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Tags LGBT issues , London incidents , protest incidents , transgender issues

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Old 18th July 2018, 06:40 AM   #161
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Below are the insults.

Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
So... great! You're completely and unashamedly selfish when it comes to transgender issues! Thanks for the input! We'll take it from here, okay? Those of us who do care about how society treats one another, that is.
I'm not selfish. It just has nothing to do with me.


Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people.
No, who said that? I said I don't care what labels other people assign themselves. I repeated that.

I care that people are mean to other people for, as far as I can see, no reason. (i.e. bloke in a dress. Leave him alone, there's no need to be mean to this person)

You chose to add the 'how society treats them' just to have a pop at me. Don't do that.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:43 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can you tell me in which way you think I should care?
No, I'm not saying that.


Quote:
Can you show me how whatever label someone chooses to use has anything to do with me?
No because I never said nor implied that either.


Quote:
What does this 'caring' look like?
Really?


Quote:
I have to ask - Is English your first language? I mean no offense, but you seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.
I'm a native-English speaker and I'm highly fluent and I'm not certain why you are continuing to be rude to me.



Quote:
You also seem to be believing you are able to read my mind. Why would I lie when I tell you that what you take from my writings isn't correct? Why would I do that?
Because YOU happen to be the one who is mistaken in this instance?


Quote:
What exactly do you think I' saying when I say "I don't care"?
That you don't care. Which is what I've been saying. The. Whole. Time.


Quote:
What do you think I should care about?
Nothing.

You still have no right to have treated me as you have.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:43 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
No, because I didn't make it.

I just quoted everything I've said on the subject as well as everything I've said to you.
I wasn't talking to you, was I? I was talking to the author of the post I quoted. Why on earth did you think I was talking to you?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:45 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Really?
Let's pick this out.

You lament me for not caring - despite not understanding what I mean and not clarifying.

I ask you how you think I should care but you can't answer? How does that help?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:46 AM   #165
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This entire thing began with your response to the following list:

"Why are you in this bathroom? You're not a woman/man!"
"Why are you in girl/boy scouts? You're not a woman/man!"
"Why are you coaching girls/boys? You're not a woman/man!"
"Why are you attending this bridal shower/bachelor party? You're not a woman/man!"
"Why are you wearing a dress/suit and tie? You're not a woman/man!"

To each item you said, "I don't care."



Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Below are the insults.



I'm not selfish. It just has nothing to do with me.




No, who said that? I said I don't care what labels other people assign themselves. I repeated that.

I care that people are mean to other people for, as far as I can see, no reason. (i.e. bloke in a dress. Leave him alone, there's no need to be mean to this person)

You chose to add the 'how society treats them' just to have a pop at me. Don't do that.
Did you not JUST accuse me of mind reading and now you throw this at me? I did it "just to have a pop at you"? I added "how society treats them" because of the list I just reproduced above.

They are ALL about how society treats them. About which you said, "I don't care."
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:47 AM   #166
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Deep breaths guys, come on.

Everybody involved in this discussion is on the Transgender's side when it comes to anything actually meaningful or real world.

I do why question why concepts of labeling and conceptualization are so contentious. If I don't care what bathroom they go in, who they sleep with, and how the dress, carry, and present themselves what's the difference?

Again is it so bloody goddamn important that our internal labels match up?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:48 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I wasn't talking to you, was I? I was talking to the author of the post I quoted. Why on earth did you think I was talking to you?
Because YOU quoted ME. I'm TheNorseman. The person whom you quoted. You apparently were wanting to berate ponderingturtle which is not me.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:50 AM   #168
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:51 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Because YOU quoted ME. I'm TheNorseman. The person whom you quoted.
*Confused* No he didn't.

Or did he edit it?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:53 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Confused* No he didn't.

Or did he edit it?
There was no edit. I quoted Ponderingturtle and asked him a question.


I'm giving up in the face of a lack f compression of reality.

Go back and look again, Norseman. In your rush to take me to task over imagined slights, you've failed to do basic reading.

Have a lovely day.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:54 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Confused* No he didn't.

Or did he edit it?
Post # 155 I can screencap it, but he's quoting ponderingturtle and I presumed he was asking me to explain it as if I were the author.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:55 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Everybody involved in this discussion is on the Transgender's side when it comes to anything actually meaningful or real world.

Well, everybody who hasn't been driven away by being labelled a bigot or a terf or a transphobe for actually caring about women's rights to retain their sex-protected spaces, that is.

And still nobody has explained how this bizarre belief that men can actually turn into women has come about.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:57 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
There was no edit. I quoted Ponderingturtle and asked him a question.
Yes, that one post. But what about the other posts where you did quote me?

Like I said, please read post #136. That was ME you were quoting and not ponderingturtle. And I've been responding to your quoting me until that post #155 which I erroneously thought you wanted my input on. Well, I said I didn't write it, so it's still open for ponderingturtle to respond.

Nevertheless, you DID quote me, multiple times and imply I said things I did not say and when I clarify what I said and regarding what was said earlier, you still chose to respond with insults and now flounce with further insults.

Now at least I know never to give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to issues of mistakes whether or not anyone is at fault and I know now that you'll gratuitously toss insults.

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Old 18th July 2018, 06:58 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Post # 155 I can screencap it, but he's quoting ponderingturtle and I presumed he was asking me to explain it as if I were the author.
*Even more confused*

But... he didn't. He was asking ponderingturtle to explain something, not you. He didn't quote or say your name.

I'm totally lost here.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:00 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Even more confused*

But... he didn't. He was asking ponderingturtle to explain something, not you. He didn't quote or say your name.

I'm totally lost here.

You and me both.

Bugging out.

Have fun with your outrage, people. I'm sure it works wonderfully for convincing people of your cause and doesn't drive people away in droves.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:02 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Even more confused*

But... he didn't. He was asking ponderingturtle to explain something, not you. He didn't quote or say your name.

I'm totally lost here.
Yes, I made a mistake on that ONE post where I accidentally answered it. I accidentally answered it by saying, "I didn't write it." So, yeah... sorry about answering the one post which was not directed at me.

This does nothing to explain the REST of our interactions and his part in them.

You know... like from post #136. Where he quotes ME and berates me for telling him what to do, telling him what to care about, acting like I'm a mind reader, and rushing to seek insult (where presumably no insult was actually there. Even though I quoted the entire thing).

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Old 18th July 2018, 07:10 AM   #177
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Which is why I keep trying to bring this back down to ground. You guys agree on a lot more then you disagree.

The people who want to hurt, abuse, and discriminate against transgenders are the bad guys here, not the people who are just honestly disagreeing with you about specific conceptual nuance.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:34 AM   #178
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What about the people who want to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women?
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:36 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What about the people who want to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women?
*Confused* Those are... also bad. I think we're all onboard with that.

I'm sure there's a "Gotcha" coming I... just don't care.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:43 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which is why I keep trying to bring this back down to ground. You guys agree on a lot more then you disagree.

The people who want to hurt, abuse, and discriminate against transgenders are the bad guys here, not the people who are just honestly disagreeing with you about specific conceptual nuance.
Yes, you're probably right.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:46 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What about the people who want to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women?
This thread isn't about that.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:47 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Confused* Those are... also bad. I think we're all onboard with that.

So did anyone actually look at the link JihadJane posted?

https://terfisaslur.com/

Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This thread isn't about that.

It is. It is about precisely those people, as evidenced by the above link.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:49 AM   #183
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Rolfe I have zero intentions of having "Here's a bowl of soup that is too cold, ergo nowhere is a bowl of soup that is too hot" argument with you. Start a thread about it if you want to discuss your "Transgenders are out to get women!" hangup.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:49 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Deep breaths guys, come on.

Everybody involved in this discussion is on the Transgender's side when it comes to anything actually meaningful or real world.
Except those who are not. Of which there are plenty.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:51 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which is why I keep trying to bring this back down to ground. You guys agree on a lot more then you disagree.

The people who want to hurt, abuse, and discriminate against transgenders are the bad guys here, not the people who are just honestly disagreeing with you about specific conceptual nuance.
So Rolfe is the bad guy then. Got it.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:53 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Confused* Those are... also bad. I think we're all onboard with that.

I'm sure there's a "Gotcha" coming I... just don't care.
That would be in her expressed views most trans people because they are perverts getting off on invading womens spaces. That is why those men need to be stopped.

But of course there is nothing substantively harmful with such a position or you would be wrong in the above about no one here was against trans people in an substantive fashion.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:54 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This thread isn't about that.
It is to Rolfe, that is how she views trans women.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:54 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Rolfe I have zero intentions of having "Here's a bowl of soup that is too cold, ergo nowhere is a bowl of soup that is too hot" argument with you. Start a thread about it if you want to discuss your "Transgenders are out to get women!" hangup.
I don't get why Rolfe objects to being labeled "transphobic" when she thinks transwomen are out to "hurt, abuse and discriminate against women."

It's a bit like refusing to eat meat but getting offended at the label "vegetarian."
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:56 AM   #189
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I'm well aware of Rolfe's hangup with transgenders and her paranoid delusion about their existence. She was not an active participant in the discussion when I made my statement.

I believe that Norseman and 3Point14 however, are capable of coming to an understanding. Like I said they agree on far more than they disagree and should not be each other's enemy.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:56 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I don't get why Rolfe objects to being labeled "transphobic" when she thinks transwomen are out to "hurt, abuse and discriminate against women."

It's a bit like refusing to eat meat but getting offended at the label "vegetarian."
Because it would be more like refusing to accept that meat exists. She rejects that trans people exist at all so how can she be afraid of them?
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:57 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I don't get why Rolfe objects to being labeled "transphobic" when she thinks transwomen are out to "hurt, abuse and discriminate against women."

It's a bit like refusing to eat meat but getting offended at the label "vegetarian."
Oh, you don't even want to get started on the term 'cis' or 'cis-gendered' either.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:59 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Rolfe I have zero intentions of having "Here's a bowl of soup that is too cold, ergo nowhere is a bowl of soup that is too hot" argument with you. Start a thread about it if you want to discuss your "Transgenders are out to get women!" hangup.

How about you turn that around.

Gosh I happen to know a few trans-identifying men who are nice people and never to my knowledge do anything to make women uncomfortable, so of course all trans-identifying men are like that and women are wrong for expressing their discomfort.

OK, you showed me a few examples of trans-identifying men who are aggressive bullies making threats against women, but these are isolated exceptions and shouldn't be taken as representative of all trans-identifying men.

Can you see the contradiction there? On one hand you want to generalise from a few examples, but then when you're shown counter-examples you declare that they're not representative and one shouldn't generalise.

The fact is that aggressive bullying men who want to take over and invade all women's protected spaces by declaring they're women ("there is no debate") actually exist, and irrespective of their proportion in terms of all trans-identifying men they are extremely active, high-profile and vocal. See JihadJane's link again.

Women are concerned about these people, and lesbians are particularly concerned because they see all their lesbian groups and organisations being taken over by these pushy, entitled males. They also see and feel a lot of pressure to agree that they'd be prepared to have sex with these people, whom they see as male, and resent being called bigots when they point out that men are not women.

It's the protest of these concerned women that you're characterising as "TERFs invade". It's these concerned women you're demonising as a hate group. I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:01 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I don't get why Rolfe objects to being labeled "transphobic" when she thinks transwomen are out to "hurt, abuse and discriminate against women."

SOME people are definitely out to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women. Some of these people are men who identify as trans. You can call me all the names you like, but that remains a fact.

https://terfisaslur.com/
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:04 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
SOME people are definitely out to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women. Some of these people are men who identify as trans. You can call me all the names you like, but that remains a fact.

https://terfisaslur.com/
"And some, I assume, are good people."
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:05 AM   #195
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Rolfe on a trip to the Caribbean about 20 years back I got jumped by a couple of black guys, robbed and kicked in the side a few times. It was pretty unpleasant day.

By your logic I am now 100% justified in being racist.

But again you have a bowl of soup that's too hot, ergo no soup is ever too cold.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:06 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Oh, you don't even want to get started on the term 'cis' or 'cis-gendered' either.

No, you really don't.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:07 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
SOME people are definitely out to hurt, abuse and discriminate against women. Some of these people are men who identify as trans.
Sure. But if your response is to deny transgenderism is a thing, and keep linking to sources that call them all either mislabeled butch lesbians and effeminate boys, or fetishistic perverts out to fulfill their sexual desires by harrassing women... don't be offended when people conclude you're prejudiced against trans folks.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:07 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Rolfe on a trip to the Caribbean about 20 years back I got jumped by a couple of black guys, robbed and kicked in the side a few times. It was pretty unpleasant day.

By your logic I am now 100% justified in being racist.

But again you have a bowl of soup that's too hot, ergo no soup is ever too cold.

You might as well say, I know people who are really nice guys and would never hurt a fly, therefore nobody is ever justified in protesting against people who are aggressive, threatening and nasty.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:09 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You might as well say, I know people who are really nice guys and would never hurt a fly, therefore nobody is ever justified in protesting against people who are aggressive, threatening and nasty.
Against those people and their actions, yes.
Against the entire class of people they belong to, no.
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Old 18th July 2018, 08:10 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You might as well say, I know people who are really nice guys and would never hurt a fly, therefore nobody is ever justified in protesting against people who are aggressive, threatening and nasty.
But that's not what you are doing. You're both demonizing and denying the existence of an entire demographic because "some of them are bad."

You're doing. You know you are doing this. Stop acting obtuse.
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