Jackson gay rights leader accused of burning down own home

Graham2001

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All I have to say on this, is that from the sounds of it, the guy did a hell of a lot of good. But if the police are able to prove their case, it's going to cause a lot of damage.


When the home of Nikki Joly burned down in 2017, killing five pets, the FBI investigated it as a hate crime.

After all, the transgender man and gay rights activist had received threats after having a banner year in this conservative town.

...


Authorities later determined the fire was intentionally set, but the person they arrested came as a shock to both supporters and opponents of the gay rights movement. It was the citizen of the year — Nikki Joly.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...-leader-accused-burning-down-home/2816523002/


I will note from the article that unlike the Smollet case, there does not seem to have been any suspicion that this would be the result of the investigation.
 
"Citizen of the Year"


Looking at the story, it seems that the evidence isn't quite on the same level as in the Smollett case, but it is enough for prosecutors to decide that they have enough to charge him.

As to possible motives, I think the story sheds some light.
 
quality of the forensic evidence

A story at Heavy.com indicated that a dog was used to detect gasoline in the house. I would believe gas chromatographic results; a K-9 not so much. This story also casts a modicum of doubt on the motive suggested by the police.
 
Is it just me, or has there been a massive wave of these recently?

Not really some might be getting more publicity, next we will learn that the synogogue hired the shooter and James Harris Jackson was hired by the black comunity to kill the homeless guy with the sword.

And of course the men in this story really got their injuries from rough sex and made up the whole attack story.

https://www.kansas.com/news/nation-world/national/article225018920.html
 
A story at Heavy.com indicated that a dog was used to detect gasoline in the house. I would believe gas chromatographic results; a K-9 not so much. This story also casts a modicum of doubt on the motive suggested by the police.


It does have more than a few holes in it.
 
A story at Heavy.com indicated that a dog was used to detect gasoline in the house. I would believe gas chromatographic results; a K-9 not so much. This story also casts a modicum of doubt on the motive suggested by the police.


The Smollett Effect:
Motive shmotive! Motive not required, at least not one that makes any sense.
 
This whole thing smells like retaliation for his activism. There are just too many holes in the police's assertions. Add to that, it's been well-known for close to a decade that arson investigation is still plagued with junk science.
 
People need to stop approaching reality like they've been handed an uncompleted screenplay and asked to come up with what scene to put near the climax is going to make the story the most dramatic.

Life is boring. People don't have character arcs, individual lives don't have arch-enemies, there is no poetic justice or ironic callbacks, there is no 3 act structure, and things only happen for basic cause and effect, not for symbolic narrative reason.
 
Is this much at least clear: that the fire was caused by arson and not some accidental cause?

Well people have been exicuted for arson that was based on totally false evidence before. See Cameron Todd Willingham.

An arson dog hitting doesn't mean anything, what did the gas chronograph find?
 
why not follow up?

"Canines trained to alert to traces of flammable liquids at a fire scene are useful to identify locations to collect samples for laboratory analysis." Link

I see no reason why further analysis could not be done. As a general rule I would not accept canine evidence without double-blind proficiency testing, owing to the Clever Hans effect. Here is a link with a little more information: "According to CADA, any canine alert should not be considered valid until confirmed through laboratory analysis."
 
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Accelerant detection canines, they're a thing. Who knew ?

Link

Enh. It reads like a brochure for a timeshare.

Having watched a lot of COPS, my impression is that police canines are just as much a scam as they are a real tool. It seems far too easy for the handler to prompt the dog's trigger response whenever "needed".

On COPS, it seems to go something like this:

I know there's drugs in the car, but the driver won't consent to a search. Better call in the K9 unit.

"Oh, look, the dog says there's drugs in the car. That's probable cause, and now I don't need your consent to search."

Of course, COPS only shows the hits, which is good for my justice boner, but probably not as good for actual justice.
 
This definitely sounds like a master criminal:

Joly told them that, on the morning of the fire, he bought $10 of gas at a Marathon station so he could cut his grass. He began to mow, but it got too hot so he stopped with the backyard half done.

He went to work at the church and got a call from Moore at 1:02 p.m., said the report. Moore had forgotten to pack her lunch so asked Joly to bring it to her at work. The couple share one car.

Joly returned home, which was two miles away, went inside for a minute or two, and left, he told police.

The fire was reported by neighbors at 1:16 p.m.

The sequence of events would have made it difficult for anyone but Joly to set the fire, Grove said in the police report.

“The timeline shows a window of less than five minutes for another person to enter the residence, splash gasoline around, ignite the fire and then leave without being scene,” wrote Grove.

And I did find this pretty interesting:

The church officials, Barbara Shelton and Bobby James, when asked by police about a possible motive for the fire, said Joly was disappointed the Jackson Pride Parade and Festival, held five days before the blaze, hadn’t received more attention or protests.

Every heroic story needs villains, and it sounds like Joly couldn't find enough.
 
"Canines trained to alert to traces of flammable liquids at a fire scene are useful to identify locations to collect samples for laboratory analysis." Link

I see no reason why further analysis could not be done. As a general rule I would not accept canine evidence without double-blind proficiency testing, owing to the Clever Hans effect. Here is a link with a little more information: "According to CADA, any canine alert should not be considered valid until confirmed through laboratory analysis."

Yes, K9 units have absurd false positive rates, even though there are ways to mitigate them. They just...don't most of the time.

There are even detection mice and bees to help reduce those problems even when the handlers don't want to or are unwilling to reduce false hits.
 
This whole thing smells like retaliation for his activism. There are just too many holes in the police's assertions. Add to that, it's been well-known for close to a decade that arson investigation is still plagued with junk science.
How does the junk science factor into this particular investigation?

The testimony puts a pretty tight time box on the start of the fire.

Are you saying arson, but junk science could be implicating the wrong person?

Or are you saying it could be accidental, but junk science is making the cops think arson?
 
There might have been a miscommunication

"Police said that two people who worked with Joly suggested he was frustrated that attention to gay rights had died down, especially after a gay rights parade a few days before the fire. But Barbara Shelton, one of the people who reportedly told police this, told The Detroit News that this wasn’t exactly what she had told police. “Never heard Nikki comment in any fashion about anything like that,” Shelton said." This paragraph comes from the Heavy.com story to which I linked above in a previous comment.

"Police initially suspected Robert Tulloch, a local man who had objected to the city approving the display of a rainbow flag a local park during the pride festival. Tulloch had written to the city manager and city council in opposition, telling them that allowing the flag to be flown, “is an in your face declaration of war and will be met with a violent response.”

Tulloch, however, was making a deposit at a local bank at the time of the fire." link How was the time of the fire established?
 
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"Police said that two people who worked with Joly suggested he was frustrated that attention to gay rights had died down, especially after a gay rights parade a few days before the fire. But Barbara Shelton, one of the people who reportedly told police this, told The Detroit News that this wasn’t exactly what she had told police. “Never heard Nikki comment in any fashion about anything like that,” Shelton said." This paragraph comes from the Heavy.com story to which I linked above in a previous comment.

"Police initially suspected Robert Tulloch, a local man who had objected to the city approving the display of a rainbow flag a local park during the pride festival. Tulloch had written to the city manager and city council in opposition, telling them that allowing the flag to be flown, “is an in your face declaration of war and will be met with a violent response.”

Tulloch, however, was making a deposit at a local bank at the time of the fire." link How was the time of the fire established?
Yeah, but what kind of miscommunication?

"That isn't what I said," versus

"That's what I said, but that isn't what I meant," versus

"That's what I said, but I should have kept my mouth shut, so let's say I said something else instead."
 
unequivocal denial

Theprestige,

“'Never heard Nikki comment in any fashion about anything like that,' Shelton said." Your first alternative is pretty close IMO. I might have been overly polite to suggest miscommunication on the part of the police. Maybe the title of my comment should have been "they made stuff up."
 
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Enh. It reads like a brochure for a timeshare.

Having watched a lot of COPS, my impression is that police canines are just as much a scam as they are a real tool. It seems far too easy for the handler to prompt the dog's trigger response whenever "needed".

On COPS, it seems to go something like this:

I know there's drugs in the car, but the driver won't consent to a search. Better call in the K9 unit.

"Oh, look, the dog says there's drugs in the car. That's probable cause, and now I don't need your consent to search."

Of course, COPS only shows the hits, which is good for my justice boner, but probably not as good for actual justice.

Yes, it does have that easy to read point form type of presentation but the important part is where they say they back up the dog's positives with laboratory testing.

20 years ago the house next to me was burned out. There was an arsonist running around one who started with dumpsters, moved on to garages then, vacant houses and had apparently started on houses that looked like they were in disrepair.

There were people living in the house, luckily they weren't home at the time of the fire and if the roar of the fire hadn't woken me up, we would have been burned out too as there was only 20 feet between the houses and I managed to get a garden hose on our house for the 8 minutes it took for the fire department to arrive.

Cool story bro ?

Reason I telling it is because, the following day the fire investigator showed up, went right to the spot where the fire started, brought out this little machine and detected hydrocarbons. It was interesting because under the rubble that was previously the sundeck above the spot, there was the remains of an old sofa one that most likely had a synthetic covering.

The cops and fire department knew who they guy was, they just couldn't prove anything. Yes, they videoed everyone standing around watching the fires burn and they even identified a person of interest by doing that but that guy's story involved him being unemployed, having a police scanner on his bicycle and going to fire scenes "out of interest"

Dude never used accelerate, always made fires with materials on hand and justified having a lighter by flashing the pack of cigarettes he kept on him and the fire investigator stated that an old dry sofa and the empty cardboard boxes under the sundeck would be an excellent place to start a fire and the speed with which the fire tore through all three stories of the house was typical.

Point is, of course, there's always laboratory analysis after the dog and in this case, unlike COPs, the evidence only points towards a crime having been committed, not who might have committed it.

Were the clothes that Joly was wearing, the ones that showed traces of gasoline, the same ones he wore to mow the lawn ? Seems to me that if they were then there's be an explanation for the presence of an accelerant however if he changed his clothes before going in to do activist work, and it's those new clothes that tested positive, then it's rather suspicious.

Somebody burned two dogs and three cats alive, just think of what that must have sounded like and asking me to believe that there was a strange suspicious person in the house while Joly was there with two German Shepards is a bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.
 
This definitely sounds like a master criminal:

“The timeline shows a window of less than five minutes for another person to enter the residence, splash gasoline around, ignite the fire and then leave without being scene,” wrote Grove.


Sounds like more than enough time to drive by and chuck a molotov cocktail through a window.
 
Somebody burned two dogs and three cats alive, just think of what that must have sounded like and asking me to believe that there was a strange suspicious person in the house while Joly was there with two German Shepards is a bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

That is an interesting point. A classic "dog not barking" sort of clue (didn't Sherlock Holmes solve a crime that way?).

Anyway, if someone was in the house who wasn't supposed to be there, did the dogs not bark?

Not saying this necessarily proves anything, just something to consider.
 
That is an interesting point. A classic "dog not barking" sort of clue (didn't Sherlock Holmes solve a crime that way?).

Anyway, if someone was in the house who wasn't supposed to be there, did the dogs not bark?

Not saying this necessarily proves anything, just something to consider.

There's a lot to consider like this sentence for the article in the OP.

"He didn’t admit setting the fire and didn’t deny it, either."

Didn't deny it ? Like WTF ?
 
Facebook comment from a friend

One of Nikki's friends Terri McKinnon wrote at Facebook, "I was there that day. In fact, I happen to have been in a messenger conversation with Nikki all that morning. And Nikki was in a hurry because he was on his way to meet me and my family at the fair once he dropped off Chris’ lunch. This is why we were the first ones to join Nikki at his house when we heard about the fire. We were the ones who stayed with them. We were the ones that went with them to take their precious fur children to the vet after. I know how they grieved. If any of you have believed the crap in the media about this, don’t bother to comment. I stand by Nikki and Chris and what has happened and continues to happen is a complete travesty.”

I don't have a strong opinion yet on innocence or guilt, but I might be swayed one way or the other if I knew how the time of 1:16 had been determined.
 
That is an interesting point. A classic "dog not barking" sort of clue (didn't Sherlock Holmes solve a crime that way?).

Anyway, if someone was in the house who wasn't supposed to be there, did the dogs not bark?

Not saying this necessarily proves anything, just something to consider.

Depends on the dog and the person. I can approach most strange dogs with them not barking, even if they often bark at strangers. I like dogs, and they know it, I think. Then again, I'm not about to burn them alive. That puts a damper on the relationship, I hear.
 

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