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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 21st May 2020, 11:04 PM   #2521
lionking
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As a past public servant I’m extremely dubious that this was not immediately picked up. There was modelling done without doubt to predict the uptake of Jobkeeper. I’m convinced that a senior bureaucrat pointed this error out to a Minister who said “let it run”.

Don’t forget, not every conspiracy is imaginary.....
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:16 PM   #2522
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
As a past public servant I’m extremely dubious that this was not immediately picked up. There was modelling done without doubt to predict the uptake of Jobkeeper. I’m convinced that a senior bureaucrat pointed this error out to a Minister who said “let it run”.

Don’t forget, not every conspiracy is imaginary.....
There have been some amusing reactions on Twitter:

Originally Posted by Lucy Carter (@lucethoughts)
BREAKING: Journalists stoked to learn they are no longer the worst at maths.
Originally Posted by David Smith (@dtsmith_sydney)
All I can think about is what it must have been like in the office when someone discovered the $60 billion mistake, and the resulting conversation about who was going to tell everyone.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:54 AM   #2523
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There have been some amusing reactions on Twitter:
I saw Frydenberg trying to explain away the mistake. Pathetic. He’s even makes Albanese look good. His comment “you could see this from outer space” is a credit to his Press Secretary.

Again, it is beyond belief that this wasn’t immediately picked up and communicated up the line. “Okay, 1500 people employed by **** Creek Milk Bar, yeah that’s okay”.

I understand bureaucrats. They are not stupid. These things were discovered, reported and covered up.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:11 PM   #2524
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I saw Frydenberg trying to explain away the mistake. Pathetic. He’s even makes Albanese look good. His comment “you could see this from outer space” is a credit to his Press Secretary.

Again, it is beyond belief that this wasn’t immediately picked up and communicated up the line. “Okay, 1500 people employed by **** Creek Milk Bar, yeah that’s okay”.

I understand bureaucrats. They are not stupid. These things were discovered, reported and covered up.
Should have been worked out even before the policy was announced. They should have said that so many workers (via their employers) will apply and then when even more applied then questions should have been asked. Then the error found within a few days as per lionking's example.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:24 PM   #2525
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Interesting how some of the media are reporting this as a $60 billion "windfall".
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Old 22nd May 2020, 07:30 PM   #2526
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Interesting how some of the media are reporting this as a $60 billion "windfall".
That is because Josh Frydenberg initially attempted to claim that the reason for this "windfall" was not a clerical error, but
"that the economy was doing better than Treasury initially estimated and as a result, fewer people were signing up for JobKeeper."

So embarrassment.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:02 PM   #2527
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
That is because Josh Frydenberg initially attempted to claim that the reason for this "windfall" was not a clerical error, but
"that the economy was doing better than Treasury initially estimated and as a result, fewer people were signing up for JobKeeper."

So embarrassment.
Another take from Trump's playbook. Never admit an error, simply lie.

In this case, though, it's a lie that can be seen from space.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:21 PM   #2528
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Another take from Trump's playbook. Never admit an error, simply lie.

In this case, though, it's a lie that can be seen from space.
and It was a great lie, a beautiful lie, we have the best lies, but, I think there's blame on both sides, you look at both sides, I think there's blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:38 PM   #2529
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Re: the $15,000 answer instead of 1 employee being the point of contention, what was the actual question asked on the form?

I would have thought to ask:

1. How many employees do you require to be on Jobcare? (or whatever it is called)

and

2. Total $ amount requested?

No employer should get that wrong, and no Gov. agency should need glowing neon signs to find errors in this double question/answer when looking at the data.





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Last edited by fromdownunder; 22nd May 2020 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:58 PM   #2530
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Re: the $15,000 answer instead of 1 employee being the point of contention, what was the actual question asked on the form?

I would have thought to ask:

1. How many employees do you require to be on Jobcare? (or whatever it is called)

and

2. Total $ amount requested?

No employer should get that wrong, and no Gov. agency should need glowing neon signs to find errors in this double question/answer when looking at the data.





Norm
Indeed. One report I read said that 10% of employers got that question wrong, but the issue is that in doing so most were overstating their staff by 100s of times.

The possibility that this wasn’t immediately picked up and remedied should see heads roll, up to and including the Treasurer.

As I said earlier I have no doubt this was immediately picked up and someone up the food chain said “no leave it. This will show how much the government is doing and if it’s picked up we’ll blame stupid employers”. This is the only scenario that makes sense to me.
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Old 24th May 2020, 02:06 PM   #2531
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Indeed. One report I read said that 10% of employers got that question wrong, but the issue is that in doing so most were overstating their staff by 100s of times.

The possibility that this wasn’t immediately picked up and remedied should see heads roll, up to and including the Treasurer.

As I said earlier I have no doubt this was immediately picked up and someone up the food chain said “no leave it. This will show how much the government is doing and if it’s picked up we’ll blame stupid employers”. This is the only scenario that makes sense to me.
You would hope so, but... Let me introduce you to the concept of "a jobsworth". The Australian Public Services, as with many around the world, is filled to the brim with these.

Right now, with a job and a decent income being a precious thing to have, any rocking of the boat by a lower-grade staffer would put that immediately in jeopardy. Trying to tell the Treasurer, one of the senior ministers of the Federal Government, that his form about a controversial policy has been a might goof-up could lead to blame being cast downwards...on the message-bearer particularly. Can't have that!

So if it was even noticed at all as being "wrong", nobody was actually going to tell anybody...let the big boss get the big bucks for taking that responsibility.
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Old 25th May 2020, 12:07 AM   #2532
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Re: the $15,000 answer instead of 1 employee being the point of contention, what was the actual question asked on the form?
There was an actual screenshot of the question on the daily blog but it doesn't seem to appear in the full article I linked to.

Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I would have thought to ask:

1. How many employees do you require to be on Jobcare? (or whatever it is called)
This was the question, in pretty much these words.

Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
and

2. Total $ amount requested?
This was not asked at all from what I recall of the screenshot.

Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
No employer should get that wrong, and no Gov. agency should need glowing neon signs to find errors in this double question/answer when looking at the data.
Yeah. I find it difficult to believe so many employers could mess up answering one simple, very clear question. How many people?
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Old 25th May 2020, 12:12 AM   #2533
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Ah, here it is.



Seriously. How can you mess that up?
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Old 25th May 2020, 12:19 AM   #2534
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ah, here it is.

https://i.imgur.com/JgoWIYA.jpg

Seriously. How can you mess that up?
Deliberately. Just put in a big number and hope nobody notices when you multiply it by $1500 per.

Oh look. They didn't.
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Old 25th May 2020, 11:45 PM   #2535
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Oh for...

Public servant alleging ministerial corruption told speaking to media could be unlawful

Quote:
Advice was given that a generic online form should be used to contact PM’s office, highlighting flaws in corruption reporting regime


A public servant claiming to have evidence of ministerial corruption was warned speaking to journalists may be unlawful and later directed to use a generic online form for contacting the prime minister, leaked correspondence shows.

The emails between an anonymous public servant and the Australian Public Sector Commission again highlight fundamental flaws in Australia’s corruption reporting regime.

The system makes it near-impossible for public servants to lawfully speak publicly about alleged corruption, and instead works to funnel their complaints internally through their departmental or ministerial superiors.
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Old Yesterday, 12:50 AM   #2536
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Every department needs an area that looks at complaints about the department. It does not matter if the person is internal or external to the department. This area needs several methods of contacting them. This area should act as a deterrent to any bad behaviour. And it should be seen to be working.
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Old Yesterday, 01:04 AM   #2537
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Every department needs an area that looks at complaints about the department. It does not matter if the person is internal or external to the department. This area needs several methods of contacting them. This area should act as a deterrent to any bad behaviour. And it should be seen to be working.
How is anyone supposed to run a racket in those conditions?
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