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Old 10th July 2018, 10:07 PM   #401
rdaneel
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
I like your attention to detail :-). Get writing at once, the movie companies will be flooded with manuscripts in a month or two.

My own input:

The male main character will be a combination of the three or four key people in the rescue operation, whether it makes sense or not. He will do a lot of dangerous diving and discover the boys, then spend a couple of scenes outside the cave organising the rescue effort and fighting penny pinching bureaucrats for necessary resources. Then he will be back in the caves, almost saving his old pal Saman Gunan. He will drag him to an air pocket, but it's too late. With his last breath Gunan begs our main character to bring ... the... boys... home. Outside the cave again. More shouting at stuffy government people. When they finally do the attempt to bring the boys out its all of them in one big group, of course. They loose time at the pinch point and are almost out of air and loosing courage. Then lights appear ahead in the murk. The lights grow brighter... It's Elon Musk leading a small flotilla of micro submarines! Everybody laughs and high fives.

Musk should be played by Kevin Durand.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The American version:

In which everyone is American, regardless of where in the world the movie takes place. Girls (boys who need to be rescued are not manly enough for American cinema). Cute teenage girls with a pretty female teacher (possibly played by Jessica Chastain), trapped in a cave that somehow does not get them very dirty, except for little smudges of mud that accentuate the cheekbones.

Rescued by macho military guys, aided by uncouth rednecks (coal miners or oil rig roughnecks) who fight the evil government bureaucracy. One of the military guys is the estranged husband/lover of the cute teacher.

Also, there are terrorists, drug smugglers, or the evil sort of environmentalists, or something like that.

The rescue will somehow need to involve shooting things and blowing things up, to the tune of a good Hans Zimmer score.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Where the hell is that damned "cynicism" smiley when I need it !?
Perhaps these people have it.

Kind-hearted movie producers are already in Thailand, sniffing around for movie rights

From the people who brought you "Gods not Dead", in case any of you thought you might be setting the bar to low.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:20 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Nominated!
Good idea. That was a super post from Giordano. I had not thought about all the nasty things people will say - mainly because I do not follow any of the messaging web sites.
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:39 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Politicians the world over cooperating on a shared agenda is one of my worst nightmares.
To eliminate smallpox? Malaria? Starvation? Human trafficking? To reduce climate change? To join in common defense, like NATO? Really? A multi-nation treaty is "cooperating on a shared agenda." You think that's a problem?
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Old 10th July 2018, 10:41 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'd be interested in directing the discovery sequence. Start with a 10-minute scene played out in complete darkness. This is on the 9th day, so everybody is clinging to their last hopes. The oxygen in the cavern is almost completely gone. The kids are whispering their last goodbyes to each other (and their families).

Gradually we become aware of a faint green glow under the water. We're not sure our eyes even register it at first, but no, it is definitely a light. One of the kids says "What's that?" and there is now enough ambient light that we can see the kids sit up curiously. Cut to a blinding bright light as the diver breaks the surface, slowly removes his mask, and we hear a voice say "Is everyone all right?", in English of course.
The great English trait of understatement.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:06 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
....
No way in bloody hell would you get me into a place like that for fun.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep. I don't mind admitting there are only two probable ways you could get me into a cave...

1. Knock me out first

2. Drag me in kicking and screaming
I've been caving once. It was fantastic. Some experienced cavers we met in the youth hostel near the New Zealand Glow Worm Caves took us. I don't think there was any risk of flooding or anything that felt dangerous. There was a small river in parts of the cave. We did some climbing with ropes over short heights.

It was great luck to come across such an experience. They even loaned us coveralls. It was muddy.
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:28 PM   #406
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Apparently after the last Boars were rescued, dozens of divers who were inside the cave to remove equipment were almost trapped themselves when a pump failed.
https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=56495487
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Old 11th July 2018, 12:22 AM   #407
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I get that the equipment is valuable but human lives are more valuable. Maybe they'll be able to retrieve the stuff in the autumn when the water levels fall naturally?
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Old 11th July 2018, 02:00 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I get that the equipment is valuable but human lives are more valuable. Maybe they'll be able to retrieve the stuff in the autumn when the water levels fall naturally?
That would make sense but the equipment may be irreplaceable and/or required in the short term and the perceived risk could have been low.

A number of the people involved seem to run dive schools in Thailand and it would be a shame if their altruism ended up with them being unable to run their businesses until the autumn.

Of course the equipment could have been removed to prevent less able divers from going in and endangering their lives trying to nick it.
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Old 11th July 2018, 02:27 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The great English trait of understatement.
Except that, in the film, it would undoubtedly be English with an American accent.
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Old 11th July 2018, 04:23 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That would make sense but the equipment may be irreplaceable and/or required in the short term and the perceived risk could have been low.

A number of the people involved seem to run dive schools in Thailand and it would be a shame if their altruism ended up with them being unable to run their businesses until the autumn.

Of course the equipment could have been removed to prevent less able divers from going in and endangering their lives trying to nick it.

I can understand why they were trying to retrieve the gear, but apparently they had to abandon the attempt and get the hell out because a pump failed and the water level started to rise rapidly. It seems that the pumps only gave enough of a window to get the people out of the cave where they were trapped and no more. They must be so glad they pushed to get everyone out on day three rather than extending it into a fourth day as I think was originally envisaged.

I think a number of people have lost property in this, from the divers having to abandon several hundred oxygen tanks to the farmer whose land and crops have been ruined by millions of litres of water being pumped over it. I hope the divers can at least get their property back when the caves are safe again, and that the farmer is receiving assistance.
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Old 11th July 2018, 05:50 AM   #411
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There's a diver called Mikko Paasi all over the front pages of Ilta-Sanomat and Ilta-Lehti today, about how he has been diving for over twenty years and had always been a 'dare-devil' into extreme experiences. He has a diving school in Thailand and taught his younger siblings diving. His mother, Outi, is reported as being 'proud' of her son. 'He has always been adventurous and courageous', she says, 'and eager to help others.'

He supposedly volunteered straight away and guided the boys from one chamber to another, throughout the entire duration of the rescue. In between times, he didn't message his brother, Lassi, 'As he wanted to conserve energy for the rescue', said Lassi.

Quote:
The British newspaper The Guardian reported earlier on Wednesday morning how saving the soccer team from the Thai cave was to get a dramatic turn . The cave began to be filled with water at the end of the day, as there were still many rescuers, including divers .

The diver, Mikko Paasi, who was in the operation, commented on the situation for MTV .

- There we were still and a few other Navy Seal inside without tanks, but we just got out of the last airbase, Paasi told MTV .

Paasi did not describe the situation as an incident because the rescuers had minutes to get out .

- But now the third chamber is completely under water .

Anyway, the tight situation went anyway . With other rescuers, a last-minute emergency was even humorous .

- Last night's out . It was laughed that the spirit of the cave would still say, " You got what you wanted, now it's time to leave . "
https://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/20...67097_ul.shtml
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Old 11th July 2018, 05:59 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Me? I'd take Elon's bendy carbon fiber coffin and a general anesthetic.
The Musk rescue submarine? It isn't bendy and it isn't carbon fiber. Have a look...

http://img.deepsnews.com/userfiles/images/7777(449).jpg
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Old 11th July 2018, 05:59 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I wasn't trying to speculate, I was listing common causes. No need to put bizarre ones on the list.
Nothing wrong with speculating as long as it is within reason like yours are. Getting stuck is not bizarre.
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Old 11th July 2018, 07:47 AM   #414
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This Daily Mail article has more details. The full head masks used were on continuous positive pressure (air always being pumped in) and so there would never be a need to voluntarily clear out any water seeping in. The boys were continuously harnessed through the entire rescue. In the dry cavern sections the rescuers had set up "high line" rope and pulley systems so that the boys were moved like packages and did not walk or climb anywhere.

It seems that they were bundled and transported as if they were unconscious and needed manual transport at all times.

No need for any swimming or diving abilities. You don't even need to walk.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-mission.html
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Old 11th July 2018, 08:03 AM   #415
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The BBC's graphic was highly misleading. It showed a child swimming freely (and expertly) with flippers, with a diver carrying his oxygen tank swimming ahead and another swimming behind. They later modified it to show the child much closer (alongside) the first diver, I think possibly because people had been pointing out that it was extremely wrong, but it was still misleading.

I don't understand editors who commission diagrams from people who don't have the first idea about how something actually is, and then publish the resulting fantasy art as information to readers. It reminds me of many of the alleged floor plans of Oscar Pistorius's en-suite bedroom layout, which were way off beam and led to much erroneous speculation about what had happened. I think the Fail was one of the worst offenders on that occasion. Get it right or don't present a diagram.
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:12 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The BBC's graphic was highly misleading. It showed a child swimming freely (and expertly) with flippers, with a diver carrying his oxygen tank swimming ahead and another swimming behind. They later modified it to show the child much closer (alongside) the first diver, I think possibly because people had been pointing out that it was extremely wrong, but it was still misleading.
Maybe the idea was just to convey to viewers that each kid was accompanied by two divers, one of which carried the oxygen tank.
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:15 AM   #417
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More information about the one English-speaking boy:

Quote:
Born state-less in Myanmar, and raised by Christian teachers in Thailand, Adul Sam-on's unflinching politeness and startling ability to speak English is capturing hearts.

Adul - who also speaks Thai, Burmese, and Chinese - is being praised for his English skills in a country where less than a third of the population speaks the language.

He was the only one able to communicate with the British divers that discovered the boys on July 2.

'What day is it?' he shouted, telling the divers they were hungry, in footage broadcast around the world after the agonising search for the boys.
The poor little mite is stateless.

Quote:
Born in Myanmar's self-governing Wa State, he left his family behind aged seven to get a better education in northern Thailand, but his parents still visit him at the Christian Church where he's been taken in.

With no birth certificate, no ID card and no passport, Adul cannot legally marry, get a job or bank account, travel, own property or vote, but he refuses to let his status hold him back.

The passionate footballer also loves to play the piano and guitar, and is an accomplished student too.
His ordeal in the cave notwithstanding, I predict he will go far.
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:15 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The Musk rescue submarine? It isn't bendy and it isn't carbon fiber. Have a look...

http://img.deepsnews.com/userfiles/images/7777(449).jpg
I just get this mental image of that thing getting hopelessly wedged in a bend of the cave. And, I guess the rescuers were expected to haul that thing up and down the dry climbing-sections? It's really no wonder they took a look at it and said "thanks but nah".
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:28 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Maybe the idea was just to convey to viewers that each kid was accompanied by two divers, one of which carried the oxygen tank.

These words are entirely adequate in themselves for conveying that information. The graphic showed the child swimming expertly under his own power through the tunnels. That conveyed information which was completely wrong.
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:31 AM   #420
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Do you have a link to say an image of the graphic? I'd like to see what you mean by "expertly swimming".
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:32 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
These words are entirely adequate in themselves for conveying that information. The graphic showed the child swimming expertly under his own power through the tunnels. That conveyed information which was completely wrong.
It's a drawing, a cartoon. How the hell did you determine this?
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:42 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Do you have a link to say an image of the graphic? I'd like to see what you mean by "expertly swimming".

It's shown in post 234 upthread.

When I saw the drawing I was going to question the detail of the child wearing fins. Unless you're trained and in shape for diving, you can't usefully kick with fins (or even without them) for more than a very few minutes, after which they'd be a hindrance. I figured that detail was artistic license (the kids did wear wetsuits, and fins are a part of the popular image of what a diving wetsuit looks like) and not worth bothering to try to confirm or correct.

At the same time, I took the distance shown between the lead diver and the kid at face value, because it seemed to help explain how the lead diver would get the air tanks through tight spaces without having to turn around. But of course there are other considerations that make a closer "carry" more plausible.

ETA: And to me the graphic does convey "expertly swimming" or at least being in a specific trained position for gliding under tow. The legs and fins are in a plausible kicking position with the knees slightly bent and the feet pointed (can't prove he's actually kicking in a static image, of course, but they're drawn correctly for being in mid kick), the arms are extended, the hands are held flat with the wrists flexed, and the connecting line to the lead diver is slack. I took all that as artistic license too.
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:32 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The poor little mite is stateless.
Several of them are stateless, including the coach.

Which means they won't be accepting the invitations they've been getting from abroad, as they can't get passports.
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Old 11th July 2018, 11:33 AM   #424
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Post 234 isn't the graphic I was talking about. This link shows the one I meant.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experi...0c633ae599.png

They later altered it a bit to this one, which now has "child held close to diver", but then there's an extra bit showing the child actually involved in manoeuvering an air bottle through a tight space.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experi...8d387135c4.png

I wish they wouldn't make stuff up like this, it's completely misleading.
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Old 11th July 2018, 11:37 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Several of them are stateless, including the coach.

Which means they won't be accepting the invitations they've been getting from abroad, as they can't get passports.

Any bets on that changing in the near future?
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Old 11th July 2018, 11:40 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Except that, in the film, it would undoubtedly be English with an American accent.
If it was an American film yes, same way it would be Thai if it was a Thai film, Korean if it was a Korean film, etc.

Stop trying to pretend this isn't done because it sells to the local audience. And stop insinuating it is a white north American thing is a film thing and a locally varied one.

Watch a few asain films and check out the white folks. By and large they won't be people who would pass the sniff test at a Skrewdriver show.
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Old 11th July 2018, 12:54 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
If it was an American film yes, same way it would be Thai if it was a Thai film, Korean if it was a Korean film, etc.

Stop trying to pretend this isn't done because it sells to the local audience. And stop insinuating it is a white north American thing is a film thing and a locally varied one.

Watch a few asain films and check out the white folks. By and large they won't be people who would pass the sniff test at a Skrewdriver show.
Iĺm not pretending anything, we were discussing the Hollywood version of story. I was pointing out that the character would be American, not English as Vixen was suggesting.
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Old 11th July 2018, 07:31 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Post 234 isn't the graphic I was talking about. This link shows the one I meant.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experi...0c633ae599.png

They later altered it a bit to this one, which now has "child held close to diver", but then there's an extra bit showing the child actually involved in manoeuvering an air bottle through a tight space.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experi...8d387135c4.png

I wish they wouldn't make stuff up like this, it's completely misleading.

Okay, I had the wrong diagram, but the first BBC one is very similar to the Thai one, in depicting the boy wearing fins and kicking with feet extended. It shows a shorter tether line than the Thai version, but also shows the boy's arms performing a swimming stroke. So both images misleadingly convey independent swimming.

The second one of the boy handling the bottle... that's just bizarre. Did the lead diver turn around and hand the bottle to the boy before going through the constriction? Or did he just drop the bottle and leave it behind for the boy to pick up? After which the boy, while his butt is still in the constriction, is now lifting the bottle fully out of the water with one hand (saving the lead diver the trouble of reaching down)?

Being good at drawing things, good at explaining things, and good at understanding the things being explained in the first place based on the limited and possibly inaccurate information, are all separate skills. I'm not surprised that we often see only two out of the three at a time in evidence. (Now don't be sad, says Meat Loaf. 'Cause two out of three ain't bad.) I'd be no better, because I can't draw worth a damn.
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Old 11th July 2018, 08:49 PM   #429
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:12 PM   #430
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Well hold your horses, because video has been released of the rescue, clearly showing the suspended stretcher system that was used to carry the boys through the cave.
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:35 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Well hold your horses, because video has been released of the rescue, clearly showing the suspended stretcher system that was used to carry the boys through the cave.
Yes, the "put 'em to sleep" narrative is looking more accurate. It explains why so many involved in the rescue have been calling an anesthesiologist the MVP.

In the version I read here, one of the divers said that the boys were nearly asleep throughout and that one diver was assigned to monitoring their breathing, but that they could see they were looking around and might wiggle their fingers or move slightly.

(Generally, when the Generals say it was a "nerve tonic", you won't go far wrong if you think "Horse Tranquilizer".)


ETA: The story of them passing through "while asleep" has been taken down here but it seems to originate with AFP about fifteen hours ago.
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:50 PM   #432
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There no chance that they only carried the boys on stretchers for the walking parts to conserve their strength and energy for the swimming parts?
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:52 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There no chance that they only carried the boys on stretchers for the walking parts to conserve their strength and energy for the swimming parts?
The video shows them carrying the stretchers in places that could easily be walked.
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Old 12th July 2018, 01:45 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There no chance that they only carried the boys on stretchers for the walking parts to conserve their strength and energy for the swimming parts?

No chance at all. If they didn't have the strength to walk through the easy bits then they were in no condition to swim. Also, do you imagine they were swimming in the submerged passages and then the rescuers trussed them up like chickens just to carry them through the easy parts?
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Old 12th July 2018, 01:53 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yes, the "put 'em to sleep" narrative is looking more accurate. It explains why so many involved in the rescue have been calling an anesthesiologist the MVP.

In the version I read here, one of the divers said that the boys were nearly asleep throughout and that one diver was assigned to monitoring their breathing, but that they could see they were looking around and might wiggle their fingers or move slightly.

(Generally, when the Generals say it was a "nerve tonic", you won't go far wrong if you think "Horse Tranquilizer".)

ETA: The story of them passing through "while asleep" has been taken down here but it seems to originate with AFP about fifteen hours ago.

It seems to me that having the children heavily sedated and passing them through essentially as cargo was the way to go. Ketamine might be a suitable drug, I'm not sure - my anaesthesia days were long ago and even then they did things differently with human patients. I just remember a video they showed us to demonstrate how ketamine (a cat anaesthetic) is used in human medicine.

It was all very dangerous and I wouldn't have liked to have been the anaesthetist with the job of getting the kids to just the right level where they wouldn't move much, wouldn't throw a panic, wouldn't really remember the journey but would still keep breathing reliably and with normal cardiac function and blood pressure. And with only minimal opportunity for monitoring by a lay person. But that's why I'm not a consultant anaesthetist.

I think the dangers of light anaesthesia/deep tranquillisation would have been far less than the dangers of trying to swim these boys out. This has been a superbly conceived and organised operation and everyone involved deserves the highest credit.
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Old 12th July 2018, 02:21 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It seems to me that having the children heavily sedated and passing them through essentially as cargo was the way to go. Ketamine might be a suitable drug, I'm not sure - my anaesthesia days were long ago and even then they did things differently with human patients. I just remember a video they showed us to demonstrate how ketamine (a cat anaesthetic) is used in human medicine.

It was all very dangerous and I wouldn't have liked to have been the anaesthetist with the job of getting the kids to just the right level where they wouldn't move much, wouldn't throw a panic, wouldn't really remember the journey but would still keep breathing reliably and with normal cardiac function and blood pressure. And with only minimal opportunity for monitoring by a lay person. But that's why I'm not a consultant anaesthetist.

I think the dangers of light anaesthesia/deep tranquillisation would have been far less than the dangers of trying to swim these boys out. This has been a superbly conceived and organised operation and everyone involved deserves the highest credit.
This may also go a long way to explaining their 10:30 to 11:00 a.m. departure each active day. Active Thais, particularly Thai military are up at 5:30 or 6:00, latest. Making sure the kids were sedated but stable would be a tense time, I'm sure. I don't pretend to know anything about anesthetics. Since they were going to be en route for five or six hours, it'd have to be something rather strong, I gather.
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Old 12th July 2018, 01:12 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by rdaneel View Post
Perhaps these people have it.

Kind-hearted movie producers are already in Thailand, sniffing around for movie rights

From the people who brought you "Gods not Dead", in case any of you thought you might be setting the bar to low.
You also have a film company called "Ivanhoe Pictures" (believe it or not a Chinese film company) planning a film on the topic...and in the first line of their tweet screaming they will not let Hollywood "white out" this story.
Nice. Let's play the Race Card to hide the fact we are planning a cheap, quicky exploitation film. Not much to choose between the two, really.

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Old 12th July 2018, 03:07 PM   #438
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Can't find it now, but I just today read an established US Christian oriented studio is moving forward with a rather large budget ($30-$60MM) stab at this. Not to have a "christian" rewrite (thankfully) but an "inspirational" take on it. There's some Thai connection to the American owner/producer... IIRC, he lives there.

If I could recall their previous "known" christian angle film that was mentioned, I'd be able to search out their name... sadly I don't. Have at it Google sleuths.
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Old 12th July 2018, 03:15 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
an "inspirational" take on it.
"We love that cave. It saved our lives. If that cave had not presented us with a dirty rocky shelf to sit on then we would have all drowned. The SEALs wouldn't have been able to rescue us if it weren't for that cave. We love that cave."
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Old 12th July 2018, 03:25 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
"We love that cave. It saved our lives. If that cave had not presented us with a dirty rocky shelf to sit on then we would have all drowned. The SEALs wouldn't have been able to rescue us if it weren't for that cave. We love that cave."
Probably not the angle they'll be going for.
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