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Old 10th July 2018, 09:05 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe the full explanation of his death won't come because it's about his bad judgements and decisions and cave divers don't do that because you get yourself killed. If so, it also puts light on whoever vetted him as being good to go. Somebody said he was "rusty"?
Do you get your info from the same sources as trump?
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Old 10th July 2018, 09:06 AM   #362
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Oh goodie let the conspiracy theories start.

I heard the boys were all crisis actors and the rain water that trapped them were caused by HARP.

It's cave diving. It's inherently one of the most dangerous activities one can partake in on the best day. Add to that racing against the clock because of dipping oxygen levels in the cave and impending rain and tragic accidents happen.
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Old 10th July 2018, 09:09 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Now that the crisis is resolved happily, I'd like to know more about how Saman Gunan died. Considering everything else that was accomplished here by so many people, it's hard to understand why he's not going home too. "Ran out of air" isn't enough of an explanation for the death of an ex-Navy SEAL who apparently was placing air tanks. Equipment failure? Disorientation? Injury? Why was he apparently working alone? Etc.
One thought I had was that he was used during 'rehearsals' that went terribly wrong. They had to test the rescue plan on someone, right? Perhaps he was bound or sedated? given a different air mix? More likely he simply made a miscalculation.

They never dive alone. Reports said his 'buddy' diver could not revive him.
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Old 10th July 2018, 09:35 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post

Cute teenage girls with a pretty female teacher (possibly played by Jessica Chastain), trapped in a cave that somehow does not get them very dirty, except for little smudges of mud that accentuate the cheekbones.
I like your attention to detail :-). Get writing at once, the movie companies will be flooded with manuscripts in a month or two.

My own input:

The male main character will be a combination of the three or four key people in the rescue operation, whether it makes sense or not. He will do a lot of dangerous diving and discover the boys, then spend a couple of scenes outside the cave organising the rescue effort and fighting penny pinching bureaucrats for necessary resources. Then he will be back in the caves, almost saving his old pal Saman Gunan. He will drag him to an air pocket, but it's too late. With his last breath Gunan begs our main character to bring ... the... boys... home. Outside the cave again. More shouting at stuffy government people. When they finally do the attempt to bring the boys out its all of them in one big group, of course. They loose time at the pinch point and are almost out of air and loosing courage. Then lights appear ahead in the murk. The lights grow brighter... It's Elon Musk leading a small flotilla of micro submarines! Everybody laughs and high fives.

Musk should be played by Kevin Durand.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:14 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh goodie let the conspiracy theories start.

I heard the boys were all crisis actors and the rain water that trapped them were caused by HARP.

It's cave diving. It's inherently one of the most dangerous activities one can partake in on the best day. Add to that racing against the clock because of dipping oxygen levels in the cave and impending rain and tragic accidents happen.
I'm not promoting any conspiracy theories. Maybe corners were cut because divers were eager to save the lives of 12 children. No shame in that. But from what I've read about cave diving, accidents are most likely to happen when people get trapped in unfamiliar spaces or get separated from their partners. In this case, the caves were mapped and he was working with a lot of other people. I think he and his family and his brother SEALs deserve a fuller accounting than "Ah, accidents happen."
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:22 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm not promoting any conspiracy theories. Maybe corners were cut because divers were eager to save the lives of 12 children. No shame in that. But from what I've read about cave diving, accidents are most likely to happen when people get trapped in unfamiliar spaces or get separated from their partners. In this case, the caves were mapped and he was working with a lot of other people. I think he and his family and his brother SEALs deserve a fuller accounting than "Ah, accidents happen."
I expect the SEALS and others working there know exactly what happened. His family and others that need to know can be advised without all the details being made public. I expect that those that need to know already do.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:30 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
I like your attention to detail :-). Get writing at once, the movie companies will be flooded with manuscripts in a month or two.

My own input:

The male main character will be a combination of the three or four key people in the rescue operation, whether it makes sense or not. He will do a lot of dangerous diving and discover the boys, then spend a couple of scenes outside the cave organising the rescue effort and fighting penny pinching bureaucrats for necessary resources. Then he will be back in the caves, almost saving his old pal Saman Gunan. He will drag him to an air pocket, but it's too late. With his last breath Gunan begs our main character to bring ... the... boys... home. Outside the cave again. More shouting at stuffy government people. When they finally do the attempt to bring the boys out its all of them in one big group, of course. They loose time at the pinch point and are almost out of air and loosing courage. Then lights appear ahead in the murk. The lights grow brighter... It's Elon Musk leading a small flotilla of micro submarines! Everybody laughs and high fives.

Musk should be played by Kevin Durand.
Conflict. There has to be conflict. And a love interest.

The little asthmatic boy will add tension.

We need loud incidental music, of the type in 'Dunkirk'.

So, we have a female rescuer, Cameron Diaz, or Sandra Bullock, as she needs to be a bit of a tomboy. The conflict comes between the toffee-nosed Brits and their evil accents versus Tom Hanks playing leader of the Thai Navy SEALS. The leader of the Brits is Colin Firth, who is in rivalry with Tom Hanks over Sandra Bullock (or maybe Rene Zellweger) who have a Hugh Grant-style fight in the cave mouth wading in water over what would be the best technique.

In the mean time, the little kid is having an asthma attack and is in a coma, so has to be brought out doubly quick. One of the SEALS dies during the process (usually a Black guy, as they always get killed off first) and Tom Hanks beats Firth to it. The boy is brought out looking limp and dead. Firth performs an heroic mouth to mouth resuscitation on him. After a nail-biting five minutes when we think it is all too late, the boy suddenly opens his eyes, stirs, sits up and asks, looking real cute, 'What was the score in the England game?' (He is wearing a filthy England shirt, but we can still make out the three lions on his chest.)

We then become aware that the entire Thai SEALS, and the US SEALS and the Brits, together with the entire Royal Family, have been standing around watching all this, for a tremendous cheer goes up and a round of applause.

The kid is brought out to a flash of paparazzi on Tom Hanks' shoulders.

Fast forward to the World Cup Final (Belgium vs England) and we see Firth and Bullock holding hands in the Royal Box gazing fondly into each other's eyes.

[Ends]
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:37 AM   #368
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I think we need a troglodyte dino-shark-monster played by Andy Serkis.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:41 AM   #369
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The whole thing will turn into a sequel to "The Descent"
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:54 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe the full explanation of his death won't come because it's about his bad judgements and decisions and cave divers don't do that because you get yourself killed. If so, it also puts light on whoever vetted him as being good to go. Somebody said he was "rusty"?
Could have been a faulty gauge that said a tank was full when it wasn't and he ran out or air in a bad place.

Could be he misjudged that he had enough air to return when he didn't.

Could be a different kind of equipment failure.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:55 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
I like your attention to detail :-). Get writing at once, the movie companies will be flooded with manuscripts in a month or two.

My own input:

The male main character will be a combination of the three or four key people in the rescue operation, whether it makes sense or not. He will do a lot of dangerous diving and discover the boys, then spend a couple of scenes outside the cave organising the rescue effort and fighting penny pinching bureaucrats for necessary resources. Then he will be back in the caves, almost saving his old pal Saman Gunan. He will drag him to an air pocket, but it's too late. With his last breath Gunan begs our main character to bring ... the... boys... home. Outside the cave again. More shouting at stuffy government people. When they finally do the attempt to bring the boys out its all of them in one big group, of course. They loose time at the pinch point and are almost out of air and loosing courage. Then lights appear ahead in the murk. The lights grow brighter... It's Elon Musk leading a small flotilla of micro submarines! Everybody laughs and high fives.

Musk should be played by Kevin Durand.
I'd be interested in directing the discovery sequence. Start with a 10-minute scene played out in complete darkness. This is on the 9th day, so everybody is clinging to their last hopes. The oxygen in the cavern is almost completely gone. The kids are whispering their last goodbyes to each other (and their families).

Gradually we become aware of a faint green glow under the water. We're not sure our eyes even register it at first, but no, it is definitely a light. One of the kids says "What's that?" and there is now enough ambient light that we can see the kids sit up curiously. Cut to a blinding bright light as the diver breaks the surface, slowly removes his mask, and we hear a voice say "Is everyone all right?", in English of course.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:56 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Could have been a faulty gauge that said a tank was full when it wasn't and he ran out or air in a bad place.

Could be he misjudged that he had enough air to return when he didn't.

Could be a different kind of equipment failure.
Or a heart attack. Or something not at all equipment related.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:25 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Could have....
Could have got himself stuck. I'd rather wait for more details than to speculate more.

Ranb
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:32 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Could have been a faulty gauge that said a tank was full when it wasn't and he ran out or air in a bad place.

Could be he misjudged that he had enough air to return when he didn't.

Could be a different kind of equipment failure.
I thought that cave divers always wear a small auxiliary air tank called a "pony bottle" in case anything goes wrong with their main tank or regulator. The pony bottle has its own regulator.

Scuba divers are trained in how to survive if you run out of air or have catastrophic equipment failure resulting in no air. But a cave diver has to be trained differently because they cannot make an emergency ascent to the surface if they can no longer breathe. An alternative air source has always got to be at hand or else you are going to die.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:33 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
I think we need a troglodyte dino-shark-monster played by Andy Serkis.
*Knock Knock*
"Who's there?"
"Cave Shark."
"What?"
"Uh... package delivery."
"What is it?"
"Uh... SCUBA tanks."
...
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:42 AM   #376
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Are all the rescuers and the MD safely out now too? I hope so.

This is absolutely amazing. As it became more and more clear how difficult the rescue would be and the increasing urgency of the situation I became convinced that many of the boys would die in the attempt. I thought that if only two or three died the rescue would have to be considered an impressive success. Rescuing all, plus the coach? Absolutely amazing! The many people involved in the rescue effort at all levels did a miraculous job, and the individuals in particular who risked their own lives truly deserve a very large monument to their bravery, devotion, and skill.

I will find it very difficult to deal with the wave of second-guessing and criticism that has already begun and which will now no-doubt expand. Not just criticism of the coach, and the boys, and their parents. Criticism of the rescuers. I would be surprised if the boys have zero injuries from the rescue: inevitably there will be people who will take the rescuers to task for each laceration and bruise. Inevitably there will be people who will say the rescuers should have performed the rescue earlier. Or later. Or differently. Or the divers wore the wrong color wet suits. What a petty and disturbing side of human nature. And of course the conspiracy theories will arise as idiots go through every picture and press release looking for the slightest contradiction. Indeed the very fact that all the boys were successfully rescued must, to conspiracy lovers, prove that it was a fake.

A hint of what will come can be found in the treatment I've already read of Saman Gunan: he must have been "rusty, or ill-prepared, or done something stupid." Gee- first of all he was risking his life to help strangers and he had significant prior experience. Cave diving is inherently incredibly dangerous. Here were the added pressures of limited time and having many, many people involved, most of whom had never worked together before. Whatever led to Saman Gunan's death, as a human being and as a parent I have only the deepest praise and deepest grief for him. He gave his life trying to help others.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:46 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'd be interested in directing the discovery sequence. Start with a 10-minute scene played out in complete darkness. This is on the 9th day, so everybody is clinging to their last hopes. The oxygen in the cavern is almost completely gone. The kids are whispering their last goodbyes to each other (and their families).

Gradually we become aware of a faint green glow under the water. We're not sure our eyes even register it at first, but no, it is definitely a light. One of the kids says "What's that?" and there is now enough ambient light that we can see the kids sit up curiously. Cut to a blinding bright light as the diver breaks the surface, slowly removes his mask, and we hear a voice say "Is everyone all right?", in English of course.
Absolutely great scripting, except the action movies I've seen suggest we need a bit of self-depreciating humor here. Perhaps the diver should say as he breaks the surface, "Okay, who ordered the sausage pizza? And I can't make change for more than a 100 baht bill"

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Old 10th July 2018, 11:52 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Could have got himself stuck. I'd rather wait for more details than to speculate more.
One of the speculations is that we won't get more details.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:54 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Could have got himself stuck. I'd rather wait for more details than to speculate more.

Ranb
I wasn't trying to speculate, I was listing common causes. No need to put bizarre ones on the list.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:56 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Are all the rescuers and the MD safely out now too? I hope so.
All members of the rescue team are out as well. No one is currently in the cave by any reports I can find.

Quote:
I will find it very difficult to deal with the wave of second-guessing and criticism that has already begun and which will now no-doubt expand.
Agreed.
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:01 PM   #381
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I guess despite the boys being trapped for days in pitch black, they weren't as likely to be eaten by a grue as we've all been led to believe all these years.
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:05 PM   #382
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I wonder if their circadian rhythm has been significant altered.
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:53 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
I like your attention to detail :-). Get writing at once, the movie companies will be flooded with manuscripts in a month or two.

My own input:

The male main character will be a combination of the three or four key people in the rescue operation, whether it makes sense or not. He will do a lot of dangerous diving and discover the boys, then spend a couple of scenes outside the cave organising the rescue effort and fighting penny pinching bureaucrats for necessary resources. Then he will be back in the caves, almost saving his old pal Saman Gunan. He will drag him to an air pocket, but it's too late. With his last breath Gunan begs our main character to bring ... the... boys... home. Outside the cave again. More shouting at stuffy government people. When they finally do the attempt to bring the boys out its all of them in one big group, of course. They loose time at the pinch point and are almost out of air and loosing courage. Then lights appear ahead in the murk. The lights grow brighter... It's Elon Musk leading a small flotilla of micro submarines! Everybody laughs and high fives.

Musk should be played by Kevin Durand.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The American version:

In which everyone is American, regardless of where in the world the movie takes place. Girls (boys who need to be rescued are not manly enough for American cinema). Cute teenage girls with a pretty female teacher (possibly played by Jessica Chastain), trapped in a cave that somehow does not get them very dirty, except for little smudges of mud that accentuate the cheekbones.

Rescued by macho military guys, aided by uncouth rednecks (coal miners or oil rig roughnecks) who fight the evil government bureaucracy. One of the military guys is the estranged husband/lover of the cute teacher.

Also, there are terrorists, drug smugglers, or the evil sort of environmentalists, or something like that.

The rescue will somehow need to involve shooting things and blowing things up, to the tune of a good Hans Zimmer score.

Where the hell is that damned "cynicism" smiley when I need it !?
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:37 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Are all the rescuers and the MD safely out now too?
All except for the one guy, maybe.

But for hardcore extremophiles like some of these rescuers are sure to be, is there a point where it stops being a rescue that they need to get safely out of, and starts being a once in a lifetime opportunity to dive Pattaya Beach during the rainy season?

I bet there's a diver in Thailand right now who's thinking, "Thank god those boys are safe, but honestly? This is great. I could keep going for a while. What if we maybe took a couple of these spare tanks and did one last dive?"
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:42 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I guess despite the boys being trapped for days in pitch black, they weren't as likely to be eaten by a grue as we've all been led to believe all these years.
They must have get lamp, light lamp before going east.
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Old 10th July 2018, 03:29 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Are all the rescuers and the MD safely out now too? I hope so.

This is absolutely amazing. As it became more and more clear how difficult the rescue would be and the increasing urgency of the situation I became convinced that many of the boys would die in the attempt. I thought that if only two or three died the rescue would have to be considered an impressive success. Rescuing all, plus the coach? Absolutely amazing! The many people involved in the rescue effort at all levels did a miraculous job, and the individuals in particular who risked their own lives truly deserve a very large monument to their bravery, devotion, and skill.
Seconded! Although I didn't post it here, I was reasonably convinced doing a rescue operation while the cave was flooded would be extremely foolhardy, if not outright impossible. It's incredibly heartening to see that a team working together, even under extreme pressure, can still pull off the impossible.

On a rather down note, it would be really nice if politicians the world over did the same thing. It's not that easy, of courseópolitical and economic goals are not nearly as concrete, nor is success as easy to define.
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Old 10th July 2018, 03:35 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post

On a rather down note, it would be really nice if politicians the world over did the same thing. It's not that easy, of courseópolitical and economic goals are not nearly as concrete, nor is success as easy to define.
Politicians the world over cooperating on a shared agenda is one of my worst nightmares.

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Old 10th July 2018, 03:43 PM   #388
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Because Musk-haters HAVE to hate him and anything he does.... its a compulsion with them.

He offers help so they hate him for that.
He doesn't offer help they would hate him for that too.

They just cannot help themselves.

Meanwhile, its just been reported that the 11th boy is out
Not really a Musk fanboy but not a hater either, however, there does seem to be a few sour grapes.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...scue-officials
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Old 10th July 2018, 04:09 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Are all the rescuers and the MD safely out now too? I hope so.

This is absolutely amazing. As it became more and more clear how difficult the rescue would be and the increasing urgency of the situation I became convinced that many of the boys would die in the attempt. I thought that if only two or three died the rescue would have to be considered an impressive success. Rescuing all, plus the coach? Absolutely amazing! The many people involved in the rescue effort at all levels did a miraculous job, and the individuals in particular who risked their own lives truly deserve a very large monument to their bravery, devotion, and skill.

I will find it very difficult to deal with the wave of second-guessing and criticism that has already begun and which will now no-doubt expand. Not just criticism of the coach, and the boys, and their parents. Criticism of the rescuers. I would be surprised if the boys have zero injuries from the rescue: inevitably there will be people who will take the rescuers to task for each laceration and bruise. Inevitably there will be people who will say the rescuers should have performed the rescue earlier. Or later. Or differently. Or the divers wore the wrong color wet suits. What a petty and disturbing side of human nature. And of course the conspiracy theories will arise as idiots go through every picture and press release looking for the slightest contradiction. Indeed the very fact that all the boys were successfully rescued must, to conspiracy lovers, prove that it was a fake.

A hint of what will come can be found in the treatment I've already read of Saman Gunan: he must have been "rusty, or ill-prepared, or done something stupid." Gee- first of all he was risking his life to help strangers and he had significant prior experience. Cave diving is inherently incredibly dangerous. Here were the added pressures of limited time and having many, many people involved, most of whom had never worked together before. Whatever led to Saman Gunan's death, as a human being and as a parent I have only the deepest praise and deepest grief for him. He gave his life trying to help others.
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Old 10th July 2018, 04:47 PM   #390
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They were given anti-anxiety medication, which isn't the same thing as being "sedated".

Quote:
Thai Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha, speaking before the final rescue was completed, said the boys were given an anti-anxiety medication to help with their perilous removal from the cave.

"It's called anxiolytic, something to make them not excited, not stressed," Mr Prayuth said.
Source
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Old 10th July 2018, 04:53 PM   #391
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If I had to be escorted through a maze of underwater twisty, turning passages, all alike, I'd want some *********** anti-anxiety medication too.
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Old 10th July 2018, 05:51 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Not really a Musk fanboy but not a hater either, however, there does seem to be a few sour grapes.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...scue-officials
Yeah, that is typical British gutter-press misrepresentation. Its the sort of thing I would expect from the The Flail...

First, there's the headline....
Elon Musk queries expertise of Thai cave rescue officials
Entrepreneur turns on mission leader who rejected his offer of a submarine

Second, there's the unflattering stock photo of the article's target, intentionally chosen to fit the byline, even though the the photo will not have been taken at the time of the article (a quick check reveals that the photo they used was first published at least as long ago as Mar 14, 2018)

Third, the headline and byline misleads the reader about what the target actually said. Nowhere in the article do they quote the target questioning anyone's experitise or turning on anyone.

Finally, they quote a statement by the target that directly contradicts the headline and byline. The target"...congratulated the team who carried out the operation, which concluded successfully on Tuesday afternoon. 'Great news that they made it out safely. Congratulations to an outstanding rescue team.' "

This is typical British gutter press exaggeration and rubbish. You see it all the time when they report on politicians, sports stars and celebrities. It seems the Guardian is not immune to dishing out this sort of crap either.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:13 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
If I had to be escorted through a maze of underwater twisty, turning passages, all alike, I'd want some *********** anti-anxiety medication too.
And the Frobozz Magic Grue Repellent.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:29 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Could have been a faulty gauge that said a tank was full when it wasn't and he ran out or air in a bad place.

Could be he misjudged that he had enough air to return when he didn't.

Could be a different kind of equipment failure.
Which are all things that it is drilled into you.mercilessly, NOT to do in Seal Traning (the Thai Navy Seal training st closely modeled on that of the US Navy Seals) but still, one small slip up can kill you in this kind of diving. That is a major reason that the selection process for SEAL training to so incredibly tough, and the washout rate so high:to minimaize the chances of that happening. But it will occasionally happen.no matter how tough and througly the training.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:32 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
If I had to be escorted through a maze of underwater twisty, turning passages, all alike, I'd want some *********** anti-anxiety medication too.
Most ridiculous controversy ever. If a drug would make it easier to rescue the kids, and has no dangerous after effects, you would be a fool not to use it.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:43 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
If I had to be escorted through a maze of underwater twisty, turning passages, all alike, I'd want some *********** anti-anxiety medication too.
Plugh!
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Old 10th July 2018, 08:07 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Now that the crisis is resolved happily, I'd like to know more about how Saman Gunan died. Considering everything else that was accomplished here by so many people, it's hard to understand why he's not going home too. "Ran out of air" isn't enough of an explanation for the death of an ex-Navy SEAL who apparently was placing air tanks. Equipment failure? Disorientation? Injury? Why was he apparently working alone? Etc.
He had placed them and was returning. He was ex so perhaps not up to date in training. The conditions were extreme. Experienced cave divers die. They were lucky there was only one death.
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Old 10th July 2018, 08:11 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
If I had to be escorted through a maze of underwater twisty, turning passages, all alike, I'd want some *********** anti-anxiety medication too.
If that's what they had for the boys... go with it.

Me? I'd take Elon's bendy carbon fiber coffin and a general anesthetic.

No way in bloody hell would you get me into a place like that for fun.
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Old 10th July 2018, 08:13 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The conditions were extreme. Experienced cave divers die.
Personally I neither want nor need to know any more detail than this.
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Old 10th July 2018, 09:13 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
No way in bloody hell would you get me into a place like that for fun.
Yep. I don't mind admitting there are only two probable ways you could get me into a cave...

1. Knock me out first

2. Drag me in kicking and screaming
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