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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 14th February 2019, 08:57 AM   #321
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post


https://twitter.com/BlackBelted/stat...65256620703749



Before folks think these are all white collar pros who take vissisitudes like this into account working client-to-consultant, this applies to janitors, cafeteria workers and maintenance all of whom worked during the shutdown for fear of losing their jobs. This is a big FU to them

I would like to see evidence that non-employee contractor janitors, cafeteria workers and maintenance workers showed up en masse to work, unpaid, during the shutdown. Color me skeptical of that claim.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:09 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's my distinct sense you are clue-challenged as to the meaning of the word evidence. The general public, educated by TV courtroom dramas, seems to think that circumstantial evidence is invalid. Especially Trump cultists. (Not to imply you're a Trump cultist. I don't think that at all.)
Oh no no. They think it's perfectly valid, but not when their guy stands accused.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:10 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The only way to counter strong circumstantial evidence is to offer a plausible alternative explanation. You seem to think that just assuming there is one is good enough.
I don't accept the premise that the circumstantial evidence is strong.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:13 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't accept the premise that the circumstantial evidence is strong.
Of course you don't. But then...
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:14 AM   #325
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The direct link to the article in question here

ETA: Uh, sorry, that was meant to be a quoted reply to Ladewig.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:42 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Others just feel so abandoned and forgotten that they don't give a ****. If rest of America gets screwed they had it coming
This actually is true for both "sides" - it's probably what a lot of Trump voters were thinking in 2016, and IMO that thinking may be common among younger people as well. We saddle them with more debt, refuse to address climate change, and have lost many jobs to automation and/or outsourcing. I'd like to see them more engaged, but absent a raging war that kills 10 percent of deployed personnel it seems like a tough sell.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:55 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The issue is that the total of circumstantial evidence does not minimize a non-collusion explanation.
In the same was that total of evidence that terrorists crashed planes into the world trade center on 9/11 does not minimize a non-terrorist explanation for the building's collapse.

In other words, if NOBODY (not you, not Trump, not Trump's racist fanboys) can come up with an explanation that explains the evidence and actions of various people involved, then its a pretty sure thing that collusion is the most likely explanation.

Otherwise, you have to admit... you're just like a 9/11 troother.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:58 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
In the same was that total of evidence that terrorists crashed planes into the world trade center on 9/11 does not minimize a non-terrorist explanation for the building's collapse.
Yes, it does, because the circumstantial evidence there is actually good. Crazy how that works, I know.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:19 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Quote:
In the same was that total of evidence that terrorists crashed planes into the world trade center on 9/11 does not minimize a non-terrorist explanation for the building's collapse.
Yes, it does, because the circumstantial evidence there is actually good. Crazy how that works, I know.
And I'm sure the 9/11 Troothers feel the same way about the evidence surrounding the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They do the exact same thing you do... claim "The evidence isn't strong/credible/etc.".

Then when you try to actually get them to come up with an explanation that actually matches the evidence, they squirm away. "Oh, I'm just asking questions." "I don't really know what happened."

You should be proud.... you're in the same crowd as such notable academics as Stephan Jones and Dylan Avery.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:33 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And I'm sure the 9/11 Troothers feel the same way about the evidence surrounding the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They do the exact same thing you do... claim "The evidence isn't strong/credible/etc.".

Then when you try to actually get them to come up with an explanation that actually matches the evidence, they squirm away. "Oh, I'm just asking questions." "I don't really know what happened."

You should be proud.... you're in the same crowd as such notable academics as Stephan Jones and Dylan Avery.
If only there was a way to distinguish the two.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:48 AM   #331
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Trump Tweets

One year ago today, a horrific act of violence took the lives of 14 students and 3 educators in Parkland, Florida. On this somber anniversary, we honor their memory and recommit to ensuring the safety of all Americans, especially our Nation’s children... https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...kland-tragedy/
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:01 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

One year ago today, a horrific act of violence took the lives of 14 students and 3 educators in Parkland, Florida. On this somber anniversary, we honor their memory and recommit to ensuring the safety of all Americans, especially our Nation’s children... https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...kland-tragedy/
No way he wrote that.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:06 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

One year ago today, a horrific act of violence took the lives of 14 students and 3 educators in Parkland, Florida. On this somber anniversary, we honor their memory and recommit to ensuring the safety of all Americans, especially our Nation’s children... https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...kland-tragedy/
So...gun control?
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:09 AM   #334
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I'm hoping his twitter account puts out one for Sandy Hook too, to drive conspiracy theorists up the wall.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:51 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And I'm sure the 9/11 Troothers feel the same way about the evidence surrounding the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They do the exact same thing you do... claim "The evidence isn't strong/credible/etc.".

Then when you try to actually get them to come up with an explanation that actually matches the evidence, they squirm away. "Oh, I'm just asking questions." "I don't really know what happened."

You should be proud.... you're in the same crowd as such notable academics as Stephan Jones and Dylan Avery.
I agree with everthing you say, but I have to remind you that when you engage in discussion with being who lives under a bridge, you give them exactly what they want.
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Old 14th February 2019, 12:50 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
No way he wrote that.
No "sad" on the end.
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Old 14th February 2019, 12:58 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
No way he wrote that.
Agreed. But whoever did write it just underscored that fact that they're full of platitudes but haven't done a damn thing to prevent it from happening again. Which it will.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:03 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agreed. But whoever did write it just underscored that fact that they're full of platitudes but haven't done a damn thing to prevent it from happening again. Which it will.
As an aside, The BBC World Service HARDtalk radio programme had an interview with

March for our Lives co-founder Cameron Kasky


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswjg9

Worth a listen
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:05 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
No way he wrote that.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:06 PM   #340
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McConnell says "Trump is prepared to sign the bill and will also declare a national emergency"
Weeeeeeeee, the dumbest timeline continues.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:18 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
COnsdtituional crisis here we come.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:20 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
COnsdtituional crisis here we come.
Can anyone explain to me with a straight face how a multi-year long construction project can possibly constitute an emergency?
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:21 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And he has only the very best lackeys.
Lookee! Lucky lackies!
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:25 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone explain to me with a straight face how a multi-year long construction project can possibly constitute an emergency?
Yes, the emergency is Trump's ego crisis, which apparently isn't responding to medication.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:29 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone explain to me with a straight face how a multi-year long construction project can possibly constitute an emergency?
It's simple.

Trump "It's a crisis because I say so."
Democrats "No it isn't."
Trump "Are you gonna stop me?"
Democrats "Well... no but I'm sure Pelosi is going to sarcastically clap at you again or something."
Trump "Well there you go."
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:36 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone explain to me with a straight face how a multi-year long construction project can possibly constitute an emergency?
The same way we never knew if we would be in Iraq the next year and so could not possibly include any of that in the budget.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:42 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
BBC story on this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47247726
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:44 PM   #348
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The bad thing about the Emergency Declration is that it sets such a horrid precedent..one that strikes at the very heart of the Balance of Power between the branches of Govenrment, which is at the heart of American Democracy.
In the end, the real power of the congress is the power of the purse.....the President cannot spend a dime without the Congress ok ing it, and he has to spend it for the purposed that congress appropriated it.
There is a gray area for genuine national emergencies..but this ain;t one.It;s a pure power grab by Trump.
The GOP has screamed..often quite rightly in my opinion..about Obama streaching the power of the Predisency too far. I wonder what they will say about this, which is a lot more outragoue then anything Obama..or any President in the recent past..has done.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:59 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone explain to me with a straight face how a multi-year long construction project can possibly constitute an emergency?
It isn't.


Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The bad thing about the Emergency Declration is that it sets such a horrid precedent..one that strikes at the very heart of the Balance of Power between the branches of Govenrment, which is at the heart of American Democracy.
In the end, the real power of the congress is the power of the purse.....the President cannot spend a dime without the Congress ok ing it, and he has to spend it for the purposed that congress appropriated it.
There is a gray area for genuine national emergencies..but this ain;t one.It;s a pure power grab by Trump.
The GOP has screamed..often quite rightly in my opinion..about Obama streaching the power of the Predisency too far. I wonder what they will say about this, which is a lot more outragoue then anything Obama..or any President in the recent past..has done.
I think your missing the point on this dudalb. The courts are not going to allow this. I even think Trump knows this. But by doing it this way, he gets to save face. He knows damn well he can't shut the government down again. But this way he won't hear the commentators over at Fox etc say how he's weak and how he let Pelosi beat him.

This is ALL about OPTICS. NOTHING MORE.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:01 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It isn't.




I think your missing the point on this dudalb. The courts are not going to allow this. I even think Trump knows this. But by doing it this way, he gets to save face. He knows damn well he can't shut the government down again. But this way he won't hear the commentators over at Fox etc say how he's weak and how he let Pelosi beat him.

This is ALL about OPTICS. NOTHING MORE.
Yes, it's the best way for him to lose. He doesn't have to admit that even the Republicans in Congress don't want this dumb wall enough to pay for it, and they get to blame the their favorite boogieman, the courts.

Trump nominating conservative judges is probably the right's best success story for this administration, so having a nice court-room drama before the election bodes well.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:03 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It isn't.




I think your missing the point on this dudalb. The courts are not going to allow this. I even think Trump knows this. But by doing it this way, he gets to save face. He knows damn well he can't shut the government down again. But this way he won't hear the commentators over at Fox etc say how he's weak and how he let Pelosi beat him.

This is ALL about OPTICS. NOTHING MORE.
Yes, I know this will be tied up in courts for ever, but still, that a POTUS would even try a power grab like this, that strieks at the heart of our constitutional system, is troubling.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:04 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes, I know this will be tied up in courts for ever, but still, that a POTUS would even try a power grab like this, that strieks at the heart of our constitutional system, is troubling.
It is kind of surprising it has taken this long for him to go there, after all inventing emergencies to grab power is what all his favorite leaders do.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:13 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes, I know this will be tied up in courts for ever, but still, that a POTUS would even try a power grab like this, that strieks at the heart of our constitutional system, is troubling.
It doesn't bother me because I know it's Dead On Arrival. And conservative judges in particular will say no to this. It isn't an emergency just because POTUS says it is.

It wouldn't shock me the Supreme Court was unanimous in saying no.

I'm usually wary in making such a declaration, but maybe it's because I'm rational.

You could say that was my first mistake.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:22 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I would like to see evidence that non-employee contractor janitors, cafeteria workers and maintenance workers showed up en masse to work, unpaid, during the shutdown. Color me skeptical of that claim.
So if they weren't directed to work without pay they don't deserve any relief for Trump's ******* act?
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:25 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, it does, because the circumstantial evidence there is actually good. Crazy how that works, I know.
Yep, crazy how you cherry pick what to believe then rationalize it regardless of evidence and facts.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:26 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So if they weren't directed to work without pay they don't deserve any relief for Trump's ******* act?

What I actually said is there in the quote box. Please don't make strawman arguments in reply to my posts; or at least don't quote me when you do, as others may be confused and think I actually said what you are intimating.

Last edited by carlitos; 14th February 2019 at 02:29 PM. Reason: for clarity
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:28 PM   #357
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Let the games begin....

So how many years will you guys be under a state of emergency? 6? 10? 15?

Hope the pentagon has their checkbook and fountain pen ready to go. Trump will be using every single kind of power he has as POTUS to dance around the courts on this one. And don't be surprised if he pulls some dirty tricks too, if need be.

Rest assured, he'll get his money. Come hell or high water, he'll get his way with this one... even if it costs him republican support.

He doesn't care because he sees this wall as his 'swan song'.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:30 PM   #358
JoeMorgue
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
So how many years will you guys be under a state of emergency? 6? 10? 15?
Ah.... we're already under 31 going back as far as President Carter. We're still under George W. Bush's 9/11 National Emergency Deceleration.

The only difference is what Trumps wants to declare the emergency over. Hell he's already declared 3 and it barely made the news because they were routine.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:32 PM   #359
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Let the games begin....

So how many years will you guys be under a state of emergency? 6? 10? 15?

Hope the pentagon has their checkbook and fountain pen ready to go. Trump will be using every single kind of power he has as POTUS to dance around the courts on this one. And don't be surprised if he pulls some dirty tricks too, if need be.

Rest assured, he'll get his money. Come hell or high water, he'll get his way with this one... even if it costs him republican support.

He doesn't care because he sees this wall as his 'swan song'.
Wow! I STRONGLY disagree. I don't think Trump cares about this stupid wall. People will go through the motions and little else.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:33 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It is kind of surprising it has taken this long for him to go there, after all inventing emergencies to grab power is what all his favorite leaders do.
I'll believe it when he declares it. And, so what? It will just be another way Trump wastes tax dollars with a meaningless declaration that is immediately challenged in court.

What is the point of a budget approved by Congress if Trump can ignore it and move the money around?

And finally, is anyone looking into which crony Trump wants to give this wall money to and if Trump's getting any laundered kickbacks? Because besides a stick up his ass about wanting Trump's Wall, one has to wonder what in addition to the propaganda is Trump up to?
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