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Old 27th June 2018, 02:27 PM   #121
Mumbles
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
John McCain probably can't vote. Susan Collins might balk, she doesn't have a pro-life voting record.

That leaves 49 plus Pence. I think you need 51 votes.
More likely "Yea" votes - all available GOP votes, plus Joe Manchin.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:30 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
This isn't good. Moderates are what we need more than anything at a time like this.

I'm feeling particularly uneasy.

In the modern GOP 'moderate Republican' is spelled 'RINO'. Anyone outside the GOP is a bleeding heart, Socialist, Pinko, Commie Leftist who hates white people and God. Or worse. Those are the good ones.

There are no moderates in their worldview.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:34 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
John McCain probably can't vote. Susan Collins might balk, she doesn't have a pro-life voting record.

That leaves 49 plus Pence. I think you need 51 votes.
Collins voted for the nuclear option and for Gorsuch. It's not like a potential judge is going to say "I'm going to overturn Roe v. Wade".

It is theoretically possible for a moderate Republican to force a moderate judge, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:44 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- Voter suppression. (some of that probably existed under Bush, but has gotten worse over time)
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:55 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
- Withdrawn from TPP
- Withdrawn from Paris accord
- Has given notice to the G7 and the world at large that he won't be messed with on trade
- Brought all kinds of manufacturing and mining jobs back to the US *
- Sunk the Iran nuclear deal
- Brought peace to Korea
- Fully supported Israel
- Implemented a (not a) Muslim ban


* facts don't matter
Should have put an asterisk next to "Korea" there as well. They've said and done nothing thus far, despite Cheeto Benito's statements that they have.

That one about Israel is highly important to end-timers, of course - because as we all know, Jesus himself very clearly stated that it's easy to predict the time of his return, and also he hates dudes kissing and fertilized eggs are full humans. People just kind of forget that passage, though.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:57 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Collins voted for the nuclear option and for Gorsuch. It's not like a potential judge is going to say "I'm going to overturn Roe v. Wade".

It is theoretically possible for a moderate Republican to force a moderate judge, but I'm not holding my breath.
Strange things can come out in these nominating hearings, and the more extreme the nominee, the more likely he's said/done something a RINO could blame for their "no" vote.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:58 PM   #127
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Settle down, liberals. I'm sure Mitch McConell will delay a vote until after the mid-term election.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:59 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
This is kind of like people comparing the economy at high point in the business cycle versus a low point (e.g., President George H.W. Bush's first year in office versus Clinton's). Two-thousand was a low point because believed the parties closely resembled one another.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...2016-elections

It's not exactly a secret that Republicans want to reduce voter turnout, and Democrats want to increase it. Whenever I raise the argument for mandatory voting, conservatives dismiss it as "helping Democrats."
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:10 PM   #129
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I'm really confused. Why are people talking about Trump appointing anybody? I thought we established the precedent that Supreme Court vacancies are filled by whoever the next president is, not the current one? Because of voting, the people, etc etc.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:19 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
Got a denominator for those numbers? They are 16 years apart.

Know who increased voter turnout and who decreased voter turnout?

Your not-well-thought-out analysis is meaningless if you are trying to say those numbers prove minorities' votes were not suppressed.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:25 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Got a denominator for those numbers? They are 16 years apart.

Know who increased voter turnout and who decreased voter turnout?

Your not-well-thought-out analysis is meaningless if you are trying to say those numbers prove minorities' votes were not suppressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_...tial_elections
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:28 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
This isn't good. Moderates are what we need more than anything at a time like this.

I'm feeling particularly uneasy.
And that the Dems are developing their own left wing version of the Tea Party (hard line ideologues for whom compromise is a dirty word) is not comforting.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:29 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
That is one hell of a red herring, and you know it,and totally ignores the gerrnymandering issue.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:39 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is one hell of a red herring, and you know it,and totally ignores the gerrnymandering issue.
walk us through how gerrymandering impacted the presidential election?

Because the leftists gerrymandered the living **** out of Illinois.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:40 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is one hell of a red herring, and you know it,and totally ignores the gerrnymandering issue.
As well as the openly stated intention of multiple GOPers in charge of drawing district lines, such as in Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

(This is one area that quite a few people are working on, as well, as the problem has become downright ridiculous in how openly unrepresentative many of these maps have become - but it's no guarantee it'll work)
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:45 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
What is that data dump supposed to mean? Brainster made the claim, his data fell short supporting it. Not to mention he didn't support his premise in the first place.
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Old 27th June 2018, 03:46 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And that the Dems are developing their own left wing version of the Tea Party (hard line ideologues for whom compromise is a dirty word) is not comforting.
At this point that is still a myth. Clinton won over Sanders.
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Old 27th June 2018, 04:09 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What is that data dump supposed to mean? Brainster made the claim, his data fell short supporting it. Not to mention he didn't support his premise in the first place.

It's voter turnout statistics and includes "the denominator" you asked for.
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Old 27th June 2018, 04:11 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
It's voter turnout statistics and includes "the denominator" you asked for.
No, that's not what I asked for. Brainster needs to provide data with a denominator that is meaningful. A data dump of voter stats for me to go through and make a cogent argument which isn't even a supportable premise in the first place does not support his claim.

Hint: his claim that more voters 16 years later proves the vote wasn't suppressed is unsupportable because there are dozens of variables even if he had comparable denominators.
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Old 27th June 2018, 04:15 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, that's not what I asked for. Brainster needs to provide data with a denominator that is meaningful. A data dump of voter stats for me to go through and make a cogent argument which isn't even a supportable premise in the first place does not support his claim.

Hint: his claim that more voters 16 years later proves the vote wasn't suppressed is unsupportable because there are dozens of variables even if he had comparable denominators.

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Old 27th June 2018, 04:52 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO the vast majority are still far more scared of being primaried than they are of losing the election. After all they already have a 7% advantage, imagine how wide that will be when GOP voter suppression, aided and abetted by a sympathetic SCOTUS, really switches into high gear.
I find this unnecessarily hyperbolic. Who needs voter suppression when you have Jimmy Dore telling every progressive not to vote for the "establishment".
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Old 27th June 2018, 04:57 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
This is kind of like people comparing the economy at high point in the business cycle versus a low point (e.g., President George H.W. Bush's first year in office versus Clinton's). Two-thousand was a low point because believed the parties closely resembled one another.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...2016-elections
So compare it to 2004, when 122 million people turned out to vote. All I can say is that if the Republicans are truly suppressing the vote, they must have put the Three Stooges in charge of it.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:04 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is one hell of a red herring, and you know it,and totally ignores the gerrnymandering issue.
Why is it a red herring to point out that voter turnout as a percentage of the population was 55.5% in 2016, the third highest turnout in the last 12 presidential elections? Because it doesn't fit the voter suppression narrative is my guess.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:09 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
walk us through how gerrymandering impacted the presidential election?

Because the leftists gerrymandered the living **** out of Illinois.
It is incredibly disingenuous to complain about the other side gerrymandering when you have a +7 advantage nationally. Dont be a sore winner.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:30 PM   #145
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Two other notes:

First, the Supreme Court has, in general, been deeply hostile towards civil rights in general, and that very clearly includes the Roberts Court. We still win long term anyway, sometimes by force.

Second, there's a lot of "Congress has granted this power to the President" - pretty obvious fix there, don't vote for misogynists, white supremacists, islamophobes, homophobes, transphobes, and so forth. And if you have an overt bigot on your ballot, like, say, Dolt 45, then vote against them, instead of sitting it out in a huff because the opponent is "the same" or whatever.

Of course, again, if you're here and you still support Dolt 45, then it's reasonable to assume that you're also an overt bigot, so in that case, I guess...vote for the overt bigot that will advance your hatred.

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Old 27th June 2018, 05:34 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections but still only have 4 seats on the Supreme Court. It's almost like influencing the margins matters.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:41 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Settle down, liberals. I'm sure Mitch McConell will delay a vote until after the mid-term election.
Nommed. Best Cain post ever.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:55 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I posted my comment in a thread full of progressives that are upset that he resigned.
It would be upsetting that ANY of them resigned. The VACANCY is the issue.

But I think you knew that...
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:06 PM   #149
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Elections have consequences.

Thank the DNC and Hillary for this.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:07 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Elections have consequences.

Thank the DNC and Hillary for this.
The DNC isnt why Clinton won the the nomination.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:09 PM   #151
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Outlawing abortion seems seems to be at odds with increasing Republican votes.

If Republicans cared as much as they claim, we would not have Trump as president. The 'economy, nationalism, and getoutofmycountry' has a massive lead on 'abortion, school prayer, and all things LGBT'.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:12 PM   #152
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I think this misses a big point...

Roe v Wade is a bad decision. Is there a dumber collection of words than penumbra and emanation?
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:31 PM   #153
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From a Facebook friend:



Best to remember about 4 in 10 Americans probably feel this way.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:52 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
So compare it to 2004, when 122 million people turned out to vote. All I can say is that if the Republicans are truly suppressing the vote, they must have put the Three Stooges in charge of it.
If you believe millions of votes need to be suppressed, you so don't understand the issue.

This is the wrong thread. And I doubt my explaining it will matter anyway.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:54 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Oh, yeah, the voter suppression has gotten terrible. Did you know that 137 million people voted for President in 2016, as compared to 105 million in 2000?
That's an irrelevant statistic.

The fact that more people in total vote in one election compared to another could be due to several factors... population growth, interest in the particular candidates, etc. Voter suppression does not mean that you can't have more votes cast overall, it just means that there are barriers to voting that makes it more difficult (and reduces turnout) for one particular demographic.

Here's a study from last year:

From: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-study/517218/
A new study from researchers Zoltan Hajnal, Nazita Lajevardi, and Lindsay Nielson at the University of California San Diego is one of the first to analyze certified votes across all states after the implementation of voter laws in multiple elections...researchers found that strict ID laws doubled the turnout gap between whites and Latinos in the general elections, and almost doubled the white-black turnout gap in primary elections.

Or how about: https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-vo...ion-fact-sheet
A 2014 GAO study found that strict photo ID laws reduce turnout by 2-3 percentage points... Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites

ETA: In 2000, voter turnout was 56.6%. In 2016, voter turnout was 55.4%.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/polit...016/index.html
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:55 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Elections have consequences.

Thank the DNC and Hillary for this.
Or Putin and the ignorance of the US voting public not to recognize a con when they see one.
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Old 27th June 2018, 06:56 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
...
Best to remember about 4 in 10 Americans probably feel this way.
4 out of 10? In other words tyranny of the minority?
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Old 27th June 2018, 07:06 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
4 out of 10? In other words tyranny of the minority?
I was just referring to an approximation of Trump’s approval rating.

The actual number of Americans preferring a conservative Supreme Court is quite possibly higher.
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“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 27th June 2018, 08:05 PM   #159
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I was just referring to an approximation of Trump’s approval rating.

The actual number of Americans preferring a conservative Supreme Court is quite possibly higher.
Maybe, maybe not. What trump has taught USCIS that a significant minority of the American population is stupid. (Racist too..) Many will vote against their own best interest as a result.

Many may claim they want more conservative judges, but if the court actually starts attacking things the citizen actually likes (like porn) they will be unhappy.

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Old 27th June 2018, 10:27 PM   #160
Minoosh
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Maybe, maybe not. What trump has taught USCIS that a significant minority of the American population is stupid. (Racist too..) Many will vote against their own best interest as a result.
Fully half are below average.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Many may claim they want more conservative judges, but if the court actually starts attacking things the citizen actually likes (like porn) they will be unhappy.
I had the same thought today after giving my mother a litmus test on abortion. I asked her if she thought it should be illegal, and she replied that it was a sin. Which didn't quite answer the question. I think that for all the posturing that goes on there are quite a few pragmatists who want to keep their options open. My mom basically said she thought people should use better contraception.

She found my birth control pills when I was a teenager but notably did not throw them out. I took them to school where up to a year's supply of Ortho Novum threatened to come cascading out whenever I opened my locker.
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