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Old 7th September 2018, 11:19 AM   #81
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here's an idea...

She can't get the key to work. He hears this and yells something from deeper in the apartment. She hears his voice but still doesn't realize that it's not her place. She draws her gun and is prepared to fire thinking it's an armed burglar. She yells, "Open up!". He comes to the door with cellphone-in-hand and looks through the peephole. He sees a uniformed cop and opens the door. She sees the cellphone and thinks it's a gun and instantly shoots him. Then she looks past him (crumpled on the floor) and sees that it's not her apartment.
I wouldn't open the door for a cop, with anything in my hands, though. Especially if that cop already has her gun out.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:20 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She may have thought that it's not worth the risk of losing her own life on the idea that an armed burglar will never ever yell anything.

Somebody has entered my apartment and locked me out. They are potentially a very dangerous thing whether they yell something or not.
But how would they lock you out when you've got the key? Would you think a burglar changed the lock? It's not like pushing on the door and finding it barricaded. She apparently went from "my key doesn't work" to "deadly threat!" in microseconds. Maybe for most of us there would have been some intermediate steps.

And even if she heard somebody in the place, in a big complex it could just as easily have been the engineer doing an emergency repair. Toilets overflow at all hours. There is no justification for this killing.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:23 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Because the burglar had turned the TV on?
She may be able to see inside enough to tell.

He may have said, "Who is that?"

Maybe he flushed the toilet?

He may indeed have turned the TV on, or changed the channel as he sat at home watching TV.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:26 AM   #84
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After hearing her try to get in without announcing that she's a cop, then hearing her demand that I open up, I'd have yelled to her that I was calling 911 and I was waiting for some sane officers to arrive.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:30 AM   #85
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Maybe he recorded some of the exchange on his cell phone before he was killed.

I wonder if he tried to tell her she had the wrong apartment?
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:32 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I wouldn't open the door for a cop, with anything in my hands, though. Especially if that cop already has her gun out.
He may not have seen the gun through the peephole. Or, she drew her gun at the moment he was opening the door and he couldn't see that happen.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:32 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
After hearing her try to get in without announcing that she's a cop, then hearing her demand that I open up, I'd have yelled to her that I was calling 911 and I was waiting for some sane officers to arrive.
What if they called her? Hilarity ensues.

Hello, 911?
Yeah, Someone's trying to break into my apartment!

Cop:
Yeah, he's in there, alright. He just turned on my microwave ...
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:37 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He may not have seen the gun through the peephole. Or, she drew her gun at the moment he was opening the door and he couldn't see that happen.
She would have her gun drawn once she thinks she has an active burglary going on, imo.

The news reports read as if the man was shot inside the apartment, not right at the door.

Maybe he went and hid from the intruder?
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:38 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She may have thought that it's not worth the risk of losing her own life on the idea that an armed burglar will never ever yell anything.
There's the "She felt threatened" excuse. Knew it wouldn't be long.

Legally speaking, hell morally and logically speaking as well, she was the armed burglar.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:38 AM   #90
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https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/09/07/...ong-apartment/

Manslaughter warrant issued...

Quote:
The source Jean opened the door and when he did the officer shot him twice in chest. Jean was rushed to Baylor University Medical Center where he was pronounced dead.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:39 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
But how would they lock you out when you've got the key?
A deadbolt. She may have thought that the only reason her key isn't getting her in is because a deadbolt has been engaged from the inside. I don't know how these locks work but maybe an incorrect key can be fully inserted and turned but it won't open the mechanism.


Quote:
And even if she heard somebody in the place, in a big complex it could just as easily have been the engineer doing an emergency repair. Toilets overflow at all hours. There is no justification for this killing.
Right, but an engineer is unlikely to engage a deadbolt locking out the tenant while they are fixing a toilet.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:40 AM   #92
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So she demanded that he open the door, he saw that she was a cop and opened the door, and she immediately shot him twice.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
According to the video in link, the cop was involved in another shooting last year, but no details.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:46 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A deadbolt. She may have thought that the only reason her key isn't getting her in is because a deadbolt has been engaged from the inside.
There are several types off deadbolts that operate like this ... some can easily be accidentally set to "Key Lockout" as well (by someone inside the building locking the door)
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:48 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There's the "She felt threatened" excuse. Knew it wouldn't be long.
Joe, please don't ruin the thread. It's quite reasonable for her to feel threatened if she thinks that there is a burglar in her apartment. That's not offered here as an excuse but rather as an explanation.

It's terrible that this guy was killed and it should not have happened.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:50 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A deadbolt. She may have thought that the only reason her key isn't getting her in is because a deadbolt has been engaged from the inside. I don't know how these locks work but maybe an incorrect key can be fully inserted and turned but it won't open the mechanism.



Right, but an engineer is unlikely to engage a deadbolt locking out the tenant while they are fixing a toilet.
The engineer would have to ask permission to enter anyone's apartment. That's a fairly strict rule.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:51 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A deadbolt. She may have thought that the only reason her key isn't getting her in is because a deadbolt has been engaged from the inside. I don't know how these locks work but maybe an incorrect key can be fully inserted and turned but it won't open the mechanism.

Right, but an engineer is unlikely to engage a deadbolt locking out the tenant while they are fixing a toilet.
A deadbolt is a mechanism that physically bolts the door to the frame, as opposed to a springloaded latch lock that can be popped with a credit card. You still use a key to operate a deadbolt.

And even if the key didn't work, most people would think "There's something wrong with my lock, gotta call somebody," not "There's a burglar waiting to kill me!"
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:52 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's quite reasonable for her to feel threatened if she thinks that there is a burglar in her apartment.
It... wasn't... her... apartment. That's not some tiny secondary detail.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:54 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Joe, please don't ruin the thread. It's quite reasonable for her to feel threatened if she thinks that there is a burglar in her apartment. That's not offered here as an excuse but rather as an explanation.

It's terrible that this guy was killed and it should not have happened.
Sorry, as per LTC8K6 post above

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
So she demanded that he open the door, he saw that she was a cop and opened the door, and she immediately shot him twice.
If that is indeed what happened she deserves jail time.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:56 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Sorry, as per LTC8K6 post above



If that is indeed what happened she deserves jail time.
So now we want to ruin two promising lives instead of just one?

/s

Sorry, that will be part of her defense at trial and I hate that line of reasoning.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:57 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
The engineer would have to ask permission to enter anyone's apartment. That's a fairly strict rule.
I am very familiar with apartment living. The management is entitled to enter the unit with reasonable -- usually considered 24 hours -- notice except during emergencies. The tenant doesn't get to say "You can never come into my place," nor can the tenant require notice when there's a broken pipe, gas leak etc. It's at least possible that if someone was in "her" unit, they had cause. Of course, "the rules" are based on the notion that the management will comply with them. If they don't, it's a civil matter, and there's not really much you can do about it except complain to the housing authorities.

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Old 7th September 2018, 11:58 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It... wasn't... her... apartment. That's not some tiny secondary detail.
OMG, Joe! It's obvious that I'm talking about her state of mind. She thought it was her own apartment.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:14 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by NBC 5 Dallas
Dallas Chief of Police U. Renee Hall said given the direction of the investigation, the Dallas Police Department has ceased normal protocol for investigating officer-involved shootings and, in the interest of transparency, has invited the Texas Rangers to join the investigation...

...Another resident, Rachel Colon, said that a key fob is needed for every floor.

Resident Raquel, who declined to give her last name, said she saw blood at the apartments. Doors have either alarm codes, key fobs or regular keys to get inside, Raquel said.

A third resident, named Bridget, said residents' keys only work for their own doors. She also confirmed that residents have to manually lock their doors when they leave...

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Da...492675981.html
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:17 PM   #104
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It sounds like she had to be on the right floor, and this guy must have been a neighbor of hers.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:18 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post

Did you bury the lede? Your link says:
Quote:
A manslaughter warrant is expected to be issued for a Dallas police officer who police say shot and killed a man after entering an apartment unit she believed was her own Thursday night.
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Da...492675981.html
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:22 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Did you bury the lede? Your link says:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Da...492675981.html
Post #90.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:25 PM   #107
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The above link also says:
Quote:
After entering the unit, she was confronted by a 26-year-old man, identified by the medical examiner's office as Botham Shem Jean. At some point, the officer fired her weapon, hitting him, police said.
How do we know her key didn't work? Maybe he didn't lock his door, she just walked in, found a stranger and opened fire?
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:26 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Did you bury the lede?
I don't understand this question.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:33 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
How do we know her key didn't work? Maybe he didn't lock his door, she just walked in, found a stranger and opened fire?
If she did yell "Open up!" that's not something you say when your key does open the door or if the door is unlocked and simply opens for you.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:38 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The above link also says:


How do we know her key didn't work? Maybe he didn't lock his door, she just walked in, found a stranger and opened fire?
Other news articles have witnesses saying her key was stuck in the door.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:42 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Other news articles have witnesses saying her key was stuck in the door.
"Stuck" in the door, as in jammed? Or just "left" in the door after she opened it? If I turn my key and open the door, I can leave my keys hanging there. If the door hadn't been locked, she could still open it and leave her keys in the lock.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:43 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Other news articles have witnesses saying her key was stuck in the door.
Which it would be if he had left his door unlocked and she stuck her key in to unlock it and then turned the handle and it opened. She would likely leave her keys there as she left he door locked and now assumes someone has broken into her apartment. Or at least, I don't think her keys being there are inconsistent with the story.

Still, such a silly ******* way to die. I really can't comprehend how to deal with a family member dying like this.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:43 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Dallas Morning News
Police didn't indicate that anyone else had witnessed the shooting, but two women who live on the second floor near where the shooting happened said they heard a lot of noise late Thursday.

"It was, like, police talk: 'Open up! Open up!'" 20-year-old Caitlin Simpson said.
This woman may actually be talking about hearing the other officers' voices who arrived after the shooting. Other articles do have quotes from nearby residents saying they could hear responding officers yelling. Nobody yet has said they heard any gunshots.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...e-headquarters
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:47 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't understand this question.

Some would have thought that the impending manslaughter warrant was more significant than the details of who is conducting the investigation.
Quote:
A lede is the most newsworthy part of a news story. Journalists are taught to keep it front and center: a story should lead with the lede. A writer “buries the lede” when the newsworthy part of a story fails to appear at the beginning, where it’s expected. Say, for example, that two people die in a house fire. The lede is buried if the reporting mentions the location, time, or cause of the fire before the deaths.
https://style.mla.org/dont-bury-the-lede/
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:51 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some would have thought that the impending manslaughter warrant was more significant than the details of who is conducting the investigation.
I already saw the post about the manslaughter charge. There was no need for me to cite it again and so I didn't. I also didn't cite other things that were already posted. I try not to present redundancy in a thread.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:57 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
"Stuck" in the door, as in jammed? Or just "left" in the door after she opened it? If I turn my key and open the door, I can leave my keys hanging there. If the door hadn't been locked, she could still open it and leave her keys in the lock.


Originally Posted by St. Lucia Times
According to the relative, the police officer’s key was found in the lock of the door of the apartment belonging to the deceased, after she tried unsuccessfully to open it.
Link is in post #24.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:11 PM   #117
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This woman may actually be talking about hearing the other officers' voices who arrived after the shooting. Other articles do have quotes from nearby residents saying they could hear responding officers yelling. Nobody yet has said they heard any gunshots.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...e-headquarters
It seems unlikely that other officers would need anything opened up, though.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:12 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
"Stuck" in the door, as in jammed? Or just "left" in the door after she opened it? If I turn my key and open the door, I can leave my keys hanging there. If the door hadn't been locked, she could still open it and leave her keys in the lock.
She doesn't have the right key. She can't open it with any key on her person.

It seems much more likely that she tried her key and it did not work, and probably got stuck, or it wouldn't go all the way in.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:16 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
She doesn't have the right key. She can't open it with any key on her person.

It seems much more likely that she tried her key and it did not work, and probably got stuck, or it wouldn't go all the way in.
I meant if the door was unlocked, she might have inserted her key, found it didn't work, and turned the knob anyway. If the door was unlocked, it would have opened, even with the non-functional key in the lock.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:17 PM   #120
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I'm surprised they didn't arrest her at the scene .

Secure blood work, get a statement from her.

This seems very shady.
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