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Old 6th September 2018, 05:50 AM   #1
Mycroft
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NY Times editorial bombshell

I can't believe there isn't a thread about this already, but yesterday's New York Times contained an anonymous editorial by a "senior official in the Trump administration" who says:

"President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

...

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

...

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making."


Jimmy Kimmel has put forth a theory that Mike Pence wrote it.
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Old 6th September 2018, 05:52 AM   #2
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Its being discussed in the Trump Presidency thread.
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Old 6th September 2018, 05:54 AM   #3
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If Mike Pence didn't write it, the author including the "lodestar" language was pretty clever. Dropping as many red herrings as possible would simultaneously protect the author's true identity and sew maximum chaos into the White House, which would probably qualify as resistance behavior.

Whoever wrote that op-ed must have known that it would be closely scrutinized. I don't think it's far fetched that some deliberate misdirection would be used.
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Old 6th September 2018, 05:54 AM   #4
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Whomever wrote it should stop being such a pussy and work to invoke the 25th. In the article they identify Trump as completely unable to perform his duties, and if the author is to be believed as a senior official, he or she swore an oath to protect the constitution of the US.

What is being described in the article is that Trump officials are actively sabotaging the President. However bad the President is, this is a real problem, and however funny we think it is, it's treasonous behavior.

If Trump is unfit (he absolutely is), he should be removed.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Whomever wrote it should stop being such a pussy and work to invoke the 25th. In the article they identify Trump as completely unable to perform his duties, and if the author is to be believed as a senior official, he or she swore an oath to protect the constitution of the US.

What is being described in the article is that Trump officials are actively sabotaging the President. However bad the President is, this is a real problem, and however funny we think it is, it's treasonous behavior.

If Trump is unfit (he absolutely is), he should be removed.
I tend to agree with this. While it brings me happiness that the Trump administration is severely dysfunctional, this isn't a move that I can really praise.

The author is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Taking a firm, open stance against the presidency would mean losing the ability to push their own agenda.

That's the whole devil's bargain with Trump for the establishment conservatives. They get their tax cuts and judicial appointments, but have to deal with Trump's worst qualities. No amount of foot dragging will clean their hands of this presidency.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:25 AM   #6
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Aug 28:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...tar-2018-08-28

It's being discussed on the webster's twitter account, too:

https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/s...47893274292229

I am truly curious about what inspired/"triggered" them to choose that word 2 days before McCain died...

Someone could just email them and ask, too:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/contact-us

Email would probably have a better chance of getting a response than social media.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:28 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Whomever wrote it should stop being such a pussy and work to invoke the 25th. In the article they identify Trump as completely unable to perform his duties, and if the author is to be believed as a senior official, he or she swore an oath to protect the constitution of the US.

What is being described in the article is that Trump officials are actively sabotaging the President. However bad the President is, this is a real problem, and however funny we think it is, it's treasonous behavior.

If Trump is unfit (he absolutely is), he should be removed.
Yup. S/he doesn't come out of this well, even if s/he is trying to paint him/herself as the hero.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I can't believe there isn't a thread about this already, but yesterday's New York Times contained an anonymous editorial by a "senior official in the Trump administration" who says:
....
I just note that an editorial is written by a newspaper's editorial staff (usually separate from the news staff) to express the opinion of the newspaper itself. What the NYT printed was an op-ed (opposite the editorial page) column or article in which the writer is speaking for him/herself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/b...anonymous.html

The Times' news staff is now tasked with uncovering the identity of the writer that the editorial staff is committed to keeping secret.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...es-oped-809111
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:35 AM   #9
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It reads to me like it was written by Kissinger, who used the word "lodestar" at McCain's funeral. Whoever wrote it seemed to be going for maximum "destabilization" of the Donald's brain cells. LOL "The news media demonizes Trump's closest aids and staffers, but THEY are heroes because they are sabotaging him behind his back! Those who he believes are his closest friends are secretly his enemies"
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:46 AM   #10
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I think it was Nikki Haley.
She's friends/friendly with Kissinger, hates Russia...all the ideological alignments with the letter are correct, as far as I can tell.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:47 AM   #11
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The anonymity was supposedly to protect the person from being fired. Trump can't fire his VP so it makes me think it's not Pence.
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
The anonymity was supposedly to protect the person from being fired. Trump can't fire his VP so it makes me think it's not Pence.
He couldn't fire Pence, but he could certainly quarantine him from the day to day business of the white house. "We installed an xbox in your office, don't come out until dinner time".
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:55 AM   #13
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Also, "steady state, not deep state"?

That is THE MOST HENRY KISSINGER thing ever said. lol

#NYTanon = Nikki Haley
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Whomever wrote it should stop being such a pussy and work to invoke the 25th. In the article they identify Trump as completely unable to perform his duties, and if the author is to be believed as a senior official, he or she swore an oath to protect the constitution of the US.

What is being described in the article is that Trump officials are actively sabotaging the President. However bad the President is, this is a real problem, and however funny we think it is, it's treasonous behavior.

If Trump is unfit (he absolutely is), he should be removed.
Why is it "treasonous"?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:00 AM   #15
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I think it's just the start of operations plotted by that Machiavellian mastermind, Omarosa. She may be out of the White House but she left behind her own personal Operation Gladio. Her agents and allies will continue to work her agenda to topple the orange one and send him gibbering to the madhouse. He will rue the day he crossed the mighty Omarosa, if he's not ruing already. A ruer he shall be, so much ruing, my stars.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
....
What is being described in the article is that Trump officials are actively sabotaging the President. However bad the President is, this is a real problem, and however funny we think it is, it's treasonous behavior.
...
Treason is action against the nation. Trump, despite his delusions, is not the same as the nation.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think it's just the start of operations plotted by that Machiavellian mastermind, Omarosa. She may be out of the White House but she left behind her own personal Operation Gladio. Her agents and allies will continue to work her agenda to topple the orange one and send him gibbering to the madhouse. He will rue the day he crossed the mighty Omarosa, if he's not ruing already. A ruer he shall be, so much ruing, my stars.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Treason is action against the nation. Trump, despite his delusions, is not the same as the nation.
At least we can be certain Trump will never quote Louis XIV on the matter. Because he's never heard of him.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
At least we can be certain Trump will never quote Louis XIV on the matter. Because he's never heard of him.
"I know the guy! Lewis, smart guy, ex-Ivy League. Says GREAT things about me, Lewis ex-Ivy!
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:21 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If Mike Pence didn't write it, the author including the "lodestar" language was pretty clever. Dropping as many red herrings as possible would simultaneously protect the author's true identity and sow maximum chaos into the White House, which would probably qualify as resistance behavior.

Whoever wrote that op-ed must have known that it would be closely scrutinized. I don't think it's far fetched that some deliberate misdirection would be used.
Trump's and Huckabee Sanders' reactions seem to indicate that the source is genuine, which helps corroborate Woodward's and Wolff's books. And everything else we suspected and heard about.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It reads to me like it was written by Kissinger, who used the word "lodestar" at McCain's funeral.
Kissinger isn't a member of the administration.

Pence has used the word "lodestar" repeatedly throughout the years, and also spoke at McCain's funeral.

I think the two most likely explanations for the use of the word are: 1) the op-ed was written by Pence, 2) it was used deliberately as a red herring to protect the identity of the author.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Whomever wrote it should stop being such a pussy and work to invoke the 25th.
That'd be pretty pointless. They need 2/3 support from Congress anyway. Both that and impeachment would lead nowhere anyway. Resigning would just leave Trump more able to do whatever he wants. Staying and undermining him might be the best choice, though I'm not quite sure why they felt the need to publish this Op-Ed.
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Trump's and Huckabee Sanders' reactions seem to indicate that the source is genuine, which helps corroborate Woodward's and Wolff's books. And everything else we suspected and heard about.
To be honest, there is very little in the letter that would surprise anyone who followed the news and Trump's press conferences.

Quote:
Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.
We know all this!

Quote:
Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.
We know this too! Trump says nice things about Putin, but his administration continues treating Russia largely as it has done before.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th September 2018, 07:56 AM   #24
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Anyone checked in to see what FoxNews has to say about it? Or are they covering Uranium 1 this week?
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:02 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Staying and undermining him might be the best choice, though I'm not quite sure why they felt the need to publish this Op-Ed.
Because publishing the op Ed is itself an act to undermine. They've just sent the White House into another paroxysm of paranoia, witch hunting, and backstabbing. The serpents are biting each other in a frenzy. Everyone knows the fastest path to rattle Trump's cage good and hard is to announce to the press that he's not in control of things. He's probably tripled his Diet Coke consumption to rehydrate from all the spittle he's lost from screaming in the last two days. Another couple of leaks and he'll need an IV drip!
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Anyone checked in to see what FoxNews has to say about it? Or are they covering Uranium 1 this week?
Probably developing a theory that Hillary and Barack actually wrote it.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:06 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
To be honest, there is very little in the letter that would surprise anyone who followed the news and Trump's press conferences.



We know all this!



We know this too! Trump says nice things about Putin, but his administration continues treating Russia largely as it has done before.
Which all leads me to wonder if the letter/op-ed piece could have been written by someone well outside the White House, with the simple intent of turning the knob up to eleven in an already paranoid Oval Office.
I know, that's crazy talk, never mind, forget I said it.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That'd be pretty pointless. They need 2/3 support from Congress anyway. Both that and impeachment would lead nowhere anyway. Resigning would just leave Trump more able to do whatever he wants. Staying and undermining him might be the best choice, though I'm not quite sure why they felt the need to publish this Op-Ed.
Well, at least the editorial clarifies one thing: the "deep state" of entrenched bureaucrats is real, and is really working to undermine the Executive branch.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Kissinger isn't a member of the administration.

Pence has used the word "lodestar" repeatedly throughout the years, and also spoke at McCain's funeral.

I think the two most likely explanations for the use of the word are: 1) the op-ed was written by Pence, 2) it was used deliberately as a red herring to protect the identity of the author.
Nikki Haley is friends with Kissinger and is a member of the admin, tho.

The "Kissinger crowd" sees itself as sort of a "government in exile" at the moment. I think she was transmitting their ideas in the letter, and sees herself as one of them.

eta: Kissinger used the word "lodestar" just last week at McCain's funeral.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, at least the editorial clarifies one thing: the "deep state" of entrenched bureaucrats is real, and is really working to undermine the Executive branch.
How can you tell it was written by an "entrenched bureaucrat"?
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, at least the editorial clarifies one thing: the "deep state" of entrenched bureaucrats is real, and is really working to undermine the Executive branch.
Not really. Not unless you have evidence that the op-ed was written by an entrenched bureaucrat rather than a Trump appointee.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:14 AM   #32
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"The anonymous op-ed is a guy doing nothing and calling himself a hero. Trump, basically."

https://twitter.com/Ugarles/status/1037701677090930690

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Old 6th September 2018, 08:15 AM   #33
Cavemonster
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, at least the editorial clarifies one thing: the "deep state" of entrenched bureaucrats is real, and is really working to undermine the Executive branch.
I disagree on the framing, but we could go back and forth on that forever.

But there is no particular reason to believe this is an "entrenched bureaucrat". It could as easily be someone appointed by Trump, and my guess is that it is.

And on that point, the "executive branch" consists of more than just the President. Stopping the President from doing stupid things is not undermining the executive branch.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:20 AM   #34
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which all leads me to wonder if the letter/op-ed piece could have been written by someone well outside the White House, with the simple intent of turning the knob up to eleven in an already paranoid Oval Office.
I know, that's crazy talk, never mind, forget I said it.
There's really no way the editorial board of the NYT would give op-ed space to an opinion piece that was truly anonymous even to them. They know who wrote it, and I sincerely doubt they'd go along with such a thing.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:23 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
At least we can be certain Trump will never quote Louis XIV on the matter. Because he's never heard of him.
"It's good to be the king!"

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which all leads me to wonder if the letter/op-ed piece could have been written by someone well outside the White House, with the simple intent of turning the knob up to eleven in an already paranoid Oval Office.
I know, that's crazy talk, never mind, forget I said it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/p...imes&smtyp=cur

It was at least passed on by someone who can qualify as a member of the administration.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:28 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which all leads me to wonder if the letter/op-ed piece could have been written by someone well outside the White House, with the simple intent of turning the knob up to eleven in an already paranoid Oval Office.
I know, that's crazy talk, never mind, forget I said it.
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
There's really no way the editorial board of the NYT would give op-ed space to an opinion piece that was truly anonymous even to them. They know who wrote it, and I sincerely doubt they'd go along with such a thing.
There's also the dog that didn't bark evidence here. Trump and Sanders have been calling the writer of the Op-Ed GUTLESS and a coward rather than claiming it is just made up.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:28 AM   #38
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The NYT knew this op-ed would be a big deal, and they know who the author is. I don't think the NYT would allow an outsider claim to be an insider of the administration.

ETA: Note to self - remember to refresh page to avoid being ninja'ed by RecoveringYuppy.
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:31 AM   #39
RecoveringYuppy
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This links comes from kellyb's link and might be a more friendly format to read for some people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/b...anonymous.html
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:31 AM   #40
kellyb
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
There's really no way the editorial board of the NYT would give op-ed space to an opinion piece that was truly anonymous even to them. They know who wrote it, and I sincerely doubt they'd go along with such a thing.
Yeah, in the NYT podcast I linked to above, the editor says it was given to him by an intermediary who he trusts, and then he personally confirmed authorship with the purported author.
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