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Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Christine Blasey Ford , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees , Trump controversies

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Old 4th September 2018, 03:53 PM   #161
alfaniner
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Learned a couple things today from Twitter (for what it's worth):

I learned what a White Power sign is.

I thought Kavanaugh getting up and exiting so quickly for the break was probably because he had to pee so bad. Apparently he was avoiding someone.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:00 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
They care to the extent that they're hoping to find dirt. But they've already made the decision to oppose him regardless of what's in those documents. They aren't waiting for information from those documents in order to make their decision.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, I do not object to that either. His judicial record is extensive and public. He's a conservative judge. If you're a liberal politician, that suffices to oppose him. Nothing objectionable about that. I object to pretending that your mind isn't made up when it already is, but I don't object to having already made up your mind.



It's funny the rationalizations you make for setting up a straw man. And you're in no position to lecture me about intellectual integrity.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, it did not. You are now simply lying, as I have already corrected you on this point. You constructed a straw man, and now you are trying to blame me for the fact that you lied.

My 'observation' is correct.

Own your arguments.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:04 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yum yum! That is some fine regaling.

Readers, you see want to know why my post replying to eeyore was IN FACT an REPLY to our correspondent here.

And anyone who says differently:

INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST.

Some of the very finest regaling one will ever see.
Your contention really is that you can't follow the argument?

His conflict of interest did not involve hotels, but was a conflict of interest, and his lying about it could well be perjury from his 2006 confirmation (that last point being the issue YOU brought up that doesn't in any way have a requirement to be about hotels). I never even suggested it relied on hotels and nothing in the conversation indicates it would.

And thanks for proving that you indeed cannot address the point I was make and are desperate to deflect. Good to know you don't care about perjury during confirmations, nor conflicts of interest going undisclosed from judges. More of your heroes of course.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:10 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Democrat with a capital D is a noun. The adjective form of the noun is Democratic.

On the second word, I can't figure out any proper version of it that fits. "Democrat itself" makes no grammatical sense. 'Democrats themselves' would work.
I didn't make any mistake. They're afraid of overreach by the Democrats. Democrat overreach. The second word is democracy, not democrat. Sheesh.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:12 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The leftists were ina tizzy because some aide sitting behind the nominee was making the 'white power" sign. Sure she is the granddaughter of holocaust survivors and was merely crossing her arms. what a pack of clowns.
All 100 million of them?

Stop saying nonsense. You read one opinion on this, didn't you?
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:24 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
All 100 million of them?

Stop saying nonsense. You read one opinion on this, didn't you?
No, not all 100 million of them, but a lot more than one.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:27 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Your contention really is that you can't follow the argument?

His conflict of interest did not involve hotels, but was a conflict of interest, and his lying about it could well be perjury from his 2006 confirmation (that last point being the issue YOU brought up that doesn't in any way have a requirement to be about hotels). I never even suggested it relied on hotels and nothing in the conversation indicates it would.

And thanks for proving that you indeed cannot address the point I was make and are desperate to deflect. Good to know you don't care about perjury during confirmations, nor conflicts of interest going undisclosed from judges. More of your heroes of course.
Say, you are walking back the whole i replied to you are ya, that is good, because pretty clear you came slamming into the discussion totally out of control.

Anything polite to say about the actual topic i was discussing when you declared the post moronic?

Because. Yikes. Amiright?
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th September 2018 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:59 PM   #168
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You know what I hate most about the impending confirmation process? That it matters.

It really shouldn't. The law ought to be the law. The Supreme Court should be made up of smart guys who have really good reading comprehension skills and no agenda. Instead, left and right have both tried to get justices that will use the power of the court to push their policies. (Yes, right wingers, some on the right have been "judicial activists" as well. Roberts doesn't seem to bad that way, but Thomas can twist anything into a right wing opinion.)


Oh, well. That's the way it is. Kavanaugh says he is the sort of judge I like, i.e. neutral, but I have my doubts.
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:03 PM   #169
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Kavanaugh "refused" to shake the hand of Parkland victim's father, apparently. Media jumping all over that but I think this is just a part of the knee-jerk blooper reel.

Brett Kavanaugh Ďturned his back,í says father of Parkland victim
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:12 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, you are walking back the whole i replied to you are ya, that is good, because pretty clear you came slamming into the discussion totally out of control.
No. Looks like I'm going to have to break it down Barney style for you because I don't have a song or pictures ready.

You were responding to me, my argument didn't rely on the example of hotels. Now, let's walk back a few baby steps. Skeptic Ginger was talking about what the documents that are being denied might show that would make this nomination problematic. She used the hypothetical example of hotel stuff causing conflicts of interest. Now, that doesn't actually change the subject to hotel ownership. Eeyore also addressed that hypothetical, but again, the subject doesn't have to stay on hotels. You said you were confident based on his 2006 confirmation that no such thing existed, and that's when I pointed out such confidence is misplaced because the documents might show he perjured himself.

Notice how I explicitly talked about perjuring himself in his confirmation making your confidence based on that confirmation moronic. There is nothing there saying that it was about hotels, just that his confirmation does not show he is free from conflicts or other problems. An example being used doesn't mean I have to stick to that hypothetical example. The supporting evidence you presented, that his confirmation means people should be confident he's clear, was dumb.

Quote:
Anything polite to say about the actual topic i was discussing when you declared the post moronic?
Again, these documents being denied might prove he perjured himself at his past confirmation. Going to address that at all? Can you? Isn't that reason to provide these documents to the Senate, so they can clear him of what from public information looks like perjury? Got anything, polite or not, to address that?

Quote:
Because. Yikes. Amiright?
Yikes indeed. Deflecting from possible perjury in a SCOTUS nom is indeed scary.

The poor quality of the deflection is insulting. Baby steps again for you so I'll explain; when people with self respect see so little effort and skill being brought to bear on them, even for the purpose of lying to them, they are rightfully insulted. If you're going to deflect at least put some effort into it! That's hard for Trump supporters I know, but that's a toxic dynamic.
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:30 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, you are walking back the whole i replied to you are ya, that is good, because pretty clear you came slamming into the discussion totally out of control.

Anything polite to say about the actual topic i was discussing when you declared the post moronic?

Because. Yikes. Amiright?
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
No.
Cool, thanks for posting. Think how much embarrassment you could have saved yourself.
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:40 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Kavanaugh "refused" to shake the hand of Parkland victim's father, apparently. Media jumping all over that but I think this is just a part of the knee-jerk blooper reel.

Brett Kavanaugh Ďturned his back,í says father of Parkland victim
Either Kavanaugh didn't know who this guy was, in which case why would he give him the time of day given the atmosphere of the proceedings, or he did know who this guy was, in which case what he has already said publicly about Kavanaugh would warrant a back turn.
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:41 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Cool, thanks for posting. Think how much embarrassment you could have saved yourself.
My post is directly above yours and shows that my 'no' was not in response to that part of your post. I separated it out and everything.

Don't worry, Zigg will be right along to call our your lie, because consistency.

You're still failing to deflect from possible perjury from a SCOTUS nominee. Have anything, polite or not, on the topic?
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:43 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
And Chuck Grassley doesn't give a rats posterior about any objections. His only objective is to steamroll this confirmation hearing through.

Edit: Frankly, if this keeps up, the Democrats should just stay away the next few days. Let the Republicans field their softball questions and vote him through by themselves, as it would be the only way to ensure that Kavanaugh's entire time as a justice would be tainted with an asterisk.
This reminds me of the argument that, somehow, Harry Reid "allowed" McConnell to throw out the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices.

They don't care about your asterisks, or your traditions. This GOP is about power. If they have to toss out rule of law, okay. If they have to side with ethnonationalists, they already did.
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Old 4th September 2018, 05:47 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
This reminds me of the argument that, somehow, Harry Reid "allowed" McConnell to throw out the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices.

They don't care about your asterisks, or your traditions. This GOP is about power. If they have to toss out rule of law, okay. If they have to side with ethnonationalists, they already did.
Changing the fillibuster isn't throwing out the rule of law.
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, not all 100 million of them, but a lot more than one.
Says who? There's no source for TBD's claim.
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:13 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Says who? There's no source for TBD's claim.
Iíve seen a bunch of people freaking out over it on twitter. The numbers may still be small (certainly much less than 100 million), so Iím not trying to claim any great significance to this, but they arenít 1 either.
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:22 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Iíve seen a bunch of people freaking out over it on twitter. The numbers may still be small (certainly much less than 100 million), so Iím not trying to claim any great significance to this, but they arenít 1 either.
One should not give any credence, but unfortunately the mob was howling about it this afternoon, it was appalling.

Here is the womanís husband, who is also a United States District Attorney

https://mobile.twitter.com/USAttyBas...-prestigiacomo

Monsters
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:53 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
This reminds me of the argument that, somehow, Harry Reid "allowed" McConnell to throw out the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices.

They don't care about your asterisks, or your traditions. This GOP is about power. If they have to toss out rule of law, okay. If they have to side with ethnonationalists, they already did.
This is very true. They don't care about rules, decorum, tradition or even law. All they care about is power. They are doing whatever it takes to hijack the Judicial branch, from the top down. It is just another tear in the democracy in favor of their authoritarianism. They are the honey-badger party, they don't give a **** about anything but power.
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Old 4th September 2018, 07:46 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
This reminds me of the argument that, somehow, Harry Reid "allowed" McConnell to throw out the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices.

They don't care about your asterisks, or your traditions. This GOP is about power. If they have to toss out rule of law, okay. If they have to side with ethnonationalists, they already did.
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This is very true. They don't care about rules, decorum, tradition or even law. All they care about is power. They are doing whatever it takes to hijack the Judicial branch, from the top down. It is just another tear in the democracy in favor of their authoritarianism. They are the honey-badger party, they don't give a **** about anything but power.
Ah, in 2013, the Democrats use the Nuclear Option to throw out filibuster on all judicial candidates other than SCOTUS. In 2017, the Republican use the nuclear option on SCOTUS nominees.

But the GOP are the bad guys because tradition!! You know, that thing the Democrats threw out in 2013?

too ******* funny
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Old 4th September 2018, 07:49 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The leftists were ina tizzy because some aide sitting behind the nominee was making the 'white power" sign. Sure she is the granddaughter of holocaust survivors and was merely crossing her arms. what a pack of clowns.
Wut? The left's new face of the white power movement is a Mexican/Jew. Not surprising considering the last one was a British-born practicing Catholic of Greek/Jewish heritage who is openly gay and married to a black man. Clowns indeed.


Cory Booker's in on it as well:
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:19 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The leftists were ina tizzy because some aide sitting behind the nominee was making the 'white power" sign. Sure she is the granddaughter of holocaust survivors and was merely crossing her arms. what a pack of clowns.

"Kavanaughís former law clerk Zina Bash is flashing a white power sign behind him during his Senate confirmation hearing. They literally want to bring white supremacy to the Supreme Court. What a national outrage and a disgrace to the rule of law."
-- Eugene Gu, MD (Sept 4, 2018)


Zina Bash is Mexican on her motherís side. Jewish on her fatherís side. And apparently, a white supremacist on the inside. Okay! Oops, better change that to whatever.
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:41 PM   #183
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Rubio's argument is that because we all knew a SCOTUS judge was in the balance with the 2016 election, and because Trump put out his Federalist list of candidates, therefore the US public voted a mandate for Trump's nominees.

I'm sorry alt-whiters, that ain't how it works. There was Russian interference, decades of false attacks against Clinton, misogyny, the EC, Trump's convincing con, and Comey's interference. Just because McConnell pulled some unethical shenanigans and claimed the election was going to be about the open SCOTUS seat, does not mean that was the one critical factor all voters were focused on. It disgusts me to hear yet more lies.
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:44 PM   #184
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They will continue to lie because that is who they are.
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Old 4th September 2018, 11:19 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Kavanaughís former law clerk Zina Bash is flashing a white power sign behind him during his Senate confirmation hearing. They literally want to bring white supremacy to the Supreme Court. What a national outrage and a disgrace to the rule of law."
-- Eugene Gu, MD (Sept 4, 2018)

Leftist wack job, Eugene Gu, "said he was let go from his five-year residency at Vanderbilt University Medical Center (VUMC) on Friday (June 8, 2018) after only 2 1/2 years into the program.

"Gu, a well-known figure on social media claimed the overarching reason Nashville's largest hospital decided not to renew his contract was because of his criticism of Trump on Twitter.

ďThey don't want that out there in the media. Itís troublesome to them, and so they punished me for it, said Gu."

-- The Hill (June 11, 2018)
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Old 5th September 2018, 12:52 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The senate doesn't care about transparency except to the extent that they can get political advantage from it.
You don't think any politician cares even slightly about the erosion of democracy? Okay, then. I can see that nothing fruitful can possibly come from talking to you.
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Old 5th September 2018, 04:30 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Iíve seen a bunch of people freaking out over it on twitter.
I really don't think what goes on on Twitter means a damn. People give that platform way too much weight in the balance.
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Old 5th September 2018, 04:38 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You don't think any politician cares even slightly about the erosion of democracy?
In the abstract, probably. But self interest usually comes before principles. There may be exceptions, but donít ever depend on it. If you want transparency, you have to make their self interest align with transparency, you canít count on getting it absent that.
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Old 5th September 2018, 05:08 AM   #189
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Let's put it this way - 4% of the documents have been released in any timely fashion. I think it's reasonable to expect that at least 1 politician may care just a little about that, and not just in the abstract.
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Old 5th September 2018, 06:11 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Get on my level.
Too low
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:38 PM   #191
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Kavanaugh refused to answer a question about whether Trump could pardon himself
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:49 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Good for him.
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:55 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh no! Not an asterisk! Won't that totally invalidate all his judgements?
Sure, that's an adorable remark.

Or, of course, you could wonder whether or not the proceedings should be postponed so that the data dump could be read.

I don't think it matters, practically speaking, one way or the other. He'll be confirmed before the midterms. But it does matter, in terms of basic decency, whether or not those who vote on his confirmation have time to review relevant documents.

Still. Great that you don't give a ****.
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:57 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Does anyone really believe the Democrats (or the Republicans) care what is in those documents?
Er, yes? I believe some folks care. Decent folks on both sides of the aisle should care, surely.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:00 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Because for the most part their minds were mind up before he was even nominated.
I reckon that Dems know rejecting this nominee is a long shot. It's not like, oh, say, Obama's nominee who never received a hearing at all for no good reason aside from McConnell's very effective gamesmanship.

This guy will be confirmed. But there's nothing wrong with insisting that the opposing party has time to review relevant documents (and access to the same).
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:04 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why would any of those documents contain anything like that?
Why wouldn't it be peachy?
He was elected knowing he owned a fancy hotel close to the White House and the Capital Building.
Sorry, you think that Trump voters are the ultimate arbiters of what counts as a violation of the emoluments clause? That a large minority voted him into office means, eh, he can't be doing wrong by the Constitution?
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:11 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, I do not object to that either. His judicial record is extensive and public. He's a conservative judge. If you're a liberal politician, that suffices to oppose him. Nothing objectionable about that. I object to pretending that your mind isn't made up when it already is, but I don't object to having already made up your mind.



It's funny the rationalizations you make for setting up a straw man. And you're in no position to lecture me about intellectual integrity.
Hey, suppose my mind is made up. Suppose that I'm a senator totally committed to reject the nominee.

So what? Having more access to data which might support my decision might well convince others to agree with me. Whether or not I am committed to rejecting him has nothing to do with whether or not more information is better than less. I am one vote, but I want to have the data that might persuade other votes.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:17 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Too low
As low as committing perjury during a confirmation hearing about your role in crafting torture policy, then ruling on that policy you helped craft? Or as low as nominating someone just because they actually think a sitting president should never have to deal with any personal legal challenges?

It's sad how many Trump supporters hide behind pretending they aren't making arguments so they don't have to defend what, deep down, they know is indefensible. Pretending to have a principled objection to the Dems in Congress actually trying to do their damn job in order to violate your own principles and precedent is beyond morally and intellectually bankrupt. You know it is, but you want to hurt 'libs' and 'progs' more than protect the country or your own ideals.

You're turning a generation progressive through moronically (because it hurts yourself) cruel behavior.

Hell, you don't even have to get on my level; get back to the level you thought you were before Trump.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:20 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
This reminds me of the argument that, somehow, Harry Reid "allowed" McConnell to throw out the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices.

They don't care about your asterisks, or your traditions. This GOP is about power. If they have to toss out rule of law, okay. If they have to side with ethnonationalists, they already did.
Yeah, Reid's move did seem to set the stage for McConnell's move. I understand why he did it, but he totally made McConnell's move more palatable, and the greater shame for the nation.

Obama couldn't seat judges because of the obstruction by Republicans. That's why Trump, who has all three branches, is able to seat judges. The Reid nuclear option simply made things worse in this situation.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:24 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Hey, suppose my mind is made up. Suppose that I'm a senator totally committed to reject the nominee.

So what? Having more access to data which might support my decision might well convince others to agree with me. Whether or not I am committed to rejecting him has nothing to do with whether or not more information is better than less. I am one vote, but I want to have the data that might persuade other votes.
They aren't looking for themselves; they're looking to convince some (two) Republicans. I don't think at this point they're foolish enough to try to shame any of them, but I do think they're trying to find something a somewhat moral Republican could use as political cover to oppose the nomination.

That hypothetical Republican could cite the Republican's own arguments about nominations already, and if it is found that he did commit perjury during his initial confirmation provably, then this hypothetical Republican could make the argument 'we have plenty of good potential nominees who don't lie'.

Maybe. After what the GOP has shown itself to be, I doubt any living Republican would take that risk now. That GOP supporters are throwing such hypocritical shade at Dems for trying to do the most basic due diligence does not bode well for reasoning or shame working on them.
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