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Old 20th March 2019, 07:32 AM   #121
catsmate
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
EU has two choices: allow an extension until the end of June, or allow a long extension of over a year, to allow for a general election or a referendum (or both). It became clear yesterday the deal can not be decided upon again in the House of Commons and Parliament stated it doesn't want a no deal.

The only remaining options are:

1. renegotiating the deal enough to be materially different, this option exists only in theory as EU already ruled that out plus there isn't enough time
2. referendum for the deal, this requires an extension of about a year at least
3. a new general election, this too would require an extension of at least one year

A sensible approach for the EU would be to offer an extension of four years. A delay this long ensures sufficient time to run a referendum if UK wants one, it also ensures at least one general election will be held in the meantime so the deal can be rerun through the parliament and hopefully pass and even after all that it still leaves enough time to renegotiate the deal entirely. It also allows UK to contest the European Elections and have their MEPs run the full term (or thereabout), limiting any problems with legality and representation.

It is possible to renegotiate the deal, if UK lets go of some self-imposed red lines. Expect any new deal to be notably worse for the UK than this one, but a different deal may still be possible - it just turns the UK into a colony of the EU, rather than a priviledged member.

If Brexit is extended by several years I expect there will be none in the end.

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Just develop some courage and drop the lunacy.
BTW the UK's EP seats have been reallocated.
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Old 20th March 2019, 07:33 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The UK could negotiate the rules on how to leave the EU within the EU parliamentary framework for the next five years.
And then it absolutely could apply to leave again, under the new rules.

At this point, nothing else makes sense.
Not making any sense is what got us into this situation surely it will be what gets us out of it!!!
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:09 AM   #123
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BREXIT: "The LEAVE leaflet must win prize for MOST DISHONEST leaflet ever" - Baroness Quin

Hear, hear.
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:14 AM   #124
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not making any sense is what got us into this situation surely it will be what gets us out of it!!!
In the negotiations, the UK was on the other side.
As a member, it could set a better framework.
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:32 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I guess this was what you were after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLPjSST3dI

The quote that followed was just as good. From Hansard:
Quote:
It is true, as the Minister often tells us, that the referendum turnout was impressive, but the result was close and the amount of misinformation—on both sides—was shocking. I recently looked again at the main leave leaflet, which must surely win the prize for the most dishonest leaflet ever issued during a public vote. It struck me that, despite it having been claimed ever since that we voted against being part of the single market, in this main leave leaflet there was not one mention of the single market.
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:33 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
You mean a serif font?
Serifs and terminators are the preferred terms.
I think you need to adjust windage on your sarcasm detector. Try three clicks left, and one up.

;D
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:52 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Well, the British yet again leads the world and provides a great example to others; in how not to try and wind the clock back and live in the past, whilst shooting ones self in the foot.
Whilst proclaiming that being shot in the foot is exactly what half of the population voted for so we would be wrong not to institute compulsory foot shooting for every man, woman and child!
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:55 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Jesus. May has just said that the House of Commons has rejected no-deal, Labour's deal and a customs union, so they're all definitely off the table, and then gone on to ask MP's to back her deal. She has not the slightest vestige of either consistency or self-awareness.



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I know I'm like a broken record player, but she is totally consistent if you consider what she is interested in being consistent about, I. E. being PM.
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:55 AM   #129
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And France has said they will veto the extension...
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Old 20th March 2019, 08:56 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You only get one shot at a50.
If it is withdrawn we can't re-apply.
Of course we can. There is nothing in the treaty that legally stops a country unilaterally invoking article 50 and revoking it prior to the exit date.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:01 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How lateer is 'later'?

If there weren't restrictions what would stop a50 being used as a constant negotiating tool or for political posturing?
What you often find is that people would have discussed how such an article would be reasonably enacted, I mean which country would enact the article without knowing the extreme consequences and having a plan in place for leaving? No country would be so stupid or niave?
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:19 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And France has said they will veto the extension...
And the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, has stated that the EU will only grant a short extension if MP's pass a Brexit deal.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:27 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
And the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, has stated that the EU will only grant a short extension if MP's pass a Brexit deal.
Christ! He wants the Commons to pass the same deal that’s been rejected. Umm...how?
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:29 AM   #134
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So, according to Robert Peston's sources, May will give a statement to the nation tonight. She is currently hosting opposition leaders at No. 10. And given her statement at PMQ's earlier today, that she won't be the PM who takes an extension past June 30, it's no wonder rumours of either a Tory party leadership contest, if not an outright general election, are beginning warming up.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:29 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Christ! He wants the Commons to pass the same deal that’s been rejected. Umm...how?
Bribing MPs with the country's money. (That we were told didn't exist)
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Christ! He wants the Commons to pass the same deal that’s been rejected. Umm...how?
It’s the EU, getting people to vote again until they give the right answer is standard practice.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Christ! He wants the Commons to pass the same deal that’s been rejected. Umm...how?
Presumably he's just laying out the options. Pass a brexit deal next week and you get a short extension, because if you don't, then it's either a long extension or a no-deal brexit.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:32 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And France has said they will veto the extension...
Good for them. Alas it's not quite that clear cut. Macron will veto a extension without purpose.
However Tusk has stated that if there is a "positive vote" in the the HoC next week "we can finalise and formalise the decision on extension in the written procedure".

So there are three options:
1. The Maybot's deal - rejected twice and not open for a third vote
2. Crash and burn.
3. Abandon the insanity.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:33 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If there weren't restrictions what would stop a50 being used as a constant negotiating tool or for political posturing?
Other countries are governed by functioning adults. In general.
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:39 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
And the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, has stated that the EU will only grant a short extension if MP's pass a Brexit deal.

“Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. "That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed. "It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.” - Joseph Heller
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Old 20th March 2019, 09:53 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Presumably he's just laying out the options. Pass a brexit deal next week and you get a short extension, because if you don't, then it's either a long extension or a no-deal brexit.
I don’t see any offer of a long extension from him. The suggestion of a short extension doesn’t look like an inclusive set of options, but an exclusive one. In other words: it’s the deal we offered you or no deal.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:14 AM   #142
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I expect the speaker has now really gone beyond the pale and we will see him arrested and detained, he's said the house can sit on Saturday and Sunday!
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:39 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don’t see any offer of a long extension from him. The suggestion of a short extension doesn’t look like an inclusive set of options, but an exclusive one. In other words: it’s the deal we offered you or no deal.
Nobody asked them for a longer deal though. A short extension is all that was requested.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:55 AM   #144
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:35 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Seconded.
Thirded
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:40 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Bribing MPs with the country's money. (That we were told didn't exist)
It doesn't exist for trivial fripperies like paying Nurse's a decent salary, money will be found for vital projects like maintaining May's death grip on the key to number 10.
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:54 AM   #147
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There might be light collateral damage and some good may be thrown out with the bad, but not a one of these MPs should be re-elected. Not one. Clear the ******* house and have a new lot.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Other countries are governed by functioning adults. In general.
Or at least adult criminals...
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:37 PM   #149
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Allegedly Corbyn walked out of the opposition leaders' meeting with the PM, as the Independent Group was represented, and he doesn't consider them to be part of the opposition.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:38 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Allegedly Corbyn walked out of the opposition leaders' meeting with the PM, as the Independent Group was represented, and he doesn't consider them to be part of the opposition.

******* children.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:40 PM   #151
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I stand corrected, it was due to them not being a proper party and according to a Labour spokesperson, it wasn't what had been agreed upon before the meeting started.

May is due to give a statement to the nation in half an hours time, should be fun.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:46 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
I stand corrected, it was due to them not being a proper party and according to a Labour spokesperson, it wasn't what had been agreed upon before the meeting started.

May is due to give a statement to the nation in half an hours time, should be fun.

Be still my beating heart...
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:32 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
<snip>

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
To keep it in the spirit of Parliament it would be sans serif ... but with all those little squiggles and tails on the ends of the letters.

You mean a serif font?
Serifs and terminators are the preferred terms.

Whoosh.

(I didn't think that post was so obscure as to need a sarcasm smiley, but I can see I was wrong.)
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:45 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
There might be light collateral damage and some good may be thrown out with the bad, but not a one of these MPs should be re-elected. Not one. Clear the ******* house and have a new lot.
As usual on this forum, you are blaming members of the British parliament, or Theresa May. But much of the current trouble and worries is caused by the (much disliked by the DUP) Irish backstop, imposed by the European Union, which is an attempt to break up and humiliate, and also perhaps "punish" the UK for wanting to exit the Union, and which has always been found unacceptable by the House of Commons (another part of the trouble has also been caused by the people who voted "Leave" in the 2016 referendum, without perhaps realizing all the consequences).

The EU did, however, make recently some concessions on the backstop. This was not overlooked, and probably led to an improvement in the last "meaningful vote" on the withdrawal deal in the Commons: 391 votes against on March 12 versus 432 votes against on January 15. If the EU decided to drop the backstop (or to soften it significantly), I presume Bercow would agree to a third meaningful vote, and many of the current problems would be suddenly solved. It is in the interest of the EU, if it wants to have a long life itself, to be respectful to all its members, past and present (for example, Hungary). The world will not forget those who have been dumb and arrogant.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:53 PM   #155
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I'm absolutely baffled. May is going for the 'Are you really, really, REALLY sure you won't back my deal?' route, despite the Commons having rejected it twice already.

And I thought I was hard of hearing, evidently May must have it even worse than me!
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:53 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
As usual on this forum, you are blaming members of the British parliament, or Theresa May.The
<much snippage of distortions, half-truths, outright lies and general gibberings>
Yes. Because as usual they're the ones causing the problems with their usual mix of stupidity, veniality, greed sense of entitlement and utter incompetence
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:54 PM   #157
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Am I the only one thinking that she asked for a very narrowly windowed extension knowing full well it would be rejected. Now she can claim "I asked for an extension."
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:17 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
As usual on this forum, you are blaming members of the British parliament, or Theresa May. But much of the current trouble and worries is caused by the (much disliked by the DUP) Irish backstop, imposed by the European Union,.
You mean 'proposed by the UK'?
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:25 PM   #159
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Quote:
(much disliked by the DUP)
.. but not by the constituents they're meant to represent. But eh, who's counting..
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:36 PM   #160
This is The End
 
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The YT link for anyone who needs it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zC6c9gZ-is
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