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Old 10th August 2018, 03:31 PM   #1
Baylor
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White Americans and Europeans Murder at about the same rate

Looking at the FBI crime statistics and comparing it to the Wikipedia page of murder rates of European Countries, you'll find that White Americans and Europeans murder at roughly the same rate: somewhere between 1 - 1.6 per 100,000. White America's murder rate is on par with Finland or Belgium.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

Shouldn't people with guns have significantly higher murder rates than those who don't? I haven't seen the anti-gun extremeists mention this, let alone try to explain the phenomenon. I also find it a bit racist when Europeans evoke America's higher murder rate in a thinly-veiled attack on our minorities. This type of xenophobia shouldn't be tolerated.

Last edited by Baylor; 10th August 2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:15 PM   #2
p0lka
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It depends on how your laws define murder.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Looking at the FBI crime statistics and comparing it to the Wikipedia page of murder rates of European Countries, you'll find that White Americans and Europeans murder at roughly the same rate: somewhere between 1 - 1.6 per 100,000. White America's murder rate is on par with Finland or Belgium.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

Shouldn't people with guns have significantly higher murder rates than those who don't? I haven't seen the anti-gun extremeists mention this, let alone try to explain the phenomenon. I also find it a bit racist when Europeans evoke America's higher murder rate in a thinly-veiled attack on our minorities. This type of xenophobia shouldn't be tolerated.
Finland and Belgium have both ethnic minorities and legal gun owners too you know. Finland has quite liberal gun laws because hunting is a popular national pastime.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Finland and Belgium have both ethnic minorities and legal gun owners too you know. Finland has quite liberal gun laws because hunting is a popular national pastime.
US has 4 times as many guns per capita as Finland. 66 times as many as Belgium. I don't think European countries break down crimes rates by race.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
US has 4 times as many guns per capita as Finland. 66 times as many as Belgium. I don't think European countries break down crimes rates by race.
What point are you trying to make with this thread?
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
What point are you trying to make with this thread?
Please read the OP.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Please read the OP.
I have read it. What point are you trying to make? That ethnic minorities commit more crimes? That murder is the only crime which can be committed with a gun?

What, exactly?
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:54 PM   #8
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Very interesting statistics.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
US has 4 times as many guns per capita as Finland. 66 times as many as Belgium. I don't think European countries break down crimes rates by race.
Dividing humans into different races sort of went out of fashion in Europe around 1945.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:14 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
It depends on how your laws define murder.
It also depends on whether you're counting *arrests* or *homicides*. Can't help but note the discrepancy between the two data sets there.

(Also, the closest stat as far as the OP goes would be *convictions*, which isn't counted on either list. Comparing that would, of course, have a host of other issues, but the data presented here doesn't even address the assertion.)

sniff sniff What's that I smell?
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:18 PM   #11
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Dividing humans into different races sort of went out of fashion in Europe around 1945.
Are you new to the forum? It's very fashionable here.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:42 PM   #12
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Statistics on murder are worthless because they only count the incompetent murders. A murder done right isn't recognized as murder at all. Half of all deaths are actually murders, but you won't see too many people confessing just to set the statistics right.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Dividing humans into different races sort of went out of fashion in Europe around 1945.
The UK begs to differ, though they fashionably call it 'ethnicity.'
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:08 PM   #14
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

Odd, since we have a murder rate worse than Sudan's.

I don't love how these statistics are compiled because they don't appear to account for death from internal conflict, civil war or regional strife.
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:18 PM   #15
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I'm still not sure what the point is of trying to compare murder statistics between white Americans only and ethnically diverse European countries. The OP doesn't seem willing to explain either.

Surely whatever point is being made about murder stats it would be more sensible to compare the figures between different US states....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

I see Louisiana has a noticeably higher murder rate than the rest, I wonder why?
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:41 PM   #16
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Drug trafficking.
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Shouldn't people with guns have significantly higher murder rates than those who don't? I haven't seen the anti-gun extremeists mention this, let alone try to explain the phenomenon. I also find it a bit racist when Europeans evoke America's higher murder rate in a thinly-veiled attack on our minorities. This type of xenophobia shouldn't be tolerated.
Are you saying that the only people with guns in the US are whites?
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Are you saying that the only people with guns in the US are whites?
No
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Statistics on murder are worthless because they only count the incompetent murders. A murder done right isn't recognized as murder at all. Half of all deaths are actually murders, but you won't see too many people confessing just to set the statistics right.
If anything the between race difference is even higher in the US. Most unsolved murders are in black areas.
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Old 10th August 2018, 06:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

Odd, since we have a murder rate worse than Sudan's.

I don't love how these statistics are compiled because they don't appear to account for death from internal conflict, civil war or regional strife.
If you expect Sudan to compile accurate murder statistics you are grossly mistaken. Not sure if you are willingly being ignorant or not.

Last edited by Baylor; 10th August 2018 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
If anything the between race difference is even higher in the US. Most unsolved murders are in black areas.
Yeah, the homicide clearance rate in Chicago has plummeted because the community shooting victims and witnesses refuse to talk to the police.

But they can march and shut down highways near Wrigley field for some ******* reason.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:09 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
I have read it. What point are you trying to make? That ethnic minorities commit more crimes? That murder is the only crime which can be committed with a gun?

What, exactly?
Super smart, high-IQ skeptics have been saying for years the US as a "gun problem." There are literaly hundreds of threads on this topic. Tolerant, worldly, diversity-loving Europeans would mock Americans for their love of guns. The Europeans posters would point out the high murder rate in the US compared to that of Europe to support their claim. What they never bothered to mention was that those murders were largely committed by the ethnics miniorities in the US. Apparently, European posters on this board have a problem with blacks and hispanics since they commit the vast majority of the gun crime. I said this in the OP, that is incredibly racist.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
If anything the between race difference is even higher in the US. Most unsolved murders are in black areas.
You got cloth eyes? If you know it's a murder it's automatically an incompetent one. Look at the total deaths to get an idea of the real murder rate.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
US has 4 times as many guns per capita as Finland. 66 times as many as Belgium. I don't think European countries break down crimes rates by race.
Actually it's slightly less that twice Finland's rate. Finland is 45.3 guns per 100 people, and the US is 88.8 guns per 100 people. Switzerland is 45.7 per 100 people.

However this doesn't actually tell us how many people actually own a gun in these countries. According a recent study, just 14% of all gun owners (7.6 million people) own over half of all of the guns in the US. A quick bit of math then shows us that only 16.7% of Americans actually own a gun, the vast majority of them having 3 or less guns. (Note that this number is far lower than other surveys that suggest up to a third of Americans could own a gun.)

Without knowing the exact figures, we can't actually determine if the US really does has more people that have a gun per capita than countries like Finland and Switzerland.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah, the homicide clearance rate in Chicago has plummeted because the community shooting victims and witnesses refuse to talk to the police.
Snitches get stitches.

One of the major issues is that the victims have seen first hand that the police aren't able to protect them, so they are unwilling to put their lives and their families lives on the line by talking.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:35 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
If anything the between race difference is even higher in the US. Most unsolved murders are in black areas.
Most murders happen in areas of abject poverty.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:35 PM   #27
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I'm going by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

according to these sources 33% of Americans own a gun:

"There are approximately 650,000 people with at least one permit which means 12% of Finns own a firearm"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Finland


32% of Americans own guns
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/polit...ica/index.html

And that proves my point, the number of guns or gun ownership doesn't seem to increase the murder rate in white populations.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Snitches get stitches.

One of the major issues is that the victims have seen first hand that the police aren't able to protect them, so they are unwilling to put their lives and their families lives on the line by talking.
How is that working out for them?

Pro tip: really, really badly.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
How is that working out for them?

Pro tip: really, really badly.
are you suggesting that witnesses to a gang shooting are likely to have the thugs kick in their doors and threaten them even if they don't say anything to the police?
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:39 PM   #30
Baylor
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Most murders happen in areas of abject poverty.
Nope. Wealthy blacks murder more than poor whites

Last edited by Baylor; 10th August 2018 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:41 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Nope. Wealthy black neighborhoods have more murders than poor white neighborhoods.

Going to need a cite for that.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Nope. Wealthy blacks murder more than poor whites
Citation needed.

And I'd still like an answer to how you think recording race in crime stats would have prevented Rotherham.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
are you suggesting that witnesses to a gang shooting are likely to have the thugs kick in their doors and threaten them even if they don't say anything to the police?
Lol, no I am saying that they and their gang buddies go out looking for retaliation, so we had had five mass shooting events last weekend.

And a bunch of others shot up.

Hey but the community organizers marched to Wrigley Field, yay community.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Going to need a cite for that.
There are several. Here's one.

Quote:
Data indicate that although higher levels of wealth were associated with lower rates of incarceration, the likelihood of future incarceration still was higher for blacks at every level of wealth compared to the white likelihood, as well as the Hispanic likelihood, which fell below the white likelihood for some levels of wealth. Further, we find that racial wealth gaps existed among those who would be incarcerated in the future and also among the previously incarcerated.
Granted this is "incarceration" not murder, but there are other sources to back up my claim. it's hard to find them with Google blacklisting certain sites.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...552-016-9164-y
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Citation needed.

And I'd still like an answer to how you think recording race in crime stats would have prevented Rotherham.
'Public Service Announcement: "Asian" gangs targeting young white children. Don't worry about being called racist, protect your children.'
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:54 PM   #36
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Quote:
the likelihood of future incarceration still was higher for blacks at every level of wealth compared to the white likelihood
That does not support your claim that wealthy blacks commit more murders than poor whites.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:54 PM   #37
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yes it does
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:55 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Lol, no I am saying that they and their gang buddies go out looking for retaliation, so we had had five mass shooting events last weekend.

And a bunch of others shot up.

Hey but the community organizers marched to Wrigley Field, yay community.
So then it's working pretty good for the witnesses, cause the gangs spend their time shooting up each other, and not those that witness it and go hide under their bed rather then talk to the police.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
'Public Service Announcement: "Asian" gangs targeting young white children. Don't worry about being called racist, protect your children.'
Didn't you read your own link? One of the major problems in getting police to deal with these crimes is that they were afraid of being accused of racism. How on earth do you think recording race in crime statistics would remove that problem?

If anything, it would make it worse.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
yes it does
No it doesn't. It doesn't even show murder rates, let alone compare them by race or wealth.
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