Trump a Russian Sleeper Agent since 1987

carlitos · 10th July 2018, 11:07 AM

This is an interesting article by Jonathan Chait in New York magazine about the upcoming Trump-Putin summit.

Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler?

Key points:

After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime.
He has borrowed zillions from Russians and sold them a bunch of property. His financial connections to Russia are way too many to list here.
We know that Russia has an active intelligence program - including using Kompromat - to recruit assets in foreign countries.
Much of the infamous Steele Dossier has been more or less confirmed.
Russia exerted considerable effort backing Trump's election campaign for President.
Trump has been almost comical in his open support for Russia since the election - changing the Republican party platform on arming Ukraine, saying nice things about Putin while bashing our closest allies, etc. etc. etc.

As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?

Trebuchet · 10th July 2018, 11:18 AM

The Muscovian Candidate!

sir drinks-a-lot · 10th July 2018, 11:18 AM

Front page NYT and CNN tomorrow!

theprestige · 10th July 2018, 12:03 PM

Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.

carlitos · 10th July 2018, 12:11 PM

Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!

carlitos · 10th July 2018, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.

If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.

The Great Zaganza · 10th July 2018, 01:09 PM

Trump would see such an arrangement as Russia working for him, rather than he other way around.
He would be wrong, of course.

Giordano · 10th July 2018, 01:33 PM

Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!

theprestige · 10th July 2018, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!

Well, he's a journalist.

theprestige · 10th July 2018, 01:45 PM

By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.

The Great Zaganza · 10th July 2018, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!

Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality?

Giordano · 10th July 2018, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality?

He is alive and just nominated by Trump for the US Supreme Court. Why do you ask?

carlitos · 10th July 2018, 02:06 PM

Can one of you two explain the above exchange please?

Giordano · 10th July 2018, 02:17 PM

I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.

Axxman300 · 10th July 2018, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.

When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering.

theprestige · 10th July 2018, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering.

That would be unfortunate. What the country needs is an investigation that focuses on election interference.

ddt · 10th July 2018, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.

I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.

dudalb · 10th July 2018, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.

Come on, the actions of Dear Leader are not to be questioned.
Frankly, there is no evidence, however convincing, that will convince our Trump worshippers that Dear Leader is capable of misdeeds or errors, Admit that, and it endangers their precious tax cuts.
And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut.

smartcooky · 10th July 2018, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!

Just outstanding!

Nommed!

This is The End · 10th July 2018, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.

I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that.

)

theprestige · 10th July 2018, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by This is The End

I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that. : D)

It's a conspiracy theory. We're already way past equivocation fallacies.

Norman Alexander · 10th July 2018, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut.

...which they won't ever get.

carlitos · 11th July 2018, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by ddt

I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.

Oh, I saw that thread but never read it. I love the opening:

Quote:

The MANDELA Effect.

I am sure anyone reading this is aware of the 'Mandela effect'.

Other than the fact that anyone making it to the second line should have read the first line … no.

Cleon · 11th July 2018, 07:38 AM

The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.

lobosrul5 · 11th July 2018, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

[*]After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime.[/list]
As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?

*That one*.

So Trump visits Russia and gets huge "loans" from them, he then out of the blue takes out an ad, at $95,000 ($215,000 in present day dollars), attacking US spending on protecting our allies. In a time of a booming economy and Reagan outspending the Soviet military... thats how he starts out a planned political career

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir...b7l#.pjkEM1yG6

carlitos · 11th July 2018, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

……. Dear Leader ……...Trump worshippers...…..

Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks.

theprestige · 11th July 2018, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks.

I'd like to see it taken out of politics, too, but that would be like removing a bucket of piss from an ocean of piss.

Horatius · 11th July 2018, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.

This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!"

timhau · 11th July 2018, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!"

Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move.

The Atheist · 11th July 2018, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?

Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me.

Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent.

His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis.

Trump is 100% Putin's bitch.

Giordano · 11th July 2018, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move.

But you might just be a Russian agent saying that so we do not believe the accusation that Germany... I mean Trump... no, I think I mean Germany is beholden to Russia...

Oh I am so confused!

Giordano · 11th July 2018, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me.

Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent.

His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis.

Trump is 100% Putin's bitch.

I agree. For me there is no question that Trump identifies strongly with Putin, allies with him, and repeatedly favors Russia's interests at the expense of those of the USA. I believe Trump's views come from his general love of powerful strongmen, his delusion that he has a special man-to-man chemistry with Putin, and a web of financial benefits he has, or hopes to obtain from his Russia connections. Plus bullies such as Trump attack those they perceive as weaker than they are, but are afraid of and act obsequiously with those they believe to be more powerful. Agree with my view or not, it falls solidly within USA politics.

However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence

).

No matter what it may prove more pleasant to discuss these ideas here than in USA Politics.

Horatius · 11th July 2018, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence

).

It makes an interesting test case of the difference between an actual conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory, and how to prove that, what some people assume to be the latter, is actually the former.

Sure, at present, there's no actual evidence that Trump is an agent of Russia, but so far, nothing that's been claimed has been physically impossible, or fundamentally contradictory.

Consider the CT that the 9/11 attacks were created as an excuse to invade Iraq. This directly contradicts the fact that the list of people who were alleged to carry out the attacks contained no people from Iraq, or with ties to Iraq. This Russia Theory doesn't seem to have any such logically unlikely elements. It fundamentally makes logical sense:

Russia desires to reduce the influence/power of the US
They seek to do this by suborning powerful individuals
Trump needed money, and was easily influenced
Russia bought Trump, and gradually established dominance over him
Over the course of many years, Trump has stepped up his attacks on US interests
This follows the notion of Russia gradually establishing more and more control over him
Russia helped him get elected
Now that he's President, he's directly supporting Russia's interests
Now that he's President, he's directly opposing the interests of traditional US allies

If you were a foreign power looking to subvert the US, this wouldn't be a bad way to do it. Every step advances that agenda, and no steps oppose it. Again, there's no evidence for it, but it's entirely plausible.

Axxman300 · 11th July 2018, 03:04 PM

Trump has redefined the phrase "Useful Idiot".

He's not a sleeper agent, just a guy who is in deep with the wrong people.

I find it funny that here on the Conspiracy Theory board that I debate/argue with people about imaginary CT's while this multi-layered conspiracy is unfolding in broad daylight, and nobody seems to care.

From the outside it looks like the FSB used our own weapon against us in with the data stolen by Edward Snowden:

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

All the crap I have to wade through on this board about MKUltra, and here you have a real-world strategy using social media to advance a political cause. The NSA wasn't the first to think this up, advertising think-tanks in this country and Europe, and Facebpook themselves researched the concept. Facebook conducted experiments on its unsuspecting users to see how positive news affect them, and then how negative news affected them.

I want to think there will be a course correction in November but I'm not seeing the numbers yet.

Cheetah · 11th July 2018, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.

And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!

smartcooky · 11th July 2018, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!"

That's what you get when you put a failed, obnoxious, self-important, crooked businessman in charge of a powerful country

Venom · 12th July 2018, 12:28 AM

No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.

Horatius · 12th July 2018, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.

Which makes him the perfect candidate for deep-cover!

Darat · 12th July 2018, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

No he's not.

What a horrible candidate for deep-cover.

He's the very best deep-cover operative - so deep he doesn't even know it himself!

________

Slightly more seriously, no, just no.

Hellbound · 12th July 2018, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

He's the very best deep-cover operative - so deep he doesn't even know it himself!

________

Slightly more seriously, no, just no.

Heck, he's at least hip-deep every time he opens his mouth

10th July 2018, 11:07 AM	#1
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Trump a Russian Sleeper Agent since 1987 This is an interesting article by Jonathan Chait in New York magazine about the upcoming Trump-Putin summit. Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler? Key points: After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime. He has borrowed zillions from Russians and sold them a bunch of property. His financial connections to Russia are way too many to list here. We know that Russia has an active intelligence program - including using Kompromat - to recruit assets in foreign countries. Much of the infamous Steele Dossier has been more or less confirmed. Russia exerted considerable effort backing Trump's election campaign for President. Trump has been almost comical in his open support for Russia since the election - changing the Republican party platform on arming Ukraine, saying nice things about Putin while bashing our closest allies, etc. etc. etc. As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts?

10th July 2018, 11:18 AM	#2
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 18,735	The Muscovian Candidate!
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

10th July 2018, 11:18 AM	#3
sir drinks-a-lot Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 3,452	Front page NYT and CNN tomorrow!
	__________________ I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare

10th July 2018, 01:09 PM	#7
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,943	Trump would see such an arrangement as Russia working for him, rather than he other way around. He would be wrong, of course.
	__________________ Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.

10th July 2018, 01:47 PM	#11
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,943	Originally Posted by Giordano Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press. And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society! Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality?
	__________________ Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.

10th July 2018, 12:03 PM	#4
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.

10th July 2018, 12:11 PM	#5
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!

10th July 2018, 01:02 PM	#6
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Originally Posted by theprestige Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated. If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money.

10th July 2018, 01:33 PM	#8
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 14,856	Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press. And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!

10th July 2018, 01:40 PM	#9
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	Originally Posted by carlitos Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995! Well, he's a journalist.

10th July 2018, 01:45 PM	#10
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.

10th July 2018, 01:58 PM	#12
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 14,856	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Just out of curiosity: is Nelson Mandela alive or dead in your reality? He is alive and just nominated by Trump for the US Supreme Court. Why do you ask?

10th July 2018, 02:06 PM	#13
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Can one of you two explain the above exchange please?

10th July 2018, 02:17 PM	#14
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 14,856	I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.

10th July 2018, 02:38 PM	#15
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 3,321	Originally Posted by carlitos If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money. When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

10th July 2018, 03:15 PM	#16
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	Originally Posted by Axxman300 When the Mueller investigation winds up it will mostly focus on money laundering. That would be unfortunate. What the country needs is an investigation that focuses on election interference.

10th July 2018, 05:52 PM	#17
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 19,576	Originally Posted by Giordano I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong. I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.
	__________________ "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen

10th July 2018, 06:08 PM	#18
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 41,474	Originally Posted by carlitos If you listen to his sons talking about how much money they got from Russia, it does make you think. Premium real estate is a great way to wash money. Come on, the actions of Dear Leader are not to be questioned. Frankly, there is no evidence, however convincing, that will convince our Trump worshippers that Dear Leader is capable of misdeeds or errors, Admit that, and it endangers their precious tax cuts. And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

10th July 2018, 07:34 PM	#19
smartcooky Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 9,504	Originally Posted by Giordano Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press. And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society! Just outstanding! Nommed!
	__________________ _{As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920}

10th July 2018, 07:53 PM	#20
This is The End Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,477	Originally Posted by theprestige By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably. I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that. )
This is The End Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,477	__________________ ________________________

10th July 2018, 08:41 PM	#21
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	Originally Posted by This is The End I know that Equivocation Fallacy means something entirely different, but the name sure would be perfect for what you just did. (I almost made an actual Equivocation Fallacy by typing that. : D) It's a conspiracy theory. We're already way past equivocation fallacies.

10th July 2018, 08:43 PM	#22
Norman Alexander Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 3,236	Originally Posted by dudalb And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut. ...which they won't ever get.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

11th July 2018, 07:32 AM	#23
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Originally Posted by ddt I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered. Oh, I saw that thread but never read it. I love the opening: Quote: The MANDELA Effect. I am sure anyone reading this is aware of the 'Mandela effect'. Other than the fact that anyone making it to the second line should have read the first line … no.

11th July 2018, 07:38 AM	#24
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,659	The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

11th July 2018, 07:45 AM	#25
lobosrul5 Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 1,191	Originally Posted by carlitos []After visiting Russia in 1987, Trump's behavior changed, including first flirting with the idea of running for president, and spending $100,000 of his own money to take out ads ripping our NATO and other military allies for freeloading on our defense dime.[/list] As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts? That one*. So Trump visits Russia and gets huge "loans" from them, he then out of the blue takes out an ad, at $95,000 ($215,000 in present day dollars), attacking US spending on protecting our allies. In a time of a booming economy and Reagan outspending the Soviet military... thats how he starts out a planned political career https://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir...b7l#.pjkEM1yG6

11th July 2018, 10:36 AM	#26
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,700	Originally Posted by dudalb ……. Dear Leader ……...Trump worshippers...….. Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks.

11th July 2018, 10:46 AM	#27
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 30,107	Originally Posted by carlitos Could we please leave this stuff in Politics or wherever? Thanks. I'd like to see it taken out of politics, too, but that would be like removing a bucket of piss from an ocean of piss.

11th July 2018, 11:09 AM	#28
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 26,680	Originally Posted by Cleon The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous. This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!"
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

11th July 2018, 12:33 PM	#29
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 12,848	Originally Posted by Horatius This just in: "No, you're the one who's beholden to Russia!" Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

11th July 2018, 01:58 PM	#30
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21,511	Originally Posted by carlitos As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts? Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me. Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent. His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis. Trump is 100% Putin's bitch.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

11th July 2018, 02:05 PM	#31
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 14,856	Originally Posted by timhau Accusing the other guy of something you're doing yourself - a classic KGB move. But you might just be a Russian agent saying that so we do not believe the accusation that Germany... I mean Trump... no, I think I mean Germany is beholden to Russia... Oh I am so confused!

11th July 2018, 02:39 PM	#32
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 14,856	Originally Posted by The Atheist Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me. Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent. His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis. Trump is 100% Putin's bitch. I agree. For me there is no question that Trump identifies strongly with Putin, allies with him, and repeatedly favors Russia's interests at the expense of those of the USA. I believe Trump's views come from his general love of powerful strongmen, his delusion that he has a special man-to-man chemistry with Putin, and a web of financial benefits he has, or hopes to obtain from his Russia connections. Plus bullies such as Trump attack those they perceive as weaker than they are, but are afraid of and act obsequiously with those they believe to be more powerful. Agree with my view or not, it falls solidly within USA politics. However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence). No matter what it may prove more pleasant to discuss these ideas here than in USA Politics.

11th July 2018, 02:57 PM	#33
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 26,680	Originally Posted by Giordano However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence). It makes an interesting test case of the difference between an actual conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory, and how to prove that, what some people assume to be the latter, is actually the former. Sure, at present, there's no actual evidence that Trump is an agent of Russia, but so far, nothing that's been claimed has been physically impossible, or fundamentally contradictory. Consider the CT that the 9/11 attacks were created as an excuse to invade Iraq. This directly contradicts the fact that the list of people who were alleged to carry out the attacks contained no people from Iraq, or with ties to Iraq. This Russia Theory doesn't seem to have any such logically unlikely elements. It fundamentally makes logical sense: Russia desires to reduce the influence/power of the US They seek to do this by suborning powerful individuals Trump needed money, and was easily influenced Russia bought Trump, and gradually established dominance over him Over the course of many years, Trump has stepped up his attacks on US interests This follows the notion of Russia gradually establishing more and more control over him Russia helped him get elected Now that he's President, he's directly supporting Russia's interests Now that he's President, he's directly opposing the interests of traditional US allies If you were a foreign power looking to subvert the US, this wouldn't be a bad way to do it. Every step advances that agenda, and no steps oppose it. Again, there's no evidence for it, but it's entirely plausible.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

11th July 2018, 03:04 PM	#34
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 3,321	Trump has redefined the phrase "Useful Idiot". He's not a sleeper agent, just a guy who is in deep with the wrong people. I find it funny that here on the Conspiracy Theory board that I debate/argue with people about imaginary CT's while this multi-layered conspiracy is unfolding in broad daylight, and nobody seems to care. From the outside it looks like the FSB used our own weapon against us in with the data stolen by Edward Snowden: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ All the crap I have to wade through on this board about MKUltra, and here you have a real-world strategy using social media to advance a political cause. The NSA wasn't the first to think this up, advertising think-tanks in this country and Europe, and Facebpook themselves researched the concept. Facebook conducted experiments on its unsuspecting users to see how positive news affect them, and then how negative news affected them. I want to think there will be a course correction in November but I'm not seeing the numbers yet.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

11th July 2018, 10:10 PM	#35
Cheetah Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,058	Originally Posted by Giordano Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press. And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society!
Cheetah Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,058	__________________ "... when you dig my grave, could you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain" - DMB