ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

Reply
Old 12th September 2018, 05:39 PM   #1841
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,947
Originally Posted by River View Post
Do you think these ad campaigns contributed? If so, how much so.

https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10...d-to-congress/
Did you sleep through the 2016 election debriefing?

The fake news echo chamber on FB and Twitter, pushed by Russian trolls and bots, Trump's billions in free advertising by the major news networks that broadcast all his rallies live, help by Cambridge Analytica using the data from the DNC hacks that allowed specific voter targeting, and Comey's self serving blunder to go against normal SOPs all contributed to Clinton losing the EC. Paid ads were not an issue. Russia did it on the cheap. They apparently donated to a whole slew of GOP legislators' campaigns laundered through the NRA, but that is a different matter.


Originally Posted by River View Post
I find it entertaining how much everyone wants to classify someone as a trumpet, or not. This seems more important than the actual conversation to some. Definitely entertaining.

Lets hope the fisa documents become publicly available. This would be good for all Americans.
There has been more than adequate transparency about the FISA warrants. Only people getting their news diet from Fox and RT News are still clinging to the BS CT that any shenanigans went on re spying Carter Page.

Do you still believe Trump Tower was "wire tapped"?
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th September 2018 at 05:41 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2018, 06:04 PM   #1842
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,518
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I saw this series before, when it was called "Watergate".

Indeed! As time goes on, this looks more and more like Watergate 2.0
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2018, 06:27 PM   #1843
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,531
Originally Posted by River View Post
Yep, I'm well aware of what RT is and how they may be biased.

<snip>

It doesn't show. You hide it well.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 02:32 AM   #1844
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 75,771
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I saw this series before, when it was called "Watergate".
No, this one's a reboot. It's edgier.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 02:45 AM   #1845
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21,968
Originally Posted by River View Post
Yes, wishing people good luck in their hopes and dreams is a hissy fit. Peace out.
Since you actually came back after your last flounce, could you answer my question? How do you see the Mueller probe ending? I put my money where my mouth is and said what I think is likely.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:06 AM   #1846
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 44,580
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I understand that. Now, do you understand what a perjury trap is?
Yes it involves questions with no actual investigative purpose solely to try to go anomaly hunting for fallible human memory. It is basic prosecutorial misconduct and has nothing to do with any of the things Trump could be called to testify about.

Just because Trump can not tell the truth from a lie does not mean it is a perjury trap.

Clintons wasn't either. He should have had his lawyer object on the grounds that any relationship he had was not relevant to the paula jones case.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:15 AM   #1847
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,967
This "perjury" nonsense is incredibly childish.
As if lying to the FBI/perjury is going to make the top five of any indictments against Trump.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 11:58 AM   #1848
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 41,508
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Trump's closest adviser says he will fire Mueller after the hurricane.



Linky.
If that happens the GOP can probably kiss both houses of Congress goodbye in November.

And, in case you have not noticied, Sean Hannity is full of **** anyway.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by zooterkin; 14th September 2018 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Rule 10 - do not try to circumvent the autocensor
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 12:03 PM   #1849
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 75,771
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If that happens the GOP can probably kiss both houses of Congress goodbye in November.

And, in case you have not noticied, Sean Hannity is full of **** anyway.
It's really insane that such a lunatic as Hannity would be listened to by anyone, to say nothing about POTUS.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward



Last edited by zooterkin; 14th September 2018 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Rule 10 in quoted post
Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 01:30 PM   #1850
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,366
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If that happens the GOP can probably kiss both houses of Congress goodbye in November.

And, in case you have not noticied, Sean Hannity is full of **** anyway.
A Newsweek "story" quoting Sean Hannity might be in contention for least believable thing ever.

Last edited by zooterkin; 14th September 2018 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Rule 10 in quoted post
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:14 PM   #1851
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,843
Quote:
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has tentatively agreed to a plea deal with special counsel Robert Mueller that will head off his upcoming trial, sources familiar with the negotiations tell ABC News.
Linky.

So... There's still no actual plea deal?
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:17 PM   #1852
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,843
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
A Newsweek "story" quoting Sean Hannity might be in contention for least believable thing ever.
It's not about the veracity of what Hannity might say, it is about Trump's weird relationship with Hannity and FOX where he calls them all the time, and watches them all the time and gets advice.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:32 PM   #1853
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,366
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
It's not about the veracity of what Hannity might say, it is about Trump's weird relationship with Hannity and FOX where he calls them all the time, and watches them all the time and gets advice.
Oh, I get it. Still, I always hate clicking a Newsweek link. I could be more careful, I suppose, but I'd rather end up at the Fox News site.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 03:41 PM   #1854
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 41,508
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed! As time goes on, this looks more and more like Watergate 2.0
With at least one of the major actors..Bob Woodward... returning for an encore
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 04:02 PM   #1855
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 41,508
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Linky.

So... There's still no actual plea deal?
If true, that is going to be one hell of a meltdown at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 05:59 PM   #1856
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,518
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Linky.

So... There's still no actual plea deal?
Oh, there will be a plea deal alright.

Manafort has already been hammered on eight counts, and was very lucky to dodge the other ten counts with a hung jury. The SC hasn't yet decided if he's going to retry on those, and now Manafort is facing another eight counts on which is he almost certain to be found guilty.

If Manafort was simply trying to avoid the expense and stress of a trial, he would not need to negotiate any kind of deal...all he has to do is walk into the court and plead guilty. The fact that he is wanting a plea deal means he wants to both avoid these trials AND have a substantial reduction in his sentence... and I am quite certain that Mueller will not agree to any of that without Manafort flipping and giving full co-operation.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2018, 09:49 PM   #1857
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,473
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's really insane that such a lunatic as Hannity would be listened to by anyone, to say nothing about POTUS.
Given that Alex Jones has believers... Hannity and his totally unprincipled behavior is not a stretch.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 12:22 AM   #1858
Aber
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,381
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Linky.

So... There's still no actual plea deal?
IIRC there's a court hearing today in DC, which has been rescheduled from 9.30 to 11.
Aber is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 06:00 AM   #1859
Aber
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,381
And Fox News says Manafort will plead guilty

Quote:
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort will plead guilty in federal court Friday as part of a plea agreement with Special Counsel Robert Mueller, Fox News has learned.

Manafort, in a trial set to begin Sept. 24 in federal court in Washington, is facing seven counts of foreign lobbying violations and witness tampering.
Aber is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 06:14 AM   #1860
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,596
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
With at least one of the major actors..Bob Woodward... returning for an encore
A cameo, really. More of a wink/nod to the original series.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 07:15 AM   #1861
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,168
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/ex-t...t-mueller.html

The charging document, while accusing him of just two criminal counts, appears to be designed to resolve not only the entire case in Washington, but another federal criminal prosecution in Virginia, where Manafort was convicted of eight counts last month.

That new document alleges Manafort engaged in a conspiracy involving money laundering, tax fraud, failing to report foreign bank accounts, violating rules requiring registration of foreign agents, lying and witness tampering.



col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

"no collusion"
__________________
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 07:19 AM   #1862
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 11,681
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/ex-t...t-mueller.html

The charging document, while accusing him of just two criminal counts, appears to be designed to resolve not only the entire case in Washington, but another federal criminal prosecution in Virginia, where Manafort was convicted of eight counts last month.

That new document alleges Manafort engaged in a conspiracy involving money laundering, tax fraud, failing to report foreign bank accounts, violating rules requiring registration of foreign agents, lying and witness tampering.



col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

"no collusion"
Unfortunately, nothing I see here indicates that the conspiracy has to with Trump + Russia. I assume it has to do with Manafort's past dealings.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 07:20 AM   #1863
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,168
Also in the "there's a tweet for everything" category:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...56443985084417

I feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. “Justice” took a 12 year old tax case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him and, unlike Michael Cohen, he refused to “break” - make up stories in order to get a “deal.” Such respect for a brave man!

So brave. Very wow. Much bigly.
__________________
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 07:54 AM   #1864
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,744
Now, now, that tweet was three weeks ago. Much covfefe has passed since then.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:09 AM   #1865
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,718
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
It's not about the veracity of what Hannity might say, it is about Trump's weird relationship with Hannity and FOX where he calls them all the time, and watches them all the time and gets advice.
Well, The PDJT is going to need a job after this one.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:23 AM   #1866
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 14,031
Manafort will plead guilty to one count of conspiracy against the US and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice due to attempts to tamper with witnesses, according to a court filing Friday.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/14/polit...lea/index.html
__________________
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en

"Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:25 AM   #1867
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,716
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Well, The PDJT is going to need a job after this one.
Won't he have a job making license plates? Breaking rocks in a prison camp in the deep south?

We can hope at least. Probably be the first productive work he's ever done in his life.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:42 AM   #1868
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,967
But what can Manaford give Mueller, except a bunch of former-Soviet oligarchs?
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:46 AM   #1869
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,744
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Trump's closest adviser says he will fire Mueller after the hurricane.



Linky.
I'm puzzled why he would do it after the hurricane. Doing it during the storm would reduce the amount of coverage it gets on Fake News. Today is Friday, of course, so maybe we'll see it today.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:57 AM   #1870
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,544
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I so hope you are right
I hope for the truth, whatever it may be.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 08:59 AM   #1871
dasmiller
Just the right amount of cowbell
 
dasmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 5,939
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Now, now, that tweet was three weeks ago. Much covfefe has passed since then.
I believe the expression is "That's just anomyous under the covfefe"
__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt
dasmiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:00 AM   #1872
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,716
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But what can Manaford give Mueller, except a bunch of former-Soviet oligarchs?
Well, Manafort was at the Trump tower meeting, so he could give both a better accounting of what was discussed there and whether Trump was either physically at the meeting or was listening on speakerphone. He may also be aware of information given to Trump about the Russian activities (if he was part of any briefings).

Given his history with Trump, he may also be able to point to other financial crimes Trump has engaged in pre-election. And if he doesn't have information on Trump, he may still have information on Stone.

This is of course assuming the plea deal involves an agreement to fully cooperate with the investigation, and isn't just a "Save the cost of an expensive trial" type agreement.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:10 AM   #1873
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,744
Ken "Popehat" White tweets about the Manafort plea deal.

The TLDR: He's never seen one like this.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:15 AM   #1874
dasmiller
Just the right amount of cowbell
 
dasmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 5,939
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Ken "Popehat" White tweets about the Manafort plea deal.

The TLDR: He's never seen one like this.
I'd sort of assumed that Mueller & co put so much stuff into the document so that it would all be in the public record if Trump shut down the investigation.
__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt
dasmiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:15 AM   #1875
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,947
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But what can Manaford give Mueller, except a bunch of former-Soviet oligarchs?
From the CNN link above:
Quote:
Kilimnik is charged as a co-defendant in Manafort's DC criminal case, for the witness tampering accusation. In previous court filings, prosecutors allege he had ties to the Russian GRU, a military intelligence agency. Kilimnik has not appeared in court, though Manafort's plea Friday admits that he committed his crimes in conspiracy with both Gates and Kilimnik.
Heavy: Five Fast Facts about Kilimnik
Quote:
1. The Meetings In Question Reportedly Took Place During the Campaign

... In an interview February 22, Kilimnik said that he and Manafort would meet “every couple months” during the election, but denied the meetings having anything to do with Russia. Instead, he said that he was briefing Manafort on matters in Ukraine.

One of the meetings in question took place during an April 2016 trip to the U.S. by Kilimnik. During one of the conversations they had a year ago, one of the subjects was the hacking of the emails of the Democratic National Committee, POLITICO’s story wrote. But Manafort had said it was unknown at the time which nation was behind the act.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:24 AM   #1876
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18,142
Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I'd sort of assumed that Mueller & co put so much stuff into the document so that it would all be in the public record if Trump shut down the investigation.
Oh, I am willing to bet that Mueller has a backup plan in the event of his firing.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:27 AM   #1877
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,168
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Ken "Popehat" White tweets about the Manafort plea deal.

The TLDR: He's never seen one like this.
But more importantly:

https://twitter.com/hsu_spencer/stat...22491029438464
Prosecutor Andrew Weissmann states that plea deal includes 17 page cooperation agreement

I think trump is getting mana-something-that-the-auto-filter-did-not-catch

ETA: wapo link

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.6d3b2af4f1a3
__________________
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

Last edited by TheL8Elvis; 14th September 2018 at 09:35 AM.
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:42 AM   #1878
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,689
It's a shame to see a good man brought down by a "conspiracy involving money laundering" trap, "tax fraud" trap, "failing to report foreign bank accounts" trap, "violating rules requiring registration of foreign agents" trap, and "witness tampering" trap set by the dastardly FBI.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:43 AM   #1879
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,947
Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I'd sort of assumed that Mueller & co put so much stuff into the document so that it would all be in the public record if Trump shut down the investigation.
I just skimmed the Superceding Criminal Information and there's little to no information there which involves the campaign or Trump. Lots of lobbying on behalf of Ukraine but most of it was before the campaign. Tons of money laundering and tax evasion. Some phone calls where D1 and D2 are mentioned, Manafort setting up communication with said individuals directly. That might be call to Trump but there's not a whole lot there except connecting the calls.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 09:48 AM   #1880
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 4,567
I think with everything we've seen so far it's an accurate description to say we haven't seen anything tied to Trump specifically with regards to Russian Collusion. This makes me wonder if, even if they find a ton of financial\white collar crimes, would the GOP even do anything? I truly believe they'd say, "Well, it wasn't about Russia or the election. We won't impeach over something he never did as president\candidate."

Which saddens me. Mueller almost has to find Trump saying to a room full of people, "Thank God for those Russians helping me get elected" on the election night in order for anyone on the right to even acknowledge wrongdoing.
__________________
"All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:31 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.