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Old 6th September 2018, 08:19 PM   #281
Sherkeu
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From CNN today: Here's one big clue to the identity of the anonymous op-ed writer

The article above tells us that the op-ed author must be someone super duper uber important or the NYT would never ever ever consider publishing it. i suppose it can be read as a serious opinion. I read it as dripping with sarcasm- meaning the CNN writer knows that 'anon' is NOT tippy-top level and is taking a dig at the shoddy integrity of the NYT (pre-reveal).
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Old 6th September 2018, 08:53 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
From CNN today: Here's one big clue to the identity of the anonymous op-ed writer

The article above tells us that the op-ed author must be someone super duper uber important or the NYT would never ever ever consider publishing it. i suppose it can be read as a serious opinion. I read it as dripping with sarcasm- meaning the CNN writer knows that 'anon' is NOT tippy-top level and is taking a dig at the shoddy integrity of the NYT (pre-reveal).
It's not sarcastic. I listened to the podcast interviewing the NYT editor, and I got the same impression. It's someone high up.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:13 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's not sarcastic. I listened to the podcast interviewing the NYT editor, and I got the same impression. It's someone high up.
Well I guess it's a real opinion then. The description of the rigorous decision process to publish seemed so over the top to say about another news org that it seemed disingenuous.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:16 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Well I guess it's a real opinion then. The description of the rigorous decision process to publish seemed so over the top to say about another news org that it seemed disingenuous.
I don't see anything sarcastic in there. The writer seems quite confident NYT got a good one.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:32 PM   #285
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Shall we start the betting?

I'm going out on a short limb and saying it's Huckers. She is right up close to the action, is on board with the administration's goals, works close enough to the Marmalade Shartcannon to swipe his stationery, and has expressed some sort of desire to be out of the place by December, i.e. after the mid-terms which are expected to be a disaster.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:58 PM   #286
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I'm guessing Pence at this moment: he has the most to gain and the least to lose. He was also one of the few who where there from the beginning and who would have been contacted about any 25th Amendment scenario.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had a Confession Booth in his office for Trump staffers to cry their hearts out.
Should Trump make it to 2020, a primary challenger wouldn't pick Pence again, and Pence has no way to distinguish himself whilst Trump sits in the Big Chair.
His best chance is to take over from from after a disastrous Midterm and thus have the Incumbent advantage in 2020.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:11 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm guessing Pence at this moment: he has the most to gain and the least to lose. He was also one of the few who where there from the beginning and who would have been contacted about any 25th Amendment scenario.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had a Confession Booth in his office for Trump staffers to cry their hearts out.
Should Trump make it to 2020, a primary challenger wouldn't pick Pence again, and Pence has no way to distinguish himself whilst Trump sits in the Big Chair.
His best chance is to take over from from after a disastrous Midterm and thus have the Incumbent advantage in 2020.

Except that Pence cannot be fired. He can say all of this with his name attached if he felt strongly. The NYT says this is a person "whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure."


I don't see him thinking that having the NYT keep this big secret for him is a good idea- for anything. Plus, it already makes him a liar since he denied it.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:14 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Well I guess it's a real opinion then. The description of the rigorous decision process to publish seemed so over the top to say about another news org that it seemed disingenuous.

Why over the top? How do you think major media organizations work? Why would you imagine the NYT doesn't really know who this person is, or doesn't accurately describe him/her as a "senior official?"

Here's what the Times' news side says about the search for the author.
Quote:
One by one, they came forward, almost as if in a virtual lineup. Not me, said the vice president. Nor me, said the secretary of state. Or me, said the attorney general.

In a spectacle that may be without precedent even for an administration that has seen many of those already, almost the entire cabinet and leadership team working for President Trump pleaded not guilty on Thursday to writing an extraordinary anonymous essay about plotting against him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/u...ous-op-ed.html
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:19 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Except that Pence cannot be fired. He can say all of this with his name attached if he felt strongly. The NYT says this is a person "whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure."


I don't see him thinking that having the NYT keep this big secret for him is a good idea- for anything. Plus, it already makes him a liar since he denied it.
Trump might not be able to fire him, but Congress could. Pence could also be made to resign, since he wouldn't be able to stand against a hostile GOP and Trump.
No, at this point, Pence has a lot to lose from being revealed as "Lodestar" and a lot to gain from the revelation once Trump is getting the boot: if he can come out of this as "The Adult in the Room", he has a good chance of being the GOP candidate in 2020.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:32 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump might not be able to fire him, but Congress could. Pence could also be made to resign, since he wouldn't be able to stand against a hostile GOP and Trump.
No, at this point, Pence has a lot to lose from being revealed as "Lodestar" and a lot to gain from the revelation once Trump is getting the boot: if he can come out of this as "The Adult in the Room", he has a good chance of being the GOP candidate in 2020.
So much to lose that he wouldn't risk authoring it. I still think it's going to turn out to be a relative unknown.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:38 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
So much to lose that he wouldn't risk authoring it. I still think it's going to turn out to be a relative unknown.

Me too.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:38 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why over the top? How do you think major media organizations work? Why would you imagine the NYT doesn't really know who this person is, or doesn't accurately describe him/her as a "senior official?"

Here's what the Times' news side says about the search for the author.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/u...ous-op-ed.html
It sounds OTT to me because I think there's a very very good chance (almost certain in my mind) that the writer isn't a top official. How is this CNN writer so sure it's someone in the inner circle? Why the lack of skepticism? Because it's the NYT?

Just look at the lack of any personal first-hand anecdotes of working with the president. The only mention is a quote from someone who told him about a meeting:
" “There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier."

This isn't someone who meets with the president regularly - if ever. More likely someone affected by his actions who works with people who sometimes do meet with him.

But we'll see. I'm confident it will come out soon.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:41 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Shall we start the betting?

I'm going out on a short limb and saying it's Huckers. She is right up close to the action, is on board with the administration's goals, works close enough to the Marmalade Shartcannon to swipe his stationery, and has expressed some sort of desire to be out of the place by December, i.e. after the mid-terms which are expected to be a disaster.
No one in the U.S. should be taking that for granted.

And that's not a short limb ... Sanders? I just can't see it.

For those old enough/interested enough to know about Watergate, how many knew who Mark Felt was when he was revealed as "Deep Throat"?
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:41 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
It sounds OTT to me because I think there's a very very good chance (almost certain in my mind) that the writer isn't a top official. How is this CNN writer so sure it's someone in the inner circle? Why the lack of skepticism? Because it's the NYT?

Just look at the lack of any personal first-hand anecdotes of working with the president. The only mention is a quote from someone who told him about a meeting:
" “There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier."

This isn't someone who meets with the president regularly - if ever. More likely someone affected by his actions who works with people who sometimes do meet with him.

But we'll see. I'm confident it will come out soon.
It doesn't even say in the white house.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:43 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
No one in the U.S. should be taking that for granted.

And that's not a short limb ... Sanders? I just can't see it.

For those old enough/interested enough to know about Watergate, how many knew who Mark Felt was when he was revealed as "Deep Throat"?
The problem with deep throat is Mark felt didn't really do much. He made the story more public, but a lot of people were investigating crimes at the time.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:51 PM   #296
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One more and then I promise I'll quit, but lodestar = "deals rot."
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:57 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
One more and then I promise I'll quit, but lodestar = "deals rot."
No, it's the president's butt that's finally had enough. Dolt Arse. Okay, I'm out of here.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:58 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The problem with deep throat is Mark felt didn't really do much. He made the story more public, but a lot of people were investigating crimes at the time.
Wasn't he critical to the Washington Post's internal decision to require extensive corroboration when other unnamed sources were used?

My point was that people were guessing he was someone very prominent, and it turns out he wasn't (that I knew of, anyway).

To me the op-ed piece sounds like it was written by a committee. That doesn't mean it was, but that's how it strikes me.
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Old 6th September 2018, 11:00 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Hevneren View Post
No, it's the president's butt that's finally had enough. Dolt Arse. Okay, I'm out of here.
Brilliant. And I call myself a Scrabble player!
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Old 6th September 2018, 11:01 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Who at the White House has claimed to be the author?
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And maybe he is. But we don't know that, an implication isn't a claim, and the NYT doesn't say he is either.
So many posts from you both all making you both appear to be desperate to believe that no Trump insider would have written the op-ed.

Another anonymous Trump insider said,

"The problem for the president is it could be so many people.. You can't rule it down to one person. Everyone is trying, but it's impossible."

Bob Corker (R), Tennessee, said they're more worried about who *wouldn't* have written the letter.

See for yourself:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/polit...ad-sot-vxp.cnn

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Old 6th September 2018, 11:19 PM   #301
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One more bit of conspiracy theory-level speculation: The major talking points could have been hammered out by several key players, who then delegated the actual typing to a "senior official," which could describe lots of people we've never heard of. So the top folks didn't literally write it. I know it sounds farfetched, but I have been involved in similar processes.
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Old 6th September 2018, 11:27 PM   #302
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Witchhunt!
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Old 6th September 2018, 11:47 PM   #303
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I Am Part of the Resistance Inside The New York Times Editorial Board

I work for The New York Times but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of newspapers agenda and their worst inclinations.

The NYT is facing a test of their credibility unlike any faced by a modern American newspaper.

The dilemma — which the paper does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials on the editorial board are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of the newspapers propaganda agenda.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We don't want fake news to succeed and think that many of the papers stories have already made Americans dumber and less informed.

We believe our first duty is to this country, and the newspaper continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

All Americans should break free of the fake news trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

-- The writer, who wrote the above on the condition of anonymity, is a senior official on The New York Times editorial board.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:28 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
I Am Part of the Resistance Inside The New York Times Editorial Board

I work for The New York Times but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of newspapers agenda and their worst inclinations.

The NYT is facing a test of their credibility unlike any faced by a modern American newspaper.

The dilemma — which the paper does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials on the editorial board are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of the newspapers propaganda agenda.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We don't want fake news to succeed and think that many of the papers stories have already made Americans dumber and less informed.

We believe our first duty is to this country, and the newspaper continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

All Americans should break free of the fake news trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

-- The writer, who wrote the above on the condition of anonymity, is a senior official on The New York Times editorial board.
Awesome Poe!

See, your problem is there is no OTHER evidence to support your claims. So on its own, that was barely funny. Unlike Op-Ed, which is being confirmed by Donny's own reaction. If he had only kept his trap shut and ignored it, it would have fallen with a thud. But then there is Woodward's opus to respond to. Tougher prospect - he has footnotes! 😉
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:28 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
I Am Part of the Resistance Inside The New York Times Editorial Board

I work for The New York Times but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of newspapers agenda and their worst inclinations.

The NYT is facing a test of their credibility unlike any faced by a modern American newspaper.

The dilemma — which the paper does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials on the editorial board are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of the newspapers propaganda agenda.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We don't want fake news to succeed and think that many of the papers stories have already made Americans dumber and less informed.

We believe our first duty is to this country, and the newspaper continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

All Americans should break free of the fake news trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

-- The writer, who wrote the above on the condition of anonymity, is a senior official on The New York Times editorial board.
Yeah, it's not so far-fetched. How many times has the right-wing media played up the contingent of conservative Facebook employees? ****, Snowden, Manning, and Winner have leaked documents.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:42 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Wasn't he critical to the Washington Post's internal decision to require extensive corroboration when other unnamed sources were used?

My point was that people were guessing he was someone very prominent, and it turns out he wasn't (that I knew of, anyway).

To me the op-ed piece sounds like it was written by a committee. That doesn't mean it was, but that's how it strikes me.
Murder on the Orient Express. They all did it.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:49 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Murder on the Orient Express. They all did it.
Right.
Because the "suicide pact" between Mattis, Mnuchin and Tillerson worked so well.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:24 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
How about "rat doles"?
Arse'ol DT (Donald Trump)
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:33 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Awesome Poe!

See, your problem is there is no OTHER evidence to support your claims. So on its own, that was barely funny. Unlike Op-Ed, which is being confirmed by Donny's own reaction. If he had only kept his trap shut and ignored it, it would have fallen with a thud. But then there is Woodward's opus to respond to. Tougher prospect - he has footnotes! 😉

....and he has taped conversations, a hundred hours of them, with almost everyone in The Dolt's orbit.
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:37 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They publish anonymous claims without corroboration, and without allowing us to evaluate their sources for ourselves.
So no evidence that casts doubt on their "editorial integrity" or "reliability of [...] due diligence".

Then the answer to your question ("Are the editors today better people than the editors of 30 years ago?") appears to be "yes, as far as the evidence indicates". You should probably have led with that, if you genuinely thought the actions of the paper 80-30 years ago was relevant. As it is, what you've now done is provided evidence that their editorial policy has improved since then. I don't think that was your intention, but that's what happens when you try to fit the facts to your opinion, rather than allowing your opinion to be formed from the facts.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:37 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
No one in the U.S. should be taking that for granted.

And that's not a short limb ... Sanders? I just can't see it.

For those old enough/interested enough to know about Watergate, how many knew who Mark Felt was when he was revealed as "Deep Throat"?

More's the point, how long did it take before the public knew? 30 years?
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:41 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
BTW, NYT is fake news
Lügenpresse!
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:47 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Now whether it's this guy alone or that there are others depends on the cred of the op ed author.
And Axios, who claim that two sources in the administration have said to them that there are "dozens and dozens" of people who wish they'd written it.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:52 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They publish anonymous claims without corroboration, and without allowing us to evaluate their sources for ourselves.
Yep! That's exactly what Woodward and Bernstein did in 1972... and in so doing, they brought down crooked Nixon's Presidency.

The reason they went to press? THEY TRUSTED THEIR SOURCE! They did their due diligence on what Mark Felt was telling them, second sourced enough information to satisfy themselves that Deep Throat was the genuine article, and then went to press - the rest is history. You should watch "All the President's Men", or read the book (which covers the story beyond Nixon's second inauguration in 1973.

There is no reason whatsoever to think that the NYT has not done its due diligence on their source, particularly since much of what the Op-Ed contained was very similar to what Woodward is saying in his new book.

Woodward's is known for cultivating impeccable sources.
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:54 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
NYT is fake news...
Only for mindless Trump sycophants.
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:03 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But my experience is there is almost always something to tip you off.
How can you enumerate the people that didn't tip you off?
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:05 AM   #317
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So, someone who agrees with every single policy decision the Trump White House has come up with, but doesn't like the president personally (because he's an unstable idiot) says "Don't worry, we're doing the responsible thing by undermining the president so we can keep implementing the GOP agenda. Because if we try to get rid of him it'll hurt our party, and we'd like to continue to profit from our position of power.", and liberals cheer because it's anti-Trump?
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:14 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
[...]one example -- they had an article about a year ago that waited until paragraph 18, I believe, before stating they were unable to confirm anything in the above 17 paragraphs[...]
Since nobody else has asked - cite?
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:18 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
So, someone who agrees with every single policy decision the Trump White House has come up with, but doesn't like the president personally (because he's an unstable idiot) says "Don't worry, we're doing the responsible thing by undermining the president so we can keep implementing the GOP agenda. Because if we try to get rid of him it'll hurt our party, and we'd like to continue to profit from our position of power.", and liberals cheer because it's anti-Trump?
I think it's possible to dislike the op-ed author and the things s/he's admitting to doing in the op-ed, and to like the fact that it sets the cat amongst the pigeons while also offering more evidence as to Trump's unfitness for office and thereby potentially hastening his removal from that office. It's possible to see things in terms other than black and white.
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:22 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
So, someone who agrees with every single policy decision the Trump White House has come up with, but doesn't like the president personally (because he's an unstable idiot) says "Don't worry, we're doing the responsible thing by undermining the president so we can keep implementing the GOP agenda. Because if we try to get rid of him it'll hurt our party, and we'd like to continue to profit from our position of power.", and liberals cheer because it's anti-Trump?
Not all of us are cheering. I think this is very dangerous. The fate of the US is now being determined by whatever document is or isn't stolen from the President's desk.

What the article does show is that even though people in the White House recognize that Trump is unfit, they are unwilling to do the right thing for the country.
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