[Ed] Thai Boys Found in Cave After NINE Days. - Page 5

cullennz · 5th July 2018, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

They widened that part so the Seals could get through with their equipment on. That won't be the problem. The problem will be that the boys have to go through on their own as it's not wide enough for the diver/boy teams. The kids will be on pushme/pullyou tethers but it's dark, uneven and narrow and they just don't have the skills to cope with that, yet. The concern is that even an experienced diver who knocks his mask or tank off against a jagged outcrop is likely to panic. With the kids it's almost a guarantee.

??

Sorry

I could be wrong, but thought from interviews they widened it enough to get through but not without taking gear off.

Assumably we are talking hand tools and the diagram still says so

alfaniner · 5th July 2018, 06:05 AM

I can think of few things more terrifying than being trapped underwater in the dark.

Foolmewunz · 5th July 2018, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by cullennz

??

Sorry

I could be wrong, but thought from interviews they widened it enough to get through but not without taking gear off.

Assumably we are talking hand tools and the diagram still says so

I have no idea what you're saying - it's the double negative in the first full sentence. Or the final incomplete one? Perhaps you could re-phrase your post.

They widened a completely different point from the one mentioned in that cutaway map. They widened it, as they said at the time, so that the divers could pass through wearing their scuba tanks. They did have some early problems but they carried in all sorts of stuff past that point long ago. They have a marshaling area where the Evening Standard says they couldn't get through, so wherever they got that information, it's wrong. Personally, I think they just put the label in the wrong place.

Look further up the route towards the boys. See the "Cave Under 16 Feet of Water"? That's the traverse we're discussing.
*Is that the London Evening Standard? I tried to find the article to see their source, but can't locate it. Can you provide a link. They're right up there with the Daily Mail in terms of reliability.

LTC8K6 · 5th July 2018, 07:03 AM

In Hollywood they use a rope in these situations, so that you just have to pull yourself along the line through the water and out to safety.

JoeMorgue · 5th July 2018, 07:35 AM

Medical Assessment: Coach and boys not well enough to attempt escape.

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/asia/...ntl/index.html

Quote:

A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a cave in Northern Thailand has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday, according to a member of the Thai Navy Seals who is not authorized to speak to the media. The Seals have also started to pump oxygen into the chamber.

Separately, a new doctor's report highlighted that two of the boys and the coach were suffering with exhaustion from malnutrition.

William Parcher · 5th July 2018, 08:39 AM

I'm staying with my original speculation that the boys won't be diving out of the cave. I know that equipment donations are happening and some training is happening - but they won't dive out.

Cleon · 5th July 2018, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

I'm staying with my original speculation that the boys won't be diving out of the cave. I know that equipment donations are happening and some training is happening - but they won't dive out.

You're probably right, but at the very least it'll give the kids something to focus on while the rescuers look at different solutions.

Trebuchet · 5th July 2018, 09:14 AM

The Teevee news this morning suggested they might chip away at the ceilings to enable them to wade out chin deep.

Bob001 · 5th July 2018, 09:18 AM

An update from a reporter on the scene. Another kid from the team almost went with the others, but his Mom picked him up right after practice.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...?noredirect=on

Bob001 · 5th July 2018, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

You're probably right, but at the very least it'll give the kids something to focus on while the rescuers look at different solutions.

It also prepares them to act if the cave starts to fill and they have no other choice.

William Parcher · 5th July 2018, 09:23 AM

Daily Mail reports that the boys have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and child voices. They think the sounds are coming from some opening to the surface and people are looking for the opening. But this seems like it could be delusions or auditory hallucinations or just made up tales.

William Parcher · 5th July 2018, 09:40 AM

There's also a report that some of the pumps were mistakenly pumping water into the cave instead of out. Not sure if confirmed.

Two boys and the coach have exhaustion due to malnutrition.

CNN says the roundtrip to visit the boys takes 11 hours. The phone connection failed because the cable fell into the water.

William Parcher · 5th July 2018, 09:54 AM

I haven't read anything about what is deeper into that cave system. I read they are about 3 miles into a 7 mile long system. Could conditions be better further in? If waters rise dangerously could it be better further in?

Segnosaur · 5th July 2018, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Daily Mail reports that the boys have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and child voices. They think the sounds are coming from some opening to the surface and people are looking for the opening. But this seems like it could be delusions or auditory hallucinations or just made up tales.

Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.)

Bob001 · 5th July 2018, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.)

Or, gee, how 'bout a giant bonfire? They could see if the smoke gets out.

Segnosaur · 5th July 2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Quote:

Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.)

Or, gee, how 'bout a giant bonfire? They could see if the smoke gets out.

Don't be silly. Its far to wet to start a bonfire. Perhaps some tear gas would work.

Ok, I don't really expect them to use anything like that, but it was a serious question about whether there is a reasonable way to trace air flow in a cave to see if there is an outlet to the outside. (I remember seeing a documentary where they used special dyes to trace water flow. I thought they may use the same methodology to trace air flow.)

crescent · 5th July 2018, 10:56 AM

crescent's Pie-in-the-sky idea Number 1:

Lay a grid of microphones on the surface above where the kids are, say a few hundred meters on each side, one microphone every ten meters or so.

Make very loud noises in the cave (give the kids hearing protection). Do it electronically, at specific wavelengths.

See which mikes pic it up. Look for the right wavelengths as a way of filtering out ambient sounds.

Focus search effort on the places where the mikes pick up the sound the loudest, to look for currently undiscovered openings.

crescent's pie-in-the-sky idea #2:
Ground penetrating radar, to pick up voids closer to the surface, with hope that those will lead further down to the kids.

I have always seen ground penetrating radar done with sleds on skids. Is there an aerial equivalent?

crescent's pie-in-the-sky idea #3:
Heat the air in the cave. Use infrared imagery in the cool of the night to look for warm air coming out. Try to time it with weather forecasts to coincide with low-pressure systems.

alfaniner · 5th July 2018, 10:56 AM

Well, they started all this as an initiation rite. I'd say they're now all in their own very exclusive club.

cullennz · 5th July 2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I have no idea what you're saying - it's the double negative in the first full sentence. Or the final incomplete one? Perhaps you could re-phrase your post.

They widened a completely different point from the one mentioned in that cutaway map. They widened it, as they said at the time, so that the divers could pass through wearing their scuba tanks. They did have some early problems but they carried in all sorts of stuff past that point long ago. They have a marshaling area where the Evening Standard says they couldn't get through, so wherever they got that information, it's wrong. Personally, I think they just put the label in the wrong place.

Look further up the route towards the boys. See the "Cave Under 16 Feet of Water"? That's the traverse we're discussing.
*Is that the London Evening Standard? I tried to find the article to see their source, but can't locate it. Can you provide a link. They're right up there with the Daily Mail in terms of reliability.

How do you get double negative

It's wide enough to get through, but you have to take your gear off to do it

I could add and hold it in front of you but that would be stating the bleeding obvious.

Foolmewunz · 5th July 2018, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by cullennz

How do you get double negative

It's wide enough to get through, but you have to take your gear off to do it

I could add and hold it in front of you but that would be stating the bleeding obvious.

It is wide enough to pass through with gear on. Period. They widened it.

It is NOT wide enough for a Seal and a kid to do together. Stop reading gossip rags. Do you not understand that the map you posted is wrong? The "pinch point" they are pointing to is not there. It is in the deep-dive location.

Divers have gone through with tanks on!!! End of story. They do not have to remove their scuba gear.

I posted this before. I referred you to it. The source is Thailand. I trust it far more than the crap map you posted because IT AGREES WITH ALL THE COMMENTARY FROM THE PROFESSIONALS ON THE SCENE.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...y-out-for-boys

Foolmewunz · 5th July 2018, 07:57 PM

Our concern here is that the PM and his dimwitted #2 now have the word from The King, who as we all know is appointed by the Buddha and can do no wrong.

The King has said "get them out as quickly as possible". Thai doesn't have a whole lot of nuance, but they could weasel if they say "well, waiting two weeks until they are healthy is "as soon as possible, your majesty". But they will take it, I fear, as marching orders.

On the human foibles front, the arguments have started as to whether they're "boys will be boys" or "irresponsible hooligans", with a couple of conspiracy weirdos offering up that they are under the spell of an evil shaman who cursed the coach because of a dispute over rice acreage with his grandparents. (Hey, we're as crazy as American conspiradroids!)

On the positive side, a bunch of local farmers are complaining because while the politicians are posturing, the army enlisted local volunteers and dammed up a couple of streams that feed the underground chambers. The water is actually going down. That water is flooding the farmers' land. The rice farms love it. Others? Not so much.

The amount of rainfall was not as bad as the doomsayers had warned about. The pumping is working, but not terribly rapidly and there's always the threat of more rain.

Bob001 · 5th July 2018, 08:05 PM

Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live

Foolmewunz · 5th July 2018, 08:10 PM

Our concern here is that the PM and his dimwitted #2 now have the word from The King, who as we all know is appointed by the Buddha and can do no wrong.

The King has said "get them out as quickly as possible". Thai doesn't have a whole lot of nuance, but they could weasel if they say "well, waiting two weeks until they are healthy is "as soon as possible, your majesty". But they will take it, I fear, as marching orders.

On the human foibles front, the arguments have started as to whether they're "boys will be boys" or "irresponsible hooligans", with a couple of conspiracy weirdos offering up that they are under the spell of an evil shaman who cursed the coach because of a dispute over rice acreage with his grandparents. (Hey, we're as crazy as American conspiradroids!)

On the positive side, a bunch of local farmers are complaining because while the politicians are posturing, the army enlisted local volunteers and dammed up a couple of streams that feed the underground chambers. The water is actually going down. That water is flooding the farmers' land. The rice farms love it. Others? Not so much.

The amount of rainfall was not as bad as the doomsayers had warned about. The pumping is working, but not terribly rapidly and there's always the threat of more rain.

Aaaaaand..... while I was typing this..... news is out that a Seal died from lack of oxygen, but not clear which section of the caves he was in.

Foolmewunz · 5th July 2018, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live

Yeah, I was flipping channels and trying to understand the news as my Thai ain't that great. (I was looking to figure out where the Evening Standard got the crap information on their map, while typing my post.)

cullennz · 5th July 2018, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live

Just heard

Far out

Bob001 · 5th July 2018, 10:04 PM

Latest NY Times report:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/04/w...e-updates.html

Octavo · 6th July 2018, 12:39 AM

I've done some scuba, including swimming through a coral arch in near perfect visibility and even with the arch being wide enough for 4 or 5 divers at a time, that rather tame experience was enough to have my respiration rate climb massively, depleting my supply early.

These kids are going to need rebreathers, because I certainly wouldn't want to have to change cylinders at depth with 0 vis. That would REALLY suck.

zooterkin · 6th July 2018, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Here's an article with a map (everyone might like this, actually) with the "Slope".

[Top Gear]Racist![/Top Gear]

a_unique_person · 6th July 2018, 05:40 AM

Five or so hour dive one way. Killer.

Octavo · 6th July 2018, 06:16 AM

SpaceX and The Boring Company (aka Musk Industries) representatives are flying to Thailand to offer aid.

Musk has been tweeting about various potential rescue plans and appears now to be offering his engineers to assist.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bor...mpression=true

sphenisc · 6th July 2018, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

And we don't have otters, nor beavers in Thailand...

"The Asian small-clawed otter has a large distribution range from India in South Asia through Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, and Indonesia"

autumn1971 · 6th July 2018, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by sphenisc

"The Asian small-clawed otter has a large distribution range from India in South Asia through Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, and Indonesia"

Well, that's not a true otter...

Meadmaker · 6th July 2018, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live

So much for the feel-good story element.

zooterkin · 6th July 2018, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

So much for the feel-good story element.

Yes, underlines just how much risk there may still be in any rescue attempt.

Elagabalus · 6th July 2018, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

So much for the feel-good story element.

Looks like he was a volunteer (retired military diver). I get the feeling that everything is a bit disorganized. Perhaps the Thai military should step in and enforce stricter protocols and procedures wrt. who's doing what and where and making sure participants/divers have past some sort of inspection before entering the cave.

Bob001 · 6th July 2018, 03:40 PM

Latest report is that authorities think they're running out of time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/w...ue-divers.html

Cleon · 6th July 2018, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by autumn1971

Well, that's not a true otter...

Don't talk like that. It would be an otter shame.

Minoosh · 6th July 2018, 10:02 PM

If would-be rescuers can pinpoint a route, mitigate risks and work quickly, a drilling-down seems like a plausible alternative vs. all of the risks associated with escorting out non-divers who are also non-swimmers.

It's messed up either way.

I would not want to be the adult who put these children at such risk. I'm sure the coach is telling himself the same thing, but really, someone should have known better, and it's NOT the teen-tween-age boys.

Sideroxylon · 7th July 2018, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

If would-be rescuers can pinpoint a route, mitigate risks and work quickly, a drilling-down seems like a plausible alternative vs. all of the risks associated with escorting out non-divers who are also non-swimmers.

It's messed up either way.

I would not want to be the adult who put these children at such risk. I'm sure the coach is telling himself the same thing, but really, someone should have known better, and it's NOT the teen-tween-age boys.

Getting equipment to a mountain side location with no roads and covered in tropical vegetation is a problem.

Sherkeu · 7th July 2018, 01:52 AM

Elon tweeted an update on what they are building.

Quote:

Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try. Also building an inflatable tube with airlocks. Less likely to work, given tricky contours, but great if it does.

Previous tweets said they were thinking double-walled kevlar pod with its own air supply. Same kevlar material for the tube. He is working through Mu Space, a Thai company.
Will Thailand military wait for this?

Maybe they have diverted/plugged the rain water enough now that it buys them more time?

5th July 2018, 05:04 AM	#161
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 13,992	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz They widened that part so the Seals could get through with their equipment on. That won't be the problem. The problem will be that the boys have to go through on their own as it's not wide enough for the diver/boy teams. The kids will be on pushme/pullyou tethers but it's dark, uneven and narrow and they just don't have the skills to cope with that, yet. The concern is that even an experienced diver who knocks his mask or tank off against a jagged outcrop is likely to panic. With the kids it's almost a guarantee. ?? Sorry I could be wrong, but thought from interviews they widened it enough to get through but not without taking gear off. Assumably we are talking hand tools and the diagram still says so
	__________________ I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 Last edited by cullennz; 5th July 2018 at 05:05 AM.

5th July 2018, 06:05 AM	#162
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 18,718	I can think of few things more terrifying than being trapped underwater in the dark.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

5th July 2018, 06:05 AM	#163
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,144	Originally Posted by cullennz ?? Sorry I could be wrong, but thought from interviews they widened it enough to get through but not without taking gear off. Assumably we are talking hand tools and the diagram still says so I have no idea what you're saying - it's the double negative in the first full sentence. Or the final incomplete one? Perhaps you could re-phrase your post. They widened a completely different point from the one mentioned in that cutaway map. They widened it, as they said at the time, so that the divers could pass through wearing their scuba tanks. They did have some early problems but they carried in all sorts of stuff past that point long ago. They have a marshaling area where the Evening Standard says they couldn't get through, so wherever they got that information, it's wrong. Personally, I think they just put the label in the wrong place. Look further up the route towards the boys. See the "Cave Under 16 Feet of Water"? That's the traverse we're discussing. *Is that the London Evening Standard? I tried to find the article to see their source, but can't locate it. Can you provide a link. They're right up there with the Daily Mail in terms of reliability.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

5th July 2018, 07:03 AM	#164
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 20,425	In Hollywood they use a rope in these situations, so that you just have to pull yourself along the line through the water and out to safety.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

5th July 2018, 07:35 AM	#165
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 14,025	Medical Assessment: Coach and boys not well enough to attempt escape. CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/asia/...ntl/index.html Quote: A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a cave in Northern Thailand has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday, according to a member of the Thai Navy Seals who is not authorized to speak to the media. The Seals have also started to pump oxygen into the chamber. Separately, a new doctor's report highlighted that two of the boys and the coach were suffering with exhaustion from malnutrition.
	__________________ "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal

5th July 2018, 08:39 AM	#166
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 20,844	I'm staying with my original speculation that the boys won't be diving out of the cave. I know that equipment donations are happening and some training is happening - but they won't dive out.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

5th July 2018, 08:59 AM	#167
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,659	Originally Posted by William Parcher I'm staying with my original speculation that the boys won't be diving out of the cave. I know that equipment donations are happening and some training is happening - but they won't dive out. You're probably right, but at the very least it'll give the kids something to focus on while the rescuers look at different solutions.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

5th July 2018, 09:14 AM	#168
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 18,744	The Teevee news this morning suggested they might chip away at the ceilings to enable them to wade out chin deep.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

5th July 2018, 09:18 AM	#169
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940	An update from a reporter on the scene. Another kid from the team almost went with the others, but his Mom picked him up right after practice. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...?noredirect=on
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940

5th July 2018, 09:19 AM	#170
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940	Originally Posted by Cleon You're probably right, but at the very least it'll give the kids something to focus on while the rescuers look at different solutions. It also prepares them to act if the cave starts to fill and they have no other choice.
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940

5th July 2018, 09:23 AM	#171
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 20,844	Daily Mail reports that the boys have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and child voices. They think the sounds are coming from some opening to the surface and people are looking for the opening. But this seems like it could be delusions or auditory hallucinations or just made up tales.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

5th July 2018, 09:40 AM	#172
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 20,844	There's also a report that some of the pumps were mistakenly pumping water into the cave instead of out. Not sure if confirmed. Two boys and the coach have exhaustion due to malnutrition. CNN says the roundtrip to visit the boys takes 11 hours. The phone connection failed because the cable fell into the water.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

5th July 2018, 09:54 AM	#173
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 20,844	I haven't read anything about what is deeper into that cave system. I read they are about 3 miles into a 7 mile long system. Could conditions be better further in? If waters rise dangerously could it be better further in?
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

5th July 2018, 10:05 AM	#174
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,716	Originally Posted by William Parcher Daily Mail reports that the boys have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and child voices. They think the sounds are coming from some opening to the surface and people are looking for the opening. But this seems like it could be delusions or auditory hallucinations or just made up tales. Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

5th July 2018, 10:25 AM	#175
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.) Or, gee, how 'bout a giant bonfire? They could see if the smoke gets out.
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940

5th July 2018, 10:37 AM	#176
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,716	Originally Posted by Bob001 Quote: Couldn't they release some gas in the cave and then see if there are any traces found on the surface? Perhaps something mildly radioactive. (And it may have the side benefit of giving the children super powers.) Or, gee, how 'bout a giant bonfire? They could see if the smoke gets out. Don't be silly. Its far to wet to start a bonfire. Perhaps some tear gas would work. Ok, I don't really expect them to use anything like that, but it was a serious question about whether there is a reasonable way to trace air flow in a cave to see if there is an outlet to the outside. (I remember seeing a documentary where they used special dyes to trace water flow. I thought they may use the same methodology to trace air flow.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

5th July 2018, 10:56 AM	#177
crescent Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,745	crescent's Pie-in-the-sky idea Number 1: Lay a grid of microphones on the surface above where the kids are, say a few hundred meters on each side, one microphone every ten meters or so. Make very loud noises in the cave (give the kids hearing protection). Do it electronically, at specific wavelengths. See which mikes pic it up. Look for the right wavelengths as a way of filtering out ambient sounds. Focus search effort on the places where the mikes pick up the sound the loudest, to look for currently undiscovered openings. crescent's pie-in-the-sky idea #2: Ground penetrating radar, to pick up voids closer to the surface, with hope that those will lead further down to the kids. I have always seen ground penetrating radar done with sleds on skids. Is there an aerial equivalent? crescent's pie-in-the-sky idea #3: Heat the air in the cave. Use infrared imagery in the cool of the night to look for warm air coming out. Try to time it with weather forecasts to coincide with low-pressure systems.
crescent Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,745

5th July 2018, 10:56 AM	#178
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 18,718	Well, they started all this as an initiation rite. I'd say they're now all in their own very exclusive club.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

5th July 2018, 11:48 AM	#179
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 13,992	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz I have no idea what you're saying - it's the double negative in the first full sentence. Or the final incomplete one? Perhaps you could re-phrase your post. They widened a completely different point from the one mentioned in that cutaway map. They widened it, as they said at the time, so that the divers could pass through wearing their scuba tanks. They did have some early problems but they carried in all sorts of stuff past that point long ago. They have a marshaling area where the Evening Standard says they couldn't get through, so wherever they got that information, it's wrong. Personally, I think they just put the label in the wrong place. Look further up the route towards the boys. See the "Cave Under 16 Feet of Water"? That's the traverse we're discussing. *Is that the London Evening Standard? I tried to find the article to see their source, but can't locate it. Can you provide a link. They're right up there with the Daily Mail in terms of reliability. How do you get double negative It's wide enough to get through, but you have to take your gear off to do it I could add and hold it in front of you but that would be stating the bleeding obvious.
	__________________ I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 Last edited by cullennz; 5th July 2018 at 12:00 PM.

5th July 2018, 07:34 PM	#180
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,144	Originally Posted by cullennz How do you get double negative It's wide enough to get through, but you have to take your gear off to do it I could add and hold it in front of you but that would be stating the bleeding obvious. It is wide enough to pass through with gear on. Period. They widened it. It is NOT wide enough for a Seal and a kid to do together. Stop reading gossip rags. Do you not understand that the map you posted is wrong? The "pinch point" they are pointing to is not there. It is in the deep-dive location. Divers have gone through with tanks on!!! End of story. They do not have to remove their scuba gear. I posted this before. I referred you to it. The source is Thailand. I trust it far more than the crap map you posted because IT AGREES WITH ALL THE COMMENTARY FROM THE PROFESSIONALS ON THE SCENE. https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...y-out-for-boys
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. Last edited by Foolmewunz; 5th July 2018 at 07:39 PM.

5th July 2018, 07:57 PM	#181
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,144	Our concern here is that the PM and his dimwitted #2 now have the word from The King, who as we all know is appointed by the Buddha and can do no wrong. The King has said "get them out as quickly as possible". Thai doesn't have a whole lot of nuance, but they could weasel if they say "well, waiting two weeks until they are healthy is "as soon as possible, your majesty". But they will take it, I fear, as marching orders. On the human foibles front, the arguments have started as to whether they're "boys will be boys" or "irresponsible hooligans", with a couple of conspiracy weirdos offering up that they are under the spell of an evil shaman who cursed the coach because of a dispute over rice acreage with his grandparents. (Hey, we're as crazy as American conspiradroids!) On the positive side, a bunch of local farmers are complaining because while the politicians are posturing, the army enlisted local volunteers and dammed up a couple of streams that feed the underground chambers. The water is actually going down. That water is flooding the farmers' land. The rice farms love it. Others? Not so much. The amount of rainfall was not as bad as the doomsayers had warned about. The pumping is working, but not terribly rapidly and there's always the threat of more rain.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

5th July 2018, 08:05 PM	#182
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940	Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids. https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940

5th July 2018, 08:10 PM	#183
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,144	Our concern here is that the PM and his dimwitted #2 now have the word from The King, who as we all know is appointed by the Buddha and can do no wrong. The King has said "get them out as quickly as possible". Thai doesn't have a whole lot of nuance, but they could weasel if they say "well, waiting two weeks until they are healthy is "as soon as possible, your majesty". But they will take it, I fear, as marching orders. On the human foibles front, the arguments have started as to whether they're "boys will be boys" or "irresponsible hooligans", with a couple of conspiracy weirdos offering up that they are under the spell of an evil shaman who cursed the coach because of a dispute over rice acreage with his grandparents. (Hey, we're as crazy as American conspiradroids!) On the positive side, a bunch of local farmers are complaining because while the politicians are posturing, the army enlisted local volunteers and dammed up a couple of streams that feed the underground chambers. The water is actually going down. That water is flooding the farmers' land. The rice farms love it. Others? Not so much. The amount of rainfall was not as bad as the doomsayers had warned about. The pumping is working, but not terribly rapidly and there's always the threat of more rain. Aaaaaand..... while I was typing this..... news is out that a Seal died from lack of oxygen, but not clear which section of the caves he was in.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

5th July 2018, 08:13 PM	#184
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,144	Originally Posted by Bob001 Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids. https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live Yeah, I was flipping channels and trying to understand the news as my Thai ain't that great. (I was looking to figure out where the Evening Standard got the crap information on their map, while typing my post.)
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

5th July 2018, 09:32 PM	#185
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 13,992	Originally Posted by Bob001 Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids. https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live Just heard Far out
	__________________ I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

5th July 2018, 10:04 PM	#186
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940	Latest NY Times report: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/04/w...e-updates.html
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,940

6th July 2018, 12:39 AM	#187
Octavo Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,485	I've done some scuba, including swimming through a coral arch in near perfect visibility and even with the arch being wide enough for 4 or 5 divers at a time, that rather tame experience was enough to have my respiration rate climb massively, depleting my supply early. These kids are going to need rebreathers, because I certainly wouldn't want to have to change cylinders at depth with 0 vis. That would REALLY suck.
	__________________ This signature is intended to imitate people.

6th July 2018, 12:56 AM	#188
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Deputy Admin Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 41,361	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Here's an article with a map (everyone might like this, actually) with the "Slope". [Top Gear]Racist![/Top Gear]
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

6th July 2018, 05:40 AM	#189
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 39,130	Five or so hour dive one way. Killer.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

6th July 2018, 06:16 AM	#190
Octavo Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,485	SpaceX and The Boring Company (aka Musk Industries) representatives are flying to Thailand to offer aid. Musk has been tweeting about various potential rescue plans and appears now to be offering his engineers to assist. https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bor...mpression=true
	__________________ This signature is intended to imitate people.

6th July 2018, 06:29 AM	#191
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,726	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz And we don't have otters, nor beavers in Thailand... "The Asian small-clawed otter has a large distribution range from India in South Asia through Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, and Indonesia"
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,726	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

6th July 2018, 07:46 AM	#192
autumn1971 Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,460	Originally Posted by sphenisc "The Asian small-clawed otter has a large distribution range from India in South Asia through Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, and Indonesia" Well, that's not a true otter...
	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

6th July 2018, 08:01 AM	#193
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 18,349	Originally Posted by Bob001 Apparently a SEAL diver helping with the efforts ran out of air and died. Not a good sign for the kids. https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-decision-live So much for the feel-good story element.

6th July 2018, 08:52 AM	#194
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Deputy Admin Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 41,361	Originally Posted by Meadmaker So much for the feel-good story element. Yes, underlines just how much risk there may still be in any rescue attempt.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

6th July 2018, 09:08 AM	#195
Elagabalus Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 3,358	Originally Posted by Meadmaker So much for the feel-good story element. Looks like he was a volunteer (retired military diver). I get the feeling that everything is a bit disorganized. Perhaps the Thai military should step in and enforce stricter protocols and procedures wrt. who's doing what and where and making sure participants/divers have past some sort of inspection before entering the cave.
Elagabalus Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 3,358