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Old 28th June 2018, 01:23 PM   #361
theprestige
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not anymore see Mcconnell about that. The people should have a say first!
The people have a say in electing Senators. The people have never had a say in the nomination and confirmation of Justices. That's always been the exclusive responsibility of the President and the Senate.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:23 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The only relevant bit there is that you agree that packing the court would be an exercise in tyranny. Now, would you support it if the Democrats held executive and legislative power?
No, that's the only bit you consider relevant because you want to boil things down to the most simplistic level in order to score a rhetorical point. Congratulations! Bad things are bad!

The problem we're having today, however, is that the US system of laws is about process and the process has become corrupted such that our representative democracy is not truly representative. We are subject to tyranny. Right here, right now.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:27 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes I saw Noah's posts after I posted mine.

So does this mean you agree Gorsuch and Trump's next appointment are bad for the SCOTUS?
It means I don't like the people Trump appoints. I expect I would not agree with their politics at all.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:27 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Did any of them plead guilty to Russian collusion?
Actually, yes. This belongs in the Mueller thread, not the SCOTUS thread so I answered you there.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:31 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You can't address the substance of my post, so you engage in ad hominem.

indeed.
True story - my favorite Metallica song is Fight Fire with Fire.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:32 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Is this supposed to be serious?


...


Calls to arms to...what? Start shooting people in the government? What the ****?
Yes, this discussion certainly has been illuminating. And these are the comments on a site that encourages logic and reason. I assume that Twitter has been publishing meetups for window-smashing of Republican office-holders, and Democratic Underground has built a suitcase nuke and FedExed it to Trump Tower.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:36 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The people have a say in electing Senators. The people have never had a say in the nomination and confirmation of Justices. That's always been the exclusive responsibility of the President and the Senate.


Isn't that almost verbatim what McConnell used as an excuse to stonewall Garland? That "the people" need to be heard and that's why we can't confirm a justice in the last 10 months of a president's term?
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:47 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Sorry, but no. The Electoral college is not gerrymandering.

You may claim it's unfairly weighed, or not representative, or a number of other failings, but gerrymandering has a specific meaning.

No one's been redrawing state lines.
Agreed. I think the Electorial College should be abolished, but it's not Gerrymandering.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:51 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
First off, don't lecture the left about tearing up any rule book. The right wing threw the book out sometime during the 1980s.

But that aside, this isn't about going after Trump. Where did you get that idea? Trump is not picking these justices, the Federalist Society is. And that means the Kochs and the Mercers are picking the judges.
And Democratic President do not often follow the advice of Liberal Groups?

As much as I despise Trump,you are wrong in saying anybody but the president appoints SC Judges..
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:54 PM   #370
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Notice that the Trumpies here bring nothing to the table but snark,crowing about how they stuck it to the "progs" Whattaboutism, and willful turing a blind eye to overhweoming evidence of corruption and bigotry in the Trump Adminsitration.
I said it before and I say it again:The mian reason is they don't care if democracy goes down the tubes so long as they get their freaking 5% or whatever it is tax cut.
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Old 28th June 2018, 01:56 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
No, that's the only bit you consider relevant because you want to boil things down to the most simplistic level in order to score a rhetorical point. Congratulations! Bad things are bad!

The problem we're having today, however, is that the US system of laws is about process and the process has become corrupted such that our representative democracy is not truly representative. We are subject to tyranny. Right here, right now.
I'm not trying to score rhetorical points! I am genuinely trying to find out if people truly think packing the Court is a good idea and genuinely marveling at how they think an open declaration that it should be a policy of the Democrats to pack the Courts is not a recipe for disaster.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:01 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Notice that the Trumpies here bring nothing to the table but snark
As opposed to the brave resistance, which brings proposals like packing the courts or outright calls for violence?

Kennedy is retiring, Trump gets a new Supreme Court pick. We know his list, but there's not much more to say until he puts forward his actual nominee. Until then, snark is an entirely appropriate response to the nonsense being spewed in this thread.
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:02 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Re-read my post. I added a link you apparently didn't see. The lines were redrawn when it was admitted. It cited as an example of gerrymandering at the gerrymandering article at wikipedia.
I'd argue that usage, but I'll concede the point. You're technically correct.

However, that's over and done with, so it's apparently not a new problem. And I'm pretty sure that Skeptic Ginger was not complaining about where the dividing line between North and South Dakota was in her comment.

If so, I apologize and sand corrected.

I suspect she was concerned that low population states get 2 senators just like high ones, thus increasing representation of those states comparatively. That's not gerrymandering.

Again, if I'm incorrect, I concede and withdraw.
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:02 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
: jaw-dropp

Isn't that almost verbatim what McConnell used as an excuse to stonewall Garland? That "the people" need to be heard and that's why we can't confirm a justice in the last 10 months of a president's term?
Yep. And it's a stupid excuse. If ponderingturtle was just pointing and laughing at McConnells' stupid excuse, then I have no complaints or objections. I apologize for any confusion.
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:05 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Notice that the Trumpies here bring nothing to the table but snark,crowing about how they stuck it to the "progs" Whattaboutism, and willful turing a blind eye to overhweoming evidence of corruption and bigotry in the Trump Adminsitration.
I said it before and I say it again:The mian reason is they don't care if democracy goes down the tubes so long as they get their freaking 5% or whatever it is tax cut.
Wrong again. You should try talking to the conservatives here, instead of hosting tea parties for caricatures in your head.

Or at least you should try actually reading the conservatives here.
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:18 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
If so, I apologize and sand corrected.
That's refreshing!
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:24 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That you describe a conservative court as "unacceptable" rather than "undesirable" gives the game away.

There are no actual principles at stake here, only partisanship.
You realize there are reasons other than partisanship why Democrats would find such a court unacceptable, right?
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:26 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yep. And it's a stupid excuse. If ponderingturtle was just pointing and laughing at McConnells' stupid excuse, then I have no complaints or objections. I apologize for any confusion.
Fair enough
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:29 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wrong again. You should try talking to the conservatives here, instead of hosting tea parties for caricatures in your head.

Or at least you should try actually reading the conservatives here.
From what I read from the conservatives, they regularly host tea parties for caricatures in their head.

For instance, the comically asinine assumption that the left is looking for impeachments and resignations down the line until they get Hillary as president. Not that anyone here would suggest something so stupid.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:30 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
You realize there are reasons other than partisanship why Democrats would find such a court unacceptable, right?
I don't desire a progressive court, but I would certainly accept a progressive court. Because I like the process even more than I like partisan victory.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:37 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't desire a progressive court, but I would certainly accept a progressive court. Because I like the process even more than I like partisan victory.
I don't desire a conservative court, but I could live with it. But if that court started rolling back civil and reproductive rights? Yeah, I would want something done about that.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:40 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That's refreshing!
Eh, thanks, but it's minimal, really

I can get just as ideologically blinded and hot-under-the-collar as anyone, but I do try to own it if I've screwed the pooch* made a mistake.


*-Decided I should leave my personal life out of this...
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:42 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post


Isn't that almost verbatim what McConnell used as an excuse to stonewall Garland? That "the people" need to be heard and that's why we can't confirm a justice in the last 10 months of a president's term?
Once uttered, history changes. We've always been at war with Eurasia.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:49 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Agreed. I think the Electorial College should be abolished, but it's not Gerrymandering.
Did you read the Wiki paragraph?

Here's another Wiki page:
Quote:
The practice of gerrymandering the borders of new states continued past the Civil War and into the late 19th century. The Republican Party used its control of Congress to secure the admission of more states in territories friendly to their party. A notable example is the admission of Dakota Territory as two states instead of one. By the rules for representation in the Electoral College, each new state carried at least three electoral votes, regardless of its population.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:51 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And Democratic President do not often follow the advice of Liberal Groups?

As much as I despise Trump,you are wrong in saying anybody but the president appoints SC Judges..
It wasn't that a recommendation was given, it was which group provided the list that I was referring to.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:53 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm not trying to score rhetorical points! I am genuinely trying to find out if people truly think packing the Court is a good idea and genuinely marveling at how they think an open declaration that it should be a policy of the Democrats to pack the Courts is not a recipe for disaster.
Packing the court is what is being done. Correcting the skew is not packing the court.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:55 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I'd argue that usage, but I'll concede the point. You're technically correct.

However, that's over and done with, so it's apparently not a new problem. And I'm pretty sure that Skeptic Ginger was not complaining about where the dividing line between North and South Dakota was in her comment.

If so, I apologize and sand corrected.

I suspect she was concerned that low population states get 2 senators just like high ones, thus increasing representation of those states comparatively. That's not gerrymandering.

Again, if I'm incorrect, I concede and withdraw.
We were talking about both the EC and the imbalance in the Senate. Both result in minority rule and both affect the partisanship of the SCOTUS.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:59 PM   #388
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Remember folks, Kennedy sided with the liberal justices in a recent 5-4 decision denying the government the ability to track your every movement via your cellphone without obtaining a warrant.

This country is so ******
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Old 28th June 2018, 04:06 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
We were talking about both the EC and the imbalance in the Senate. Both result in minority rule and both affect the partisanship of the SCOTUS.
I'd agree with that, but wouldn't classify it as gerrymandering.

In any case, I think we've delved far enough on this side topic...I wouldn't be opposed to discussing it (electoral college problems) in another thread, though.
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Old 28th June 2018, 04:29 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Where "ignore like that" means "not actually ignore". The Senate Majority Leader advised the President that the Senate was not going to confirm his nominee.*

Constitutional authority exercised. Constitutional requirement satisfied.

---
*This advice was consistent with the Senate's own rules of procedure, for which there is no higher authority than the Senate itself.
Well, no. The majority leader informed the president no one whose name he offered would get so much as a how d’ya do. This was Mr. McConnell refusing to do his job, as well as blocking the senate from doing theirs.
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Old 28th June 2018, 04:32 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Well, no. The majority leader informed the president no one whose name he offered would get so much as a how dya do. This was Mr. McConnell refusing to do his job, as well as blocking the senate from doing theirs.
But it's okay, because Mitch is a Republican.
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Old 28th June 2018, 04:48 PM   #392
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For some time now a litmus test has not been imposed upon any SC nominee. That is, there has been no requirement that some particular condition be met.

Until now. Trump has stated on a few occasions that he'll only nominate a judge who will overturn Roe v Wade. That's a might specific litmus test. Any judge who'd do that would probably be amenable to any number of rights-rollback decisions.

That's what has the Dems running scared, and goddamned rightfully so.


The hypocrisy of McConnell in wanting to hastily install their boy just 4 months before this coming election is starkly apparent when he was so much for delaying Obama's pick fully 10 months before the election then.

I'll concede that the difference is that back then it was a Presidential election. But that notwithstanding, this next election can alter the makeup of the Senate, and so the People should have the chance for their voice to be heard, like the last time--as the Rs then would have us believe was their motivation, wink wink.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:08 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
But it's okay, because Mitch is a Republican.
It would have been okay with me even if he'd been a Democrat.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:17 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Keep in mind the ID is useful for more than just voting, hell the one in Chicago is a valid, government-issued ID, a library card, and transit card. That way the poors can go and vote for exactly how their precinct captain tells them to vote.

Not only that, but what kind of life can you live in this day and age without an ID card? ID is required to rent an apartment or house, have utilities hooked up, start a job, open a checking or savings account, travel (even Greyhound requires photo ID now to get a ticket), and the list goes on and on.

I think the real reason the progressives are upset about the proletariat getting ID is that it's the first step to escaping the Democratic plantation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:19 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
Not only that, but what kind of life can you live in this day and age without an ID card? ID is required to rent an apartment or house, have utilities hooked up, start a job, open a checking or savings account, travel (even Greyhound requires photo ID now to get a ticket), and the list goes on and on.

I think the real reason the progressives are upset about the proletariat getting ID is that it's the first step to escaping the Democratic plantation.
Geez, you get rid of one Logger and another pops up.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:27 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
You realize there are reasons other than partisanship why Democrats would find such a court unacceptable, right?
Sure. There is also special pleading.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:35 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm not trying to score rhetorical points! I am genuinely trying to find out if people truly think packing the Court is a good idea and genuinely marveling at how they think an open declaration that it should be a policy of the Democrats to pack the Courts is not a recipe for disaster.
Packing the court is what the GOP is doing now.
We are on the verge of going over the Abyss and becoming a authoritarian dictatorship; extreme times call for extreme measures.
Besides, the number of justices has changed a number of times over the years;the Consituioin gives the Congress absolute power to determine the number of justices.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:46 PM   #398
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Packing the court is what is being done. Correcting the skew is not packing the court.
Again with the Humpty Dumpty theory of language. That isnt what packing the courts means.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:48 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I'd agree with that, but wouldn't classify it as gerrymandering.

In any case, I think we've delved far enough on this side topic...I wouldn't be opposed to discussing it (electoral college problems) in another thread, though.
You're still going on with that despite two sources where other people called the state lines gerrymandered?


Whatever. Done with this is good.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:54 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're still going on with that despite two sources where other people called the state lines gerrymandered?
Unsourced claims on Wikipedia, you mean?
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