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Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Christine Blasey Ford , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees , Trump controversies

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Old 6th September 2018, 12:26 PM   #281
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
According to the WAPO, the emails Booker leaked had been cleared for release, he just jumped the gun a little.
This will make expulsion almost impossible ( I never thought it was a realistic possibility anyway). On the other hand, it does make it look like Booker was indulging in a little bit of grandstanding.
Yes. I thought this thing had reached peak silliness a while ago, but apparently not. Kavanaugh will be confirmed and everyone at the confirmation hearing knows it. So it's all really just political grandstanding and jockeying for position, particularly between Kamala Harris and Corey Booker. Who could have not seen that coming?
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Old 6th September 2018, 12:30 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
-Trump

Sounds like Trump is paying people to beat up protesters.
The Russian "Black Hundreds" reborn...
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:22 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Yes. I thought this thing had reached peak silliness a while ago, but apparently not. Kavanaugh will be confirmed and everyone at the confirmation hearing knows it. So it's all really just political grandstanding and jockeying for position, particularly between Kamala Harris and Corey Booker. Who could have not seen that coming?

"Cory Booker & Kamala Harris competing for Most Hysterical Woman at the Kavanaugh hearings."
-- Ann Coulter (Sept 6, 2018)
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:33 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Cory Booker & Kamala Harris competing for Most Hysterical Woman at the Kavanaugh hearings."
-- Ann Coulter (Sept 6, 2018)
You still pay attention to her?
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:34 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
You still pay attention to her?
God, even most conservatives ignore Coulter nowdays.
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:39 PM   #286
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Adapted from GOP twitter feed:

"LAST NIGHT: -Spartacus spoke for 75% of his 30-minute questioning period -Spartacus interrupted Judge Kavanaugh 23 times in 30 minutes -Kamala Harris interrupted him 27 times in 30 minutes Looks like their 2020 campaigns have already begun."
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:40 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
1) that's not a requirement
If you really believe this, then you have a grave misunderstanding of how employment works.

Quote:
2) since this money is disbursed before any fines are levied, and there's no indication that they have to return the money if they aren't fined, they very well may make money.
And this all according to whom?

Quote:
Don't know, don't care.
Can’t explain it, will continue to ignore it.

Quote:
They are being paid.
Not to protest.

Quote:
It's not like this is the first time, there is a long history of paying people to protest. For example:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ppfu0o...orking-stiffed
There’s also a long history of conservative conspiracy theorists making false claims about paid protesters.
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:55 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
If you really believe this, then you have a grave misunderstanding of how employment works.
Nobody said this was employment.

Quote:
Not to protest.
Is this some semantic quibble? That they're being paid for something else, which just happens to coincide with protesting?

Quote:
There’s also a long history of conservative conspiracy theorists making false claims about paid protesters.
Which isn't relevant, if they are in fact being paid.
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Old 6th September 2018, 02:34 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Cory Booker & Kamala Harris competing for Most Hysterical Woman at the Kavanaugh hearings."
-- Ann Coulter (Sept 6, 2018)
Bringing up Coulter is tantamount to saying "I got nuthin'".
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Old 6th September 2018, 03:43 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
They don't have to be Trump enthusiasts. In fact, I bet many hate the man. However, they are constrained by what his election, and most importantly continued very high levels of support by Republicans, indicates.

You have one there. I don't think she will be (has she even objected to the absolutely craven procedural double-standard from the rest of the GOP yet?), but your view isn't merit less. Did you have another?
Fair question. I think Murkowski is another moderate Republican. But two is not many and it's a long shot.

I think the conclusion is clear.
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Old 6th September 2018, 04:17 PM   #291
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
You still pay attention to her?
I just started to. That was some funny stuff!
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Old 6th September 2018, 04:23 PM   #292
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My feeling was, when the Democrats started talking about documents instead of issues, they lost the confirmation battle. I think the Dems aren't going to fight this one hard because the base doesn't really care, and the DNC really doesn't want to lose any red state Dems in the Senate.

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Old 6th September 2018, 07:25 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
My feeling was, when the Democrats started talking about documents instead of issues, they lost the confirmation battle.
I find this to be a very odd position. In the first place, the documents are being used to bring up the issues of race and abortion. Secondly, Kavanaugh isn't going to own up to his positions on issues. Thirdly, Democrats are in the minority, and its not like they are going to change the Republican Senators minds on issues.

There is no confirmation battle. Republicans have the votes, and a few vulnerable Dems will use that as cover. The only thing that could stop it would be some sort of non-issue scandal.

Quote:
I think the Dems aren't going to fight this one hard because the base doesn't really care, and the DNC really doesn't want to lose any red state Dems in the Senate.
I don't see how they could be fighting harder. They are really just powerless in this situation. SCOTUS control is a huge issue for the bases of both parties. Did you miss the absolutely devastated grieving when Kennedy announced his retirement? It was a political bombshell.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:35 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
My feeling was, when the Democrats started talking about documents instead of issues, they lost the confirmation battle. I think the Dems aren't going to fight this one hard because the base doesn't really care, and the DNC really doesn't want to lose any red state Dems in the Senate.
Really? I got my Trump voting buddy to concede that they should have time to review the released documents.

It took some effort, and I had to put the unreleased documents aside, but he agreed in the end.

He's a decent guy, despite his vote.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:34 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nobody said this was employment.



Is this some semantic quibble? That they're being paid for something else, which just happens to coincide with protesting?



Which isn't relevant, if they are in fact being paid.
So it would be like offering to pay for a person's legal defense if they punched a protester in the face?
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:52 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Note how he refuses to give a straight answer to the question of whether he's spoken to anybody other than his fellow judges about Mueller's investigation. The answer, however, is obviously "yes", because if it were "no" then he wouldn't need to know who worked at Trump's lawyers' firm in order to say that he'd not spoken to anybody there about it.
There were more than a few times today he was clearly avoiding answering while trying not to perjure himself. That was one of them.

Claiming he didn't know what was in the 5,000 documents Trump was keeping secret was another. Kavanaugh is a lousy liar. He can't keep a straight face when he's giving questionably credible answers. Watch him and see.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:54 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I see the "spontaneous" "protesters" at the hearing were getting paid cash after performances.
And you saw that where?
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:00 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Oh brother. That is just like a Tucker Carlson interview.

Quote:
Jennifer @ 1:11: “We cover the fines. You know people get fined.”...

Adam: “So you pay, you pay… The intention is to protest but you know you’re gonna get arrested and then..” (Jennifer cuts in)...
And on and on it goes.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:04 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Kavanaugh's answer sounded like Sgt Schultz: "I know nothing."

This was one of the times he tried to keep a straight face but ended up with that deer in the headlights look that came across as deception.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:07 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Is that what John Oliver calls astroturfing?!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


(I'm asking because I'm trying to understand the concept.)
No it is not. And given you can find the definition and descriptions of astro-turfing all over the net, I find it hard to believe you are just trying to understand the concept.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:13 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
"Spoke to the protest organizer. She confirmed handing out cash, but said they intend cash to be used to pay fines they know come when protestors break the law."

Money to pay potential fines =/= compensation for protesting.
I'm not sure clearly explaining the same facts makes any difference to certain alt-right worlders.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:24 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
According to the WAPO, the emails Booker leaked had been cleared for release, he just jumped the gun a little.
This will make expulsion almost impossible ( I never thought it was a realistic possibility anyway). On the other hand, it does make it look like Booker was indulging in a little bit of grandstanding.
I saw that whole exchange. Made me wonder if Grassley wasn't just covering his ass because there was no good reason those emails should have been confidential. Yesterday they had a big exchange, first they complained to Booker asking Kavanaugh questions about emails Booker hadn't given him to review. But Booker was prepared and gave a very polite condemnation of the Republicans making emails confidential when there was no reason for it. They ended with an agreement to reassess the confidential assignment.

I take it something happened either delaying the "we can discuss it" or something that made Booker go ahead anyway. But truth be had, the GOP looked very sleazy trying to keep so much material secret. It would look especially bad given the nature of what Booker made public, nothing that should have ever been secret.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:58 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Got any pictures of him passing out the long green to "protesters" like we have seen proven and admitted by the schlubs at the ongoing hearing??
Christ, no! Trump's way too cheap to actually hand over money to anybody.
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:29 AM   #304
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...43049609609216

Quote:
Harris says she had "reliable information" Kavanaugh was part of a convo about Mueller with someone from the firm of Trump's personal lawyer.

Kavanaugh: "The answer is no."

Harris: "Thank you. And it would have been great if you could have said that last night." (via CSPAN)
Video embedded in tweet.
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Old 7th September 2018, 06:13 AM   #305
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The morning news is repeating the I Am Spartacus moment of pure hilarity.

Cory: I am Spartacus, I stand ready to be punished!
The Forum: The Romans gave you your freedom yesterday, dope.
Cory: (running up to the nearest scroll writer) I AM SPPARRRRRRRRTACUUUUSS!!
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Old 7th September 2018, 06:35 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The morning news is repeating the I Am Spartacus moment of pure hilarity.

Cory: I am Spartacus, I stand ready to be punished!
The Forum: The Romans gave you your freedom yesterday, dope.
Cory: (running up to the nearest scroll writer) I AM SPPARRRRRRRRTACUUUUSS!!
Sounds great!
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Old 7th September 2018, 06:43 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I just started to. That was some funny stuff!
Enh. Coulter was funny during the Bush administration. Then a rapid descent into self-caricature and irrelevance. She's now basically an attention-whoring skeleton of a conservative pundit. Pushing her here doesn't do anyone any good.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:08 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Fair question. I think Murkowski is another moderate Republican. But two is not many and it's a long shot.

I think the conclusion is clear.
Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
My feeling was, when the Democrats started talking about documents instead of issues, they lost the confirmation battle. I think the Dems aren't going to fight this one hard because the base doesn't really care, and the DNC really doesn't want to lose any red state Dems in the Senate.
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
I find this to be a very odd position. In the first place, the documents are being used to bring up the issues of race and abortion. Secondly, Kavanaugh isn't going to own up to his positions on issues. Thirdly, Democrats are in the minority, and its not like they are going to change the Republican Senators minds on issues.

There is no confirmation battle. Republicans have the votes, and a few vulnerable Dems will use that as cover. The only thing that could stop it would be some sort of non-issue scandal.



I don't see how they could be fighting harder. They are really just powerless in this situation. SCOTUS control is a huge issue for the bases of both parties. Did you miss the absolutely devastated grieving when Kennedy announced his retirement? It was a political bombshell.
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Really? I got my Trump voting buddy to concede that they should have time to review the released documents.

It took some effort, and I had to put the unreleased documents aside, but he agreed in the end.

He's a decent guy, despite his vote.

To continue on the above, the Dems are playing a low probability shot, but it's still the best shot they have. They aren't trying to convince other dems or the public; they are trying to convince two Republicans. Any two. Now, there are two who have claimed that Kavanaugh's saying that Roe is settled law, that protecting Roe, is a test for them. That Kavanaugh doesn't actually act as if he believes it is (and said so to others), and has ruled in a staggeringly stupid way the one time he had any input on an abortion case should be some leverage. Trump also promised that he would only nominate off of the list he was given when he was a candidate; he lied. Lied right to the GOP because Kavanaugh was NOT on that list. Kavanaugh's bizarre belief that presidents shouldn't even be investigated should be a disqualifier for much of the GOP as well. How do you impeach a president you can't investigate? It's a frankly contemptibly stupid reading of the Constitution (note that I am still unclear on his exact legal support for that opinion as what he offers in support is not based in law). Listening to some more of the hearings to try to substantiate theprestige's claim from last page, I also noted the Senator from Hawaii called out his outstandingly hostile view on programs for native peoples, and she specifically called on her colleague from Alaska to consider the implications for her state. That would be Lisa Murkowski, good call phiwum, and she is also one of the Republican Senators who strongly supports Roe.

The Dems are working hard to do the work, and are making some very smart moves (even if they aren't going to work). They are showing the Republicans that Kavanaugh is NOT a nominee they should accept based on the Republicans own stated criteria. And really, they are absolutely right. There are plenty of judges I'd still oppose because of their political views who don't have the other huge problems with Kavanaugh that should disqualify him in the eyes of the GOP. McConnell even told the administration he's the hardest choice to confirm.

Some posters here are calling out the Democrats for doing the job, investigating the nominee and showing if they are a good pick or not, because they have political incentive to do so. The Republicans are not doing due diligence because they have political incentive to not do so, but that's ok for some reason?

To put this another way; the GOP has the votes to confirm Kavanaugh, so what are they afraid of? Why not release more documents? Because they know it might lose them some Senators not on the committee. They are not afraid of losing Democrats because they're not a get. If there was no risk of losing a GOP vote, there would be no benefit to doing the process dirty as they are. Of course just because it would be stupid to do it that way for no real benefit doesn't mean that isn't what is happening.
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Last edited by tyr_13; 7th September 2018 at 11:10 AM. Reason: capitilizaztion
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:13 AM   #309
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Released emails seem to show that Kavanaugh has committed perjury
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:15 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Vox with the counterpoint

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/7/1782932...earing-perjury

Quote:
The first instance, wherein Kavanaugh said he was “not involved in handling” Pryor’s nomination, isn’t even clearly “false.” The question that precedes it is a lengthy question from Senator Kennedy. One could argue that Kavanaugh thought Kennedy was asking whether Kavanaugh played a major role “in the vetting process” for Pryor, or discussed specific Constitutional doctrines with Pryor prior to Pryor’s nomination (Kennedy mentions Pryor’s reported views of the Supreme Court’s Miranda decision). Thus, Kavanaugh’s answer (“No. I was not involved in handling his nomination”) is truthful insofar as Kavanaugh understood “handling” to mean “in charge” of either vetting the person or shepherding that person’s nomination through the Senate. The fact that Kavanaugh apparently was invited to a meeting (and it is unclear from the email how many other people were invited) doesn’t necessarily demonstrate that Kavanaugh’s statement was untrue, much less that he intentionally lied or misled Senator Kennedy.

I don’t see any lie in [the second case]. Instead, he’s effectively saying, “Based on my own response, I don’t think I realized this was a stolen draft.”

That being said, senators are free to point out inconsistencies in testimony and question a judicial nominee about those perceived inconsistencies. And if the nominee does a poor job explaining such inconsistencies, senators can and should take that into account. But perjury is a serious crime, provable only by evidence that someone intentionally lied under oath. Based on what I have read so far, I cannot imagine any prosecutor pursuing either of these.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 7th September 2018 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:17 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You also claimed that they were getting paid afterwards, whereas the claim was that they were getting paid beforehand. And that "the guy" had admitted to paying protesters for "performances", whereas she actually claimed to be giving cash out to pay fines for protesters.

Perhaps if you'd linked to (or even read) the source of the story yourself you'd have reported the story correctly?
The idea that someone would offer to pay money for legal fees for committing acts of political violence is absolutely disgusting. As I hope TBD would agree.

Oops, that was Trump offering legal fees for his supporters violent acts!

https://www.google.com/search?q=trum...=silk&ie=UTF-8
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:18 AM   #312
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When hopes and dreams go up in smoke. Hillary in a landslide
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:19 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
So, they're going to withdraw his nomination and make him AG?
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:21 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As mentioned, this isn't a court case: it will be sufficient to convince two (R) Senators to see this as perjury.
And it sure looks that way so much that only a full jury could make the final ruling.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:23 AM   #315
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
As mentioned, this isn't a court case: it will be sufficient to convince two (R) Senators to see this as perjury.
And it sure looks that way so much that only a full jury could make the final ruling.
Squeegee invoked perjury.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:25 AM   #316
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Squeegee invoked perjury.
So?
Even if he obviously did commit perjury, the Republicans would never censure him for that.
But they might decide not to vote for him.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:28 AM   #317
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So?
Even if he obviously did commit perjury, the Republicans would never censure him for that.
But they might decide not to vote for him.
So, I put up something explaining why it isn't perjury. I wasn't affirming that perjury was the relevant framework.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:42 PM   #318
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Kavanaugh’s main problem is that Trump nominated him"
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:02 PM   #319
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Kavanaugh’s main problem is that Trump nominated him"
Actually, the main problem is that McConnell ****** up the nomination process by refusing to do his job with regards to Garland.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:11 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Kavanaugh’s main problem is that Trump nominated him"
I disagree. I think Kavanaugh would be getting exactly the same pushback if he'd been nominated by any Republican president.

If he'd been nominated by a Democrat? Not so much. Of course, a Democrat wouldn't have nominated him. Which is to say, Kavanaugh's main problem is that Hillary Clinton will never be president.
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