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3rd November 2018, 05:25 AM | #81 |
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3rd November 2018, 05:28 AM | #82 |
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3rd November 2018, 05:30 AM | #83 |
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3rd November 2018, 05:32 AM | #84 |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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3rd November 2018, 08:09 AM | #85 |
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Well, to be charitable, there's the butterfly effect: A storm has to start somehow, so a vortice somewhere? Well, let's leave it at that.
Now explain, please: 1) How does a local vortice evolve into a storm? Whee does the energy come from? 2) Practical observation shows that a rising column of warm, moist air can form a convection cell that evolves into a thunderstorm. This is something you can watch many times every summer in large parts of the world. How does this fit with your thesis? 3) If, as you claim, most storms start as vortices in the very upper atmosphere, why can't we observe them evolving downward from up there? Instead they always appear to spread upwards. And as a corollary, why do storms NEVER exist only in the higher parts of the atmosphere, but always from the surface up? Hans |
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3rd November 2018, 09:43 AM | #86 | ||
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3rd November 2018, 03:09 PM | #87 |
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3rd November 2018, 03:29 PM | #88 |
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3rd November 2018, 03:39 PM | #89 |
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3rd November 2018, 04:13 PM | #90 |
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“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin |
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3rd November 2018, 07:57 PM | #91 |
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4th November 2018, 12:01 AM | #92 |
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4th November 2018, 03:39 AM | #93 |
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4th November 2018, 03:46 AM | #94 |
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Well, you might want to cut down in the snide remarks, at least till you know what you are talking about.
First of all, as Lurch has so nicely explained, moist air is less dense than dry air, simply because water vapor is less dense than air. However, the main difference comes because when air gets hot, it will of course expand, becoming less dense. Therefore, regardless of humidity, warm air will rise if surrounded by colder air. And here you have the first stage in the formation of everything from summer clouds to hurricanes. .... Would you like me to explain the rest of the process? Hans |
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4th November 2018, 05:41 AM | #95 |
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4th November 2018, 02:17 PM | #96 |
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4th November 2018, 04:40 PM | #97 |
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No. The reason being that this is well tested physics applied to Earth's atmosphere that works well in describing storms. This is a tropical cyclone. This is a tornado.
There are certainly puzzles. That does not make the models of storms into pseudoscience
Quote:
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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4th November 2018, 04:52 PM | #98 |
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Real world science is not restricted to eyesight, jimmcginn.
Moist air from a evaporating pot of water is in general invisible to eyesight. A bit of common sense says that this is happening. The pot of water is evaporating. By definition that is water going from a liquid phase to a gas phase. There is air above the pot. Air + water as a gas = moist air. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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4th November 2018, 05:00 PM | #99 |
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We get that unsupported assertions and accusations says nothing about weather and is not any kind of science, jimmcginn.
We understand that YouTube is full of crank videos and are skeptical about citations to it. The obvious exception are the mainstream science video channels. ETA: A 40 minute video with the title "Pauling's Omission: The Original Sin of the Natural Sciences" and no description does not inspire confidence that it contains valid science. Presumably that is Linus Pauling who was an eminent biochemist and Noble Prize winner. Biochemistry and his specialist field of quantum chemistry is not meteorology. The ADS Database has 359 abstracts for him, 3 for 'Linus Pauling surface', and none for 'Linus Pauling tension'. The video up to where things get really wrong.
There is no "taboo" about discussing models. Meteorologists want to discuss their models. There is the scientific literature where meteorologists discuss their models. There are web sits where meteorologists discuss their models. There are TV documentaries where meteorologists discuss their models. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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4th November 2018, 05:54 PM | #100 |
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Warm air and a low pressure system will usually do it. Unstable air mass combined with thunderstorm activity is the basic formula. We don't get many tornadoes where I live but we do get them, and it's never on a sunny day.
More to the point, the science of tornadoes is on-going, this is NOAA's latest: https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/projects/vortex2/ It you have something to contribute then go through regular channels. |
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5th November 2018, 11:39 AM | #101 |
"más divertido"
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Not just that Skippy, but pretty much all Skippy is less complex than Reality.
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5th November 2018, 11:54 AM | #102 |
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I wonder when Jim realised that we were unlikely to provide fertile ground for his makie-uppy bollocks. Presumably he's instead spreading this guff somewhere where he found the inhabitants to be further up the gullibility index.
Love the complexity graph, carlitos!! |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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5th November 2018, 12:16 PM | #103 |
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5th November 2018, 02:09 PM | #104 |
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The Weather Wizard is behind it all, with some help from Gorilla Grond and Captian Boomerang.
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5th November 2018, 02:46 PM | #105 |
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No, not a leap of faith, but a pretty good understand of thermodynamics, physics, and a tad bit of respect for water as the very cool substance that it is.
It sounds like instead of having respect for water and all those who have studied it for generations, you assume that it is magical and only you can understand it. If that is right, I look forward to you laying our some falsifiable claims. Because I really like water, even if I'm not much of a scientist. ETA: Thanks to Lurch for the refresher at the molecular level! |
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5th November 2018, 03:10 PM | #106 |
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Damned Weathermen. Used to be all they did was bombings, jailbreaks, and riots
now they won't tell us how the weather really works. |
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5th November 2018, 07:49 PM | #107 |
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Found this Jan 13, 2017 thread by a "James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes" on the crank Thunderbolts forum.
Thunderbolts are a bunch of rather deluded followers of Immanuel Velikovsky. Posting so-called science on their forum is an automatic failure. The thread looks like some cut/pastes of his web site or book . If so they are incoherent fantasies.
There is also a 1 post "International Skeptics Fail to Dispute "Paulings Omission" (" thread which is extremely wrong. We have disputed his fantasies. There is no "Paulings Omission". Pauling credited the first mention of hydrogen bonds to other authors. The best that can be said about his fact less rant is that he is honest enough to quote a post in full even if he cannot write an actual link back to here.. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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5th November 2018, 08:00 PM | #108 |
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Things get worse for the credibility of "James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes" with this ignorant page
Quote:
Climate change is an observed fact. Climate scientists do debate. He is unaware that scientific journals exist, can be read and that climate scientists have been debating the causes of the current global warming for decades (since the 1970's?) in those journals. It is the evidence that has formed the current ~97% consensus that we are the main cause of global warming. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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6th November 2018, 12:02 AM | #109 |
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Velikovsky?! Surely not............
I read World's in Collision when I was about 12. Even at that age and with only the school's Encyclopedia Brittanica as reference, I quickly worked out that he was making stuff up. This is the idiocracy in action, isn't it. Whoever predicted that this chew toy wouldn't last long seems to have got it about right. |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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6th November 2018, 12:06 AM | #110 |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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6th November 2018, 09:29 AM | #111 |
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I wasn't really interested in his claims about tornadoes. Just way too far-fetched and groundless to be interesting, even from a "what bad intuition led to this strange model?" standpoint. (When I posted my first reply, I decided not to snark instead, but I did compose the appropriately snarky post in my mind: basically, "your tornado model is incomplete because you've left out air elementals, phlogiston, and Thor.")
But I do wish he'd tried to answer the simple question about where the water goes when water or something wet dries at room temperature. That's where the departure from reality appears to begin. Does he deny that the phenomenon, familiar to everyone and amply covered in elementary school science classes, actually occurs? Or does he have some theory about how water droplets spontaneously form and detach from a water-air surface? (And if so, what prevents those droplets from spontaneously further subdividing, ultimately with the same results as evaporation?) Or does he think the water just vanishes from existence? A related question, does he understand that solids can dissolve in liquids, at temperatures far below the melting point of the solid? Is the notion of liquids dissolving in gases at temperatures far below the boiling point of the liquid that much harder to credit? We'll never know; all we seem to get in reply to such questions is tap dancing and insults. |
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6th November 2018, 10:20 AM | #112 |
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6th November 2018, 10:51 AM | #113 |
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6th November 2018, 01:21 PM | #114 |
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It is interesting to me that these kinds of thread can continue so long, launched by an absolutely absurd premise in the OP. At one level I would have thought that one rebuttal post would have been enough to just establish the truth for any readers and leave it at that. And let's face it, typically no number of rebuttals, references to facts, links to information sources, etc. will convince the "alternative science/science conspiracy" believers that they are wrong - look at the other threads in this Forum of this nature.
But I will acknowledge that I understand the need to want to fully rebut even absurdities, and the many rebuttals often provide interesting information for the readers, such as myself. So carry on, even though I would say that the premise in the OP has been well and truly slaughtered many times down thread of it. |
6th November 2018, 01:32 PM | #115 |
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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6th November 2018, 01:39 PM | #116 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th November 2018, 03:12 PM | #117 |
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6th November 2018, 03:30 PM | #118 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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6th November 2018, 05:55 PM | #119 |
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I didn't not think that my post overall deserved "tough." My post only indicated that I found the length of these threads surprising, but then I explained how I did have an understanding of the motivation and purpose of the posters.
If it helps people understand my view: if the participants are enjoying themselves then of course my "surprise" is meaningless and the participants should continue to do just what they are finding useful and fun. And of course even that statement may be unwelcome for that very reason: my opinion is of no real legitimacy or meaning for them. So, I will continue to read this thread from time to time but not offer any further comments. |
8th November 2018, 06:29 AM | #120 |
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How about you cut to the chase, drop the JAQ-ing off act and tell us what you claim is responsible. Are diving down some rabbit hole involving 'them' that meterologists are all in on? Pity no-one let me in on the act when I was teaching it.
Warm moist air rises. You can watch it happen when you fill a bath, or boil a kettle. We may not have a perfect model of the weather, but I'll wager it's a lot better than yours. |
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Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
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