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Tags donald trump , Jonathan Chait , Putin conspiracies , Russia conspiracies , Trump conspiracies , vladimir putin

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Old 10th July 2018, 11:07 AM   #1
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Trump a Russian Sleeper Agent since 1987

This is an interesting article by Jonathan Chait in New York magazine about the upcoming Trump-Putin summit.

Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler?

Key points:
  • After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime.
  • He has borrowed zillions from Russians and sold them a bunch of property. His financial connections to Russia are way too many to list here.
  • We know that Russia has an active intelligence program - including using Kompromat - to recruit assets in foreign countries.
  • Much of the infamous Steele Dossier has been more or less confirmed.
  • Russia exerted considerable effort backing Trump's election campaign for President.
  • Trump has been almost comical in his open support for Russia since the election - changing the Republican party platform on arming Ukraine, saying nice things about Putin while bashing our closest allies, etc. etc. etc.

As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:18 AM   #2
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The Muscovian Candidate!
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Old 10th July 2018, 11:18 AM   #3
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Front page NYT and CNN tomorrow!
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:11 PM   #5
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Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.
If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:09 PM   #7
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Trump would see such an arrangement as Russia working for him, rather than he other way around.
He would be wrong, of course.
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:33 PM   #8
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Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!
Well, he's a journalist.
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:45 PM   #10
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By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!
Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality?
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Old 10th July 2018, 01:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality?
He is alive and just nominated by Trump for the US Supreme Court. Why do you ask?
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Old 10th July 2018, 02:06 PM   #13
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Can one of you two explain the above exchange please?
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Old 10th July 2018, 02:17 PM   #14
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I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.
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Old 10th July 2018, 02:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.
When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering.
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Old 10th July 2018, 03:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering.
That would be unfortunate. What the country needs is an investigation that focuses on election interference.
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Old 10th July 2018, 05:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.
I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.
Come on, the actions of Dear Leader are not to be questioned.
Frankly, there is no evidence, however convincing, that will convince our Trump worshippers that Dear Leader is capable of misdeeds or errors, Admit that, and it endangers their precious tax cuts.
And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut.
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:34 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!
Just outstanding!

Nommed!
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.

I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that. )
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Old 10th July 2018, 08:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that. : D)
It's a conspiracy theory. We're already way past equivocation fallacies.
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Old 10th July 2018, 08:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut.
...which they won't ever get.
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Old 11th July 2018, 07:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.
Oh, I saw that thread but never read it. I love the opening:

Quote:
The MANDELA Effect.

I am sure anyone reading this is aware of the 'Mandela effect'.
Other than the fact that anyone making it to the second line should have read the first line … no.
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Old 11th July 2018, 07:38 AM   #24
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The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.
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Old 11th July 2018, 07:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
[*]After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime.[/list]
As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?
*That one*.

So Trump visits Russia and gets huge "loans" from them, he then out of the blue takes out an ad, at $95,000 ($215,000 in present day dollars), attacking US spending on protecting our allies. In a time of a booming economy and Reagan outspending the Soviet military... thats how he starts out a planned political career

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir...b7l#.pjkEM1yG6
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
……. Dear Leader ……...Trump worshippers...…..
Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks.
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:46 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks.
I'd like to see it taken out of politics, too, but that would be like removing a bucket of piss from an ocean of piss.
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Old 11th July 2018, 11:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.

This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!"
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Old 11th July 2018, 12:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move.
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Old 11th July 2018, 01:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?
Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me.

Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent.

His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis.

Trump is 100% Putin's bitch.
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Old 11th July 2018, 02:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move.
But you might just be a Russian agent saying that so we do not believe the accusation that Germany... I mean Trump... no, I think I mean Germany is beholden to Russia...

Oh I am so confused!
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Old 11th July 2018, 02:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me.

Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent.

His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis.

Trump is 100% Putin's bitch.
I agree. For me there is no question that Trump identifies strongly with Putin, allies with him, and repeatedly favors Russia's interests at the expense of those of the USA. I believe Trump's views come from his general love of powerful strongmen, his delusion that he has a special man-to-man chemistry with Putin, and a web of financial benefits he has, or hopes to obtain from his Russia connections. Plus bullies such as Trump attack those they perceive as weaker than they are, but are afraid of and act obsequiously with those they believe to be more powerful. Agree with my view or not, it falls solidly within USA politics.

However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence).

No matter what it may prove more pleasant to discuss these ideas here than in USA Politics.
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Old 11th July 2018, 02:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence).


It makes an interesting test case of the difference between an actual conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory, and how to prove that, what some people assume to be the latter, is actually the former.

Sure, at present, there's no actual evidence that Trump is an agent of Russia, but so far, nothing that's been claimed has been physically impossible, or fundamentally contradictory.

Consider the CT that the 9/11 attacks were created as an excuse to invade Iraq. This directly contradicts the fact that the list of people who were alleged to carry out the attacks contained no people from Iraq, or with ties to Iraq. This Russia Theory doesn't seem to have any such logically unlikely elements. It fundamentally makes logical sense:
  1. Russia desires to reduce the influence/power of the US
  2. They seek to do this by suborning powerful individuals
  3. Trump needed money, and was easily influenced
  4. Russia bought Trump, and gradually established dominance over him
  5. Over the course of many years, Trump has stepped up his attacks on US interests
  6. This follows the notion of Russia gradually establishing more and more control over him
  7. Russia helped him get elected
  8. Now that he's President, he's directly supporting Russia's interests
  9. Now that he's President, he's directly opposing the interests of traditional US allies

If you were a foreign power looking to subvert the US, this wouldn't be a bad way to do it. Every step advances that agenda, and no steps oppose it. Again, there's no evidence for it, but it's entirely plausible.
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Old 11th July 2018, 03:04 PM   #34
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Trump has redefined the phrase "Useful Idiot".

He's not a sleeper agent, just a guy who is in deep with the wrong people.

I find it funny that here on the Conspiracy Theory board that I debate/argue with people about imaginary CT's while this multi-layered conspiracy is unfolding in broad daylight, and nobody seems to care.

From the outside it looks like the FSB used our own weapon against us in with the data stolen by Edward Snowden:

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

All the crap I have to wade through on this board about MKUltra, and here you have a real-world strategy using social media to advance a political cause. The NSA wasn't the first to think this up, advertising think-tanks in this country and Europe, and Facebpook themselves researched the concept. Facebook conducted experiments on its unsuspecting users to see how positive news affect them, and then how negative news affected them.

I want to think there will be a course correction in November but I'm not seeing the numbers yet.
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Old 11th July 2018, 10:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!



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Old 11th July 2018, 10:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post

That's what you get when you put a failed, obnoxious, self-important, crooked businessman in charge of a powerful country
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Old 12th July 2018, 12:28 AM   #37
Venom
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No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.

Last edited by Venom; 12th July 2018 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:15 AM   #38
Horatius
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.


Which makes him the perfect candidate for deep-cover!
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:21 AM   #39
Darat
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.
He's the very best deep-cover operative - so deep he doesn't even know it himself!


________


Slightly more seriously, no, just no.
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Old 12th July 2018, 07:34 AM   #40
Hellbound
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He's the very best deep-cover operative - so deep he doesn't even know it himself!


________


Slightly more seriously, no, just no.
Heck, he's at least hip-deep every time he opens his mouth
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