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Old 14th March 2019, 05:16 PM   #41
rockinkt
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
New York Times has a headline saying that Santa Anita will be banning drugs and whips. I haven't read the article.
That's fine for the fans - but what about the problem with horse deaths?
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:22 PM   #42
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:34 PM   #43
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Reports now that today at Santa Anita a horse doing a workout broke both front legs.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:28 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Reports now that today at Santa Anita a horse doing a workout broke both front legs.
Appears to be true: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...rack/39202209/

That really would tend to indicate the track has some problem nobody's identified.

I wonder what the death rate on turf v dirt is. I'll try to find some data.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I wonder what the death rate on turf v dirt is. I'll try to find some data.
I suspect turf has a lower break-down rate. Then again, turf moves to dirt (in NA, at least) when conditions are not that good.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
I suspect turf has a lower break-down rate. Then again, turf moves to dirt (in NA, at least) when conditions are not that good.
You just won a chocolate fish - dirt is indeed worse than turf, but both are inferior to synthetic for safety.

10 years old, but I doubt much has changed: https://aaep.org/sites/default/files...0110000405.pdf
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I don't see anything in the way of cruelty involved in the sport. For starters, the horse weighs roughly 10 times as much as the jockey, so if it wants to, it can throw him/her off and kick them to death. They're also a lot smarter than people give them credit for and love the competition. (well, the good ones do, anyway)

Racing worldwide has very strict rules about being hit with the whip, or jigger use, and 101 other things that might happen under the umbrella of cruelty.

Compared to farming of any kind, horse racing is pretty mild. Sure, there are bad eggs, but there are bad eggs everywhere. Horse people generally have an extreme love of horses and would rather cut their arm off than hurt one.



Each to their own.

I imagine the death rate is higher among jockeys, because if you get hit by a 500 kg horse, it's going to do a more damage than even Foreman, but I don't see many punch-drunk jockeys.

That's cruel - condemning a person to a life of brain damage sanctioned by the sport. (As you know, I love boxing as you do, but I wouldn't call it "better" than racing.)
Don't get me wrong, you won't find me petitioning against it or anything, I just don't enjoy it. It seems wrong to me, but that's just me.

I'm not a vegetarian or anything, I just don't like to see animals suffering, but with that being said, some race horses are very well taken care of, obviously. There's been 11 horse deaths since the year 2000 at the Grand National here in the UK, which isn't that many when you consider it, but it's still a bit more than I'd like to know about. I read that there's about one death per every 250 races, but I don't know if that's just here in the UK or worldwide. Between 2010 and 2017, four horses were killed at the National, and one at 2018's race. That seems quite unnecessary to me.

I think, for me, boxing gets a pass, as boxers sign up for the job and know the problems that can arise, whereas horses don't get that option. On the face of it, it's not a major issue, but it's just something I don't feel right about watching and thus I don't.

I'm also not mad about eating horse meat, I just wish those sneaky sods had told me about it. It's like the time I realized that the ham in Muslim takeaways was actually bloody turkey.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
New York Times has a headline saying that Santa Anita will be banning drugs and whips. I haven't read the article.
Horses are pretty hardcore. They've got massive penises, they love whips and they take ketamine like champs.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:20 AM   #49
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At least these racehorses suffered and died for a noble cause.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
At least these racehorses suffered and died for a noble cause.
To carry miniature Irish blokes to the finish line. To be fair, Irish blokes are renowned for racing towards lines, cocaine use in Ireland is bloody rampant so it is!
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:50 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Between 2010 and 2017, four horses were killed at the National, and one at 2018's race.
The only surprise is that a lot more don't die doing it.

The GN course at Aintree is universally described in the racing industry as a horse killer. Solid jumps, poor landing places, and jump points angled downwards all add together to create the perfect way to try to kill your horse. When you factor in a gigantic field and lots of semi-professional and amateur riders, you might as well string barbed wire over the jumps.

Ever wonder why the really good racehorses don't go into the GN? That's why - you're taking a huge chance on your horse not coming home.

I've never understood the attraction of the GN - it's a joke, and a very bad one at that.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:10 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The only surprise is that a lot more don't die doing it.

The GN course at Aintree is universally described in the racing industry as a horse killer. Solid jumps, poor landing places, and jump points angled downwards all add together to create the perfect way to try to kill your horse. When you factor in a gigantic field and lots of semi-professional and amateur riders, you might as well string barbed wire over the jumps.

Ever wonder why the really good racehorses don't go into the GN? That's why - you're taking a huge chance on your horse not coming home.

I've never understood the attraction of the GN - it's a joke, and a very bad one at that.
It's been criticized over the years for its dangerous jumps, etc, and I think they were made to alter some of the course recently, though I don't know much about it.

I worked at the national once, and it made me dislike the event even more. Ladies Day is a mess, I can tell you. After a few glasses of bubbly, they're not ladies anymore!
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:46 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
....There's been 11 horse deaths since the year 2000 at the Grand National here in the UK, which isn't that many when you consider it, but it's still a bit more than I'd like to know about. I read that there's about one death per every 250 races, but I don't know if that's just here in the UK or worldwide. Between 2010 and 2017, four horses were killed at the National, and one at 2018's race. That seems quite unnecessary to me.

......
Do those English stats include deaths in training? Do any?
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:01 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You just won a chocolate fish - dirt is indeed worse than turf, but both are inferior to synthetic for safety.

10 years old, but I doubt much has changed: https://aaep.org/sites/default/files...0110000405.pdf
Thanks. I did not know that.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Do those English stats include deaths in training? Do any?
As far as I know, they're just the stats regarding horses that died either during or after the race itself.
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:23 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Do those English stats include deaths in training? Do any?
No, none of them will, unless the training was being done on racetrack.

Some of our trainers still work their horses exclusively on farms and it just gets thrown in a ditch. There's some paperwork submitted if the horse has been named, but otherwise it's just a blank spot and nobody takes any notice.

As I said before, the vast majority of racehorses that die are sent to the petfood factory for being no good at running.
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Old 18th March 2019, 12:31 PM   #57
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My dad was a huge horse racing fan. We went to the races in Mexico almost every weekend. And almost every weekend, one or two horses would collapse and be shot behind a screen, then carted off. They were discreet about it but it happens quite frequently in my experience. Obviously, something must be up at Santa Anita because 20 in a season sounds a bit much. My dad always attributed the frequency of horse deaths to the fact that in Mexico, there werenít very well enforced regulations about the drugs you could give horses and thus, they were run much harder than they were supposed to in hot conditions which caused problems with dehydration. They would stumble and break legs as a result.
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Old 18th March 2019, 04:29 PM   #58
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That's possibly correct, because it's still fairly rare to see a horse put down on track.

I was at a meeting in Rotorua during the 1970s when a horse broke a leg about 100m short of the post, right in front of the main stand.

No worry about screens in those days, they just up and hit it with the pole-axe.

Some kids got pretty upset about that, which is when they figured screens might be a good thing.
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Old 19th March 2019, 05:11 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
My dad was a huge horse racing fan. We went to the races in Mexico almost every weekend. And almost every weekend, one or two horses would collapse and be shot behind a screen, then carted off. They were discreet about it but it happens quite frequently in my experience. Obviously, something must be up at Santa Anita because 20 in a season sounds a bit much. My dad always attributed the frequency of horse deaths to the fact that in Mexico, there werenít very well enforced regulations about the drugs you could give horses and thus, they were run much harder than they were supposed to in hot conditions which caused problems with dehydration. They would stumble and break legs as a result.
Clenbuterol is something they used in horses and cows up in Mexico, I believe, as there was a pretty widespread issue with Mexican athletes popping dirty due to tainted meat. It's a fat-burning, muscle-building aide, IIRC.
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