americans want to be at the front of the queue, but we know their history of turning up late when we need them.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:39 AM   #350
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Tom Enders is a German business executive working for a part German-state-owned (also part French and Spanish-state-owned) company. Of course he is going to say and do what he thinks is best for the business he works for - just as all business people do. Businesses routinely relocate their companies or divisions of their companies to whatever country or countries give them the best commercial advantages - and they do this without much regard to their workers. This is the way most businesses have always operated and will continue to operate, before, during, and after the Brexit process.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:43 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And that brings us back to Brexit, which also seems like ideal material.

Dave
Road to Nowhere?
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:47 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Road to Nowhere?
No, that's actually a good song.

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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:50 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Tom Enders is a German business executive working for a part German-state-owned (also part French and Spanish-state-owned) company. Of course he is going to say and do what he thinks is best for the business he works for - just as all business people do.
Yes, that's rather the point. He's not saying this because he's a remoaner trying desperately to overturn the wishes of the majority of the British people; he's saying it because it represents his best estimate of what his company is going to have to do to prosper after Brexit, and it involves shafting Britain. And since several other people in similar positions are making similar predictions, it adds up to the prediction that one of the main consequences of Brexit is Britain getting seriously shafted.

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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:52 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Perhaps 2 hours. We need to teach these foreigners how the british queue first. I also expect some trouble. Donald has said the Americans want to be at the front of the queue, but we know their history of turning up late when we need them.
Well they would obviously be in the white English-speaking cough! the Priority queue which will be shorter.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:53 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Tom Enders is a German business executive working for a part German-state-owned (also part French and Spanish-state-owned) company. Of course he is going to say and do what he thinks is best for the business he works for - just as all business people do. Businesses routinely relocate their companies or divisions of their companies to whatever country or countries give them the best commercial advantages - and they do this without much regard to their workers. This is the way most businesses have always operated and will continue to operate, before, during, and after the Brexit process.
Exactly. And that won't be the UK post-Brexit.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:20 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
No, that's actually a good song.

Dave
Well, yes, but I couldn't think of another suitable "Road to..." name on the spur of the moment.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:22 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Well, yes, but I couldn't think of another suitable "Road to..." name on the spur of the moment.
Road to Hell ?
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:36 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Road to Hell ?
Follow the Yellow Brick Road? To the greatest wizard who tells you to pay no attention to the comrade behind the curtain?
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:47 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Tom Enders is a German business executive working for a part German-state-owned (also part French and Spanish-state-owned) company. Of course he is going to say and do what he thinks is best for the business he works for - just as all business people do. Businesses routinely relocate their companies or divisions of their companies to whatever country or countries give them the best commercial advantages - and they do this without much regard to their workers. This is the way most businesses have always operated and will continue to operate, before, during, and after the Brexit process.
Yes, I think that is his point.

He will do whats best for his company. As a few others have hinted at already.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:53 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Mr Fied View Post
Yes, I think that is his point.

He will do whats best for his company. As a few others have hinted at already.
Ah, but post Brexit we don't want companies that are motivated by such inconsequential things as commercial success, we want companies who are willing to do whatever is necessary to ensure the success of Brexit regardless of how that might impact their profitability.

Those rats who are deserting the ship just because it seems to be heading into choppy waters aren't the people we want - we want proper patriots like Sir James Dyson who have the best interests of the UK at heart and wouldn't dream of moving their manufacturing base out of the UK for financial reasons.......
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