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UK Govt to ban 'Gay Conversion Therapy'

Andy_Ross

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Andy_Ross
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Controversial "gay conversion therapies" are to be banned as part of a government plan to improve the lives of gay and transgender people.

As part of the plan, it said it would "consider all legislative and non-legislative options to prohibit promoting, offering or conducting conversion therapy".

Equalities minister Penny Mordaunt told BBC Radio 4's Today programme of the practice: "This is very extreme so-called therapy that is there to try and 'cure' someone from being gay - of course you can't cure someone from being gay. In its most extreme form it can involve corrective rape.

"That's very different from psychological services and counselling. It's pretty unpleasant, some of the results we found, and it shows that there's more action to do."

She said the government is consulting on the best way to implement a ban, adding: "It's absolutely right that that abhorrent practice has to go."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44686374
 
About time someone did. In the US, only 13 states and a tiny handful of additional counties and cities ban conversion therapy. Unfortunately, its unlikely that this is going to snowball into a wider movement to ban the practice, as is it still quite popular with many in government, all the way up to state governors, especially in the "Bible Belt" states.

It's little more than outright torture and in some cases actual rape. It's frightening that there are people out there who would actually consider this abusive practice to be valid therapy. Worse, some of the biggest proponents of conversion therapy are "ex-gay" self-hating homosexuals. A few of whom have gone on to return to being openly homosexual and repudiated and apologized for their previous support, due to the horrific nature of the "therapy".
 
Good. "Conversion therapy" is emotional abuse covered in a thin veneer of psychological quackery.
 
Also, most of the states here that have "banned" it have only done so for minors. Self-loathing adults and people who don't resist persuasion well can still have all the conversion therapy they want.

Hmm, seems to me those places could get into a good deal of trouble if they've been forcing sexual intimacy on minors.
 
Will Straight Conversion Therapy still be allowed?
 
Cleon said:
Good. "Conversion therapy" is emotional abuse covered in a thin veneer of psychological quackery.
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Completely agree. it's disgusting it has taken until now for it to be banned.

It kind of begs the question why it has taken so long. Is it because politicians are enthralled to the religious sects? Do they believe the majority of people still hold these medieval ideals?
 
RolandRat said:
Completely agree. it's disgusting it has taken until now for it to be banned.

It kind of begs the question why it has taken so long. Is it because politicians are enthralled to the religious sects? Do they believe the majority of people still hold these medieval ideals?
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You do recall North Carolina's House Bill 2, aka the "Bathroom Bill", right? And that is not even close to the only such legislation that has been passed, let alone proposed. Hell, it was within my lifetime that homosexuality finally became legal in all 50 states, and there are still some who are trying to push back on that with "Religious Freedom" legislation legalizing discrimination against homosexuals and transgenders.

The majority of active voters in those states do, in fact, hold these ideas, and are firmly opposed to recognizing homosexuals or transgenders as people. Otherwise these people wouldn't keep getting voted in, and we wouldn't keep seeing this legislation.
 
p0lka said:
does this mean that any sort of conversion therapy for sex offenders would also be bad?
(devils advocate thingy)
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Given that there is not a single shred of evidence that any form of conversion therapy actually works as intended, and plenty that it doesn't, then yes it would also be bad. Especially since science-based Cognitive Behavioural Therapy has a proven track record of enabling preferential sex offenders to understand the nature of their deviancy and control their urges to prevent themselves from re-offending. Not much can be done for opportunistic sex offenders, since they're essentially sociopaths, and few sociopaths see any need to control themselves for any reason except to avoid punishment if they're caught.
 
DreamingNaiad said:
Because "sex offender" is a sexual orientation. Exactly like homosexuality. :rolleyes:
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For starters, you need to define what you mean by "sex offender", since that is a huge, overly-broad legal category, which can include anything from rape and child sexual abuse, to public nudity.

In the context of this thread, I think it's clear that it's being used to refer to child sexual abuse. And in that context, yes, in certain cases it is analogous to a sexual orientation, although not quite the same.

For a certain type of child sex abuser, the "preferential" paedophile offender, their brains are miswired to make them sexually attracted to pre-sexual humans. 'Why' is still a matter for medical research, but so far it looks to be a combination of neurological dysfunction and childhood experience.

It is similar to the medical definition of a "fetish", which is a preferential or exclusive sexual attraction to a non-sexual entity or inanimate object (different from a "kink"). The vast majority of such fetishes are harmless, and thereby ignored. Some, however, can result in a person causing harm to others if acted upon, eg. paedophilia, bestiality.

So far, there is no evidence that any kind of therapy can "cure" such a miswiring, but it can do a great deal toward allowing an individual to mitigate the influences said miswiring can have on their actions, and develop healthier patterns of behaviour and relationships. Thus greatly reducing the risk of the individual acting on their urges.

In the US, states that have implemented therapy and social re-integration as a key part of their sex offender programs have seen huge drops in recidivism rates, as compared to states that have stuck with a "punishment only" model.
 
luchog said:
For starters, you need to define what you mean by "sex offender", since that is a huge, overly-broad legal category, which can include anything from rape and child sexual abuse, to public nudity.

In the context of this thread, I think it's clear that it's being used to refer to child sexual abuse. And in that context, yes, in certain cases it is analogous to a sexual orientation, although not quite the same.

For a certain type of child sex abuser, the "preferential" paedophile offender, their brains are miswired to make them sexually attracted to pre-sexual humans. 'Why' is still a matter for medical research, but so far it looks to be a combination of neurological dysfunction and childhood experience.

It is similar to the medical definition of a "fetish", which is a preferential or exclusive sexual attraction to a non-sexual entity or inanimate object (different from a "kink"). The vast majority of such fetishes are harmless, and thereby ignored. Some, however, can result in a person causing harm to others if acted upon, eg. paedophilia, bestiality.

So far, there is no evidence that any kind of therapy can "cure" such a miswiring, but it can do a great deal toward allowing an individual to mitigate the influences said miswiring can have on their actions, and develop healthier patterns of behaviour and relationships. Thus greatly reducing the risk of the individual acting on their urges.

In the US, states that have implemented therapy and social re-integration as a key part of their sex offender programs have seen huge drops in recidivism rates, as compared to states that have stuck with a "punishment only" model.
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Why would miswired child rapists be brought up in a thread about homosexuals?

I am all for therapy to reduce reoffending but the two subjects are apples and oranges really.
 
DreamingNaiad said:
Because "sex offender" is a sexual orientation. Exactly like homosexuality. :rolleyes:
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What about pedophilia or zoophilia? They may fall into the category of "sex offender" but so did homosexuality at one time. Still does in some countries. Should we ban conversion therapy for adults who are attracted to children or animals but don't want to be?
 
We're still at the "Homosexuality is a slippery slope to $#@!ing our dogs!" stage? Really?
 
luchog said:
Try going back and reading the thread, and you'll get a better idea why it was brought up.
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:confused:

I have read it. I still dont see how a thread about the great news that gay conversion therapies will be banned jumps to sex offenders.

Why would someone jump from gays to sex offenders? Why is it odd that I find that odd?
 
Here's a handy little cheat sheet for anyone still having problems with this concept:

Is everybody involved in the hypothetical scenario a consenting adult human?

If the answer is "Yes" then yes it is a valid point of comparison to the legalization / social acceptance of adult, consenting homosexuality.

If the answer is "No" then it is not.
 
DreamingNaiad said:
:confused:

I have read it. I still dont see how a thread about the great news that gay conversion therapies will be banned jumps to sex offenders.

Why would someone jump from gays to sex offenders? Why is it odd that I find that odd?
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12349448#post12349448

HTH, HAND

CaptainHowdy said:
What about pedophilia or zoophilia? They may fall into the category of "sex offender" but so did homosexuality at one time. Still does in some countries. Should we ban conversion therapy for adults who are attracted to children or animals but don't want to be?
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12349489#post12349489
 
Last edited:
luchog said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12349448#post12349448

HTH, HAND




http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12349489#post12349489
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I asked why someone would bring up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people and you sent me to the post that brought up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people.

The very post that I questioned in the first place.

That they are linked in peoples minds is a problem. If people jump from 'homosexuality' to 'sex offender' that is worrying.

That is what I have been trying to say.
 
deadrose said:
Also, most of the states here that have "banned" it have only done so for minors. Self-loathing adults and people who don't resist persuasion well can still have all the conversion therapy they want.

Hmm, seems to me those places could get into a good deal of trouble if they've been forcing sexual intimacy on minors.
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Well the big problem is the parents that force or heavily pressure their kids into doing it. Personally i find it no less objectionable if someone were to pressure their adult 18 year old son or daughter into "being cured" of homosexuality on threat of being disinherited or something like that.
 
DreamingNaiad said:
I asked why someone would bring up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people and you sent me to the post that brought up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people.

The very post that I questioned in the first place.

That they are linked in peoples minds is a problem. If people jump from 'homosexuality' to 'sex offender' that is worrying.

That is what I have been trying to say.
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The link is that both groups have, or did have, access to conversion therapies. You are free to find that worrying or not as you like.
 
DreamingNaiad said:
I asked why someone would bring up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people and you sent me to the post that brought up sex offenders in a conversation about gay people.
Click to expand...


I'm going to assume that you're really this dense and really do need it spelled out, and are not being deliberately obtuse.

It has nothing to do with homosexuality. The issue was whether conversion therapy could still be considered a valid treatment for deviant sexual preferences such as paedophilia or bestiality, which it has consistently proven invalid as a so-called "treatment" for homosexuality.

Conversion therapy has been used as a treatment for homosexuality because a great deal of the population considers homosexuality deviant, despite the scientific evidence to the contrary. The question was posed as to whether conversion therapy, although invalid for homosexuality, might be valid for truly deviant sexualities. There is no evidence to suggest it would be.
 
Arcade22 said:
Well the big problem is the parents that force or heavily pressure their kids into doing it. Personally i find it no less objectionable if someone were to pressure their adult 18 year old son or daughter into "being cured" of homosexuality on threat of being disinherited or something like that.
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Or communities that impose conversion therapy on adults as a prerequisite of remaining a member of that community, or face ostracism or worse, or as part of a government-mandated treatment program in regions where homosexuality itself is illegal. A practice that still exists in many parts of the world including Africa and China.
 
A story just appearing.

Maine Governor LePage just vetoed a ban on gay conversion therapy. He has cited 'Religious Liberty' as his reason.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
A story just appearing.

Maine Governor LePage just vetoed a ban on gay conversion therapy. He has cited 'Religious Liberty' as his reason.
Click to expand...


In case anyone still hasn't made the connection, "Religious Liberty/Freedom" in legislation is nothing more more than a code word for legalized discrimination.
 
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